Hi guys I just joined today. I have loved rodents my whole life as they
have to be the most underappreciated animals on earth. I had always
thought I was alone in my passion for the poor darlings but now I
realize there are others out there too! I currently only have one
mouse, a hairless, who was given to me by a pet shop after being
mutilated by his bully hair-clad siblings. No one expected him to live
but I have raised him to full health and he's currently 6-months old.
It has insired me to start some sort of a rodent orphanage, to take in
any unwanted rodents in the area. Does anyone have any tips on how to
get the word out or do this?

Thanks,
Brittany

I just joined today! I'm a vet nursing student who loves my three pet
rats. they're 6 weeks, all males and have a terrific temperament.

Hi all!  Well I'm a new member that was recruited through an animal
welfare group (thanks for the invite & happy to join!!).

My field is rabbits & I have rescued 17 over the last few years.  I
run a website - www.boingonline.com which advises on diet, desexing,
indoor housing, litter training & all sorts of other stuff to do
with responsible rabbit care.  I also write a free monthly rabbit
newsletter called The Bunologist which provides articles and stories
from all over Australia.  Please feel free to join through my
website (wherever in the world you live!) as we would love to build
up our readership & help more bunnies!  The stories are really
entertaining & you can submit & participate if you have a story to
share!

I also run another yahoo group called Rescue Rabbit Australia -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rescuerabbitaustralia/ where we try &
tackle some of the not so nice issues facing rabbits and how we can
try to make a difference.  If you also want to read any of our
issues of The Bunologist, you can find them under "files" in the
rescue rabbit group.

I also have a petition that's currently making the rounds about the
$30,000 fine faced by many people in Queensland who have pet
rabbits.  I'm proposing that the fine is removed for responsible
people who have desexed, vaccinated & registered rabbits.  There are
many people who move between states and cannot take their beloved
house rabbits with them (or either they do & have to live in fear of
the councils).  If you would like to sign our petition, please
visit: http://www.petitiononline.com/bunny/petition.html

Great to be here, thanks for the invite & I look forward to chatting
with you all!

Karen
www.boingonline.com

Hello all!
I have been working hard emailing invites to Animal Welfare groups
based in Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Canada and America.
It'd be lovely to have more members as this creates richer resources
for all of us.
   I am a little concerned that this club has become very 'breeder'
orientated, and are seeking to even the balance.
At the same time, all people who have an interest in Rabbits, Hares,
and rodents of any kind are welcome here - as this is how we learn,
by shareing our experiences and offering friendly advice.

I emailed the invites with the following message attached:
Please consider joining this online rabbit and rodent welfare and
pet care group. I am concerned that it is too 'breeder' orientated,
and would like to encourage members on the alternatives. We are also
looking for fresh facts and information for members.
Thank you,
Rebekah Blackwolf-Mitchell
club founder,


On a final note, I'd like to encourage each member to invite at
least two others to this club, to try an boost numbers.
It also puts our club at a better advantage on the Yahoo Groups
search list - we get higher up on it - the more members we get.

But most importantly, members add richness to our information files..

Rat lovers, ever met a person who just can't help make a few rat
sack jokes? Well this time, listen to them a little. Most arn't
right in the head, and neither is this next person/s. What you hear
could help the police....

Tuesday August 8, 06:49 PM
Rat poison found in Brisbane playground
Parents across Brisbane awoke to a nightmare on Tuesday after rat
poison was planted in a children's playground and a threat was made
to leave baits in school grounds.

Green pellets, later confirmed as Ratsak, were found at the Kidspace
playground in the northside suburb of Chermside.

  Police made the discovery after a man in the nearby suburb of
Nundah checked his fuse box when the power went out about 8pm (AEST)
on Monday.

A note on the fuse box said the Chermside playground had been
poisoned and challenged police to find similar baits left at three
unidentified Brisbane schools.

The discovery sparked a mammoth search of the grounds of more than
750 schools in the greater Brisbane area from Redcliffe in the north
to Logan in the south.

No further pellets were found but police said late Tuesday the
person who wrote the note had probably left a previous note in
Chermside two days earlier.

The officer in charge of the operation, Detective Chief
Superintendent Paul Wilson, said a similar note had been found by a
woman at her unit block when she went to check on her electrical box
after a similar power cut.

But the woman only came forward when she heard media coverage of the
search and of the power cut at the Nundah units.

Police appealed for any residents of northside Brisbane who had
found similar writings to contact them.

"We know there is graffiti around from time to time but this is
particularly threatening," Supt Wilson said.

The handwriting on the two notes appeared to be similar but the
content of the note at Chermside was different, he said.

"It's another line of inquiry we are currently exploring in relation
to our inquiries into persons of interest in this matter," he said.

Anyone found and convicted of the crime could face a prison sentence
of up to seven years, he said.

More than 50 officers worked on the case at a special incident room
set up in the Boondall police station, fielding calls from more than
700 frantic parents and members of the public between 7am and 10am
(AEST).

Premier Peter Beattie said the wanted person had caused a lot of
unnecessary distress.

"Frankly I just think this behaviour is right off any sort of limits
and you should never expose children to risk, particularly in
environments where they expect to be safe," he said.

hey guys i just got a new little boy apparently hes  8 weeks and he is the one
being the bully
to my older mouse i  keep encouraging rey to show him whos boss but hes being a
wuss the
new one is realy friendly and loves being handled and hes from a pet shop he was
separeated
from the girls so he couldnt get them preg .
>

--- In AMRIS_rodents_and_rabbits@..., "Rebekah
Blackwolf-Mitchell"
<lady_azurewolf@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello, Erin.
>   Sorry to hear that you have to part with your little babies.
> What area are you in? This can help people decide if they can collect
> your babies or not.
>   If an emergency happens and you need to be rid of them fast, I will
> be happy to take them.
> I am in Blackburn South Victoria.
>
> I will also try and direct enquiries your way, ie: into this club.
> Good luck,
> Rebekah.
>

LOL, omg, I can't believe I didn't say where i was. I went searching for a
brisbane group
and didn't think that I was in a whole of Australia one.

I'm on the Gold Coast in Queensland, and thanks Rebekah for the offer, but it
seems that
i'm a bit far away from you. I'm happy to come drop my babies off to anyone up
to two
hours away from me also.

Thanks Guys

Hello, Erin.
   Sorry to hear that you have to part with your little babies.
What area are you in? This can help people decide if they can collect
your babies or not.
   If an emergency happens and you need to be rid of them fast, I will
be happy to take them.
I am in Blackburn South Victoria.

I will also try and direct enquiries your way, ie: into this club.
Good luck,
Rebekah.

After trying to look after 10 rats for a year I've finally decided that i can't.
I "inherited" the
rats after my ex thought it was a great idea to breed his two rats and then pawn
them off
on me because he never cleaned or fed them.

I'm moving house very soon too so it makes it very difficult to find room for
them all, I
have built them a "groto" style home, which is made from a large shelf, but it's
still too
small for them all.

I will keep either my two boys, or three of my girls, depending on peoples
adoption
preferences. OK
All my rats are the same age, born Feb 15th 2005, and they all have varying
stages of the
respitory disease, but none are unhealthy. They are all friendly but some of the
girls are a
bit skidish.

There are two boys:
Gir - dark brown hooded
Satan II - caramel hooded

Girls:
Ella - brown hooded
Mary Jane - brown hooded
Asuka - brown hooded
Lilith - brown hooded
Demonia - dark brown broken hooded
Delirium - Cream hooded, red eyes
Lucy - cream hooded, red eyes

I'd prefer to pair them off to people for obvious reasons, Lucy and Asuka used
to live else
where together, but the girl wasnt looking after them so i got them back, I
really want to
find them good homes as I raised them from birth.

I'm also willing to get rid of my "grotto" style cage too as i won't be needing
it so if anyone
wants to take at least four girls they are welcome to it. Other wise if I still
have it when i've
found my girls new homes i'll just sell it for a few dollars.

Thanks! - Erin

Try this sight, especially if you're from Canada - you'll really enjoy
it. It's full of rodent lovers and plenty of fellowship and good
honest advice for owners of rats and other rodents.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canada-Rat-Adoption

I'm sorry if any posting in this club has upset your daughter. It
sounds to me that the pet shop she was dealing with dose the right
thing, and each rat is assured a loving home. But if you are offended
by the story about the sick pet shop rat, well, it's best you do not
continue membership because as from my experience in animal welfare
and 13 years rehousing these animals - have I got some pet shop horror
stories for you...but..ignorance is bliss.
While there are some very well run, genuine pet shops out there there
are some very cruel ones too - Like the pet shop in Kilsyth who kills
their excess rats and guinea pigs by putting them in plastic bags and
bashing them on a bench top. I have mobile phone cammera footage of
it!!!
If members cannot express their cruelty concerns inside this club,
then this club would be failing to assist in one of the most important
roles it was founded for ...to try and improve the status of the
rat..and to allow networking and fellowship between all of us who love
and adore these creatures.
thanks,
Rebekah Blackwolf-Mitchell

A vet has been recommended to me by Tanya, manager of Pets Paradise in
Eastland Shopping Centre, Ringwood, Victoria.


This vet is named Julie and she works at The Mt Evelyn Veterinary
Hospital. Phone: 03 9736 3088

....normally, I wouldn't bother but you have managed to upset my
daughter.
We know our pet shop, my daughter has some 11 much loved pets[cat,
dog, bird, g.pig, turtle and her rats]  and the waiting list for her
rats ensures the owner receives a premium while he notifies her of
each new owner.
Every one of those pets is handled daily and much loved.
She has bred three litters from three different does.
We live in the country and are surrounded by effective and safe
animal management, the breeding program was my daughter's entry to
that world.
I will seek further advice on the four weeks [they spend the last
week on dry food and are handled by Jamie and her school friends] it
was a recommendation made to us by breeders at the university where I
work. My daughter would delighted to keep them longer.
The missing fur has our vet stumped [she has tea at our place once a
week]- I joined here for information - it seems to be in short
supply -we will not be pursuing our membership.

Dr. James Montgomery

Bathurst, NSW.

Lets plan next Monday evening the first of August at 7.oopm Australian
time, to open the chat room and get some mememers together for a live
chat. Thats Monday 1st/8th/2006 at 7.oopm Eastern Standard Time.

Here's just a little section of a poam by Isaac Solomon from The Rat
Fan Club of America's June 2006 newsletter..

Ode To Papa Rat - by Isaac Solomon

"So God sent down his angels
And they gave that rat a kiss
And guided him into paradise
To enjoy eternal bliss."

Quite lovely I think.

The Rat Fan Club newsletter features poetry on rats regularly,
To read more or to enquire contact:

Debbie Ducommun at: ratlady@...
or visit: http://www.ratfanclub.org

Debbie has vast knowledge on rat health issues and has published
many artcles and books on health, care and diet for rats.

K's Kongs.

AMRIS currently uses and recommends Pet One Mouse and Rat Drinking
Bottles.  Designed in Australia by Aqua One.

Made by: Kong's Australia Pty Ltd.
48 Williamson Rd Ingleburn 2565 New South Wales Australia.

Kong's New Zealand
52 Glenlyon Avenue Greerton Tauranga New Zealand.

We purchased ours from Pets World in Boronia Victoria Australia, who
supply a wide range of rat and mouse care products.

Not at all. Our dog is now 11 and speyed, so breeding her again won't be an
option, but we do have to puppies in the house now for her to play with. She
swings between loving them and hating them! She's a little old for their games,
me thinks.

I recently purchased a little rat from a pet store who seemed to be about three
or four weeks. So tiny. She was swaying in the food bowl and meekly snuffling
for scraps (they were fed on rabbit food). I picked her up and she was skeletal.
I think she would have died in a day. I know it's not always the best decision
to support poor pet stores but in this case, my $10 made a lot more difference
to the rat than it would have to the profit margin.

I sat and nursed Snowflake by the heater for a long while and fed her on warm
soy milk and muesli mix. She literally didn't stop eating for the whole day. It
was touch and go for a while there, but now she's about 8 weeks and I cannot
belive the difference. She's a happy, bruxing little rattie who is so
affectionate and active. She loves to popcorn around the cage. I got her a same
age companion a couple of weeks ago and they spend most of the day playing.

Anyway. That's my experience with underage pet store rats.

That's quite sad about your mouse.

Have a great day too.

Naomi.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Katherine Medina
   To: AMRIS_rodents_and_rabbits@...
   Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 9:31 AM
   Subject: Re: AMRIS Rodents & Rabbits Hello Everybody!


   hmmm...i hope you dont mind me responding Naomi ;)..but what i would do with
your dog...is ..if she is still of age...breed her again..and this time..let her
keep a her pus...or at least one pup.....that way..even though she wont forget
her first litter...she will have her baby to raise....


     and for mice and rats..i agree..from a health perspective...they can only be
seperated between six or seven weeks..before that is far too soon...and they
will be sickly..i once got a little mouse who was around 4 weeks...and it died a
few days after i took it home..its stomach just wasnt ready for solid foods...

     i didnt know much about rodents back then..

     well hope you have a Great Day!!

     Kathy :0)


   Naomi <naynaynay@...> wrote:
     Hi there. My name is Naomi. I'm a first time poster, but I've been reading
for a while now.

   I have eight ratties. Three adult girls, three teenage boys and two baby
girls. I felt the need to respond to Jamie &James' email as I was disturbed by
its content.

   To Jamie & James:

   I just wanted to say that I agree with everything Kathy has said. By breeding
this rat over and over and discarding the babies you are teaching your children
that life is cheap and animals are disposable.

   I have never bred rats, but a family member has bred our family dog (not my
choice). After her puppies were taken away she became despondent and depressed.
It took her more than a year to get over it and come out of her shell again.
Even then, she has never been the same since. She went from a happy, carefree
dog to a reclusive, serious animal in one day.

   Today she can be a mix of both. But I would never do that to an animal again.

   I also wanted to say that I believe four weeks is too young for the rats to be
separated. Five weeks or six would be better.

   Further, I just wanted to make a point about supplying pet stores with rats.
When you do this you don't know where the babies will be going or what will
happen to them. People treat rodents like toys a lot of the time. They are not
given the respect they deserve. Some of them will no doubt, go to feed snakes,
as many snakes will only feed on live food.

   If you bring these little babies into the world it is your responsibility to
ensure that they are taken care of and have good lives. There is no way of
ensuring this if you sell them to a pet store.

   Rats do not always make good kids pets. They are pretty fragile and can pretty
much take a kid's finger off. I've had my finger bone broken by a rat.

   I don't want to be offensive, but I find what you are doing objectionable and
I feel as though it needs further thought.

   I hope you decide to reconsider.

   Naomi.


   P.S: I hope your stud buck has company in that cage. Rats are solitary animals
and do not cope well with isolation.

   P.P.S: Pease take your rat to the vet to get his problem cleared up.


     ----- Original Message -----
     From: Katherine Medina
     To: AMRIS_rodents_and_rabbits@...
     Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:52 AM
     Subject: Re: AMRIS Rodents & Rabbits Hello Everybody!



     Hi there!!

       well...i hope i dont dont sound mean..but there are so many rats in
shelters..i dont understand the need to breed the poor things.....

       people just dont seem to understand that animals...like humans..have
feelings...maternal feeling too...

       when i first go a pair of mice..i thought i had bought two girls..but in
fact..one was a male..which was evident when my little girl had a litter of 12
babies...

       and it is a heartless thing to seperate the mother from its babies without
need..to make  a couple of bucks....

       she was so protective of them.... ...whenever i took one away to inspect
for their health..she would come out of her nest...put her little paws up in the
air as if asking me to give her back..an not go back in until i put her
back..then she'd grab her by the skin of her neck and rush back into her little
house with her....it was clear to see that she was crazy about her little ones
and they were crazy about her...

       one of them was so attatched to her mum..she'd be by her side
constantly...each day shed be out looking over her girl..like a tiny lioness
making sure they were safe...

       and when she died a year later... her constant conpanion would squeek
mournfully...she refused to even play with her other sisters who would nudge her
and groom her to try and make her feel better...

       so my perfectly healthy little lady died of a heart attack a day and a
half later after her mum..im sure it was of a broken heart...

       so if i have children one day...i'll be sure to let my kids know that
animals..even rats and mice are not toys....but living..breathing creatures who
also have emotions...thats the kind of thing that would give me "delight"....

       i think its cruel to keep breeding a poor rat and giving away her children
each time..leaving her with her maternal feelings...going through the pain of
childbirth..and then having it torn away..for a few dollars....

       it would never happen in humans...they would never get a woman pregnant
over and over again and take away her child each time .......so then why do it
to a little defenceless animal??...

       just think about that...

       hope i havent offended you in any way...

       Have a Great day

       Kathy :)




     James <OzScrnWriter@...> wrote:
       My daughter Jamie - 8yo - have joined to gain more information about
     successful breeding of rats. Jamie has just midwifed her third litter
     and sold them to our local pet shop [at 4 weeks] where I am delighted
     to say she has a waiting list of her friends from school and Guides.
     Bathurst is becoming a very rat-freindly town with the under 10's!

     Our main sire is approaching 18 months and has developed a loss of fur
     and some redness under his chin - they are kept very clean and he is
     in a separate cage except for mating? However, my daughter also has a
     fancy guinea pig and a cockatiel. I am wondering about mites [we do
     live in Bathurst but it is winter]or whether it's a function of his
     advancing rat years.  I haven't seen him scratching inordinately.

     Any advice gratefully received.

     Jamie & James







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woops..i need to edit that lastone too..i ment let her keep a Pup..not a
pus...ewwwwwwww hehe :P

Katherine Medina <hellowittykitty@...> wrote:  hmmm...i hope you dont
mind me responding Naomi ;)..but what i would do with your dog...is ..if she is
still of age...breed her again..and this time..let her keep a her pus...or at
least one pup.....that way..even though she wont forget her first litter...she
will have her baby to raise....


   and for mice and rats..i agree..from a health perspective...they can only be
seperated between six or seven weeks..before that is far too soon...and they
will be sickly..i once got a little mouse who was around 4 weeks...and it died a
few days after i took it home..its stomach just wasnt ready for solid foods...

   i didnt know much about rodents back then..

   well hope you have a Great Day!!

   Kathy :0)


Naomi <naynaynay@...> wrote:
   Hi there. My name is Naomi. I'm a first time poster, but I've been reading for
a while now.

I have eight ratties. Three adult girls, three teenage boys and two baby girls.
I felt the need to respond to Jamie &James' email as I was disturbed by its
content.

To Jamie & James:

I just wanted to say that I agree with everything Kathy has said. By breeding
this rat over and over and discarding the babies you are teaching your children
that life is cheap and animals are disposable.

I have never bred rats, but a family member has bred our family dog (not my
choice). After her puppies were taken away she became despondent and depressed.
It took her more than a year to get over it and come out of her shell again.
Even then, she has never been the same since. She went from a happy, carefree
dog to a reclusive, serious animal in one day.

Today she can be a mix of both. But I would never do that to an animal again.

I also wanted to say that I believe four weeks is too young for the rats to be
separated. Five weeks or six would be better.

Further, I just wanted to make a point about supplying pet stores with rats.
When you do this you don't know where the babies will be going or what will
happen to them. People treat rodents like toys a lot of the time. They are not
given the respect they deserve. Some of them will no doubt, go to feed snakes,
as many snakes will only feed on live food.

If you bring these little babies into the world it is your responsibility to
ensure that they are taken care of and have good lives. There is no way of
ensuring this if you sell them to a pet store.

Rats do not always make good kids pets. They are pretty fragile and can pretty
much take a kid's finger off. I've had my finger bone broken by a rat.

I don't want to be offensive, but I find what you are doing objectionable and I
feel as though it needs further thought.

I hope you decide to reconsider.

Naomi.


P.S: I hope your stud buck has company in that cage. Rats are solitary animals
and do not cope well with isolation.

P.P.S: Pease take your rat to the vet to get his problem cleared up.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Katherine Medina
   To: AMRIS_rodents_and_rabbits@...
   Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:52 AM
   Subject: Re: AMRIS Rodents & Rabbits Hello Everybody!



   Hi there!!

     well...i hope i dont dont sound mean..but there are so many rats in
shelters..i dont understand the need to breed the poor things.....

     people just dont seem to understand that animals...like humans..have
feelings...maternal feeling too...

     when i first go a pair of mice..i thought i had bought two girls..but in
fact..one was a male..which was evident when my little girl had a litter of 12
babies...

     and it is a heartless thing to seperate the mother from its babies without
need..to make  a couple of bucks....

     she was so protective of them.... ...whenever i took one away to inspect for
their health..she would come out of her nest...put her little paws up in the air
as if asking me to give her back..an not go back in until i put her back..then
she'd grab her by the skin of her neck and rush back into her little house with
her....it was clear to see that she was crazy about her little ones and they
were crazy about her...

     one of them was so attatched to her mum..she'd be by her side
constantly...each day shed be out looking over her girl..like a tiny lioness
making sure they were safe...

     and when she died a year later... her constant conpanion would squeek
mournfully...she refused to even play with her other sisters who would nudge her
and groom her to try and make her feel better...

     so my perfectly healthy little lady died of a heart attack a day and a half
later after her mum..im sure it was of a broken heart...

     so if i have children one day...i'll be sure to let my kids know that
animals..even rats and mice are not toys....but living..breathing creatures who
also have emotions...thats the kind of thing that would give me "delight"....

     i think its cruel to keep breeding a poor rat and giving away her children
each time..leaving her with her maternal feelings...going through the pain of
childbirth..and then having it torn away..for a few dollars....

     it would never happen in humans...they would never get a woman pregnant over
and over again and take away her child each time .......so then why do it to a
little defenceless animal??...

     just think about that...

     hope i havent offended you in any way...

     Have a Great day

     Kathy :)




   James <OzScrnWriter@...> wrote:
     My daughter Jamie - 8yo - have joined to gain more information about
   successful breeding of rats. Jamie has just midwifed her third litter
   and sold them to our local pet shop [at 4 weeks] where I am delighted
   to say she has a waiting list of her friends from school and Guides.
   Bathurst is becoming a very rat-freindly town with the under 10's!

   Our main sire is approaching 18 months and has developed a loss of fur
   and some redness under his chin - they are kept very clean and he is
   in a separate cage except for mating? However, my daughter also has a
   fancy guinea pig and a cockatiel. I am wondering about mites [we do
   live in Bathurst but it is winter]or whether it's a function of his
   advancing rat years.  I haven't seen him scratching inordinately.

   Any advice gratefully received.

   Jamie & James







   Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hmmm...i hope you dont mind me responding Naomi ;)..but what i would do with
your dog...is ..if she is still of age...breed her again..and this time..let her
keep a her pus...or at least one pup.....that way..even though she wont forget
her first litter...she will have her baby to raise....


   and for mice and rats..i agree..from a health perspective...they can only be
seperated between six or seven weeks..before that is far too soon...and they
will be sickly..i once got a little mouse who was around 4 weeks...and it died a
few days after i took it home..its stomach just wasnt ready for solid foods...

   i didnt know much about rodents back then..

   well hope you have a Great Day!!

   Kathy :0)


Naomi <naynaynay@...> wrote:
   Hi there. My name is Naomi. I'm a first time poster, but I've been reading for
a while now.

I have eight ratties. Three adult girls, three teenage boys and two baby girls.
I felt the need to respond to Jamie &James' email as I was disturbed by its
content.

To Jamie & James:

I just wanted to say that I agree with everything Kathy has said. By breeding
this rat over and over and discarding the babies you are teaching your children
that life is cheap and animals are disposable.

I have never bred rats, but a family member has bred our family dog (not my
choice). After her puppies were taken away she became despondent and depressed.
It took her more than a year to get over it and come out of her shell again.
Even then, she has never been the same since. She went from a happy, carefree
dog to a reclusive, serious animal in one day.

Today she can be a mix of both. But I would never do that to an animal again.

I also wanted to say that I believe four weeks is too young for the rats to be
separated. Five weeks or six would be better.

Further, I just wanted to make a point about supplying pet stores with rats.
When you do this you don't know where the babies will be going or what will
happen to them. People treat rodents like toys a lot of the time. They are not
given the respect they deserve. Some of them will no doubt, go to feed snakes,
as many snakes will only feed on live food.

If you bring these little babies into the world it is your responsibility to
ensure that they are taken care of and have good lives. There is no way of
ensuring this if you sell them to a pet store.

Rats do not always make good kids pets. They are pretty fragile and can pretty
much take a kid's finger off. I've had my finger bone broken by a rat.

I don't want to be offensive, but I find what you are doing objectionable and I
feel as though it needs further thought.

I hope you decide to reconsider.

Naomi.


P.S: I hope your stud buck has company in that cage. Rats are solitary animals
and do not cope well with isolation.

P.P.S: Pease take your rat to the vet to get his problem cleared up.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Katherine Medina
   To: AMRIS_rodents_and_rabbits@...
   Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:52 AM
   Subject: Re: AMRIS Rodents & Rabbits Hello Everybody!



   Hi there!!

     well...i hope i dont dont sound mean..but there are so many rats in
shelters..i dont understand the need to breed the poor things.....

     people just dont seem to understand that animals...like humans..have
feelings...maternal feeling too...

     when i first go a pair of mice..i thought i had bought two girls..but in
fact..one was a male..which was evident when my little girl had a litter of 12
babies...

     and it is a heartless thing to seperate the mother from its babies without
need..to make  a couple of bucks....

     she was so protective of them.... ...whenever i took one away to inspect for
their health..she would come out of her nest...put her little paws up in the air
as if asking me to give her back..an not go back in until i put her back..then
she'd grab her by the skin of her neck and rush back into her little house with
her....it was clear to see that she was crazy about her little ones and they
were crazy about her...

     one of them was so attatched to her mum..she'd be by her side
constantly...each day shed be out looking over her girl..like a tiny lioness
making sure they were safe...

     and when she died a year later... her constant conpanion would squeek
mournfully...she refused to even play with her other sisters who would nudge her
and groom her to try and make her feel better...

     so my perfectly healthy little lady died of a heart attack a day and a half
later after her mum..im sure it was of a broken heart...

     so if i have children one day...i'll be sure to let my kids know that
animals..even rats and mice are not toys....but living..breathing creatures who
also have emotions...thats the kind of thing that would give me "delight"....

     i think its cruel to keep breeding a poor rat and giving away her children
each time..leaving her with her maternal feelings...going through the pain of
childbirth..and then having it torn away..for a few dollars....

     it would never happen in humans...they would never get a woman pregnant over
and over again and take away her child each time .......so then why do it to a
little defenceless animal??...

     just think about that...

     hope i havent offended you in any way...

     Have a Great day

     Kathy :)




   James <OzScrnWriter@...> wrote:
     My daughter Jamie - 8yo - have joined to gain more information about
   successful breeding of rats. Jamie has just midwifed her third litter
   and sold them to our local pet shop [at 4 weeks] where I am delighted
   to say she has a waiting list of her friends from school and Guides.
   Bathurst is becoming a very rat-freindly town with the under 10's!

   Our main sire is approaching 18 months and has developed a loss of fur
   and some redness under his chin - they are kept very clean and he is
   in a separate cage except for mating? However, my daughter also has a
   fancy guinea pig and a cockatiel. I am wondering about mites [we do
   live in Bathurst but it is winter]or whether it's a function of his
   advancing rat years.  I haven't seen him scratching inordinately.

   Any advice gratefully received.

   Jamie & James







   Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Edit: Rats are NOT solitary animals. :D
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Naomi
   To: AMRIS_rodents_and_rabbits@...
   Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 9:02 AM
   Subject: Re: AMRIS Rodents & Rabbits Hello Everybody!


   Hi there. My name is Naomi. I'm a first time poster, but I've been reading for
a while now.

   I have eight ratties. Three adult girls, three teenage boys and two baby
girls. I felt the need to respond to Jamie &James' email as I was disturbed by
its content.

   To Jamie & James:

   I just wanted to say that I agree with everything Kathy has said. By breeding
this rat over and over and discarding the babies you are teaching your children
that life is cheap and animals are disposable.

   I have never bred rats, but a family member has bred our family dog (not my
choice). After her puppies were taken away she became despondent and depressed.
It took her more than a year to get over it and come out of her shell again.
Even then, she has never been the same since. She went from a happy, carefree
dog to a reclusive, serious animal in one day.

   Today she can be a mix of both. But I would never do that to an animal again.

   I also wanted to say that I believe four weeks is too young for the rats to be
separated. Five weeks or six would be better.

   Further, I just wanted to make a point about supplying pet stores with rats.
When you do this you don't know where the babies will be going or what will
happen to them. People treat rodents like toys a lot of the time. They are not
given the respect they deserve. Some of them will no doubt, go to feed snakes,
as many snakes will only feed on live food.

   If you bring these little babies into the world it is your responsibility to
ensure that they are taken care of and have good lives. There is no way of
ensuring this if you sell them to a pet store.

   Rats do not always make good kids pets. They are pretty fragile and can pretty
much take a kid's finger off. I've had my finger bone broken by a rat.

   I don't want to be offensive, but I find what you are doing objectionable and
I feel as though it needs further thought.

   I hope you decide to reconsider.

   Naomi.


   P.S: I hope your stud buck has company in that cage. Rats are solitary animals
and do not cope well with isolation.

   P.P.S: Pease take your rat to the vet to get his problem cleared up.


     ----- Original Message -----
     From: Katherine Medina
     To: AMRIS_rodents_and_rabbits@...
     Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:52 AM
     Subject: Re: AMRIS Rodents & Rabbits Hello Everybody!



     Hi there!!

       well...i hope i dont dont sound mean..but there are so many rats in
shelters..i dont understand the need to breed the poor things.....

       people just dont seem to understand that animals...like humans..have
feelings...maternal feeling too...

       when i first go a pair of mice..i thought i had bought two girls..but in
fact..one was a male..which was evident when my little girl had a litter of 12
babies...

       and it is a heartless thing to seperate the mother from its babies without
need..to make  a couple of bucks....

       she was so protective of them.... ...whenever i took one away to inspect
for their health..she would come out of her nest...put her little paws up in the
air as if asking me to give her back..an not go back in until i put her
back..then she'd grab her by the skin of her neck and rush back into her little
house with her....it was clear to see that she was crazy about her little ones
and they were crazy about her...

       one of them was so attatched to her mum..she'd be by her side
constantly...each day shed be out looking over her girl..like a tiny lioness
making sure they were safe...

       and when she died a year later... her constant conpanion would squeek
mournfully...she refused to even play with her other sisters who would nudge her
and groom her to try and make her feel better...

       so my perfectly healthy little lady died of a heart attack a day and a
half later after her mum..im sure it was of a broken heart...

       so if i have children one day...i'll be sure to let my kids know that
animals..even rats and mice are not toys....but living..breathing creatures who
also have emotions...thats the kind of thing that would give me "delight"....

       i think its cruel to keep breeding a poor rat and giving away her children
each time..leaving her with her maternal feelings...going through the pain of
childbirth..and then having it torn away..for a few dollars....

       it would never happen in humans...they would never get a woman pregnant
over and over again and take away her child each time .......so then why do it
to a little defenceless animal??...

       just think about that...

       hope i havent offended you in any way...

       Have a Great day

       Kathy :)




     James <OzScrnWriter@...> wrote:
       My daughter Jamie - 8yo - have joined to gain more information about
     successful breeding of rats. Jamie has just midwifed her third litter
     and sold them to our local pet shop [at 4 weeks] where I am delighted
     to say she has a waiting list of her friends from school and Guides.
     Bathurst is becoming a very rat-freindly town with the under 10's!

     Our main sire is approaching 18 months and has developed a loss of fur
     and some redness under his chin - they are kept very clean and he is
     in a separate cage except for mating? However, my daughter also has a
     fancy guinea pig and a cockatiel. I am wondering about mites [we do
     live in Bathurst but it is winter]or whether it's a function of his
     advancing rat years.  I haven't seen him scratching inordinately.

     Any advice gratefully received.

     Jamie & James







     Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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     Checked by AVG Free Edition.
     Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 21/07/2006



   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
   Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 21/07/2006



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi there. My name is Naomi. I'm a first time poster, but I've been reading for a
while now.

I have eight ratties. Three adult girls, three teenage boys and two baby girls.
I felt the need to respond to Jamie &James' email as I was disturbed by its
content.

To Jamie & James:

I just wanted to say that I agree with everything Kathy has said. By breeding
this rat over and over and discarding the babies you are teaching your children
that life is cheap and animals are disposable.

I have never bred rats, but a family member has bred our family dog (not my
choice). After her puppies were taken away she became despondent and depressed.
It took her more than a year to get over it and come out of her shell again.
Even then, she has never been the same since. She went from a happy, carefree
dog to a reclusive, serious animal in one day.

Today she can be a mix of both. But I would never do that to an animal again.

I also wanted to say that I believe four weeks is too young for the rats to be
separated. Five weeks or six would be better.

Further, I just wanted to make a point about supplying pet stores with rats.
When you do this you don't know where the babies will be going or what will
happen to them. People treat rodents like toys a lot of the time. They are not
given the respect they deserve. Some of them will no doubt, go to feed snakes,
as many snakes will only feed on live food.

If you bring these little babies into the world it is your responsibility to
ensure that they are taken care of and have good lives. There is no way of
ensuring this if you sell them to a pet store.

Rats do not always make good kids pets. They are pretty fragile and can pretty
much take a kid's finger off. I've had my finger bone broken by a rat.

I don't want to be offensive, but I find what you are doing objectionable and I
feel as though it needs further thought.

I hope you decide to reconsider.

Naomi.


P.S: I hope your stud buck has company in that cage. Rats are solitary animals
and do not cope well with isolation.

P.P.S: Pease take your rat to the vet to get his problem cleared up.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Katherine Medina
   To: AMRIS_rodents_and_rabbits@...
   Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:52 AM
   Subject: Re: AMRIS Rodents & Rabbits Hello Everybody!



   Hi there!!

     well...i hope i dont dont sound mean..but there are so many rats in
shelters..i dont understand the need to breed the poor things.....

     people just dont seem to understand that animals...like humans..have
feelings...maternal feeling too...

     when i first go a pair of mice..i thought i had bought two girls..but in
fact..one was a male..which was evident when my little girl had a litter of 12
babies...

     and it is a heartless thing to seperate the mother from its babies without
need..to make  a couple of bucks....

     she was so protective of them.... ...whenever i took one away to inspect for
their health..she would come out of her nest...put her little paws up in the air
as if asking me to give her back..an not go back in until i put her back..then
she'd grab her by the skin of her neck and rush back into her little house with
her....it was clear to see that she was crazy about her little ones and they
were crazy about her...

     one of them was so attatched to her mum..she'd be by her side
constantly...each day shed be out looking over her girl..like a tiny lioness
making sure they were safe...

     and when she died a year later... her constant conpanion would squeek
mournfully...she refused to even play with her other sisters who would nudge her
and groom her to try and make her feel better...

     so my perfectly healthy little lady died of a heart attack a day and a half
later after her mum..im sure it was of a broken heart...

     so if i have children one day...i'll be sure to let my kids know that
animals..even rats and mice are not toys....but living..breathing creatures who
also have emotions...thats the kind of thing that would give me "delight"....

     i think its cruel to keep breeding a poor rat and giving away her children
each time..leaving her with her maternal feelings...going through the pain of
childbirth..and then having it torn away..for a few dollars....

     it would never happen in humans...they would never get a woman pregnant over
and over again and take away her child each time .......so then why do it to a
little defenceless animal??...

     just think about that...

     hope i havent offended you in any way...

     Have a Great day

     Kathy :)




   James <OzScrnWriter@...> wrote:
     My daughter Jamie - 8yo - have joined to gain more information about
   successful breeding of rats. Jamie has just midwifed her third litter
   and sold them to our local pet shop [at 4 weeks] where I am delighted
   to say she has a waiting list of her friends from school and Guides.
   Bathurst is becoming a very rat-freindly town with the under 10's!

   Our main sire is approaching 18 months and has developed a loss of fur
   and some redness under his chin - they are kept very clean and he is
   in a separate cage except for mating? However, my daughter also has a
   fancy guinea pig and a cockatiel. I am wondering about mites [we do
   live in Bathurst but it is winter]or whether it's a function of his
   advancing rat years.  I haven't seen him scratching inordinately.

   Any advice gratefully received.

   Jamie & James







   Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
   Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 21/07/2006



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi there!!

   well...i hope i dont dont sound mean..but there are so many rats in
shelters..i dont understand the need to breed the poor things.....

   people just dont seem to understand that animals...like humans..have
feelings...maternal feeling too...

   when i first go a pair of mice..i thought i had bought two girls..but in
fact..one was a male..which was evident when my little girl had a litter of 12
babies...

   and it is a heartless thing to seperate the mother from its babies without
need..to make  a couple of bucks....

   she was so protective of them.... ...whenever i took one away to inspect for
their health..she would come out of her nest...put her little paws up in the air
as if asking me to give her back..an not go back in until i put her back..then
she'd grab her by the skin of her neck and rush back into her little house with
her....it was clear to see that she was crazy about her little ones and they
were crazy about her...

   one of them was so attatched to her mum..she'd be by her side
constantly...each day shed be out looking over her girl..like a tiny lioness
making sure they were safe...

   and when she died a year later... her constant conpanion would squeek
mournfully...she refused to even play with her other sisters who would nudge her
and groom her to try and make her feel better...

   so my perfectly healthy little lady died of a heart attack a day and a half
later after her mum..im sure it was of a broken heart...

   so if i have children one day...i'll be sure to let my kids know that
animals..even rats and mice are not toys....but living..breathing creatures who
also have emotions...thats the kind of thing that would give me "delight"....

   i think its cruel to keep breeding a poor rat and giving away her children
each time..leaving her with her maternal feelings...going through the pain of
childbirth..and then having it torn away..for a few dollars....

   it would never happen in humans...they would never get a woman pregnant over
and over again and take away her child each time .......so then why do it to a
little defenceless animal??...

   just think about that...

   hope i havent offended you in any way...

   Have a Great day

   Kathy :)




James <OzScrnWriter@...> wrote:
   My daughter Jamie - 8yo - have joined to gain more information about
successful breeding of rats. Jamie has just midwifed her third litter
and sold them to our local pet shop [at 4 weeks] where I am delighted
to say she has a waiting list of her friends from school and Guides.
Bathurst is becoming a very rat-freindly town with the under 10's!

Our main sire is approaching 18 months and has developed a loss of fur
and some redness under his chin - they are kept very clean and he is
in a separate cage except for mating? However, my daughter also has a
fancy guinea pig and a cockatiel. I am wondering about mites [we do
live in Bathurst but it is winter]or whether it's a function of his
advancing rat years.  I haven't seen him scratching inordinately.

Any advice gratefully received.

Jamie & James







  Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A study chellenge for all those who have wild mice or rats.
    I got this idea from The Rat Fan Club of America's newsletter, June
2006 edition. from Debbie Ducommun's editorial about the book
Pleasurable Kingdom : Animals and the Nature of Feeling Good, by
Jonathan Balcombe, Ph.D.
First read this: One of my favourite anecdotes comes from naturalist-
photographer Lewis Wayne Walker, who discovered a wild rat running in
a rodent exercise wheel he had stored in his barn. By itself, it's
just and isolated, if compelling, observation. But whats to keep
people from setting out running wheels (instead of traps) in places
where wild rats live and monitoring the results?

So why not try this. We'd love to hear your results online inside this
club.

catch you
Rebekah Blackwolf-Mitchell, club founder.

My daughter Jamie - 8yo - have joined to gain more information about
successful breeding of rats. Jamie has just midwifed her third litter
and sold them to our local pet shop [at 4 weeks] where I am delighted
to say she has a waiting list of her friends from school and Guides.
Bathurst is becoming a very rat-freindly town with the under 10's!

Our main sire is approaching 18 months and has developed a loss of fur
and some redness under his chin - they are kept very clean and he is
in a separate cage except for mating? However, my daughter also has a
fancy guinea pig and a cockatiel. I am wondering about mites [we do
live in Bathurst but it is winter]or whether it's a function of his
advancing rat years.  I haven't seen him scratching inordinately.

Any advice gratefully received.

Jamie & James

Hi
I'm looking to buy a rat or two but I don't want to go to a pet shop.
I've had 3 rats before, all pet shop rats and I'd like to get a rat or
two from a breeder who breeds for personality.

I want a rat that enjoys being handled as I will be handling it a lot.
I will most likley buy 2 rats as my girlfriend will want one as well
and she misses having rats as pets.

Can anyone reccomend a perth breeder who breeds like this?

How much will I expect to pay for a rat bred like this?

Thanks in advance
Sam

hey guys is there anything different that i should do for a baby mouse 16-17
weeks old

Hello James and welcome to the club. What a nice old age 2 and a half
isfor a mouse. Sorry to hear that she passed on.
Quite often the Australian Rat Fanciers Society dose a few country
shows and community expos and they have a mouse breeder who displays
her mice. The link to the club is inside our links section.\
Cheers Rebekah.

Hi my name is James Freeman and l am 7 years old and l have just lost my oldest
and first mouse Blossom. She was nearly 2 and a half years old and l would like
to get another female mouse to replace her.I have three other  female mice and
will there be any problems introducing a new mouse - the others are her
children.I got a really pretty black/white girl from a lady at the Seymour Show
in October 2004 and would like another show mouse as they are prettier than the
pet shop ones.I am in Romsey Victoria- does anyone breed them near here or are
there any shows coming up on this side of town or we can go down to Melbourne to
pick up a new mouse in the school holidays James Freeman (and Mum Pauline)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok, firstly I am looking for a breeder of beautifully temperamented
Ratties available to WA with showing/breeding potential. If anyone
has any recommendations please let me know.

As to those people making grand statements about excessive rat
breeding, I have a few points to make as you are clearly
misunderstanding quite a few things.

Breeding any animal should be about improving that breed. Both with
regard to temperament and conformation. You will find that almost all
your dumped rats are from backyard-breeder backgrounds (either from
the 'breeder' themselves or through a pet store) and are dumped by
OWNERS who are un-informed, ill-equipped or just plain lazy.


Part of a breeders/sellers responsibility is to TRY to make sure that
the buyers are making well informed choices. That is what breeding
associations are in place for, to present a set of rules and
regulations to make sure that breed standards are met and to ensure
that the buyers are getting quality animals. Associations provide a
degree of control/regulation of their species.


Now you are trying to tell the people here to 'stop breeding' Do you
honestly think that that will solve the problem? If the public
doesn't have easy access to animals they know are QUALITY, they are
going to settle for backyard-breeding stock, animals that are bred
without ANY knowledge of breeding lines or consideration of
temperament, animals that are bred indiscriminately and probably
constantly, usually without regard to the health of the mother.


The more people there are dedicated to a high quality of breeding,
the more the public will demand quality animals. As a result backyard-
breeders will get less business, no business, no profit, no profit,
no backyard-breeding.

The solution is not to 'stop breeding' but to raise awareness with
events like shows and demonstrations, putting brochures and
information in petstores like the WA Ferret society do. People need
to know that these asscociations exist and that they can actually get
rats from registered breeders.


As a side note I would like to state for the record that I actually
work for a petstore, one that I feel has high standards (before you
ask, no, we dont actually sell rats in our store, mostly due to local
council regulations...apparently rats are considered to be vermin by
our local un-informed council :P) and we are dedicated to providing
information and advice on all types of pets.


We are actually changing managers soon, so I am going to speak to my
new boss about possibly holding a 'rat day' where maybe some of you
breeders can come in and talk to people and bring in some of your
little ones for them to see. I think she would be very interested. I
will post more information on this if she agrees.

Anyway, if you happen to live in Perth, feel free to drop
past 'Morley Pets Paradise' for a chat, my name is Christine.

Hello  can anyone give details on where mice shows are held near
Toowoomba or Brisbane and whom to contact to join a fanciers club
I would like to get into showing pet mice.

Thanku