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Re: hydrogen   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #353 of 3295 |
>YES THERE IS. and it just happens to be the most plentiful atom in
the universe. hydrogen.
Sorry, that's misinformation. Hydrogen, whether in the gaseous form or
in a
fuel cell, is not a source of energy, but a storage mechanism. The hydrogen
is produced in the first instance by the input of energy (into the fuel
cell, or as an electric charge that separates the H from the O in water).
So, hydrogen can replace the battery in an electric car, but it cannot
replace whatever you used to charge up the battery in the first place.

>poo poohers claim you need huge amounts of electricity. incorrect. it
takes 1.23 volts [less than a AA battery] to seperate hydrogen and
oxygen atoms from water via electrolysis. although 1.7 volts must be
supplied. the lost 0.47 volts expended in the process.
Again, you need to understand the concepts. Voltage is not a measure of
the amount of power used. It can best be explained by analogy to flowing
water. Voltage is like the slope of the river: how fast it flows. Amperage
is the amount of power, equivalent to the number of litres of water flowing
past a point. Wattage is the product of volts and amps, or power. With
water, that is the total volume (number of litres flowing past at any one
time, multiplied by the rate of flow). So, volts are not 'expended'. The
process occurs irrespective of the voltage used. How much hydrogen you
generate is the function of the number of watts you put in. If you want the
amount of power output a car engine generates, then you need to have that
much power available from your hydrogen. To generate that will need the same
amount of electricity, plus the inevitable inefficiency of the conversion
process.

>with such low voltage requirements, wind turbines or photovoltaic
panels are quite adequate.
As I said, voltage is irrelevant. Anyway, you can set up wind and
photovoltaic to generate whatever voltage you want. It's a question of how
many watts you need, and that is incredibly large. It is of a different
scale. You need to revise some basic high school physics and calculate
actual amounts.

>my own intended project is to cut 44 gallon/200 litre drums in half
lengthways, and reweld on a shaft in an 'S' shape, so wind direction
doesn't matter. then mount vertically and use a push bike hub as a
ratchet so it only spins in one direction. rather than pulleys and
belts to drive a generator, i'll use geared up sprokets with bike
chains for cost effectiveness and durability.
This is called a Savonius rotor, and there are readily available plans
for it. Its problem for electricity is an inherently low rotational speed.
It is not a good device for driving an alternator or generator. Something
large enough to push a bike hub around will generate enough electrity charge
up a battery that will keep a couple of small lights burning overnight. It
might work a model car, but not even a real electrically assisted moped.
Sorry, you need to do your sums.

Later of your paragraphs imply the use of gaseous hydrogen. This is NOT
a good idea. Hydrogen has such a small molecular size that it is almost
impossible to contain. It escapes through almost any join, any flexible
pipe, etc. The fuel cell has been developed to get around this problem.
Also, what happens to a hydrogen-containing tank in a collision or fire?
And I agree with you that fuel cells are too heavy and bulky at this
stage.

Finally, thank you for reproducing that interesting German report. It
bears out everything I have said above. Read it again.

I am sorry to puncture your balloon, but hydrogen cannot replace petroleum.

All the best,
Bob
------------------------------------------------
Dr Bob Rich bobrich@...
http://bobswriting.com
http://anxietyanddepression-help.com
http://mudsmith.net
Order your autographed copy of the 'Earth Garden Building Book'.
Just released: 'Cancer: A personal challenge'.
------------------------------------------------




Sun Jan 8, 2006 9:51 am

bobrich18
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Message #353 of 3295 |
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... the universe. hydrogen. Sorry, that's misinformation. Hydrogen, whether in the gaseous form or in a fuel cell, is not a source of energy, but a storage...
Dr Bob Rich
bobrich18
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Jan 8, 2006
9:59 am

if that is so, the so to is EVERYTHING ever said/claimed regarding sources of energy. y'see, not only IS hydrogen a source of energy, but the MOST viable one...
greg hopwood
ghoppy9
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Jan 8, 2006
12:15 pm

Hiya Greg, Bob... This is interesting.... Thank you for your clear explanation Bob. Quite a while ago, I attended a Green energy forum and quietly listened to...
Anne Goddard
wildnfreeoz
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Jan 8, 2006
4:17 pm

Hi all, I have a book I am going to write a review on & will post it here called The Hype about Hydrogen. In the next week or so (I hope!!) Cheers Mick... ......
Mick Pope
polymathematica
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Jan 9, 2006
1:41 am

... Let's keep this mature, OK? If you look at my mudsmith site, you will see my credentials for talking about conservation issues. Emotion does not change...
Dr Bob Rich
bobrich18
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Jan 9, 2006
9:51 am

I NOTE THAT DESPITE REPEATEDLY MENTIONING I AN TALKING ABOUT HYDROGEN GAS AS A FUEL TO RUN INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES, YOU [Bob] STILL WANT TO WAFFLE ABOUT...
ghoppy9
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Jan 12, 2006
11:27 am

Greetings a quick word. I hope in a few days to write a summary of a book that takes a realistic look at the use of hydrogen, the promises, possibilities and...
polymath
polymathematica
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Jan 13, 2006
9:08 am

sorry mick for my colourful language. but it gets a bit frustrating when those who evidently know nothing and/or have no experience on a topic repeat already...
greg hopwood
ghoppy9
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Jan 13, 2006
10:39 am

Greg, no good shouting. That doesn't convince people. the point you need to answer comes from one of the articles you yourself posted. It stated that it takes...
Dr Bob Rich
bobrich18
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Jan 13, 2006
10:49 am

well bob. sometimes when people plug their ears and just keep repeating that which has already repeatedly been disproven, shout is they only way to distract...
greg hopwood
ghoppy9
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Jan 13, 2006
11:53 am

Hi Greg, I know the furstrations as well as anyone - try having a conversation with a 6 day creationist. I'll try and precis the book as well as I can. The...
polymath
polymathematica
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Jan 13, 2006
9:58 pm

I should also add that I guess we are all more or less on the same side here (now that the other fellow got the boot)! ... Mick Pope - Natural Philosopher...
polymath
polymathematica
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Jan 13, 2006
10:01 pm

... but if you're using outdated hydrocarbon burning, it's energy inefficient. so matters alot. Greg, this is going to be my last reply to you. You know you...
Dr Bob Rich
bobrich18
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Jan 14, 2006
11:22 am

Dr Bob Rich <bobrich@...> wrote: > ghoppy9 wrote :and the double unit measurement matters not when using sustainables. but if you're using...
greg hopwood
ghoppy9
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Jan 16, 2006
8:02 am

Hiya Bob, Mick and Greg, I have watched this "debate" with great interest. As mentioned in an earlier post, I am not an engineer... I do have a question which...
Anne Goddard
wildnfreeoz
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Jan 14, 2006
8:43 pm

Anne Goddard <winter___@...> wrote: Hiya Bob, Mick and Greg, - hi back atcha Anne. I have watched this "debate" with great interest. As...
greg hopwood
ghoppy9
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Jan 16, 2006
8:49 am

Anne, you have the basic idea correctly, but the details somewhat jumbled. 'H2O' means two hydrogens to one oxygen. Water + electricity (a process called...
Dr Bob Rich
bobrich18
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Jan 16, 2006
11:10 am

http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Supppage6990.html time to re-fire the hydrogen debate? Snip> What's a rectangle of dirt today may turn into an entirely energy ...
Anne Goddard
wildnfreeoz
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Mar 5, 2007
11:12 pm

this may be intresting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FozmG9PzTQ&feature=related...
willemvanaerschot
willemvanaer...
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Oct 27, 2008
8:03 pm

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