Hmmm. Radio Active normally broadcast on 89.0 but have been known to use the
LPFM band as a link to broadcast concerts etc 'live to air'.
KIX FM ar usually on 88.7 here.
Where abouts are you?
I suspect someoone is picking them up off the internet and re-broadcasting
locally on 88.7.

Dean
Groove 107.7 Wgtn.


Quoting "M.B & J.D Duffy" <DuffyFamily@...>:

> Hi Group. A couple of days ago I started picking up a station on 88.7 in
> stereo calling themselves Radio Active.
>
> Now it's 52 km from Wellington to where I live ?
>
>

__________________________________________________
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Hmmm. Radio Active normally broadcast on 89.0 but have been known to use the
LPFM band as a link to broadcast concerts etc 'live to air'.
KIX FM ar usually on 88.7 here.
Where abouts are you?
I suspect someoone is picking them up off the internet and re-broadcasting
locally on 88.7.

Dean
Groove 107.7 Wgtn.


Quoting "M.B & J.D Duffy" <DuffyFamily@...>:

> Hi Group. A couple of days ago I started picking up a station on 88.7 in
> stereo calling themselves Radio Active.
>
> Now it's 52 km from Wellington to where I live ?
>
> That what I call incredible propogation on 500mw
>
> M.B.D
>



Groove 107.7FM
PO Box 10-989
The Terrace
Wellington
Ph 04-381 GROOVE

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the LPFM_Radio
group.

   File        : /trailersmall_new.wmv
   Uploaded by : kt3353 <katako.brown8518@...>
   Description : Heavy Hitters trailer volume 2                            
www.sequenceentertainment.com

You can access this file at the URL

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Regards,

kt3353 <katako.brown8518@...>

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Rowse

To: LPFM_Radio@...

Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 2:39 PM

Subject: Re: [LPFM] new member (well sort of)

A mono transmitter will set you back approximately $350 + shipping (maybe $60 for shipping), depending on exchange rates of course. Make sure you get it preinstalled in a box, it will save you a lot of hassle, unless of course you are handy with a soldering iron, then you could get it as a kit and save some money. You can of course get a stereo coder installed as well which will cost you an extra $200+. Stereo sounds much better but you don't get the distance that you would with mono. Roughly 4 times the power is required to get the same distance from a stereo TX as from a mono.

 

NRG: http://www.nrgkitsfm.com/NRG-FM-Transmitters.html You will also need a power supply which will set you back about $100 including shipping. They do not send the transmitter and PSU in the same package so you have to pay 2 lots of shipping. My advice is to get one from Jaycar Electronics (there is a store in Christchurch). They have the EXACT same PSU as NRG supply, but much cheaper. http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=MP3036&CATID=&keywords=MP3036&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=chocky181nz

 

As for antennas, try Steve Fogarty at Tennatron. www.tennatron.co.nz My folded dipole from there cost $185 including shipping to Auckland and 20m of low loss coax cable.

 

Hope this helps.

Michael

Valdus Radio 107.7fm Howick

 

<chocky181nz@...> wrote:

Hi everyone I have enjoyed reading the posts here. I am looking at
starting a LPFM station in Addington CHCH. I have all the music I need
and have it all automated and it is running fine. All I am missing is
the transmitter to run it and would like to konw how much it would cost
to buy one and set it up.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

Hi everyone I have enjoyed reading the posts here. I am looking at
starting a LPFM station in Addington CHCH. I have all the music I need
and have it all automated and it is running fine. All I am missing is
the transmitter to run it and would like to konw how much it would cost
to buy one and set it up.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

Hi everyone I have enjoyed reading the posts here. I am looking at
starting a LPFM station in Addington CHCH. I have all the music I need
and have it all automated and it is running fine. All I am missing is
the transmitter to run it and would like to konw how much it would cost
to buy one and set it up.

Hi Dave,

I'm based in Christchurch.

Cheers,
Jye


--- Dave Smith <radiopegasus@...> wrote:


---------------------------------

Hi Jye..

Can you please tell me where you are actually based.

In or out of Christchurch ????

Regards

Dave





>From: "Jye" <jyl12@...>
>Reply-To: LPFM_Radio@...
>To: LPFM_Radio@...
>Subject: [LPFM] Help on getting a frequency for
broadcasting in Christchurch
>Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 04:55:13 -0000
>
>Hi, can someone please direct me to places where I
can rent or apply
>for a frequency so that I can have a full-day
broadcasting program?
>Should I apply for license first or try get a
frequency first?
>
>Cheers,
>Jye
>
>




---------------------------------
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____________________________________________________
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This is japanese radio program. Japanese only. Have a good time!!

http://takako-hour.hp.infoseek.co.jp/

--- paul winter <matrix1075fm@...> wrote:

> Nice!
> After the party you may want to clean up your
> Wellington venue.
> The station is not locked on 107.3, it is frequently
> overmodulating, the TX is above the legal limit and
> you Jamie don't care.
> Fleet in Wellington is interfering with 107.5 FM and
> you don't reply to e-mails.
> Well, we could get together and sort out your TX.
> We can help.
> Right now some of our listeners are contacting the
> RSM.
> Happy Birthday
>
>
> --- Jamie Connor <jamie@...> wrote:
>
> > Media Release Thursday July 6, 2005
> >
> > FLEET FM CELEBRATES 2nd BIRTHDAY WITH 31 HOUR
> RADIO
> > SHOW!
> >
> > It's official. This month Fleet FM proudly
> > celebrates a second birthday in
> > business. And as part of the momentous occasion,
> > Fleet FM is attempting what
> > no other NZ radio station (in their right mind)
> > would ever do - a 31 hour
> > radio show!
> >
> > Hosted by '31 Flavours' show host Hooch, listeners
> > can tune in on Friday
> > July 22 from 5pm to hear the mayhem unfold. There
> is
> > guaranteed to be
> > round-the-clock antics, tomfoolery and general
> > silliness as show-pony-host
> > Hooch brings us a quality selection of 'fat
> > freshies' from the vaults of his
> > funky soul-infused music collection.
> >
> > "This is really nuts!!!" says Fleet FM Station
> > Manager Jamie Connor, "If
> > anyone has 31 hours of quality music it will be
> > Hooch."
> >
> > It seems like only yesterday that Fleet FM was
> > birthed in the back of a
> > friend's flat on a construction site. Since July
> 18,
> > 2003 Fleet FM has grown
> > in both size and strength, with more than 80 DJ's
> > and nearly 60 unique shows
> > and an ever-increasing number of listeners in both
> > Auckland and Wellington.
> >
> > "Fleet has really grown over the past couple of
> > years - It has been great to
> > watch it unfold." Says Connor, "A lot of the ways
> > the station has grown have
> > been internal; passion behind the station has
> grown
> > exponentially."
> >
> > Fleet FM has plenty to celebrate and be proud of.
> > With a wealth of talented
> > DJ's and flagship shows that include ex-Radio One
> > breakfast host 'Andy
> > Flyboy' on Fleet breakfast (7-9am weekdays), Fleet
> > FM has also played host
> > to many successful parties in the past year. The
> > most recent event was a
> > 'Pelvic Trust' (local art trust) Party. Held over
> > Queen's Birthday weekend,
> > the party attracted some 400 people, many of which
> > had to be turned away due
> > to venue size constraints.
> >
> > And as part of an ingenious (and hair-brained)
> > initiative to 'bridge the
> > gap' between Auckland and Wellington, every
> Saturday
> > evening from 7-9pm
> > Fleet FM broadcasts LIVE from Wellington during
> 'The
> > Cross Over'. Also from
> > Wellington, is a brand new show hosted by A Low
> Hum
> > editor and respected NZ
> > indie-rock photographer, Blink every Monday night
> > from 9-11pm.
> >
> > Fleet FM has also recently started its own free
> > zine, with local content and
> > writers from the Fleet FM stable - and if that
> > wasn't enough to declare the
> > Arts well and alive on Fleet FM, the station
> > recently received funding from
> > Creative NZ to produce a series of radio plays.
> Stay
> > tuned for details.
> >
> > Fleet FM is a non-commercial and non-profit, free
> > format (100% DJ choice)
> > guardband radio station nestled in the heart of
> > sunny Newton. Broadcasting
> > to central Auckland on 88.3FM and Wellington on
> > 107.3FM with 24 hour
> > webstreaming, Fleet FM was set up with the
> intention
> > of being 'something
> > accessible' for people to get involved with - an
> > alternative station with an
> > opportunity for up and coming DJ's to have a go.
> >
> > Another point of difference is the fact that there
> > are NO ADS on the
> > station. Simply put, Fleet FM provides an
> > alternative to the alternative.
> >
> > www.fleetfm.co.nz <http://www.fleetfm.co.nz/>
> >
> > 31 Flavours is proudly sponsored by vice
> > <http://www.viceland.com/>
> > magazine.
> >
> > For more information, interviews, advertising or
> > sponsorship queries please
> > contact
> >
> > Station Manager
> > Jamie Connor
> > Jamie@...
> > 021 374 466
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > LPFM Website:
> > http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/LPFM_Radio
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >     LPFM_Radio-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>




____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Nice!
After the party you may want to clean up your
Wellington venue.
The station is not locked on 107.3, it is frequently
overmodulating, the TX is above the legal limit and
you Jamie don't care.
Fleet in Wellington is interfering with 107.5 FM and
you don't reply to e-mails.
Well, we could get together and sort out your TX.
We can help.
Right now some of our listeners are contacting the
RSM.
Happy Birthday


--- Jamie Connor <jamie@...> wrote:

> Media Release Thursday July 6, 2005
>
> FLEET FM CELEBRATES 2nd BIRTHDAY WITH 31 HOUR RADIO
> SHOW!
>
> It's official. This month Fleet FM proudly
> celebrates a second birthday in
> business. And as part of the momentous occasion,
> Fleet FM is attempting what
> no other NZ radio station (in their right mind)
> would ever do - a 31 hour
> radio show!
>
> Hosted by '31 Flavours' show host Hooch, listeners
> can tune in on Friday
> July 22 from 5pm to hear the mayhem unfold. There is
> guaranteed to be
> round-the-clock antics, tomfoolery and general
> silliness as show-pony-host
> Hooch brings us a quality selection of 'fat
> freshies' from the vaults of his
> funky soul-infused music collection.
>
> "This is really nuts!!!" says Fleet FM Station
> Manager Jamie Connor, "If
> anyone has 31 hours of quality music it will be
> Hooch."
>
> It seems like only yesterday that Fleet FM was
> birthed in the back of a
> friend's flat on a construction site. Since July 18,
> 2003 Fleet FM has grown
> in both size and strength, with more than 80 DJ's
> and nearly 60 unique shows
> and an ever-increasing number of listeners in both
> Auckland and Wellington.
>
> "Fleet has really grown over the past couple of
> years - It has been great to
> watch it unfold." Says Connor, "A lot of the ways
> the station has grown have
> been internal; passion behind the station has grown
> exponentially."
>
> Fleet FM has plenty to celebrate and be proud of.
> With a wealth of talented
> DJ's and flagship shows that include ex-Radio One
> breakfast host 'Andy
> Flyboy' on Fleet breakfast (7-9am weekdays), Fleet
> FM has also played host
> to many successful parties in the past year. The
> most recent event was a
> 'Pelvic Trust' (local art trust) Party. Held over
> Queen's Birthday weekend,
> the party attracted some 400 people, many of which
> had to be turned away due
> to venue size constraints.
>
> And as part of an ingenious (and hair-brained)
> initiative to 'bridge the
> gap' between Auckland and Wellington, every Saturday
> evening from 7-9pm
> Fleet FM broadcasts LIVE from Wellington during 'The
> Cross Over'. Also from
> Wellington, is a brand new show hosted by A Low Hum
> editor and respected NZ
> indie-rock photographer, Blink every Monday night
> from 9-11pm.
>
> Fleet FM has also recently started its own free
> zine, with local content and
> writers from the Fleet FM stable - and if that
> wasn't enough to declare the
> Arts well and alive on Fleet FM, the station
> recently received funding from
> Creative NZ to produce a series of radio plays. Stay
> tuned for details.
>
> Fleet FM is a non-commercial and non-profit, free
> format (100% DJ choice)
> guardband radio station nestled in the heart of
> sunny Newton. Broadcasting
> to central Auckland on 88.3FM and Wellington on
> 107.3FM with 24 hour
> webstreaming, Fleet FM was set up with the intention
> of being 'something
> accessible' for people to get involved with - an
> alternative station with an
> opportunity for up and coming DJ's to have a go.
>
> Another point of difference is the fact that there
> are NO ADS on the
> station. Simply put, Fleet FM provides an
> alternative to the alternative.
>
> www.fleetfm.co.nz <http://www.fleetfm.co.nz/>
>
> 31 Flavours is proudly sponsored by vice
> <http://www.viceland.com/>
> magazine.
>
> For more information, interviews, advertising or
> sponsorship queries please
> contact
>
> Station Manager
> Jamie Connor
> Jamie@...
> 021 374 466
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
> LPFM Website:
> http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/LPFM_Radio
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     LPFM_Radio-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>




____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Media Release Thursday July 6, 2005

FLEET FM CELEBRATES 2nd BIRTHDAY WITH 31 HOUR RADIO SHOW!

It's official. This month Fleet FM proudly celebrates a second birthday in
business. And as part of the momentous occasion, Fleet FM is attempting what
no other NZ radio station (in their right mind) would ever do - a 31 hour
radio show!

Hosted by '31 Flavours' show host Hooch, listeners can tune in on Friday
July 22 from 5pm to hear the mayhem unfold. There is guaranteed to be
round-the-clock antics, tomfoolery and general silliness as show-pony-host
Hooch brings us a quality selection of 'fat freshies' from the vaults of his
funky soul-infused music collection.

"This is really nuts!!!" says Fleet FM Station Manager Jamie Connor, "If
anyone has 31 hours of quality music it will be Hooch."

It seems like only yesterday that Fleet FM was birthed in the back of a
friend's flat on a construction site. Since July 18, 2003 Fleet FM has grown
in both size and strength, with more than 80 DJ's and nearly 60 unique shows
and an ever-increasing number of listeners in both Auckland and Wellington.

"Fleet has really grown over the past couple of years - It has been great to
watch it unfold." Says Connor, "A lot of the ways the station has grown have
been internal; passion behind the station has grown exponentially."

Fleet FM has plenty to celebrate and be proud of. With a wealth of talented
DJ's and flagship shows that include ex-Radio One breakfast host 'Andy
Flyboy' on Fleet breakfast (7-9am weekdays), Fleet FM has also played host
to many successful parties in the past year. The most recent event was a
'Pelvic Trust' (local art trust) Party. Held over Queen's Birthday weekend,
the party attracted some 400 people, many of which had to be turned away due
to venue size constraints.

And as part of an ingenious (and hair-brained) initiative to 'bridge the
gap' between Auckland and Wellington, every Saturday evening from 7-9pm
Fleet FM broadcasts LIVE from Wellington during 'The Cross Over'. Also from
Wellington, is a brand new show hosted by A Low Hum editor and respected NZ
indie-rock photographer, Blink every Monday night from 9-11pm.

Fleet FM has also recently started its own free zine, with local content and
writers from the Fleet FM stable - and if that wasn't enough to declare the
Arts well and alive on Fleet FM, the station recently received funding from
Creative NZ to produce a series of radio plays. Stay tuned for details.

Fleet FM is a non-commercial and non-profit, free format (100% DJ choice)
guardband radio station nestled in the heart of sunny Newton. Broadcasting
to central Auckland on 88.3FM and Wellington on 107.3FM with 24 hour
webstreaming, Fleet FM was set up with the intention of being 'something
accessible' for people to get involved with - an alternative station with an
opportunity for up and coming DJ's to have a go.

Another point of difference is the fact that there are NO ADS on the
station. Simply put, Fleet FM provides an alternative to the alternative.

www.fleetfm.co.nz <http://www.fleetfm.co.nz/>

31 Flavours is proudly sponsored by vice <http://www.viceland.com/>
magazine.

For more information, interviews, advertising or sponsorship queries please
contact

Station Manager
Jamie Connor
Jamie@...
021 374 466

Hi Wicked,

Nice to call yourself WICKED. And what is "nearly better than the
professional big commercial stations" supposed to mean?

Might be good to invest in a spit guard too at these prices.


--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "Ethan .L." <Kead@x> wrote:
> Hey Guys
>
> There is this WICKED as Sweeper Production company, I have came
across 'LFM
> Productions' There quality is nearly better then the professional
big commercial
> stations! They use these WICKED effects!
>
> They are the cheapest I have ever seen! Look at these prices!:
>
> - Single Sweeper, Liner or ID - Up to :12 (twelve seconds) - $9.95
> - Dry Voiceover (no effects) - Up to :15 (fifteen seconds) - $7.75
> - Just effects (Voiceover provided from client) - Up to :15 - $7.00
> - Short Stinger - Up to :4 (four seconds) - $4.50
> - 6 Pack - Up to :13 (thirteen seconds) - $49.95
> - 12 Pack - Up to :13 (thirteen seconds) - $95.95
> - Launch Pack: 20 Sweepers - Up to :12 (twelve seconds) &
> 2 Promos - Up to :25 (twenty-five seconds) $189.95
> - :25 Promo - $14.95
> - :60 Promo - $35.15
>
> All prices incl.GST
>
> CHECK THEM OUT! They are doing a promotion at the moment where you
can get
> 2 free demo sweepers for your station!
>
> http://sweeps.lfmonline.org
>
> Regards,
> Ethan

--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "Groove 107.7FM" <dean.c@p...>
wrote:
> Isn't it easier just to register with APRA?

APRA collects money to pay the people who write and perform music that
we broadcast. Not all of it, but a lot of it. . Theose copyrights last
for up to 70 years after all those concerned are dead. The short
answer is that APRA licenses me to broadcast the songs and
performabnces on CDs and other commerical records.

I'm talking about radio comedy and drama shows, where the rights run
out more or less fifty years after the first broadcast. I can't buy
rights in dramas and broadcast shows from APRA, only from whoever owns
them, which can be complicated and expensive to establish.

So that's why I'm interested when shows run out of copyright and get
into the public domain, which is more the kind of money 1ZZ can afford.

If only it were so easy as AÜRA

Philip


Primetime 1ZZ

The Cheapskate Station

Isn't it easier just to register with APRA?

----- Original Message -----
From: "wayneslife" <yahoo@...>
To: <LPFM_Radio@...>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:27 PM
Subject: [LPFM] Re: A question of copyright


--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "philip_crookes" <philip@c...>
wrote:
> --- In LPFM_Radio@..., "wayneslife" <yahoo@c...> wrote:
>
> (snip, with many thanks for helpful comment)

You are welcome.

> This is clear. But if we take the 51 year old broadcast, and
> re-broadcast it unchanged, how can we reconcile a further copyright
> claim against the broadcast with the Copyright Act's copyright limit
> of fifty years, because the broadcast must by definition include all
> its components. The Act doesn't say "Broadcasts apart from the
> performances of the script" or "broadcasts apart from the incidental
> music". Which arguably means that the broadcast rights in the script
> and music have been exhausted, and that the other rights that might
> remain are not broadcast rights and therefore irrelevant to a
broadcast.

Practical advice #1:

Stop reading my advice. Because of what I say below. Which you
shouldn't read so you can deny any knowledge of it.

Practical advice #2:

Just go ahead and do it. The most likely outcome is nothing. The next
most likely outcome is a cease and desist letter. At which point you
can cease or desist, or you can politely express your argument that
the broadcast is out of copyright. To which their lawyers will respond
that the incidental music is not. To which you can respond that a)
prove it and b) prove that the BBC holds the copyright to the
incidental music. At which point that will give up or they will
furnish ssaid proof, or say see you in court. You want to avoid court.
  But so will they. Because only lawyers will win. So don't make them
try and prove a point on you. Most likely they would take out an
injunction to stop you.

Fortunately in this country there are no statutory damages (not 3 x
value of show for example), so since you're not making money out of
it, and you genuinely believe the work is out of copyright (so it's a
good thing you stopped reading) the damages might be around $1 on a
good day. You'd still be stopped from broadcasting.

So if it was me, I'd just go ahead, but I'm the sort of crazy guy you
wouldn't bother reading the comments of.

> Conceptually I am in difficulties here. I can see there could be
> problems if I wanted to make a new version of an old show, or publish
> it, or possibly even produce it on a CD, because that is not
> broadcasting - although sound recordings come under the same limit in
> the NZ Copyright Act.

Your problem with making a new version of the show would be if they
could argue the script was a literary work with its own copyright. You
could argue it's simply an anicallry part of a boradcast and doesn't
exit in its own right, but I fear you would lose.

Putting an old show on CD - I expect the BBC would fight you, but
if the broadcast copyright has expired (which it has) then you can
do anything you like with it, including making a boxed CD set and
selling it. This still comes back to the principal question of whether
a broadcast can have other copyrights entanged with it.

> You mentioned case law - can you point me to any NZ cases. I found one
> tangentially related decision in the US Supreme Court in which one of
> the justices observed that once an item was in the public domain,
> anyone might do anything they liked with it.

NZ Cases - no. The best and clearest cases are in the States. While
tgheir copyright is very different, this particular concept is in
common. It's pretty well accepted in Australia and their copyright law
is disgustingly similar.

> I'm much tempted to try it and see. But I am also building an
> extension to our house and I don't want to go to law to try to set
> some precedent and put the hose at risk. The BBC, one of my
> ex-employers, has far better paid lawyers than I can afford. And I
> doubt there are many lawyers that would be interested to take this on
> as a pro bono act of grace and mercy.

Oh well, I hope you didn't read down this far so you just went ahead
in the honest and well-founded belief that copyright is gone, and with
some comfort from the fact that damages would be negligible.

Now for the final nail:

NZ Statute specifically recognises that one copyright work (eg a
broadcast) may contain another copyright work and gives an exemption
from breech of copyright if that copying was incidental (not to be
confused with incidental music - in this case incidental means by
happenstance, whereas incidental music is background/filler but *is*
there deliberately). A classic example is a TV broadcast that has a
painting in the background. You haven't infringed the copyright in
that painting. Or if you recorded a radio interview and someone in the
background was listening to Enya on a boom box and was picked up as
background noise, you don't have to pay Enya for using that music. The
statute says:
Copyright in a work is not infringed by-...
(b)...the making of a broadcast, or the inclusion of a cable
programme in a cable programme service, in which a copyright work has
been incidentally copied;

Of course you can't stroll through the art gallery filming every
painting or sit at a ZZ Top concert recording every song, and then
sell your work, and claim it was an incidental recording. Oh no, they
saw Mr Shrewdy coming a while back...

For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a musical work,
words spoken or sung with music, or so much of a sound recording,
broadcast, or cable programme as includes a musical work or such
words, shall not be regarded as incidentally copied in another work if
the musical work or, as the case requires, such words or that sound
recording, broadcast, or cable programme is deliberately copied.

The kicker of this is that by explicitly stating that you can't be
penalised for incidental copyright breach in a broadcast then the
unavoidable implication is that you can be done over for
non-incidental copyright breaches in a broadcast. ie. if the broadcast
includes some music deliberately part of the broadcast and part of
it's own copyright duration. The NZ Act recognises that one copyright
work can be inside another (music within a broadcast for example) and
only exempts accidental inclusion. So the music can taint the broadcast.

Otherwise the effect is to negate copyright over songs for example. I
broadcast "She's got legs" and 50 years later that broadcast is in the
public domain? Even though ZZ Top are still kicking? I don't think so.

Summary: You've fallen in the water! You're for the dreaded deading
this week. Tee hee hee.


*waits for applause*



Not a sausage. Goes to bed.








---------------------------------------------------------
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Yahoo! Groups Links









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--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "Brian/Pamela" <bj.gran@x> wrote:
> New station in Bay View Hawkes Bay. 17 km from Napier. Uses 107.00
relaying
> Calvary Chapel programming from 60 Rogers Rd address.
> Regards Brian
> instrumental107@y...
> 88.4/107.7 NAPIER

How do you get it to go 17km? I've tried and can't, and will end up
taking it from one to the other each day in a brown paper bag.

There has to be an easier way, even if there are hills and valleys
between us.

Philip

Primetime Radio 1ZZ

--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "wayneslife" <yahoo@c...> wrote:

A most useful article which unfortunately, following expert advice, I
have not read.

Not having read it, I have persuaded myself (after much argument,
because I am quite hard to convince of things) that  I must make sure
that through APRA or other relevant licensing I have covered the
appropriate rights in all the music I play on Primetime 1ZZ.

Now I will spend Saturday morning not reading the paper, and then I
think for light relaxation I won't read Raymond Queneau's "Les Fleurs
Bleues", before I don't look at the footy tonight.

It's ... all in the mind, you know.

Philip

Primetime 1ZZ

> --- In LPFM_Radio@..., "philip_crookes" <philip@c...>
> wrote:
> > --- In LPFM_Radio@..., "wayneslife" <yahoo@c...> wrote:
> >
> > (snip, with many thanks for helpful comment)
>
> You are welcome.
>
> > This is clear. But if we take the 51 year old broadcast, and
> > re-broadcast it unchanged, how can we reconcile a further copyright
> > claim against the broadcast with the Copyright Act's copyright limit
> > of fifty years, because the broadcast must by definition include all
> > its components. The Act doesn't say "Broadcasts apart from the
> > performances of the script" or "broadcasts apart from the incidental
> > music". Which arguably means that the broadcast rights in the script
> > and music have been exhausted, and that the other rights that might
> > remain are not broadcast rights and therefore irrelevant to a
> broadcast.
>
> Practical advice #1:
>
> Stop reading my advice. Because of what I say below. Which you
> shouldn't read so you can deny any knowledge of it.
>
> Practical advice #2:
>
> Just go ahead and do it. The most likely outcome is nothing. The next
> most likely outcome is a cease and desist letter. At which point you
> can cease or desist, or you can politely express your argument that
> the broadcast is out of copyright. To which their lawyers will respond
> that the incidental music is not. To which you can respond that a)
> prove it and b) prove that the BBC holds the copyright to the
> incidental music. At which point that will give up or they will
> furnish ssaid proof, or say see you in court. You want to avoid court.
>  But so will they. Because only lawyers will win. So don't make them
> try and prove a point on you. Most likely they would take out an
> injunction to stop you.
>
> Fortunately in this country there are no statutory damages (not 3 x
> value of show for example), so since you're not making money out of
> it, and you genuinely believe the work is out of copyright (so it's a
> good thing you stopped reading) the damages might be around $1 on a
> good day. You'd still be stopped from broadcasting.
>
> So if it was me, I'd just go ahead, but I'm the sort of crazy guy you
> wouldn't bother reading the comments of.
>
> > Conceptually I am in difficulties here. I can see there could be
> > problems if I wanted to make a new version of an old show, or publish
> > it, or possibly even produce it on a CD, because that is not
> > broadcasting - although sound recordings come under the same limit in
> > the NZ Copyright Act.
>
> Your problem with making a new version of the show would be if they
> could argue the script was a literary work with its own copyright. You
> could argue it's simply an anicallry part of a boradcast and doesn't
> exit in its own right, but I fear you would lose.
>
> Putting an old show on CD - I expect the BBC would fight you, but
> if the broadcast copyright has expired (which it has) then you can
> do anything you like with it, including making a boxed CD set and
> selling it. This still comes back to the principal question of whether
> a broadcast can have other copyrights entanged with it.
>
> > You mentioned case law - can you point me to any NZ cases. I found one
> > tangentially related decision in the US Supreme Court in which one of
> > the justices observed that once an item was in the public domain,
> > anyone might do anything they liked with it.
>
> NZ Cases - no. The best and clearest cases are in the States. While
> tgheir copyright is very different, this particular concept is in
> common. It's pretty well accepted in Australia and their copyright law
> is disgustingly similar.
>
> > I'm much tempted to try it and see. But I am also building an
> > extension to our house and I don't want to go to law to try to set
> > some precedent and put the hose at risk. The BBC, one of my
> > ex-employers, has far better paid lawyers than I can afford. And I
> > doubt there are many lawyers that would be interested to take this on
> > as a pro bono act of grace and mercy.
>
> Oh well, I hope you didn't read down this far so you just went ahead
> in the honest and well-founded belief that copyright is gone, and with
> some comfort from the fact that damages would be negligible.
>
> Now for the final nail:
>
> NZ Statute specifically recognises that one copyright work (eg a
> broadcast) may contain another copyright work and gives an exemption
> from breech of copyright if that copying was incidental (not to be
> confused with incidental music - in this case incidental means by
> happenstance, whereas incidental music is background/filler but *is*
> there deliberately). A classic example is a TV broadcast that has a
> painting in the background. You haven't infringed the copyright in
> that painting. Or if you recorded a radio interview and someone in the
> background was listening to Enya on a boom box and was picked up as
> background noise, you don't have to pay Enya for using that music. The
> statute says:
> Copyright in a work is not infringed by—...
>  (b)...the making of a broadcast, or the inclusion of a cable
> programme in a cable programme service, in which a copyright work has
> been incidentally copied;
>
> Of course you can't stroll through the art gallery filming every
> painting or sit at a ZZ Top concert recording every song, and then
> sell your work, and claim it was an incidental recording. Oh no, they
> saw Mr Shrewdy coming a while back...
>
> For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a musical work,
> words spoken or sung with music, or so much of a sound recording,
> broadcast, or cable programme as includes a musical work or such
> words, shall not be regarded as incidentally copied in another work if
> the musical work or, as the case requires, such words or that sound
> recording, broadcast, or cable programme is deliberately copied.
>
> The kicker of this is that by explicitly stating that you can't be
> penalised for incidental copyright breach in a broadcast then the
> unavoidable implication is that you can be done over for
> non-incidental copyright breaches in a broadcast. ie. if the broadcast
> includes some music deliberately part of the broadcast and part of
> it's own copyright duration. The NZ Act recognises that one copyright
> work can be inside another (music within a broadcast for example) and
> only exempts accidental inclusion. So the music can taint the broadcast.
>
> Otherwise the effect is to negate copyright over songs for example. I
> broadcast "She's got legs" and 50 years later that broadcast is in the
> public domain? Even though ZZ Top are still kicking? I don't think so.
>
> Summary: You've fallen in the water! You're for the dreaded deading
> this week. Tee hee hee.
>
>
> *waits for applause*
>
>
>
> Not a sausage. Goes to bed.

--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "philip_crookes" <philip@c...>
wrote:
> --- In LPFM_Radio@..., "wayneslife" <yahoo@c...> wrote:
>
> (snip, with many thanks for helpful comment)

You are welcome.

> This is clear. But if we take the 51 year old broadcast, and
> re-broadcast it unchanged, how can we reconcile a further copyright
> claim against the broadcast with the Copyright Act's copyright limit
> of fifty years, because the broadcast must by definition include all
> its components. The Act doesn't say "Broadcasts apart from the
> performances of the script" or "broadcasts apart from the incidental
> music". Which arguably means that the broadcast rights in the script
> and music have been exhausted, and that the other rights that might
> remain are not broadcast rights and therefore irrelevant to a
broadcast.

Practical advice #1:

Stop reading my advice. Because of what I say below. Which you
shouldn't read so you can deny any knowledge of it.

Practical advice #2:

Just go ahead and do it. The most likely outcome is nothing. The next
most likely outcome is a cease and desist letter. At which point you
can cease or desist, or you can politely express your argument that
the broadcast is out of copyright. To which their lawyers will respond
that the incidental music is not. To which you can respond that a)
prove it and b) prove that the BBC holds the copyright to the
incidental music. At which point that will give up or they will
furnish ssaid proof, or say see you in court. You want to avoid court.
  But so will they. Because only lawyers will win. So don't make them
try and prove a point on you. Most likely they would take out an
injunction to stop you.

Fortunately in this country there are no statutory damages (not 3 x
value of show for example), so since you're not making money out of
it, and you genuinely believe the work is out of copyright (so it's a
good thing you stopped reading) the damages might be around $1 on a
good day. You'd still be stopped from broadcasting.

So if it was me, I'd just go ahead, but I'm the sort of crazy guy you
wouldn't bother reading the comments of.

> Conceptually I am in difficulties here. I can see there could be
> problems if I wanted to make a new version of an old show, or publish
> it, or possibly even produce it on a CD, because that is not
> broadcasting - although sound recordings come under the same limit in
> the NZ Copyright Act.

Your problem with making a new version of the show would be if they
could argue the script was a literary work with its own copyright. You
could argue it's simply an anicallry part of a boradcast and doesn't
exit in its own right, but I fear you would lose.

Putting an old show on CD - I expect the BBC would fight you, but
if the broadcast copyright has expired (which it has) then you can
do anything you like with it, including making a boxed CD set and
selling it. This still comes back to the principal question of whether
a broadcast can have other copyrights entanged with it.

> You mentioned case law - can you point me to any NZ cases. I found one
> tangentially related decision in the US Supreme Court in which one of
> the justices observed that once an item was in the public domain,
> anyone might do anything they liked with it.

NZ Cases - no. The best and clearest cases are in the States. While
tgheir copyright is very different, this particular concept is in
common. It's pretty well accepted in Australia and their copyright law
is disgustingly similar.

> I'm much tempted to try it and see. But I am also building an
> extension to our house and I don't want to go to law to try to set
> some precedent and put the hose at risk. The BBC, one of my
> ex-employers, has far better paid lawyers than I can afford. And I
> doubt there are many lawyers that would be interested to take this on
> as a pro bono act of grace and mercy.

Oh well, I hope you didn't read down this far so you just went ahead
in the honest and well-founded belief that copyright is gone, and with
some comfort from the fact that damages would be negligible.

Now for the final nail:

NZ Statute specifically recognises that one copyright work (eg a
broadcast) may contain another copyright work and gives an exemption
from breech of copyright if that copying was incidental (not to be
confused with incidental music - in this case incidental means by
happenstance, whereas incidental music is background/filler but *is*
there deliberately). A classic example is a TV broadcast that has a
painting in the background. You haven't infringed the copyright in
that painting. Or if you recorded a radio interview and someone in the
background was listening to Enya on a boom box and was picked up as
background noise, you don't have to pay Enya for using that music. The
statute says:
Copyright in a work is not infringed by—...
	 (b)...the making of a broadcast, or the inclusion of a cable
programme in a cable programme service, in which a copyright work has
been incidentally copied;

Of course you can't stroll through the art gallery filming every
painting or sit at a ZZ Top concert recording every song, and then
sell your work, and claim it was an incidental recording. Oh no, they
saw Mr Shrewdy coming a while back...

For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a musical work,
words spoken or sung with music, or so much of a sound recording,
broadcast, or cable programme as includes a musical work or such
words, shall not be regarded as incidentally copied in another work if
the musical work or, as the case requires, such words or that sound
recording, broadcast, or cable programme is deliberately copied.

The kicker of this is that by explicitly stating that you can't be
penalised for incidental copyright breach in a broadcast then the
unavoidable implication is that you can be done over for
non-incidental copyright breaches in a broadcast. ie. if the broadcast
includes some music deliberately part of the broadcast and part of
it's own copyright duration. The NZ Act recognises that one copyright
work can be inside another (music within a broadcast for example) and
only exempts accidental inclusion. So the music can taint the broadcast.

Otherwise the effect is to negate copyright over songs for example. I
broadcast "She's got legs" and 50 years later that broadcast is in the
public domain? Even though ZZ Top are still kicking? I don't think so.

Summary: You've fallen in the water! You're for the dreaded deading
this week. Tee hee hee.


*waits for applause*



Not a sausage. Goes to bed.

--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "wayneslife" <yahoo@c...> wrote:

(snip, with many thanks for helpful comment)



> The important concept to grasp is that a work may have more than
> one copyright holder. Consider the book "The Hitch-Hikers Guide to
> the Galaxy". Consider I get copyright permission from the estate of
> Douglas Adams to publish a revised copy with a new chapter I wrote.
> Who owns the copyright in this new book? Both me, and Douglas' Adams
> estate. When does copyright expire? 50 years after Douglas' death?
> Only for the bits he wrote. You can take the bits he wrote in 2053
> but that new chapter and that new edition as a whole - hands off for
> (I hope) another 70 years at least... :-)

This is clear. But if we take the 51 year old broadcast, and
re-broadcast it unchanged, how can we reconcile a further copyright
claim against the broadcast with the Copyright Act's copyright limit
of fifty years, because the broadcast must by definition include all
its components. The Act doesn't say "Broadcasts apart from the
performances of the script" or "broadcasts apart from the incidental
music". Which arguably means that the broadcast rights in the script
and music have been exhausted, and that the other rights that might
remain are not broadcast rights and therefore irrelevant to a broadcast.

Conceptually I am in difficulties here. I can see there could be
problems if I wanted to make a new version of an old show, or publish
it, or possibly even produce it on a CD, because that is not
broadcasting - although sound recordings come under the same limit in
the NZ Copyright Act.

You mentioned case law - can you point me to any NZ cases. I found one
tangentially related decision in the US Supreme Court in which one of
the justices observed that once an item was in the public domain,
anyone might do anything they liked with it.

I'm much tempted to try it and see. But I am also building an
extension to our house and I don't want to go to law to try to set
some precedent and put the hose at risk. The BBC, one of my
ex-employers, has far better paid lawyers than I can afford. And I
doubt there are many lawyers that would be interested to take this on
as a pro bono act of grace and mercy.

Philip

Primetime Radio 1ZZ

--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "philip_crookes" <philip@c...>
wrote:
> --- In LPFM_Radio@..., "Richard Phelps"
> <retrohitradio@p...> wrote:
> > Interesting topic. This would have little to do with copyright law =
> > You can broadcast any programme be it 5 days or 50 years old, as long
> > as you've paid for the right to do so.
> >
> > Breaking Copyright law is altering the material by way of
repackaging,
> > re-recording or sampling, right?

Wrong. Copyright assigns certain rights to the copyright holder.
Essentially a right of ownership where they can determine what you
can do with it. You can't simply rebroadcast (unchanged or not) a
show you recorded from 3 years ago (in fact you're not even permitted
to record that show except for a short time shifting for personal
listening). [In fact re-transmission is explictly permitted in NZ
under certain conditions...]

> Well, yes and no. Copyright is broken if you reproduce (either by
> copoying or broadcasting)  something you didn't create yourself or
> don't have the rights to unbless it is out of copyright.
>
> Anything that is 'out of copyright', said to be in the "public domain'
> can be broadcast free of charge, without payment.

Yup.

> In NZ, the copyright on broadcast programmes and sound recordings runs
> out fifty years after the end of the year the programme or recording
> was first published.

Yup, but... see below...

> We need only consider NZ law here, because the copyright laws of other
> countries do not apply here, any more than any of their other laws. NZ
> gives the same copyright protection to material produced abroad as it
> would have if it had been produced here.

Yup.

> That means that some of the popular recordings of the 1950s  -
> Presley, Bill Haley etc - are now starting to move into the public
> domain, and that some classic radio shows like Dad & Dave, the early
> Goon Shows before 1955, American serials like Dragnet and Box 13, are
> all Public Domain as far as NZ copyright goes. And that should mean
> that they can be freely broadcast without payment of royalties by
> small or large radio stations here.

Yes but.... see below...

> BBC threatened the Australian Goon show site by claiming that BBC
> owned the trademark The Goon Show, though it is not listed in the UK
> Patent Office list of registered tradmarks, in which Goons are the
> trademark of a kind of chocolate biscuit. Nor is it clear what
> difference their ownership of such a trademark would make unless one
> were presenting something that wasn't the Goon Show but claimed it was.

Yup...they were on a losing battle here...
>
> They also maintained that the scripts were subject to a different
> copyright regime. The issue then is whether that separate copyright in
> the scripts - and in the music heard during the show - requires
> separate payment or not.

Here they are right....sadly...

> I believe I'm entitled to broadcast 50 year old recordings by Bill
> Haley & Elvis Presley without additional payment.

Nope....see below...

> But I'm not entitled
> to re-record the songs with other performers without paying the
> appropriate royalties for the words and music.

Correct.

> And on that analogy I should be free to re-broadcast the Goon Shows or
> any other 50-year-old programme.
>
> I'm still thinking about it.
>
> All advice and opinion welcomed,

Sorry...no opinions. Just facts. :-)

The important concept to grasp is that a work may have more than
one copyright holder. Consider the book "The Hitch-Hikers Guide to
the Galaxy". Consider I get copyright permission from the estate of
Douglas Adams to publish a revised copy with a new chapter I wrote.
Who owns the copyright in this new book? Both me, and Douglas' Adams
estate. When does copyright expire? 50 years after Douglas' death?
Only for the bits he wrote. You can take the bits he wrote in 2053
but that new chapter and that new edition as a whole - hands off for
(I hope) another 70 years at least... :-)

Now I persuade Enya to let me use Orinoco Flow on the CD-ROM version
of the upgraded Hitch-Hikers book - now there are three separate
copyright owners to deal with. (The operating system Linux has about
15,000 copyright owners, each of whom you would need to get agreement
to do something with Linux like change the terms of any licence).

So Bill Hayley - the broadcast is free of copyright in NZ, BUT the
composer and the performer both retain a separate copyright. Sounds
stupid, but that's what the law says and that's what the courts have
ruled in exactly these cases. So even the incidental music in the Goon
Show can catch you out. Maybe you can edit it out.

So when is a broadcast free and clear. Well you can wait until
everyone associated has been dead for 50 years. OR broadcasts without
musical or dramatic content that is separately copyright. So for
example yes you can rebroadcast a 1954 broadcast of Hamlet. You can't
rebroadcast a 1954 broadcast of Death of a Salesman. You can't
rebroadcast Orson Welles's 1938 War of the World's because even though
HG Wells Copyright has expired, Orson Welles adapted it so it's his
copyright that counts (if there was incidental music that may have an
effect too).

In summary it's a "last man standing" argument. With multiple
copyright holders the 50 year countdown doesn't start until the death
of the last composer of any dramatic/musical work included in a
broadcast. I think that's wrong. I think that's theft from the public
domain well. I think it's too long. But that's the law as it stands.

There is some rule along the lines of what Philip was saying.
I thought it was that the copyright expired 50 years after the death of the
copyright owner...

Broadcasting music without permission (and usually payment) is, of course,
illegal. Isn't it included in the copyright law?

Dean
Groove 107.7FM

Quoting Richard Phelps <retrohitradio@...>:

> Interesting topic. This would have little to do with copyright law =
> You can broadcast any programme be it 5 days or 50 years old, as long
> as you've paid for the right to do so.
>
> Breaking Copyright law is altering the material by way of repackaging,
> re-recording or sampling, right?
>
> ...
>
> --- In LPFM_Radio@..., "philip_crookes" <philip@c...>
> wrote:
> > Accoring to NZ copyright law, copyright in radio broadcasts expires
> > fifty years after the end of the year in which the broadcast was
> first
> > made available.
> >
> > Does this mean that if I can get hold of a 50 year old programme, I
> > can broadcast it?
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>  LPFM Website: http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/LPFM_Radio
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Groove 107.7FM
PO Box 10-989
The Terrace
Wellington
Ph 04-381 GROOVE

--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "Richard Phelps"
<retrohitradio@p...> wrote:
> Interesting topic. This would have little to do with copyright law =
> You can broadcast any programme be it 5 days or 50 years old, as long
> as you've paid for the right to do so.
>
> Breaking Copyright law is altering the material by way of repackaging,
> re-recording or sampling, right?
>
> ...
Well, yes and no. Copyright is broken if you reproduce (either by
copoying or broadcasting)  something you didn't create yourself or
don't have the rights to unbless it is out of copyright.

Anything that is 'out of copyright', said to be in the "public domain'
can be broadcast free of charge, without payment.

In NZ, the copyright on broadcast programmes and sound recordings runs
out fifty years after the end of the year the programme or recording
was first published.

We need only consider NZ law here, because the copyright laws of other
countries do not apply here, any more than any of their other laws. NZ
gives the same copyright protection to material produced abroad as it
would have if it had been produced here.

That means that some of the popular recordings of the 1950s  -
Presley, Bill Haley etc - are now starting to move into the public
domain, and that some classic radio shows like Dad & Dave, the early
Goon Shows before 1955, American serials like Dragnet and Box 13, are
all Public Domain as far as NZ copyright goes. And that should mean
that they can be freely broadcast without payment of royalties by
small or large radio stations here.

BBC threatened the Australian Goon show site by claiming that BBC
owned the trademark The Goon Show, though it is not listed in the UK
Patent Office list of registered tradmarks, in which Goons are the
trademark of a kind of chocolate biscuit. Nor is it clear what
difference their ownership of such a trademark would make unless one
were presenting something that wasn't the Goon Show but claimed it was.

They also maintained that the scripts were subject to a different
copyright regime. The issue then is whether that separate copyright in
the scripts - and in the music heard during the show - requires
separate payment or not.

I believe I'm entitled to broadcast 50 year old recordings by Bill
Haley & Elvis Presley without additional payment. But I'm not entitled
to re-record the songs with other performers without paying the
appropriate royalties for the words and music.

And on that analogy I should be free to re-broadcast the Goon Shows or
any other 50-year-old programme.

I'm still thinking about it.

All advice and opinion welcomed,

Philip

Primetime Radio 1ZZ

Interesting topic. This would have little to do with copyright law =
You can broadcast any programme be it 5 days or 50 years old, as long
as you've paid for the right to do so.

Breaking Copyright law is altering the material by way of repackaging,
re-recording or sampling, right?

...

--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "philip_crookes" <philip@c...>
wrote:
> Accoring to NZ copyright law, copyright in radio broadcasts expires
> fifty years after the end of the year in which the broadcast was first
> made available.
>
> Does this mean that if I can get hold of a 50 year old programme, I
> can broadcast it?

Accoring to NZ copyright law, copyright in radio broadcasts expires
fifty years after the end of the year in which the broadcast was first
made available.

Does this mean that if I can get hold of a 50 year old programme, I
can broadcast it?

Does anyone know if there is legal precedent - i.e. a court judgment
in NZ - on this, and if so where? There's quite a bit of good stuff
around - all those V-Disks for instance, and old BBC & American
classics, not to mention countless Macquarie and Hector Crawford series.

I know BBC once threatened a Goon Show fan club web-site in Oz and
frightened them into pulling material the site was offering for
download. The BBC argued that there were stil residual rights in the
programmes - but surely if the programme is out of copyright it is out
of copyright, and that's that. You can hardly have a whole programme
that's in the public domain, but xou still have to pay residual rights
in it. Can you? I'm no copyright lawyer, which is why I am asking.

And does ABC still pay royalties on its early morning broadcasts of
the Goon Show - the ones that are over 50 years old?

This also posted to NZ Radio in case any of my large-scale broadcaster
colleagues have come up against this one.

All opinion welcomed.

Philip

Primetime Radio 1ZZ

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