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#5376 From: "wireless.radio" <happydayradio@...>
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2007 7:48 am
Subject:: [LPFM] Re: New Indian station on north shore
wireless.radio
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Yes, good comment there Dave, and it echoes my comments about NOT
getting them involved unless absolutely necessary. While we don't want
to become police-people for the airwaves, there needs to be a certain
amount of self-regulation, as in any communal operation.
Once we determine where the offending station is, it is then just a
matter of knocking on the door and explaining to them that they are
operating outside the parameters of the GURL, and showing them the
(excessive) mod levels they are using.
I'm sure this can work to bring about change.


--- In LPFM_Radio@..., DaveD <marday@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> A comment for what it is worth, from personal experience and
observations.
>
> If you, as an LPFM broadcaster, make a complaint to MED about another
> broadcaster, expect to have your operation checked out as part of the
> investigation process.
>
> At first glance, this might appear a little over the top, but it
appears
> to be pretty much standard practice with most "law enforcement"
> organizations, not just MED, who have to investigate these sort of
> things. I guess it is a filter to sort the serious from the trivial or
> maybe even vindictive complaints.
>
> Cheers
> DaveD
>

#5375 From: "Richard Phelps" <richard@...>
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2007 12:18 am
Subject:: Re: Blue Monkey
customcuts_nz
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If anyone wanted Suzanne Paul's atrocious "Blue Monkey" - you can
download the song at the link below.

Trvia: Chorus vocals by a young "I was young I needed the money" Boh
Runga.

cheers
RP

http://www.zshare.net/audio/208562013315a5/


--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "Richard Phelps" <richard@...>
wrote:
>
> Why would you want to PLAY the Blue Monkey on air?
> The CD works much better as a coffee coaster.
>
> If you really want it, email me.
>
> RP
>
> --- In LPFM_Radio@..., "walkingthecat2002"
> <mxpress@> wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone help me get hold of a copy of a song?  The song is 'The
blue
> > Monkey" sung by Suzanne paul.
> >
> > I spoke to her about it last friday night at the Shortland street 15
> > year party and even she admitted that she didn't have a copy.
When i
> > told her that i wanted it so i could play it on my local radio
station,
> > after a cackle that would have made any egg laying chicken proud she
> > said ' well it is NZ music month after all"
> >
> > So, if anyone can help me with a copy, i will also forward it on
to her.
> >
> > Any help appreciated
> >
> > Cheers
> > Denis
> >
> > 106.7 FM
> > New Plymouth
> >
>

#5374 From: DaveD <marday@...>
Date: Wed May 30, 2007 12:42 pm
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Re: New Indian station on north shore
marday2
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Send Email Send Email
 
Hi all,
A comment for what it is worth, from personal experience and observations.

If you, as an LPFM broadcaster, make a complaint to MED about another
broadcaster, expect to have your operation checked out as part of the
investigation process.

At first glance, this might appear a little over the top, but it appears
to be pretty much standard practice with most "law enforcement"
organizations, not just MED, who have to investigate these sort of
things. I guess it is a filter to sort the serious from the trivial or
maybe even vindictive complaints.

Cheers
DaveD

#5373 From: Michael Hallager <lpfm-list@...>
Date: Wed May 30, 2007 12:07 pm
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Re: New Indian station on north shore
lpfm-list@...
Send Email Send Email
 
When and where is our next meeting? I have something for the agenda.

Michael Hallager
net trust ltd
www.networkstuff.co.nz p.09 839-1000

#5372 From: "wireless.radio" <happydayradio@...>
Date: Wed May 30, 2007 12:07 pm
Subject:: [LPFM] Re: New Indian station on north shore
wireless.radio
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
This is the inherent problem of allowing an almost "open season" in
terms of broadcasting. The GURL has stringent provisions with it, but
when you allow people who often have absolutely NO RF skills at all to
suddenly put a transmitter to air with no peak limiting, no idea of
their EIRP and no respect for other users, this is the exact situation
that occurs.
I suggest that the RFS is NOT brought in unless absolutely necessary,
as every situation like this brings the GURL under more scrutiny, and
as has been shown in the past, if it becomes too much of a thorn for
them, the ability to use such a service is often removed.
When I am in Auckland next I will bring some gear up and see what I
can discover.
I can run mobile from my van, and while I don't have a DF, I can work
out where they are and what their mod levels are.




--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "Groove 107.7FM" <dean.c@...> wrote:
>
> As a discussion topic, how far does everyone think we should allow
someone
> like this to go before speaking to RSM?
> By the sound of it, they could be breaking the GURL licence in 3
ways; No
> station identification, over modulating and potentially over legal
power.
> Do we prefer not to bother RSM or should we be helping police the
band for
> the benefit of those playing by the rules?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Dean
> Groove - Wellington
>
>   _____
>
> From: LPFM_Radio@...
[mailto:LPFM_Radio@...]
> On Behalf Of barknet@...
> Sent: Monday, 28 May 2007 10:56 a.m.
> To: LPFM_Radio@...
> Subject: Re: [LPFM] Re: New Indian station on north shore
>
>
>
> Hi Matt
> I'm a radio ham and have done fox hunts before.
> I used a hand held radio and unscrewed the aerial and
> walked/drove around till I could pick up a signal with no
> aerial.
> How that relates to LPFM... if your car radio Aerial slides
> into the pillar... tune into them... drive around till you
> pick em up... try frequencies 0.1 mhz above and below their
> frequency... you should be able to work out their location
> down to 2 or 3 streets maximum.
> Try it on your own transmitter to find out how far you can
> pick up your signal etc.
> (Or you could Fly all us LPFM people to Auckland and we
> could go door to door with baseball bats etc- Just kidding)
>
> Cheers
> Geoff
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> >
> > Still haven't been able to identify this station.
> >
> > I listened a lot in the weekend, and didn't hear a single
> > station ID.
> >
> > Volume is very loud (overmodulating at times), and they
> > are causing interference well into the CBD and up Ponsonby
> > road... Considering I transmit from Newton Rd/near
> > Ponsonby road area, they must be putting out one hell of a
> > lot of power to be doing that from Takapuna.
> >
> > Would really appreciate any information anyone might have
> > about this new station, or any ideas on how to locate
> > them.
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Matt
> > >
> > > The station is somewhere in the vicinity of Takapuna
> > > Grammar School but more West towards Hauraki, Belmont.
> > > Not as far South as Devonport. It is very strong, not on
> > > a high point and therefore a little suspect. I also
> > haven't heard any station id's. >
> > > John@theflea <mailto:John@theflea>
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In LPFM_Radio@yahoogro <mailto:LPFM_Radio%40yahoogroups.com.au>
> ups.com.au, Matt Camp
> > <matt@> wrote: >>
> > >> Does anybody have any information regarding a new
> > Indian/Hindi station >> broadcasting on 107.7 from the
> > North Shore in Auckland? >>
> > >> At this point I'm suspecting somewhere near Devonport.
> > >>
> > >> I haven't yet caught any station ID, so if anyone can
> > point me at a >> contact there, I'd love to get in touch.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

#5371 From: "wireless.radio" <happydayradio@...>
Date: Wed May 30, 2007 11:51 am
Subject:: [LPFM] Re: New Indian station on north shore
wireless.radio
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Hmmm. Why does that not surprise me?


--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "Matt Camp" <matt@...> wrote:

> Volume is very loud (overmodulating at times), and they are causing
> interference well into the CBD and up Ponsonby road...

#5370 From: "Groove 107.7FM" <dean.c@...>
Date: Mon May 28, 2007 12:12 am
Subject:: RE: [LPFM] Re: New Indian station on north shore
groove_crew
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As a discussion topic, how far does everyone think we should allow someone like this to go before speaking to RSM?
By the sound of it, they could be breaking the GURL licence in 3 ways; No station identification, over modulating and potentially over legal power.
Do we prefer not to bother RSM or should we be helping police the band for the benefit of those playing by the rules?
 
Thoughts?
 
Dean
Groove - Wellington

From: LPFM_Radio@... [mailto:LPFM_Radio@...] On Behalf Of barknet@...
Sent: Monday, 28 May 2007 10:56 a.m.
To: LPFM_Radio@...
Subject: Re: [LPFM] Re: New Indian station on north shore

Hi Matt
I'm a radio ham and have done fox hunts before.
I used a hand held radio and unscrewed the aerial and
walked/drove around till I could pick up a signal with no
aerial.
How that relates to LPFM... if your car radio Aerial slides
into the pillar... tune into them... drive around till you
pick em up... try frequencies 0.1 mhz above and below their
frequency... you should be able to work out their location
down to 2 or 3 streets maximum.
Try it on your own transmitter to find out how far you can
pick up your signal etc.
(Or you could Fly all us LPFM people to Auckland and we
could go door to door with baseball bats etc- Just kidding)

Cheers
Geoff

----- Original Message Follows -----
>
> Still haven't been able to identify this station.
>
> I listened a lot in the weekend, and didn't hear a single
> station ID.
>
> Volume is very loud (overmodulating at times), and they
> are causing interference well into the CBD and up Ponsonby
> road... Considering I transmit from Newton Rd/near
> Ponsonby road area, they must be putting out one hell of a
> lot of power to be doing that from Takapuna.
>
> Would really appreciate any information anyone might have
> about this new station, or any ideas on how to locate
> them.
>
> >
> > Hi Matt
> >
> > The station is somewhere in the vicinity of Takapuna
> > Grammar School but more West towards Hauraki, Belmont.
> > Not as far South as Devonport. It is very strong, not on
> > a high point and therefore a little suspect. I also
> haven't heard any station id's. >
> > John@theflea <mailto:John@theflea>
> >
> >
> > --- In LPFM_Radio@yahoogroups.com.au, Matt Camp
> <matt@...> wrote: >>
> >> Does anybody have any information regarding a new
> Indian/Hindi station >> broadcasting on 107.7 from the
> North Shore in Auckland? >>
> >> At this point I'm suspecting somewhere near Devonport.
> >>
> >> I haven't yet caught any station ID, so if anyone can
> point me at a >> contact there, I'd love to get in touch.
> >>
> >> Cheers.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


#5369 From: "theradiovault" <nzradiofan@...>
Date: Sun May 27, 2007 11:31 pm
Subject:: The Radio Vault
theradiovault
Offline Offline
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For anyone interested in NZ radio nostalgia...

http://nzradiofan.googlepages.com/home

We've got thousands of bumper sticker scans from NZ radio stations on
display, plus there's a monthly audio feature where you can hear a
montage of jingles, trailers and other identification from a chosen
radio station.  Check it out now, and please share the link with your
friends and colleagues.

We're also looking to add more LPFM station logos to our website.  If
your LPFM station has a sticker available, we'd love to receive a
copy.  Alternatively, a scan of your station's current (or previous)
logos would be appreciated.  Find out how to contribute via the above
link.

Thanks for your interest.

Duane @ The Radio Vault

#5368 From: barknet@...
Date: Sun May 27, 2007 10:56 pm
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Re: New Indian station on north shore
Mad_Milkie
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Matt
I'm a radio ham and have done fox hunts before.
I used a hand held radio and unscrewed the aerial and
walked/drove around till I could pick up a signal with no
aerial.
How that relates to LPFM... if your car radio Aerial slides
into the pillar... tune into them... drive around till you
pick em up... try frequencies 0.1 mhz above and below their
frequency... you should be able to work out their location
down to 2 or 3 streets maximum.
Try it on your own transmitter to find out how far you can
pick up your signal etc.
(Or you could Fly all us LPFM people to Auckland and we
could go door to door with baseball bats etc- Just kidding)

Cheers
Geoff

----- Original Message Follows -----
>
> Still haven't been able to identify this station.
>
> I listened a lot in the weekend, and didn't hear a single
> station ID.
>
> Volume is very loud (overmodulating at times), and they
> are causing interference well into the CBD and up Ponsonby
> road... Considering I transmit from Newton Rd/near
> Ponsonby road area, they must be putting out one hell of a
> lot of power to be doing that from Takapuna.
>
> Would really appreciate any information anyone might have
> about this new station, or any ideas on how to locate
> them.
>
> >
> > Hi Matt
> >
> > The station is somewhere in the vicinity of Takapuna
> > Grammar School but more West towards Hauraki, Belmont.
> > Not as far South as Devonport. It is very strong, not on
> > a high point and therefore a little suspect. I also
> haven't heard any station id's. >
> > John@theflea <mailto:John@theflea>
> >
> >
> > --- In LPFM_Radio@..., Matt Camp
> <matt@...> wrote: >>
> >> Does anybody have any information regarding a new
> Indian/Hindi station >> broadcasting on 107.7 from the
> North Shore in Auckland? >>
> >> At this point I'm suspecting somewhere near Devonport.
> >>
> >> I haven't yet caught any station ID, so if anyone can
> point me at a >> contact there, I'd love to get in touch.
> >>
> >> Cheers.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

#5367 From: "Matt Camp" <matt@...>
Date: Sun May 27, 2007 9:51 pm
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Re: New Indian station on north shore
mattcampnz
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Still haven't been able to identify this station.

I listened a lot in the weekend, and didn't hear a single station ID.

Volume is very loud (overmodulating at times), and they are causing
interference well into the CBD and up Ponsonby road... Considering I
transmit from Newton Rd/near Ponsonby road area, they must be putting out
one hell of a lot of power to be doing that from Takapuna.

Would really appreciate any information anyone might have about this new
station, or any ideas on how to locate them.

>
> Hi Matt
>
> The station is somewhere in the vicinity of Takapuna Grammar School but
> more West towards Hauraki, Belmont. Not as far South as Devonport. It is
> very strong, not on a high point and therefore a little suspect. I also
> haven't heard any station id's.
>
> John@theflea <mailto:John@theflea>
>
>
> --- In LPFM_Radio@..., Matt Camp <matt@...> wrote:
>>
>> Does anybody have any information regarding a new Indian/Hindi station
>> broadcasting on 107.7 from the North Shore in Auckland?
>>
>> At this point I'm suspecting somewhere near Devonport.
>>
>> I haven't yet caught any station ID, so if anyone can point me at a
>> contact there, I'd love to get in touch.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>
>
>

#5366 From: "grantthoms" <studio@...>
Date: Sat May 26, 2007 8:47 am
Subject:: OT: Birthday Greetings for The Cheese
grantthoms
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Everyone.

My station turns 1 year old on July 1st.
I'm trying to get as many people as possible to record a quick (around
10 seconds) cold voice liner wishing us a Happy First Birthday. :)
No rules on what you say, just end on '88.4FM The Cheese'.

If anyone would like to take part, please send me a birthday greeting
to : birthdaygreetings@...

These will play on rotate throughout July.  Would be great to have
everyone take part :)

Cheers,
Grant

#5365 From: "wireless.radio" <happydayradio@...>
Date: Sat May 26, 2007 12:27 am
Subject:: Re: New Indian station on north shore
wireless.radio
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hmmm, another situation in which a direction finder would be useful...
*runs off to look for plans* LOL


--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "bay107fm" <bay107fm@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Matt
>
> The station is somewhere in the vicinity of Takapuna Grammar School but
> more West towards Hauraki, Belmont. Not as far South as Devonport. It is
> very strong, not on a high point and therefore a little suspect. I also
> haven't heard any station id's.
>
> John@theflea <mailto:John@theflea>
>
>
> --- In LPFM_Radio@..., Matt Camp <matt@> wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody have any information regarding a new Indian/Hindi station
> > broadcasting on 107.7 from the North Shore in Auckland?
> >
> > At this point I'm suspecting somewhere near Devonport.
> >
> > I haven't yet caught any station ID, so if anyone can point me at a
> > contact there, I'd love to get in touch.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
>

#5364 From: "bay107fm" <bay107fm@...>
Date: Thu May 24, 2007 7:15 pm
Subject:: Re: New Indian station on north shore
bay107fm
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Hi Matt

The station is somewhere in the vicinity of Takapuna Grammar School but more West towards Hauraki, Belmont. Not as far South as Devonport. It is very strong, not on a high point and therefore a little suspect. I also haven't heard any station id's.

John@theflea


--- In LPFM_Radio@..., Matt Camp <matt@...> wrote:
>
> Does anybody have any information regarding a new Indian/Hindi station
> broadcasting on 107.7 from the North Shore in Auckland?
>
> At this point I'm suspecting somewhere near Devonport.
>
> I haven't yet caught any station ID, so if anyone can point me at a
> contact there, I'd love to get in touch.
>
> Cheers.
>


#5363 From: "wireless.radio" <happydayradio@...>
Date: Thu May 24, 2007 1:48 am
Subject:: Re: pre emphasis
wireless.radio
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
mS or uS?

Time constant is 50uS, just need to be sure we are dealing with the
right units here.


--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "averagesteward" <s.finlay@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
> Its not quite that simple because the components depend on the type
> of
> circuit and the impedance at the point it is inserted. It means we
> insert components to increase the gain at 3183 Hz. Components that
> will
> do this can consist of a large capacitor and small resistor or a
> large
> resistor and a small capacitor. Here are two sets of values that give
> the 50mS - a 680ohm resistor in series with a 10nF capacitor. Another
> combination would be a 1.5k ohm resistor in series with a 4.7nF
> capacitor. The first one would be better in a lower impedance
> circuit.
> Other values could be used in a higher impedance circuit e.g. 6.8k
> ohm and a 1nF capacitor - all have a time constant of approx 50mS.
>
> Stewart
>
> --- In LPFM_Radio@..., Michael Hallager <lpfm-
> list@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello-
> >
> > Could someone please advise me what component values are necessary
> to
> obtain
> > 50ms pre-emphasis?
> >
> > Thanks in anticipation.
> >
> > Michael
> >
>

#5362 From: "averagesteward" <s.finlay@...>
Date: Wed May 23, 2007 8:57 pm
Subject:: Re: pre emphasis
averagesteward
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Michael,
Its not quite that simple because the components depend on the type
of
circuit and the impedance at the point it is inserted. It means we
insert components to increase the gain at 3183 Hz. Components that
will
do this can consist of a large capacitor and small resistor or a
large
resistor and a small capacitor. Here are two sets of values that give
the 50mS - a 680ohm resistor in series with a 10nF capacitor. Another
combination would be a 1.5k ohm resistor in series with a 4.7nF
capacitor. The first one would be better in a lower impedance
circuit.
Other values could be used in a higher impedance circuit e.g. 6.8k
ohm and a 1nF capacitor - all have a time constant of approx 50mS.

Stewart

--- In LPFM_Radio@..., Michael Hallager <lpfm-
list@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello-
>
> Could someone please advise me what component values are necessary
to
obtain
> 50ms pre-emphasis?
>
> Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Michael
>

#5361 From: "wireless.radio" <happydayradio@...>
Date: Wed May 23, 2007 1:03 pm
Subject:: Re: Artists & Labels Seek Royalties from US Radio
wireless.radio
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Typical. Because they can't deal with the issue of illegal downloads
and piracy they start looking elsewhere for money and try to change a
system that's been working extremely well for many years. If they
start trying to extract large amounts of money out of radio stations
they'll shoot themselves in the foot.



--- In LPFM_Radio@..., Eddie O'Strange <blue.smoke@...>
wrote:
>
> Google Proposes Innovation in Radio Spectrum Auction:
> By JOHN MARKOFF
> The proposal calls on the F.C.C. to let companies allocate
> radio spectrum using the same kind of real-time auction
> that Google uses to sell ads.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/technology/22google.html?th&emc=th
> ______________________________________________________________
> COPYRIGHT LOBBY FORMED:
>
> WASHINGTON--Some of the staunchest advocates for
> stricter copyright laws have formed a new alliance
> designed to pressure Congress into preserving stronger
> intellectual property rights.
>
> The Copyright Alliance--which launched, complete with
> electric-green and white T-shirts displaying its logo
> at a morning Capitol Hill event here--consists of 29
> national organizations and companies that purport to
> represent 11 million workers in copyright-related
> industries. Those members include the Recording
> Industry Association of America, the Association of
> American Publishers, the Motion Picture Association of
> America, Microsoft, Viacom and Walt Disney.
>
> The group's members aren't expected to agree on all
> the nuances of policy debates, said Patrick Ross, the
> alliance's executive director.
>
> But according to a press release, they're all
> committed to broad goals like promoting the "vital
> role" of copyright in the U.S. economy and job market,
> encouraging inclusion of copyright protection
> requirements in international agreements, supporting
> civil and criminal penalties for piracy, and
> advocating against "diminishment" of copyright law.
>
> As copyrighted works become ever more widely
> distributed through digital means, those who own the
> rights "still want to get paid," Ross said.
>
> The group's formation drew applause from key
> politicians who preside over copyright law changes,
> including U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary
> Committee Chairman John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Rep.
> Howard Berman (D-Calif.), who heads a key House panel
> that influences copyright laws.
>
> Complete article at
> news.zdnet.com
> _____________________________________________________
>
> MUSIC
>
>
>
>
> Artists and Labels seek Royalties from Radio:
>
> By Jim Puzzanghera, LATimes Staff Writer
> May 21, 2007
>
> WASHINGTON ­ With CD sales tumbling, record
> companies and musicians are looking at a new
> potential pot of money: royalties from broadcast radio stations.
>
> For years, stations have paid royalties to
> composers and publishers when they played their
> songs. But they enjoy a federal exemption when
> paying the performers and record labels because,
> they argue, the airplay sells music.
>
> Now, the Recording Industry Assn. of America and
> several artists' groups are getting ready to push
> Congress to repeal the exemption, a move that
> could generate hundreds of millions of dollars annually in new
royalties.
>
> Mary Wilson, who with Diana Ross and Florence
> Ballard formed the original Supremes, said the
> exemption was unfair and forced older musicians
> to continue touring to pay their bills.
>
> "After so many years of not being compensated, it
> would be nice now at this late date to at least
> start," the 63-year-old Las Vegas resident said
> in Milwaukee, where she was performing at the
> Potawatomi Bingo Casino. "They've gotten 50-some
> years of free play. Now maybe it's time to pay up."
>
> The decision to take on the volatile performance
> royalty issue again highlights the rough times
> the music industry is facing as listeners abandon
> compact discs for digital downloads, often
> listening to music shared with friends or obtained from file-sharing
sites.
>
> "The creation of music is suffering because of
> declining sales," said RIAA Chief Executive Mitch
> Bainwol. "We clearly have a more difficult time
> tolerating gaps in revenues that should be there."
>
> It's not the first attempt to kill the exemption.
> In the past, politically powerful broadcasters beat back those efforts.
>
> But with satellite and Internet radio forced to
> pay "public performance royalties" and Web
> broadcasters up in arms about a recent federal
> decision to boost their performance royalty rate,
> the record companies and musicians have a strong hand.
>
> Broadcasters are already girding for the fight,
> expected to last more than a year. In a letter to
> lawmakers this month, the National Assn. of
> Broadcasters dubbed the royalties a "performance
> tax" that would upend the 70-year "mutually
> beneficial relationship" between radio stations and the recording
industry.
>
> "The existing system actually provides the
> epitome of fairness for all parties: free music
> for free promotion," wrote NAB President David Rehr.
>
> Performance royalties are collected from
> traditional radio stations in nearly all major
> industrialized countries, but U.S. musicians and
> record companies can't because there is no similar royalty on the
books here.
>
> "The time comes that we really have to do this,"
> said John Simson, executive director of
> SoundExchange, a group created by the recording
> industry to collect and distribute Internet and satellite music
royalties.
>
> For record labels and musicians, addressing the
> issue now is crucial because digital radio, now
> being rolled out, allows broadcasters to split a
> signal into several digital channels and play
> even more music exempt from performance royalties.
>
> Groups preparing to push Congress to change the
> law include the RIAA, the National Academy of
> Recording Arts and Sciences, the American
> Federation of Musicians and other organizations.
> The U.S. Copyright Office has long supported removing the exemption.
>
> The groups have a major ally in Rep. Howard L.
> Berman (D-Valley Village), who now chairs the
> House subcommittee dealing with intellectual
> property law. Berman is "actively contemplating"
> leading a legislative push to end the exemption.
>
> "Given the many different ways to promote music
> now that didn't exist as effectively when this
> original exemption was made," he said, "the logic
> of that I think is more dubious."
>
> Congress granted composers and publishers of
> music copyright protection in 1909. But the
> recording and radio industries were in their
> infancy, and the actual musical recordings were
> not covered. Congress extended limited copyright
> protection to musical performances in the 1970s
> to guard against an earlier form of piracy: the copying of records
and tapes.
>
> But by then, broadcasters were influential enough
> to snuff out any talk of making them pay
> musicians and recording companies for playing their music.
>
> "The old saying is the reason broadcasters don't
> pay a performance royalty is there's a radio
> station in every congressional district and a
> record company in three," said Chris Castle, a music industry lawyer.
>
> Broadcasters even successfully fought a group of
> singers and musicians led by Frank Sinatra in the
> late 1980s who tried to pressure Congress into
> changing the law. Broadcasters also prevailed in
> 1995, when Congress exempted them from new fees
> for digital recordings that everyone else had to pay.
>
> "Congress has always recognized that broadcasters
> generate enormous sums of revenue to record
> companies and artists in terms of airplay," said
> NAB Executive Vice President Dennis Wharton.
> Radio stations also have public-interest
> obligations that satellite and Internet
> broadcasters don't have to worry about, he said.
>
> Satellite radio, Internet broadcasters and cable
> television companies offering digital music
> channels now pay performance royalties. The
> recording industry and musician groups say it's
> time for traditional radio stations to pony up.
>
> "Most of the artists in the world are kind of
> middle-class cats, trying to piece together a
> living," said Jonatha Brooke, a singer-songwriter
> who is part of the Recording Artists Coalition
> advocacy group. "It's important to be recognized and paid for our work."
>
>
> ----------
> jim.puzzanghera@...
>

#5360 From: Michael Hallager <lpfm-list@...>
Date: Wed May 23, 2007 11:44 am
Subject:: pre emphasis
lpfm-list@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello-

Could someone please advise me what component values are necessary to obtain
50ms pre-emphasis?

Thanks in anticipation.

Michael

#5359 From: Eddie O'Strange <blue.smoke@...>
Date: Tue May 22, 2007 6:06 pm
Subject:: Artists & Labels Seek Royalties from US Radio
planet42nz
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Google Proposes Innovation in Radio Spectrum Auction:
By JOHN MARKOFF
The proposal calls on the F.C.C. to let companies allocate
radio spectrum using the same kind of real-time auction
that Google uses to sell ads.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/technology/22google.html?th&emc=th
______________________________________________________________
COPYRIGHT LOBBY FORMED:

WASHINGTON--Some of the staunchest advocates for
stricter copyright laws have formed a new alliance
designed to pressure Congress into preserving stronger
intellectual property rights.

The Copyright Alliance--which launched, complete with
electric-green and white T-shirts displaying its logo
at a morning Capitol Hill event here--consists of 29
national organizations and companies that purport to
represent 11 million workers in copyright-related
industries. Those members include the Recording
Industry Association of America, the Association of
American Publishers, the Motion Picture Association of
America, Microsoft, Viacom and Walt Disney.

The group's members aren't expected to agree on all
the nuances of policy debates, said Patrick Ross, the
alliance's executive director.

But according to a press release, they're all
committed to broad goals like promoting the "vital
role" of copyright in the U.S. economy and job market,
encouraging inclusion of copyright protection
requirements in international agreements, supporting
civil and criminal penalties for piracy, and
advocating against "diminishment" of copyright law.

As copyrighted works become ever more widely
distributed through digital means, those who own the
rights "still want to get paid," Ross said.

The group's formation drew applause from key
politicians who preside over copyright law changes,
including U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary
Committee Chairman John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Rep.
Howard Berman (D-Calif.), who heads a key House panel
that influences copyright laws.

Complete article at
news.zdnet.com
_____________________________________________________

MUSIC



Artists and Labels seek Royalties from Radio:

By Jim Puzzanghera, LATimes Staff Writer
May 21, 2007

WASHINGTON ­ With CD sales tumbling, record companies and musicians are looking at a new potential pot of money: royalties from broadcast radio stations.

For years, stations have paid royalties to composers and publishers when they played their songs. But they enjoy a federal exemption when paying the performers and record labels because, they argue, the airplay sells music.

Now, the Recording Industry Assn. of America and several artists' groups are getting ready to push Congress to repeal the exemption, a move that could generate hundreds of millions of dollars annually in new royalties.

Mary Wilson, who with Diana Ross and Florence Ballard formed the original Supremes, said the exemption was unfair and forced older musicians to continue touring to pay their bills.

"After so many years of not being compensated, it would be nice now at this late date to at least start," the 63-year-old Las Vegas resident said in Milwaukee, where she was performing at the Potawatomi Bingo Casino. "They've gotten 50-some years of free play. Now maybe it's time to pay up."

The decision to take on the volatile performance royalty issue again highlights the rough times the music industry is facing as listeners abandon compact discs for digital downloads, often listening to music shared with friends or obtained from file-sharing sites.

"The creation of music is suffering because of declining sales," said RIAA Chief Executive Mitch Bainwol. "We clearly have a more difficult time tolerating gaps in revenues that should be there."

It's not the first attempt to kill the exemption. In the past, politically powerful broadcasters beat back those efforts.

But with satellite and Internet radio forced to pay "public performance royalties" and Web broadcasters up in arms about a recent federal decision to boost their performance royalty rate, the record companies and musicians have a strong hand.

Broadcasters are already girding for the fight, expected to last more than a year. In a letter to lawmakers this month, the National Assn. of Broadcasters dubbed the royalties a "performance tax" that would upend the 70-year "mutually beneficial relationship" between radio stations and the recording industry.

"The existing system actually provides the epitome of fairness for all parties: free music for free promotion," wrote NAB President David Rehr.

Performance royalties are collected from traditional radio stations in nearly all major industrialized countries, but U.S. musicians and record companies can't because there is no similar royalty on the books here.

"The time comes that we really have to do this," said John Simson, executive director of SoundExchange, a group created by the recording industry to collect and distribute Internet and satellite music royalties.

For record labels and musicians, addressing the issue now is crucial because digital radio, now being rolled out, allows broadcasters to split a signal into several digital channels and play even more music exempt from performance royalties.

Groups preparing to push Congress to change the law include the RIAA, the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, the American Federation of Musicians and other organizations. The U.S. Copyright Office has long supported removing the exemption.

The groups have a major ally in Rep. Howard L. Berman (D-Valley Village), who now chairs the House subcommittee dealing with intellectual property law. Berman is "actively contemplating" leading a legislative push to end the exemption.

"Given the many different ways to promote music now that didn't exist as effectively when this original exemption was made," he said, "the logic of that I think is more dubious."

Congress granted composers and publishers of music copyright protection in 1909. But the recording and radio industries were in their infancy, and the actual musical recordings were not covered. Congress extended limited copyright protection to musical performances in the 1970s to guard against an earlier form of piracy: the copying of records and tapes.

But by then, broadcasters were influential enough to snuff out any talk of making them pay musicians and recording companies for playing their music.

"The old saying is the reason broadcasters don't pay a performance royalty is there's a radio station in every congressional district and a record company in three," said Chris Castle, a music industry lawyer.

Broadcasters even successfully fought a group of singers and musicians led by Frank Sinatra in the late 1980s who tried to pressure Congress into changing the law. Broadcasters also prevailed in 1995, when Congress exempted them from new fees for digital recordings that everyone else had to pay.

"Congress has always recognized that broadcasters generate enormous sums of revenue to record companies and artists in terms of airplay," said NAB Executive Vice President Dennis Wharton. Radio stations also have public-interest obligations that satellite and Internet broadcasters don't have to worry about, he said.

Satellite radio, Internet broadcasters and cable television companies offering digital music channels now pay performance royalties. The recording industry and musician groups say it's time for traditional radio stations to pony up.

"Most of the artists in the world are kind of middle-class cats, trying to piece together a living," said Jonatha Brooke, a singer-songwriter who is part of the Recording Artists Coalition advocacy group. "It's important to be recognized and paid for our work."


jim.puzzanghera@...

#5358 From: Matt Camp <matt@...>
Date: Mon May 21, 2007 7:53 pm
Subject:: New Indian station on north shore
mattcampnz
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Does anybody have any information regarding a new Indian/Hindi station
broadcasting on 107.7 from the North Shore in Auckland?

At this point I'm suspecting somewhere near Devonport.

I haven't yet caught any station ID, so if anyone can point me at a
contact there, I'd love to get in touch.

Cheers.

#5357 From: "Denis Wadsworth" <mxpress@...>
Date: Sat May 19, 2007 10:26 pm
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Help please with music track
walkingtheca...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [LPFM] Help please with music track

Yes! Yes!
That is the one.
Thanks for that info
Cheers

Michael Rowse <mike@valdusradio.co.nz> wrote:
Does this one sound familier?
 
 THE CHEERS - "Black Denim Trousers"

 (Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller)

He wore black denim trousers and motorcycle boots
And a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back
He had a hopped-up 'cycle that took off like a gun
That fool was the terror of Highway 101

Well, he never washed his face and he never combed his hair
He had axle grease embedded underneath his fingernails
On the muscle of his arm was a red tattoo
A picture of a heart saying "Mother, I love you"

He had a pretty girlfriend by the name of Mary Lou
But he treated her just like he treated all the rest
And everybody pitied her 'cause everybody knew
He loved that doggone motorcycle best

He wore black denim trousers and motorcycle boots
And a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back
He had a hopped-up 'cycle that took off like a gun
That fool was the terror of Highway 101

[Instrumental Interlude]

Mary Lou, poor girl, she pleaded and she begged him not to leave
She said "I've got a feeling if you ride tonight I'll grieve"
But her tears were shed in vain and her every word was lost
In the rumble of his engine and the smoke from his exhaust

Then he took off like the Devil and there was fire in his eyes
He said "I'll go a thousand miles before the sun can rise"
But he hit a screamin' diesel that was California-bound
And when they cleared the wreckage, all they found

Was his black denim trousers and motorcycle boots
And a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back
But they couldn't find the 'cycle that took off like a gun
And they never found the terror of Highway 101


How would you spend $50,000 to create a more sustainable environment in Australia? Go to Yahoo!7 Answers and share your idea.


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.5/812 - Release Date: 5/19/2007 1:52 PM

#5356 From: Brian Gallagher <brianislay@...>
Date: Sat May 19, 2007 9:54 pm
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Help please with music track
brianislay
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Yes! Yes!
That is the one.
Thanks for that info
Cheers

Michael Rowse <mike@...> wrote:
Does this one sound familier?
 
 THE CHEERS - "Black Denim Trousers"

 (Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller)

He wore black denim trousers and motorcycle boots
And a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back
He had a hopped-up 'cycle that took off like a gun
That fool was the terror of Highway 101

Well, he never washed his face and he never combed his hair
He had axle grease embedded underneath his fingernails
On the muscle of his arm was a red tattoo
A picture of a heart saying "Mother, I love you"

He had a pretty girlfriend by the name of Mary Lou
But he treated her just like he treated all the rest
And everybody pitied her 'cause everybody knew
He loved that doggone motorcycle best

He wore black denim trousers and motorcycle boots
And a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back
He had a hopped-up 'cycle that took off like a gun
That fool was the terror of Highway 101

[Instrumental Interlude]

Mary Lou, poor girl, she pleaded and she begged him not to leave
She said "I've got a feeling if you ride tonight I'll grieve"
But her tears were shed in vain and her every word was lost
In the rumble of his engine and the smoke from his exhaust

Then he took off like the Devil and there was fire in his eyes
He said "I'll go a thousand miles before the sun can rise"
But he hit a screamin' diesel that was California-bound
And when they cleared the wreckage, all they found

Was his black denim trousers and motorcycle boots
And a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back
But they couldn't find the 'cycle that took off like a gun
And they never found the terror of Highway 101


How would you spend $50,000 to create a more sustainable environment in Australia? Go to Yahoo!7 Answers and share your idea.

#5355 From: Brian Gallagher <brianislay@...>
Date: Sat May 19, 2007 9:52 pm
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Help please with music track
brianislay
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Michael.
 
Yes I know Vaughn Monroe (Gee it rhymes!) wouldnt have thought its his thing however yes please I am game to try it.
Thanks.
Brian

Michael Rowse <mike@...> wrote:
I just had a hunt through my wife's CD collection and found a copy by a guy called Vaughn Monroe. Let me know if you would like it.



How would you spend $50,000 to create a more sustainable environment in Australia? Go to Yahoo!7 Answers and share your idea.

#5354 From: "Michael Rowse" <mike@...>
Date: Sat May 19, 2007 7:28 pm
Subject:: Help please with music track
valdusradio
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I just had a hunt through my wife's CD collection and found a copy by a guy called Vaughn Monroe. Let me know if you would like it.


#5353 From: "Michael Rowse" <mike@...>
Date: Sat May 19, 2007 7:02 pm
Subject:: Help please with music track
valdusradio
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Does this one sound familier?
 
 THE CHEERS - "Black Denim Trousers"

 (Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller)

He wore black denim trousers and motorcycle boots
And a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back
He had a hopped-up 'cycle that took off like a gun
That fool was the terror of Highway 101

Well, he never washed his face and he never combed his hair
He had axle grease embedded underneath his fingernails
On the muscle of his arm was a red tattoo
A picture of a heart saying "Mother, I love you"

He had a pretty girlfriend by the name of Mary Lou
But he treated her just like he treated all the rest
And everybody pitied her 'cause everybody knew
He loved that doggone motorcycle best

He wore black denim trousers and motorcycle boots
And a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back
He had a hopped-up 'cycle that took off like a gun
That fool was the terror of Highway 101

[Instrumental Interlude]

Mary Lou, poor girl, she pleaded and she begged him not to leave
She said "I've got a feeling if you ride tonight I'll grieve"
But her tears were shed in vain and her every word was lost
In the rumble of his engine and the smoke from his exhaust

Then he took off like the Devil and there was fire in his eyes
He said "I'll go a thousand miles before the sun can rise"
But he hit a screamin' diesel that was California-bound
And when they cleared the wreckage, all they found

Was his black denim trousers and motorcycle boots
And a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back
But they couldn't find the 'cycle that took off like a gun
And they never found the terror of Highway 101

#5352 From: Brian Gallagher <brianislay@...>
Date: Sat May 19, 2007 9:46 am
Subject:: Help please with music track
brianislay
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I wish to identify and locate a song out of the fifties.It startswith 'He wore black leather jacket and motor cycle boots,a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back.He rode a hotrod cycle that took off like a gun,that fool was a terror of highway one-o-one.or something to that effect.
Can someone please help me with the name and the group who sang it?
Better still if anyone has it would you be able to email it to me as I need it for a prog.
Thanks in anticipation.


How would you spend $50,000 to create a more sustainable environment in Australia? Go to Yahoo!7 Answers and share your idea.

#5351 From: "Denis Wadsworth" <mxpress@...>
Date: Thu May 17, 2007 7:09 pm
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Re: Song wanted
walkingtheca...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Richard
Yes I still do want the song, thank you. It will get played on air but not very much.
 
Cheers
 
Denis
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 6:02 PM
Subject: [LPFM] Re: Song wanted

Why would you want to PLAY the Blue Monkey on air?
The CD works much better as a coffee coaster.

If you really want it, email me.

RP

--- In LPFM_Radio@yahoogroups.com.au, "walkingthecat2002"
<mxpress@...> wrote:
>
> Can anyone help me get hold of a copy of a song? The song is 'The blue
> Monkey" sung by Suzanne paul.
>
> I spoke to her about it last friday night at the Shortland street 15
> year party and even she admitted that she didn't have a copy. When i
> told her that i wanted it so i could play it on my local radio station,
> after a cackle that would have made any egg laying chicken proud she
> said ' well it is NZ music month after all"
>
> So, if anyone can help me with a copy, i will also forward it on to her.
>
> Any help appreciated
>
> Cheers
> Denis
>
> 106.7 FM
> New Plymouth
>


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM

#5350 From: "Richard Phelps" <richard@...>
Date: Thu May 17, 2007 6:02 am
Subject:: Re: Song wanted
customcuts_nz
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Why would you want to PLAY the Blue Monkey on air?
The CD works much better as a coffee coaster.

If you really want it, email me.

RP

--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "walkingthecat2002"
<mxpress@...> wrote:
>
> Can anyone help me get hold of a copy of a song?  The song is 'The blue
> Monkey" sung by Suzanne paul.
>
> I spoke to her about it last friday night at the Shortland street 15
> year party and even she admitted that she didn't have a copy.   When i
> told her that i wanted it so i could play it on my local radio station,
> after a cackle that would have made any egg laying chicken proud she
> said ' well it is NZ music month after all"
>
> So, if anyone can help me with a copy, i will also forward it on to her.
>
> Any help appreciated
>
> Cheers
> Denis
>
> 106.7 FM
> New Plymouth
>

#5349 From: "Gavin Stephens" <gstephens@...>
Date: Wed May 16, 2007 9:54 pm
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Life FM using LPFM frequencies in Dunedin area
kiwi_rock_24
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Oh and Chris is on 107.3, not 88.3.
 
Whether Peter still has anything on the old 88.3 I'm not sure, all I know is that he puts Chris on 107.3 up on Mosgiel.
 
Cheers,
Gavin.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [LPFM] Life FM using LPFM frequencies in Dunedin area

Hey Geoff, how's things up there? How did you go with looking at building a phone hybrid, I think that's what you were up to when we caught up while passing through JayCar a few months back?
 
Do you still have Chris's personal email? If so, contact him, as he's currently in contact with the person I think you need to pass you comments on to.
 
BTW, Chris' 107.3 Classic Gold from down here in Invervagas is now on the former Life Mosgiel LPFM frequency up there. The Tieri Herald published an article I think last week about Chris and Peter. Peter being the man I think you want to talk or put you in touch with the right people.
 
Best to email Chris though first off list.
 
Cheers,
Gavin,
Invercargill.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:48 PM
Subject: [LPFM] Life FM using LPFM frequencies in Dunedin area

Hi There
Does anyone know how to contact the Life FM people?

Life FM now has a full powered FM frequency in the Dunedin area
(94.2fm). They used to use 88.3 in mosgiel and 107.3 in the North
Dunedin area.

They started on the 94.2 frequency in March or there abouts. But there
LPFM frequency was still being used by them a few weeks afterwards. I
think they may have shut down for a while but it seems to be going again.

Does anyone know who to contact about it? (Apart from the obvious Radio
Spectrum Management) Because it is tying up a frequency that could be
used by another operator in Dunedin/Mosgiel. I think a guy that has a
computer shop in Mosgiel might have something to do with it? The 88.3
transmission is "Splattering into the south Dunedin area on anything
from 88.1 through to 88.5 fm (in stereo) so their transmitter must be
wide banded or over modulated?

Cheers
Geoff Barkman


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 2007-05-15 10:47 a.m.


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 2007-05-15 10:47 a.m.

#5348 From: "Gavin Stephens" <gstephens@...>
Date: Wed May 16, 2007 9:46 pm
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Life FM using LPFM frequencies in Dunedin area
kiwi_rock_24
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey Geoff, how's things up there? How did you go with looking at building a phone hybrid, I think that's what you were up to when we caught up while passing through JayCar a few months back?
 
Do you still have Chris's personal email? If so, contact him, as he's currently in contact with the person I think you need to pass you comments on to.
 
BTW, Chris' 107.3 Classic Gold from down here in Invervagas is now on the former Life Mosgiel LPFM frequency up there. The Tieri Herald published an article I think last week about Chris and Peter. Peter being the man I think you want to talk or put you in touch with the right people.
 
Best to email Chris though first off list.
 
Cheers,
Gavin,
Invercargill.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:48 PM
Subject: [LPFM] Life FM using LPFM frequencies in Dunedin area

Hi There
Does anyone know how to contact the Life FM people?

Life FM now has a full powered FM frequency in the Dunedin area
(94.2fm). They used to use 88.3 in mosgiel and 107.3 in the North
Dunedin area.

They started on the 94.2 frequency in March or there abouts. But there
LPFM frequency was still being used by them a few weeks afterwards. I
think they may have shut down for a while but it seems to be going again.

Does anyone know who to contact about it? (Apart from the obvious Radio
Spectrum Management) Because it is tying up a frequency that could be
used by another operator in Dunedin/Mosgiel. I think a guy that has a
computer shop in Mosgiel might have something to do with it? The 88.3
transmission is "Splattering into the south Dunedin area on anything
from 88.1 through to 88.5 fm (in stereo) so their transmitter must be
wide banded or over modulated?

Cheers
Geoff Barkman


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 2007-05-15 10:47 a.m.

#5347 From: Michael Hallager <lpfm-list@...>
Date: Wed May 16, 2007 11:23 am
Subject:: Re: [LPFM] Life FM using LPFM frequencies in Dunedin area
lpfm-list@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Give Radio Rhema in Auckland a call.

As far as I know Life FM is managed by Aaron Ironside - a former Radio Hauraki
DJ turned preacher.
Failing that Rob Holding at Radio Rhema runs a LPFM station in the next suburb
to here. He'll probably know something.

> Hi There
> Does anyone know how to contact the Life FM people?
>
> Life FM now has a full powered FM frequency in the Dunedin area
> (94.2fm). They used to use 88.3 in mosgiel and 107.3 in the North
> Dunedin area.
>
> They started on the 94.2 frequency in March or there abouts. But there
> LPFM  frequency was still being used by them a few weeks afterwards. I
> think they may have shut down for a while but it seems to be going again.
>
> Does anyone know who to contact about it? (Apart from the obvious Radio
> Spectrum Management) Because it is tying up a frequency that could be
> used by another operator in Dunedin/Mosgiel. I think a guy that has a
> computer shop in Mosgiel might have something to do with it? The 88.3
> transmission is "Splattering into the south Dunedin area on anything
> from 88.1 through to 88.5 fm (in stereo) so their transmitter must be
> wide banded or over modulated?
>
> Cheers
> Geoff Barkman

--
Michael Hallager
net trust ltd
www.networkstuff.co.nz p.09 839-1000


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