Just wondering whether anyone could please give me the laymans low-down on STLs?
Supposing I'm looking to move my Tx to a higher location that's, say, 5-12k's
away as the crow flies from my current studio location.
I've heard stuff about modifing a 2.4GHz AV sender by putting a high gain Rx &
TX aerial (grid or otherwise) on the respective AV units. I understand these
will work over short distances, but how about over longer distances?
Would it be better to buy a purpose built unit? If so, what would be an adequate
power output, where would one buy one, and roughly how much would they cost?
I notice there are some 'free' frequencies in the 2.4GHz range, but would it
also be better to get a licenced one? If so, what is the process and how much?
Herb wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just wondering whether anyone could please give me the laymans
> low-down on STLs?
>
> Supposing I'm looking to move my Tx to a higher location that's, say,
> 5-12k's away as the crow flies from my current studio location.
>
> I've heard stuff about modifing a 2.4GHz AV sender by putting a high
> gain Rx & TX aerial (grid or otherwise) on the respective AV units. I
> understand these will work over short distances, but how about over
> longer distances?
>
> Would it be better to buy a purpose built unit? If so, what would be
> an adequate power output, where would one buy one, and roughly how
> much would they cost?
>
> I notice there are some 'free' frequencies in the 2.4GHz range, but
> would it also be better to get a licenced one? If so, what is the
> process and how much?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Herb.
>
> _
Licensed is a safer alternative as far as excluding yourself from as much interference as possible.
I'm going on 5 years ago when I used a mono 460MHz channel, It cost somewhere near $400-$500 to engineer a license then a small annual fee of about $100 or something like that. Things might have changed since though.
I'd also be interested to know what it costs for a 900MHz channel these days?
5-12KM's you won't need much power for a licensed STL. We used a 2W output in to low loss coax (about 20 metres LMR-400) then in to a 12~16dBi gain yagi antenna at both ends, used to get us about 20KM's - skimmed over a hill top to a non line of site receiver hence the need for 400MHz channel. 900MHz mono/stereo etc... would obviously be more picky about line of site.
You can modify analogue A/V senders but you're living with the chances of interference. Especially if the receive antenna is pointing over a township. The max you can output on analogue is 1W, keeping in mind most of the transmitters energy is spent on video output?
There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo, 20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a 50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after the antenna they run extremely well.
Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...)
Depending on your spectrum use nearby I think there's a few other options. I think Ross still uses something down around 76MHz or something with an appropriate transmitter/receiver? It's a license free part of spectrum aswell, but again possible interference if it's not already in use to begin with.
Looking forward to others replies also on STL costs.
Just wondering whether anyone could please give me the laymans low-down on STLs?
Supposing I'm looking to move my Tx to a higher location that's, say, 5-12k's away as the crow flies from my current studio location.
I've heard stuff about modifing a 2.4GHz AV sender by putting a high gain Rx & TX aerial (grid or otherwise) on the respective AV units. I understand these will work over short distances, but how about over longer distances?
Would it be better to buy a purpose built unit? If so, what would be an adequate power output, where would one buy one, and roughly how much would they cost?
I notice there are some 'free' frequencies in the 2.4GHz range, but would it also be better to get a licenced one? If so, what is the process and how much?
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being
modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error
correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo,
20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are
running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since
they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a
50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW
going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after
the antenna they run extremely well.
>
> Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I
forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That
seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver
being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful
enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping
but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and
require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...)
>
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for
Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link
please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know if they are analogue or
digital?
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo, 20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a 50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after the antenna they run extremely well. > > Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...) >
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know if they are analogue or digital?
I'll go hunt out the link for the maker of the insides, it's here somewhere.
----- Original Message -----
From: Herb <mailto:bheath.nz@...>
To: LPFM_Radio@... <mailto:LPFM_Radio@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [LPFM] STLs..
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being
modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error
correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo,
20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are
running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since
they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a
50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW
going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after
the antenna they run extremely well.
>
> Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I
forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That
seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver
being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful
enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping
but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and
require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...)
>
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for
Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link
please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know if they are analogue or
digital?
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo, 20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a 50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after the antenna they run extremely well. > > Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...) >
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know if they are analogue or digital?
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo, 20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a 50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after the antenna they run extremely well. > > Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...) >
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know if they are analogue or digital?
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo, 20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a 50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after the antenna they run extremely well. > > Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...) >
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know if they are analogue or digital?
As far as 900 MHz frequencies go you might be hard pushed to get one. Certainly
in Auckland there are none available. Other areas of the country you might be
lucky.
RSM will only issue mono licences in the 400 MHz STL band, or composite if the
proposed path is a difficult one. Each case is determined on an individual
basis.
Links on 2.4 GHz work - a friend of mine has built a digital link which he has
trialled over a distance of 25 km with excellent results.
As per previous posts, the units can channel hop if there is interference,
although with 4 watts EIRP there doesn't tend to be much.
Analog senders are a waste of time. They suffer from poor bandwidth due to
noise. Trust me, been down this road. Digital sender units are the only way to
go.
Licenced frequencies will always be better, because you are buying a small piece
of protection along with the frequency. Obviously your costs go up, not only for
the frequency, but for the gear to run on it. Second-hand STLs in the 400 or 900
MHz bands are hard to find.
People who have good link gear tend not to part with it as it can be re-used
elsewhere or leased out to another station.
For up to date costs on licenced services, just call your local branch of RSM -
they will have the latest figures. I avoid all that and concentrate on
engineering.
--- In LPFM_Radio@..., "Herb" <bheath.nz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just wondering whether anyone could please give me the laymans low-down on
STLs?
>
> Supposing I'm looking to move my Tx to a higher location that's, say, 5-12k's
away as the crow flies from my current studio location.
>
> I've heard stuff about modifing a 2.4GHz AV sender by putting a high gain Rx &
TX aerial (grid or otherwise) on the respective AV units. I understand these
will work over short distances, but how about over longer distances?
>
> Would it be better to buy a purpose built unit? If so, what would be an
adequate power output, where would one buy one, and roughly how much would they
cost?
>
> I notice there are some 'free' frequencies in the 2.4GHz range, but would it
also be better to get a licenced one? If so, what is the process and how much?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Herb.
>
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo, 20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a 50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after the antenna they run extremely well. > > Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...) >
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know if they are analogue or digital?
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo, 20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a 50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after the antenna they run extremely well. > > Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...) >
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know if they are analogue or digital?
I have one of these units (DAS-100) and generally it works just
fine. I use it to send a signal from one room to another where it is impractical
to run cables. The distance is about 10 metres.
What I have noticed however is that the signal sometimes drops
out, usually just for a fraction of a second. If I am recording, there is often
but not always a very sharp and short spike associated with the dropout. It’s
audible as a tiny click. The dropout is enough to ruin a good recording, and
when it happens it might occur 3 or 4 times over a minute, but then not again
for an hour or more.
I wonder if the problem is caused by some sort of interference.
There are no cordless phones in the vicinity, though there is a wireless network
in the vicinity. Maybe it’s a shortcoming of the unit, or perhaps I have a faulty
one. Hard to tell. I put up with the problem but it would be interesting to
know if anyone else using these has experienced the same.
Cheers,
Barrie
From: LPFM_Radio@...
[mailto:LPFM_Radio@...] On Behalf Of Gavin Stephens Sent: Friday, 31 July 2009 5:50 p.m. To: LPFM_Radio@... Subject: Re: [LPFM] STLs..
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo, 20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a 50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after the antenna they run extremely well. > > Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...) >
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know i f they are analogue or digital?
Cheers,
Herb.
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 05:58:00
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo, 20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a 50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after the antenna they run extremely well. > > Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...) >
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know i f they are analogue or digital?
Cheers,
Herb.
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG -www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 05:58:00
Not any cheaper one its landed really and by the time you worry
about sourcing compliant power supplies it will be more expensive.
From: LPFM_Radio@...
[mailto:LPFM_Radio@...] On Behalf Of Edwin Hermann Sent: Saturday, 1 August 2009 12:27 a.m. To: LPFM_Radio@... Subject: Re: [LPFM] STLs..
These one's are digital with forward error correction and audio only. Being digital means 4 Watts E.I.R.P after a gain antenna vs an analogue video sender with a legal limit of 1W E.I.R.P. Then take away what the video chews up etc... on an analogue unit.
I did get mine for cheaper than that though on Trade Me at the time, I think I payed around $40 second hand.
> There's some digital audio senders around @ 2.4GHz that work well after being modified to have antenna out sockets with grid antennas. They do forward error correction, sound pretty transparent (uncompressed 16-bit 44,100Hz stereo, 20Hz-20KHz) and nothing else seems to work on the same channel when they are running. However it's still open to interference. They do let you use 4W since they are digitally modulated. I tried one over 3KM's non line of site in a 50,000 population town, didn't suffer any interference even with only about 10mW going in to a grid antenna. With a booster on the right cable to get 4W after the antenna they run extremely well. > > Mosgiel on the back of Dunedin are using one, a DAS-100's digital sender, I forget the PCB board numbers now my other one is been tested elsewhere. That seems to still be working for them fine in the 2.4GHz band despite the receiver being able to change channel automatically if someone else sent it a powerful enough digital signal to it. There's newer one's that also use frequency hopping but I haven't personally tried them yet. However again, open to interference and require some blind setup work (no level metering etc...) >
Thanks Gavin, very informative.
What you have written above interests me most. I just tried a google search for Das-100, but can't find anything relevent. Any cjance you could send me a link please?
There are a few AV senders on trade me, how do you know i f they are analogue or digital?
Cheers,
Herb.
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG -www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 05:58:00
I might get my old one back one of these days Mr chrisd :o)
I'll be sure to post when more show up on Trade Me. Actually Chris you obviously have his email, can you ask if he imports/sells these since that was a new unit?
It could be a bluetooth device nearby, just a possibility. I know bluetooth just jumps over anything that is already transmitting.
I tried the DAS-100 along side my Wi-Fi gear and found the Wi-Fi bridge stopped rather than the DAS-100. I had it running in to about 5 meters of RG213 in to a 19dBi antenna at one end, the other a 10 metre CA-400 cable in to a 24dBi antenna. The path about 3KM's not line of sight but not very obstructed either. The only interference I had was on one specific channel with the microwave oven on near the receiver.
That's where the newer boards by elansat.com which I haven't used yet, also do freq' hopping, that would be the bees knees.
I have one of these units (DAS-100) and generally it works just fine. I use it to send a signal from one room to another where it is impractical to run cables. The distance is about 10 metres.
What I have noticed however is that the signal sometimes drops out, usually just for a fraction of a second. If I am recording, there is often but not always a very sharp and short spike associated with the dropout. It’s audible as a tiny click. The dropout is enough to ruin a good recording, and when it happens it might occur 3 or 4 times over a minute, but then not again for an hour or more.
I wonder if the problem is caused by some sort of interference. There are no cordless phones in the vicinity, though there is a wireless network in the vicinity. Maybe it’s a shortcoming of the unit, or perhaps I have a faulty one. Hard to tell. I put up with the problem but it would be interesting to know if anyone else using these has experienced the same.
Cheers,
Barrie
From: LPFM_Radio@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:LPFM_Radio@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Gavin Stephens Sent: Friday, 31 July 2009 5:50 p.m. To: LPFM_Radio@yahoogroups.com.au Subject: Re: [LPFM] STLs..
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