Sorry I've been so quiet everybody, I had gastric banding surgery in
Mid October and have been staying at my mum & dad's, and then when I
got home, got a bit unwell so I just shutdown for a while.

Please don't forget to keep posting, good bad or indiffernt your
thoughts and feelings matter.

Big hugs to you all

Lea xxxxxx

Pettina, I'm remembering your little princess Mercy Grace today on her
anniversary.  There must've been many mixed emotions for you all
today, I hope the day passed gently for you and your family.

Sending my hugs and love

lea xxxxxxx

Heartfelt congratulations to Pettina and family on the birth of their
son Nathanial John, what joyful news, can't wait to see some photos of
your little rainbow baby.

Lea xxxxxx

Hi everyone,
I received the following SMS from Pettina this morning about her baby
boy born last night and she's asked me to pass the news on to you all...

"We proudly welcome Nathaniel John Beves. Born 2.11.08 at 23:33, 51cm,
3.35 kg. Mum, dad, big sister and baby boy doing well. Luv John and
Pettina."

Today is Mercy's first anniversary, so I'm sure she'd appreciate all
your thought and prayers today.

Wow vanessa
1 month. It has gone by fast.
Mercys first birthday was the same. All of a sudden it was here.
Where did the year go. I can still remember all the small things
from this time last year and it is soo bizarre.


--- In as_ap@..., "Vanessa Murphy"
<chrisandvanessamurphy@...> wrote:
>
> Grief is a strange thing, isn't it? One day I feel totally fine
and
> wonder what an earth has happened! Other days I am paralysed to do
> anything and feel completely lost, without consciously
understanding
> why. Some days I want to cry so badly and the tears just won't
come.
> Other days, the smallest thing breaks me down.
> I have been following a blog written by a lady in America who had
a
> stillbirth just over a year ago. Today she posted about how they
> spent their daughter's first birthday. Wow, it brought me to
tears.
> It is so wonderful to share in other people's grief- it had helped
me
> so much to express my own grief and face my own feelings about
> Matthew.
> Yesterday I spent the day with a friend and talked about how I
wanted
> to be different now – I am not the same person, I want to be
changed
> by this. My friend let me show her some pictures of Matthew
straight
> after he was born. I was so proud to be able to show off my
beautiful
> baby! She had also met him several hours after he died. It has
been a
> wonderful thing to have friends who did get to meet Matthew and
hold
> him and have their own memories of him, which they now share with
me.
> Yesterday was 1 month since he was born (15th Sept 08). So far the
> Mondays we have passed since then have been more emotional for me
> (we've named them "Matthew Monday" and go to his grave then), so
the
> first "15th" wasn't so hard. One dear friend remembered and sent
me a
> message. But it got me thinking about the future months that will
> pass all too quickly.
>

Grief is a strange thing, isn't it? One day I feel totally fine and
wonder what an earth has happened! Other days I am paralysed to do
anything and feel completely lost, without consciously understanding
why. Some days I want to cry so badly and the tears just won't come.
Other days, the smallest thing breaks me down.
I have been following a blog written by a lady in America who had a
stillbirth just over a year ago. Today she posted about how they
spent their daughter's first birthday. Wow, it brought me to tears.
It is so wonderful to share in other people's grief- it had helped me
so much to express my own grief and face my own feelings about
Matthew.
Yesterday I spent the day with a friend and talked about how I wanted
to be different now – I am not the same person, I want to be changed
by this. My friend let me show her some pictures of Matthew straight
after he was born. I was so proud to be able to show off my beautiful
baby! She had also met him several hours after he died. It has been a
wonderful thing to have friends who did get to meet Matthew and hold
him and have their own memories of him, which they now share with me.
Yesterday was 1 month since he was born (15th Sept 08). So far the
Mondays we have passed since then have been more emotional for me
(we've named them "Matthew Monday" and go to his grave then), so the
first "15th" wasn't so hard. One dear friend remembered and sent me a
message. But it got me thinking about the future months that will
pass all too quickly.

Hi Vanessa

I also had genetic counselling. It involved no tests but rather they
take full family history and help see if there is a higher risk than
normal of having another anencephaly baby. I found it useful in
helping me explain to others how the condition occurs. It helped
John and I understand alot better and like Leigh said ease some
guilt.

The genetic counsellor recommended some non genetic tests to be done
before falling again due to some low levels i experienced after
Bella. He encouraged not TTC again after Mery until these were
within a normal range.

How are things going for you??
--- In as_ap@..., "Leigh" <bbuddies@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Vanessa,
>
> I was also 'encouraged' to do genetic counselling, and I'm glad I
did
> as it did ease my guilt.  Basically, I wanted to make sure that it
> wasn't 'me' that caused Tyson's condition and death.
>
> I can't remember if there were any tests, but I know the Dr
assessed my
> situation and past medical records, and I sat and answered
questions
> for an hour or so.  I also had the chance to ask questions.
>
> The conclusion was that there was no specific reason for Tyson's
> anencephaly.  I had been taking folate, and it was either faulty
(as a
> Pan Pharmeceutical brand), or not being absorbed by my body
properly,
> so therefore the risk of any future children being afflicted was
> minimal.
>
> I was encouraged to increase my dosage of folate for all future
> pregnancies to 5mg, instead of the normal 5mcg, but other than
that I
> was 'normal'.  I received a written report for my records.
>
> I would say, yes, do it,  to ease your mind, and also to empower
you
> with knowledge to use if you decide to have any more children.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Leigh
> xx
>

Hi Vanessa,

I was also 'encouraged' to do genetic counselling, and I'm glad I did
as it did ease my guilt.  Basically, I wanted to make sure that it
wasn't 'me' that caused Tyson's condition and death.

I can't remember if there were any tests, but I know the Dr assessed my
situation and past medical records, and I sat and answered questions
for an hour or so.  I also had the chance to ask questions.

The conclusion was that there was no specific reason for Tyson's
anencephaly.  I had been taking folate, and it was either faulty (as a
Pan Pharmeceutical brand), or not being absorbed by my body properly,
so therefore the risk of any future children being afflicted was
minimal.

I was encouraged to increase my dosage of folate for all future
pregnancies to 5mg, instead of the normal 5mcg, but other than that I
was 'normal'.  I received a written report for my records.

I would say, yes, do it,  to ease your mind, and also to empower you
with knowledge to use if you decide to have any more children.

Hope this helps.

Leigh
xx

Hi everyone,
I am wondering if anyone could give me some feedback on the process of
genetic counselling- has anyone had this done? What does it involve?
Were specific genetic tests done? Did you find it useful? Any other
thoughts on this would be appreciated. My GP asked if I was interested
in seeing a genetic counsellor and I said no, but now am wondering a
bit more about it. I guess I figured it wouldn't change what I
would "do"  - I would still like to have another baby one day, and
would still make the choice to continue a pregnancy with anencephaly,
should that happen again. But, I guess I wondered whether something
useful may still come out of seeing a genetic counsellor.
Thanks so much,
Vanessa

Hi everyone,
I came across some new research on anencephaly today and thought some
of you may be interested.
This link should take you to a news article on it.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/125007.php
Some studies have been done in mice suggesting that a certain gene may
be responsible for an anecephaly-like condition in mice which causes
the embryo to stop developing on day 10 of gestation (which is about
half way through the mouse pregnancy) because the brain had not
developed. Although I like to keep in mind that mice are not humans and
therefore the research done on these animals cannot be directly
translated, it was a very thorough study and certainly the
most "hopeful" in understanding anencephaly from a scientific
perspective that I have seen in a long time.
Vanessa

Liz.
Im soo glad you decided to post.
Ive been thinking of you alot and what you (we are feeling). I must
admit id like to avoid a ceasar. Bella is too full on and John cant
take much time off work.
I had to go to the hospital last night to have the little man
checked. He is doing ok. Just giving his mamma a scare. While i was
there i heard 2 babies be born, healthy cries and all and i was able
to imagine a healthy baby in my arms or in one of those little
hospital cradles and it was such a refreshing thought. Blankets
wrapped all tight around him with a little blue beanie on his head.
I could almost smell him.
Dont get me wrong it hasnt allayed my fears greatly but i realised
how powerful just a single positive thought amongst the chaos of
emotions is. I felt good for a few minutes.
I also have found my new midwife last week to help with some of the
fear factor. Im just sorry you are yet to recieve great care from
your local Hospital.
Im here if you need to rebound.

And yes it is getting close to your little ones angel day. Your
emotions must be flying high. I know mine are. Mercy's is November 3.

Thinking of you lots

Pettina

--- In as_ap@..., Lea Coleman <leannec72@...> wrote:
>
> Liz, firstly, I probably did, we've all been so sick in this
house, I may have missed a lot that was going on, I'll go in search
and make sure when I get a chance love.
>  
> Secondly, I agree that your fears are very natural, I too had
great fears..but in the opposite, that I'd have another c-section.
In the end I did have another c-section and my fears were put to
rest when the procedure was nothing much like the previous one I'd
had.
>  
> I had feared that if Arden wasn't out of me with the minimum of
fuss something would go wrong.  I'm glad I had him the way I did,
and now realise that although my fears were normal and quite ok,
they were nothing but negative energy.
>  
> I know how much easier it is to say than to do, but please, try
your heart out to relax into this decision, be guided by your heart,
your head and your medical professionals too.  Don't let anyone
bully you into making anything but the choice right for you and your
precious rainbow baby.  If you want a c-section with a cherry on
top you see to it that you get it.
>  
> In my experience, bereaved mums are given a great deal of
consideration when having subsequent babies and you need to stress
upon them your emotional needs and how important they are. 
>  
>
>  
> Lea xxxxxx
> Mum to Sage, Nara, angel baby ~Ben~ and rainbow baby Arden
> Give sorrow words; the grief that does not speak whispers the o'er-
fraught heart and bids it break.  ~William Shakespeare
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Elizabeth <epsmith@...>
> To: as_ap@...
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 October, 2008 3:26:23 PM
> Subject: [as_ap] Hi
>
> Hey every one,
> How are you all? Sorry for my absence lately. With every thing
that
> has happened over
> the past few weeks i haven't wanted to post any thing in here as
what
> i'm going through at the moment seems like nothing compared to
what
> poor Chris and Vanessa have been through over the past weeks.
>
> I done a post in huggies (not realising that Pettina was part of
the
> group)and she responded to my post which i must add has been a
great
> help, especially knowing that she is going through a similar thing
at
> the moment as well. Any way, this is what i wrote in
> huggies............
>
> I am currently 26wks pregnant with bub number 3 and this is going
to
> sound so stupid but i am absolutly petrified about giving birth.
Even
> though i have done it twice before with no worries and reasonably
> quick
> births (the 1st was 5hrs and the 2nd was 4hrs). Over the past
> 11months
> i have suffered alot of heart break. In novemeber last year i had
a
> medical termination at 14wks due to my little girl having a
terminal
> condition called anencephaly and then in March this year i had a
> miscarriage at 12wks, i then fell pregga's again straight away
with
> this bubba. I don't know what it is but just the thought of giving
> birth again is enough to scare me s***tless. I really want to have
a
> c-
> section this time but DH is totally against it. I guess i just
don't
> want any thing to go wrong. I just want my baby out and in my arms
> and
> to know that he is safe. I doubt that the hospital would give me a
> ceaser any way, especially when there is no medical reason why i
> should
> have one. I am torn between the 2 though. I think to myself about
the
> 6wks after the ceaser and not being able to do any thing compared
to
> being able to do every thing straight after the birth. AGRRRRRR,
what
> to do?????????????
>
> Basically, i am just scared that some thing else is going to go
wrong
> and I want to do every thing i possibly can to avoid that from
> happening and if that means having a ceaser then thats what i'll
do.
> I
> also think that since Angela's anniversary is coming up (10th of
> November) this might be playing a part in my anxiety. I just feel
so
> confused and emotional.
>
> As i said, my little dialemma is nothing compared to every thing
else
> that has happened in our group but i would still appreciate a
> responce
> if any one else has been in the same situation. Thanks heaps every
> one.
>
> Liz xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox
>
> P.S. Lea, did you get my e-mail i sent you a few weeks ago with
all
> of
> my details in it????????
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo!7 Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>       Make the switch to the world&#39;s best email. Get Yahoo!7
Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail
>

Hi Liz,

Your feelings are extremely justified and definately worth posting,
otherwise what would be the purpose of this group.  I just wanted to
say that my good friend was too scared to go through natural labour
(she is due early December) so she insisted to her doctors that she
wanted a caesarian and they said 'fine', so that is what she is
having.  She had an emergency caesar with her last baby and I think
she was too scared to go through the pain of labour this time
around.  So I say, do what you want to do.  If you want a caesar
then that is what the hospital has to do.  I can understand how
nervous you must be feeling and also with Angela's anniversary
coming (Isabell's is 6th dec) but I really hope you work through
your anxieties so that you can start to relax before you baby is due.

Take care of yourself
Jenny


--- In as_ap@..., "Elizabeth" <epsmith@...> wrote:
>
> Hey every one,
> How are you all? Sorry for my absence lately. With every thing
that
> has happened over
> the past few weeks i haven't wanted to post any thing in here as
what
> i'm going through at the moment seems like nothing compared to
what
> poor Chris and Vanessa have been through over the past weeks.
>
>  I done a post in huggies (not realising that Pettina was part of
the
> group)and she responded to my post which i must add has been a
great
> help, especially knowing that she is going through a similar thing
at
> the moment as well. Any way, this is what i wrote in
> huggies............
>
> I am currently 26wks pregnant with bub number 3 and this is going
to
> sound so stupid but i am absolutly petrified about giving birth.
Even
> though i have done it twice before with no worries and reasonably
> quick
> births (the 1st was 5hrs and the 2nd was 4hrs). Over the past
> 11months
> i have suffered alot of heart break. In novemeber last year i had
a
> medical termination at 14wks due to my little girl having a
terminal
> condition called anencephaly and then in March this year i had a
> miscarriage at 12wks, i then fell pregga's again straight away
with
> this bubba. I don't know what it is but just the thought of giving
> birth again is enough to scare me s***tless. I really want to have
a
> c-
> section this time but DH is totally against it. I guess i just
don't
> want any thing to go wrong. I just want my baby out and in my arms
> and
> to know that he is safe. I doubt that the hospital would give me a
> ceaser any way, especially when there is no medical reason why i
> should
> have one. I am torn between the 2 though. I think to myself about
the
> 6wks after the ceaser and not being able to do any thing compared
to
> being able to do every thing straight after the birth. AGRRRRRR,
what
> to do?????????????
>
> Basically, i am just scared that some thing else is going to go
wrong
> and I want to do every thing i possibly can to avoid that from
> happening and if that means having a ceaser then thats what i'll
do.
> I
> also think that since Angela's anniversary is coming up (10th of
> November) this might be playing a part in my anxiety. I just feel
so
> confused and emotional.
>
> As i said, my little dialemma is nothing compared to every thing
else
> that has happened in our group but i would still appreciate a
> responce
> if any one else has been in the same situation. Thanks heaps every
> one.
>
> Liz xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox
>
> P.S. Lea, did you get my e-mail i sent you a few weeks ago with
all
> of
> my details in it????????
>

Hey every one,
How are you all? Sorry for my absence lately. With every thing that
has happened over
the past few weeks i haven't wanted to post any thing in here as what
i'm going through at the moment seems like nothing compared to what
poor Chris and Vanessa have been through over the past weeks.

  I done a post in huggies (not realising that Pettina was part of the
group)and she responded to my post which i must add has been a great
help, especially knowing that she is going through a similar thing at
the moment as well. Any way, this is what i wrote in
huggies............

I am currently 26wks pregnant with bub number 3 and this is going to
sound so stupid but i am absolutly petrified about giving birth. Even
though i have done it twice before with no worries and reasonably
quick
births (the 1st was 5hrs and the 2nd was 4hrs). Over the past
11months
i have suffered alot of heart break. In novemeber last year i had a
medical termination at 14wks due to my little girl having a terminal
condition called anencephaly and then in March this year i had a
miscarriage at 12wks, i then fell pregga's again straight away with
this bubba. I don't know what it is but just the thought of giving
birth again is enough to scare me s***tless. I really want to have a
c-
section this time but DH is totally against it. I guess i just don't
want any thing to go wrong. I just want my baby out and in my arms
and
to know that he is safe. I doubt that the hospital would give me a
ceaser any way, especially when there is no medical reason why i
should
have one. I am torn between the 2 though. I think to myself about the
6wks after the ceaser and not being able to do any thing compared to
being able to do every thing straight after the birth. AGRRRRRR, what
to do?????????????

Basically, i am just scared that some thing else is going to go wrong
and I want to do every thing i possibly can to avoid that from
happening and if that means having a ceaser then thats what i'll do.
I
also think that since Angela's anniversary is coming up (10th of
November) this might be playing a part in my anxiety. I just feel so
confused and emotional.

As i said, my little dialemma is nothing compared to every thing else
that has happened in our group but i would still appreciate a
responce
if any one else has been in the same situation. Thanks heaps every
one.

Liz xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox

P.S. Lea, did you get my e-mail i sent you a few weeks ago with all
of
my details in it????????

Hey Lea,
I just saw your photo and I swear nearly every photo taken in our home
has these 'Orbs' in it.  Sometimes almost too many to count.  I
thought it was the camera but we have used up to 3 different cameras
and all have these in them.  It started after Matty's father passed
away so I assume most of them are him and now probably Isabell as
well.  At first I was extremely spooked but I have become so used to
them in photos that it is odd when they are'nt there.  I find them
somewhat comforting. I will post some of these photos when I get a
chance.  Thanks for sharing yours.
Take care all
Jenny

Vanessa
You are teaching me soo much at this point in my life. I am still to
talk to freely about Mercy's life and more importantly my feelings,
particularl the bad ones. The freedom with which you are epressing
yourself is so honourable and open and is becoming a real blessing
to me. i feel so many of the same things even now. (especially in
regards to the photos. It always seems like someone is missing these
days)
Lea, the same goes for you, you are so encouraging to all of us in
this group and i think i speak on behalf of all when i say THANK YOU.

--- In as_ap@..., Lea Coleman <leannec72@...> wrote:
>
> Vanessa that was an awesome message, I won't touch on everything
now as I am about to get ready to go to a party, but I wanted to
talk about the photos you took on your bushwalk.  Look closely at
all the photos you take from now on, you never know what you may
find,  I will post a photo of Nara on her 1st birthday party, you
will see what I'm talking about.  We have dozens of photos where I
truly believe Ben is present.......at first I freaked out, assumed
it was my camera and so on, then realised it was happening on 2
different cameras and just yesterday a friend of mine sent me a
photo from our multiple birth group where she too captured what she
thinks is Ben spending time with us all.  Sounds whacky I know, but
hey, never discount the powerful connection our angels have with
us.....and how dearly they love us and want to stay close.
>
>  
> Lea xxxxxx
> Mum to Sage, Nara, angel baby ~Ben~ and rainbow baby Arden
> Give sorrow words; the grief that does not speak whispers the o'er-
fraught heart and bids it break.  ~William Shakespeare
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Vanessa Murphy <chrisandvanessamurphy@...>
> To: as_ap@...
> Sent: Sunday, 5 October, 2008 9:37:13 PM
> Subject: [as_ap] Re: Matthew
>
> Dear Lea,
> Thank you so much for your long replies. I really appreciate your
> thoughts at this time.
> Over the last few days I have spent hours at the computer reading
> though all the posts to the group from the very first message. I
had
> actually never done this before - when I joined I just read the
> messages from that point on. It was great to catch up on who
everyone
> is and where they've been up to this point. It is really great
that
> you have put so much effort into this group, I can see how and why
it
> has helped so many people.
> I won't apologise anymore I promise!! I've also been reading a lot
of
> blogs about grief, particularly grief of mothers losing babies.
It's
> my way of exploring what I'm feeling at the moment and thinking
about
> Matthew all day.
> Wow, thanks for sharing about Ben's short life. It's amazing how
> similar and yet so different each of their lives has been. Matthew
> didn't cry either, but he also never opened his eyes (we had a
peek
> after he had died to check on their colour - they were blue), he
> never breathed properly, but his warmth - yes I remember this too.
> Even though I am away from Matthew's things at home - I actually
> brought with us his box that the hospital gave us which I
currently
> have his clothes in (the ones he wore after he was born, although
he
> was dressed in them after he died), and the photos I've had
developed
> so far and the book the midwives made up for us and a few other
> things including a teddy they gave us at the hospital. I just
> couldn't leave home without some things - I said to Chris - what
if
> there's a bushfire or something and everything of his is gone??!
Your
> idea to have something to wear on you is lovely. I definitely need
to
> have at least a photo in my wallet. I dropped in to tell our local
> baby health nurse at the chemist what had happened the other day,
and
> realised I didn't even have a photo on me that I could show her.
Oh
> well, these will be the things I can spend time getting together
> soon.
> I would definitely like to call you some time and chat in person.
You
> have been a huge support to me through your messages and this
group
> in general. I'll have to give Pettina a call soon too and maybe go
> back to visit her, since her bub is due so soon.
> Thanks also for your comments on "feeling too normal". I talked to
> Chris about it too, and he reassured me that it was OK to be
normal.
> On Friday we spent the day with some old friends of his, which
could
> have been quite a stressful time for me (they are pretty intense
> people!), but thankfully Friday was the first day that I was
feeling
> normal and also feeling that it was OK to feel normal, so I ended
up
> dealing with it all pretty well. I am thankful to God that those
days
> come when I need them too, and understand that I can't expect to
feel
> on top of things all the time at the moment (if ever again!).
> I haven't checked out the SIDS and Kids forum yet, but I had
already
> made contact with the Newcastle SIDS and Kids branch. They were
> fantastic - I went in to the drop in centre about 3 weeks before
> Matthew was due and when they asked me if I had lost a baby and I
> said "I'm about to", they (3 lovely women) dropped everything to
talk
> to me and have a cuppa! I went back to see them a couple of weeks
> later and they also came to the hospital to do Matthew's hand and
> foot moulds for me. It is so good to know where to find support
and I
> have been blessed to meet such wonderful people (in person and on-
> line!).
> It's good to hear your thoughts on shelving your grief while
caring
> for Nara. I think I have learnt a lot about the value of each of
our
> children from you. At first glance I wrongly thought that perhaps
it
> would be easier for you to grieve when you had another baby to
look
> after - but of course Ben was as dear to you as any other child.
I'm
> glad you've helped me see and understand that, and I can imagine
now
> that that must have been such a difficult road for you with a
premmie
> baby to care for at the same time. You are a very strong woman.
Just
> as it is no easier for me because I have Anabelle, so it would be
no
> easier for you to lose Ben because you have other children.
> One other thought for tonight - the other day we were taking a
> bushwalk and I was taking pics of Chris and Anabelle. I felt
terrible
> that we could be taking pictures without Matthew and in our case,
our
> family photos had gone from Mum, Dad, Anabelle, to Mum, Dad,
> Anabelle - they seem so the same as before, and yet so different,
> because there was a whole 9 month period in our lives when Matthew
> was "with us". Not having him in our photos is how the rest of our
> lives on earth will be and that is so very sad. We haven't taken
many
> photos on this holiday, but in a way I think that is appropriate.
I
> will look back on them as a sad time when we were missing Matthew.
> How is your beautiful boy Arden?
> Love Vanessa
>
>
> --- In as_ap@..., Lea Coleman <leannec72@> wrote:
> >
> > You know Vanessa, the whole idea of this group is to have a
space
> for us to come and share our feelings, the dark ones, the happy
ones,
> it's not a place to spend time constantly on the up (although
if
> you're up that's great)...there's no pressure to be forever
positive
> or joyful, let it all out freely here, no more apologies...ok?
> >
> > I felt like a part of your emotional energy reading this post
from
> you, it's so familiar that I could tap into it easily, thank
you for
> welcoming me to tell you about my own memories of Ben's life
> because I definately went back to that short hour and 21
minutes
> reading about the time you spent with your beloved son.
> >
> > Ahhh, my hour 21 mins was spent very out of it which is really
> quite a tragedy, but I remember the feel of his breath,
although
> very faint on my cheek, the warmth of him...that's very fresh in
> my memory.  I clearly remember cleaning his little face of
vernix
> and wiping away a little dribble forming in the corner of his
lips, I
> felt like they were my own motherly gestures for my son so they
are
> important memories.  Like you and Chris, we weren' tsure
whether he
> had passed or not for a while.  Eventually I asked Ali if
Ben was
> still with us, he said "I don't know, I dont think so" so we asked
> the doctors to check and sure enough he has passed away.  I
don't
> recall a single sound being made by our son.  At the time he
was
> born I was experiencing all the horrid effects a c-section could
> bring, I was feeling everything, including pain, and I was
terrified
> beyond belief, I can remember asking "is he alive, is he
alive?"
> and he was......but there
> >  was no cry, I don't remember hearing his heart beat, I
couldn't
> move so I just lay with him on my chest staring into his
impossibly
> dark blue beautiful eyes....oh he has sapphire blue eyes they were
so
> lovely.  He was so calm and peaceful, there was no struggle for
> breath outwardly, his passing was so silent and gentle, I am
relieved
> about that to this day.  I hadn't dared consider what his final
> breaths would be like.
> >
> > Wow, I am visiting this stuff for the first time in a long
time,
> maybe ever in some cases?
> >
> > Ben died in his daddy's arms.  In the arms of a man
who had
> been scared at some stages to even look at his son and wasn't
sure
> he could handle being there.  To know that his father held
him
> lovingly gives me a lot of comfort, that he knew his dad's love at
> the end was so important in the grand scheme of our journey.
> >
> > I totally knew what you meant about your visit to see your
> friend's new baby last week.  I put off visiting friends
with live
> babies as long as I could.  It was perhaps a little different
for me
> from the perspective of losing one baby but having one to
bring
> home in Nara, because I did have a live baby myself perhaps I was
a
> little more protected from the stark contrast of a live baby to
my
> own child that had died.  But I do recall that, when
visiting my
> first newborn baby after having Nara and Ben (quite a few months
and
> several babies down the track around me) I handled it very well
> until, when leaving, there were newborn twins being discharged
> OMG !!!!  You were incredibly brave to visit your friend,
that
> shows a lot of love in you as well, you are a rare creature
Vanessa.
> >
> > Keep sharing your raw emotions with us, it's not going to
> shock us, we've all walked a mile in very similar shoes.
> >
> > Oh, and I know that you feel strange away from home without
> Matthew's things around you, perhaps it's time to find something
you
> associate with him and wear it on you always.  For me, I got a
charm
> to represent him which I wear on a chain.........and around his
2nd
> birthday this year I got a lovely froggy charm for my pandora, and
a
> butterfly charm too.  When I wear these things I feel a part
of him
> is travelling with me.  But you know Vanessa, as hard as it is
to
> believe at times, your son is closer than you know and will
always
> be.
> >
> > As time goes on you will find thatmost people will wait for you
to
> talk about Matthew, many will not give you a chance thinking they
are
> protecting you from hurt discussing him.  As hard as it
is, this is
> when we can shine and show people a new way of behaving.  I had
no
> idea how to deal with bereavement til I was bereaved
> myself..........nobody ever took the time to say to me "hey, I
lost
> my baby but I want to talk about him!".........I totally believe
that
> it's important for us to educate those around us to how we want to
be
> treated following our loss.  lead by example, talk about him
and
> while doing so, tell them you hope that he'll be present in
> conversation around you always so they know.
> >
> > Perhaps they still won't want to speak too much about him, my
in-
> laws are the same way................but that's not because
they
> don't love him, or miss him.  I gave my mum a photo of Ben,
> Nara and I for her fridge so she could see him
always...........I
> later found it in a drawer, she told me that seeing him everyday
was
> making her sad, she felt bad saying it but i had to understand her
> feelings.  She wasn't ready.  Now we all happily talk about
how
> alike all 4 of my kids are, we discuss Ben and what he's
probably
> thinking as his insane twin sister gets up to mischief, we all
laugh
> thinking of him as a puppet master.  We miss him as much today
as we
> did the day he left us but we can laugh and smile in his memory
and
> that's just taken time.
> >
> > If you need a good cry or a shoulder, please call me 02
6672
> 1003...............I do all my best crying in the shower these
days.
> >
> > You gave your son the very best hour of life you could, I know
you
> wish you could re-do it............oh lord I relate, but write
as
> much as you can about that time you spent with Matthew so that
> memory as it stands now lives on.
> >  
> > Lea xxxxxx
> > Mum to Sage, Nara, angel baby ~Ben~ and rainbow baby Arden
> > Give sorrow words; the grief that does not speak whispers the
o'er-
> fraught heart and bids it break.  ~William Shakespeare
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Chris & Vanessa Murphy <chrisandvanessamurphy@>
> > To: as_ap@...
> > Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 4:31:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: [as_ap] Re: Matthew
> >
> >
> > Hi Lea,
> > Thanks for your comments and to Pettina too.
> > Today we are at my sister in law's house and they have just left
> for their holiday in Qld and we are staying the rest of the week
for
> our "holiday". I feel homesick - everything about Matthew is at
home.
> We came yesterday so that we could hang out with them for a day
> before they left. It all felt way too "normal" a thing to be doing
at
> a time like this. I feel like I shouldn't be doing normal things
when
> my baby is not here with me. I've never grieved anyone's death
> before and it is a strange thing. My feelings of the last few
days -
> dazed, confused, vulnerable, want to hide from the world, yet also
> want to keep talking about Matthew to keep my memories of him
alive.
> My sister in law and family are not the talking type - we've had a
> brief conversation today, but they leave it up to us to bring it
up I
> think. I have other friends who wouldn't let me through their door
> before asking me how I am feeling. I suppose it is nice to have a
> change of scenery and
> >  be away from the madness of home, but I feel lost all the
same!!
> > I remember Lea that your son lived just over an hour (1 hour 21
> mins was it?) I would love to hear your memories of that time - I
> know you had an emergency C section, so I can't imagine what that
> might have been like for you. I know that my hour with Matthew was
so
> brief, I wish I could have it again now when I'm more "with it".
> Having spent about 50 mins pushing him out, I was so exhausted the
> only feeling I felt was relief that the pain of the birth was
over.
> He wasn't looking so good when he arrived - very blue - and he
never
> took a proper breath - just made little noises when he gasped
every
> few minutes. He had a heartbeat which Chris heard and felt, but it
> was slow and we knew that it wouldn't be long before he was gone.
In
> fact, Chris kept saying "I think he's gone" and then a few moments
> later, he would gasp for air and we'd realise he was still with
us. I
> held him for probably half his life, including when he died
(although
> neither of us realised
> >  it had happened), but I was shaking the whole time (just from
the
> adrenaline from the birth experience I think) and felt so weak.
> > Thankfully the numbness of the whole experience meant that I
didn't
> really comprehend that he had died for the whole first night we
had
> him and people came to visit (he was born at 3.46pm, died around
4.46
> and our last visitors left around 9pm). I felt like he was there
with
> us that whole time - he was still warm I guess. That's what made
my
> experience with my friend's baby last week so bizarre - she
actually
> was alive!
> > Anyway, sorry to go on about it, but I needed an outlet. Thanks
> for "listening" everyone....,
> > Love Vanessa
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 27/9/08, Lea Coleman <leannec72@> wrote:
> >
> > From: Lea Coleman <leannec72@>
> > Subject: Re: [as_ap] Re: Matthew
> > To: as_ap@...
> > Received: Saturday, 27 September, 2008, 9:08 PM
> >
> >
> > Vanessa, your words for Matthew's funeral were beautiful, as
were
> the many special touches you included on his funeral day. 
> >
> > Reading about your feelings, wanting your son back got to me, I
> think I can safely say all of us here understand that longing for
> your child to be with you, and to return to where they rest as
often
> as possible.  Oh, and the washing of his clothing gosh, you
were so
> brave to do that now.
> >
> > Just remember that we are all here for you love, you, Chris,
> Anabelle and all your family, this group is open to those around
you
> who also had to say goodbye to a special little boy in your son
> Matthew, so please extend an invitation to them if they feel
they'd
> like to share in the support we can offer each other.  That
goes to
> all our members, there are so many grandparents, aunts, uncles and
> siblings out there who are no doubt missing our babies too, we are
> here for them.
> >
> > I also wanted to add that I was stunned that you were able to
visit
> with your friend's new baby, my dear girl, you must have so much
> courage within you to do so, it took me many months to be ok
seeing
> other people's happy endings with babies, not that I wasn't joyful
> for them, just hurt too much to sit and question 'why them and not
> me?'.
> >
> > Big hugs, holler if you need anything love.
> >
> >  
> > Lea xxxxxx
> > Mum to Sage, Nara, angel baby ~Ben~ and rainbow baby Arden
> > Give sorrow words; the grief that does not speak whispers the
o'er-
> fraught heart and bids it break.  ~William Shakespeare
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: pettinabeves <pettinabeves@ yahoo.com. au>
> > To: as_ap@yahoogroups. com.au
> > Sent: Saturday, 27 September, 2008 5:55:22 PM
> > Subject: [as_ap] Re: Matthew
> >
> > Vanessa
> >
> > Such a beautiful message you gave at his fneral. It sounds soo
> > lovely with all the balloons for the kids.
> >
> > Iknow how hard the washing bit was. After Mercy passed there was
a
> > few things (a blanket in particular that i just couldnt bring
> myself
> > to wash for a while. I didnt wan to lose that precious smell. I
> also
> > had trouble removing the car seat.
> >
> > I am soo proud of you, your husband and Annabelle for walking
such
> a
> > tough road together.
> >
> > I will keep praying for you all.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In as_ap@yahoogroups. com.au, Chris & Vanessa Murphy
> > <chrisandvanessamurp hy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sat 27th
> > >  
> > > I have finally washed his clothes. I have been dreading it,
but
> > knew it had to be done. â€Å"It won’t
bring him backâ
> €�, I told
> > myself, leaving his blood on his hat, and the goop on his
singlet.
> > â€Å"You have to wash them eventuallyââ
‚¬ï¿½Ã¢â‚¬Â¦..So I did
> it. We had
> > changed Matthew into a fresh set of clothes and even a fresh
nappy
> > (Chris wanted to change his bum like we used to do for his
sister
> > when she was a baby, so we did) and he looked so cute when we
left
> > him.
> > > The night before last, my best friend had a beautiful baby
girl,
> > Nicole Eloise. We went to visit her yesterday. Such a beautiful
> baby
> > and seemed to me to be surprisingly so warm and alert - 
she
> opened
> > her eyes to look at me and moved her mouth like she wanted to be
> fed
> > and had such a beautiful full head of brown hair. So alive, and
so
> > normal.
> > > I miss my boy. I want my baby back. At the moment, I want to
> visit
> > the grave every day just so I remember him and can cry for him.
We
> > decided not to go on Thursday, just to have a day off. ââ
‚¬Å"We
> can’t
> > go every day� we thought. We took Anabelle on
Friday. She
> wanted
> > to know where the rug was, and where the tent was that was over
the
> > hole on Tuesday. On Wednesday she had gone to day care and told
> Jess
> > â€Å"Matthew’s in a box in heavenââ
‚¬ï¿½. On Friday we
> tried to explain
> > that while the box is in this bit of ground, Matthewâ€â
„¢s soul
> is in
> > heaven and that is a different place.
> > â€Å"Daddy….Daddy….Daddyâ
€¦â€� she kept
> saying, like she had
> > questions but didn’t know how to ask them. We
talked to
> Aunty
> > Teresa last night, and 4 year old Gabriel’s
understanding of
> > things is that Matthew is playing golf (he’s
buried against
> the
> > fence that backs onto the East Maitland golf course). At least I
> > know that Anabelle’s not the only one who
hasn’t
> quite got all
> > >  the facts straight!
> > > The funeral on Tuesday was beautiful, even enjoyable ââ
‚¬" we
> had a
> > â€Å"good� day celebrating his life and
mourning his loss
> at the
> > same time. The church was full â€" about 200 people we
think
> came
> > along which was lovely. We had balloons up the front, and after
the
> > service, the kids were invited to come and take one home. At the
> > graveside, my friend Cathy had some blue irises for the children
to
> > lay on the casket after it had been lowered into the ground.
> > Anabelle went first, then we watched her friends come and throw
the
> > flowers in. This was lovely too. Chris and I both spoke at the
> > service. It was hard, but I knew I had to do it and Iââ
‚¬â„¢m so
> glad I
> > did. I had a photo of me with Anabelle and Matthew, my 2
beautiful
> > children, which was on the screen behind me as I spoke.
> > > Here is what I said:
> > >  
> > > These are my 2 beautiful children whom I love very much.
Anabelle
> > as many of you know is a very happy bright little girl, who
loves
> > all the special people around her. My beautiful boy Matthew has
> been
> > a significant part of our family for all of this year. Weââ
‚¬â„¢ve
> > anticipated his arrival since early January, shed many tears as
we
> > realised that our time together would only be short, but also
tried
> > to celebrate the special moments that we did have together all
> > along. A few months ago, I was preparing Anabelle for the fact
that
> > her little brother would most likely never come home with us. In
> her
> > 2 year old wisdom, she confidently announced while pointing to
my
> > belly â€Å"No Mummy, Matthew is home with us now!ââ
‚¬ï¿½ How
> right she was
> > â€" Matthew has been home with us for many months. I,
in
> particular
> > was blessed to carry him as a part of myself all the way to 40
> weeks
> > and 4 days. He was an active boy â€" far more energetic
than
> > Anabelle was in utero â€" always
> > >  kicking me and very responsive to touch, especially from
his
> > Daddy or his sister. This was his little personality that we got
to
> > experience and cherish as a family. Matthew making his presence
> > known among us whenever someone got too close to my belly! He
was a
> > kicker right to the end, even moving his lips as he was being
born.
> > That was my boy. He hung on until the end against all odds and
> > statistics. I love his chubby cheeks and chubby thighs and his
> > little feet which always stuck out on my left side. I love him
> > because he is Matthew, my boy and no-one else will ever replace
him
> > in my heart.
> > >  
> > > God loves him too and made him just the way he was. One of the
> > bible passages that has given me great encouragement comes from
> > Psalm 139. â€Å"O Lord, you have searched me and you
know me. For
> you
> > created my inmost being, you knit me together in my motherââ
‚¬â„¢s
> womb.
> > I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. ââ
‚¬Â¦My
> > frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret
place.
> > When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes
saw
> > my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in
your
> > book before one of them came to be�.
> > >  
> > > Matthew will always be my precious boy, my beautiful boy that
> grew
> > inside me and came out to meet me before going ahead to meet my
> > Lord. Of course I wanted to be able to hold him for longer, care
> for
> > him and help him grow up, but now I have to trust that my loving
> > heavenly Father is doing those things for him now.
> > >  
> > >  
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 26/9/08, pettinabeves <pettinabeves@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: pettinabeves <pettinabeves@ ...>
> > > Subject: [as_ap] Re: Mercy's first Birthday(thanks and Vanessa)
> > > To: as_ap@yahoogroups. com.au
> > > Received: Friday, 26 September, 2008, 10:53 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks girls for the wonderful messages it has left me feeling
> > > supported.
> > >
> > > I did so well on Wednesday though yesterday i felt sooo
exhausted
> > > and emotional. I just feel empty.(which is hard due to all the
> > > moving going on in my belly).
> > >
> > > Vanessa, Im so sorry i missed the funeral. To be honest it was
> due
> > > to her birthday being the next day. I wasnt so sure i would
cope
> > > very well and thought it best just to send you my love
instead.
> Im
> > > sure it was a beautiful day. When your ready i would love to
take
> > a
> > > trip to maitland to deliver you a hug and just catch up with
how
> > you
> > > are doing. The picture of Matthew was beautiful. He had such a
> > > gorgeous face.
> > >
> > > Love Pettina
> > >
> > > --- In as_ap@yahoogroups. com.au, Chris & Vanessa Murphy
> > > <chrisandvanessamur phy@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Pettina,
> > > > I read your message last night - it was beautiful. I knew
that
> > > Mercy's birthday was coming up soon, but with everything else
> > going
> > > on this week, the date had slipped my mind.
> > > > It's beautiful to hear how you spent the day as a family
> > > remembering her. I hope that we will find meaningful things to
> > > remember Matthew by as the years go on.
> > > > I would like to write to you all about Matthew's funeral
which
> > was
> > > held a few days ago. Will come back to the computer later
tonight
> > to
> > > try.......
> > > > Love Vanessa
> > > >
> > > > --- On Wed, 24/9/08, pettinabeves <pettinabeves@ ...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: pettinabeves <pettinabeves@ ...>
> > > > Subject: [as_ap] Mercy's first Birthday
> > > > To: as_ap@yahoogroups. com.au
> > > > Received: Wednesday, 24 September, 2008, 3:50 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well it has already been a year. Where on earth did it go.
> Happy
> > > > First Birthday Mercy Grace Beves.
> > > >
> > > > WE let some Balloons go. A gift for her in heaven and spent
the
> > > day as
> > > > a family. We will have a dinner and a cake in rememberance
of
> > her
> > > > tonight. I might Baby cupcakes. I thought them fitting
> > considering
> > > her
> > > > size.
> > > >
> > > > Im surprised how well im doing. I feel..... words cant
describe
> > > but im
> > > > definitely not falling apart. I guess for us we are lucky
that
> > we
> > > dont
> > > > celebrate her birth and mourn her loss on the same day. Tho
> that
> > > > doesnt change that she isnt here and i dont miss her like
mad.
> I
> > > wanna
> > > > buy her so many things. Instead we will just buy her a
special
> > > stake
> > > > to put n her rose plant.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry anout the rant, just wanted to share my day so far.
> > > >
> > > > Vanessa i hope your doing well.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7
> > > Mail! http://au.yahoo. com/y7mail
> > > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >      Make the switch to the world's best email. Get
Yahoo!7
> > Mail! http://au.yahoo. com/y7mail
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > Yahoo!7 Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. 
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> >      Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7
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>
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>

Dear Lea,
Thank you so much for your long replies. I really appreciate your
thoughts at this time.
Over the last few days I have spent hours at the computer reading
though all the posts to the group from the very first message. I had
actually never done this before - when I joined I just read the
messages from that point on. It was great to catch up on who everyone
is and where they've been up to this point. It is really great that
you have put so much effort into this group, I can see how and why it
has helped so many people.
I won't apologise anymore I promise!! I've also been reading a lot of
blogs about grief, particularly grief of mothers losing babies. It's
my way of exploring what I'm feeling at the moment and thinking about
Matthew all day.
Wow, thanks for sharing about Ben's short life. It's amazing how
similar and yet so different each of their lives has been. Matthew
didn't cry either, but he also never opened his eyes (we had a peek
after he had died to check on their colour - they were blue), he
never breathed properly, but his warmth - yes I remember this too.
Even though I am away from Matthew's things at home - I actually
brought with us his box that the hospital gave us which I currently
have his clothes in (the ones he wore after he was born, although he
was dressed in them after he died), and the photos I've had developed
so far and the book the midwives made up for us and a few other
things including a teddy they gave us at the hospital. I just
couldn't leave home without some things - I said to Chris - what if
there's a bushfire or something and everything of his is gone??! Your
idea to have something to wear on you is lovely. I definitely need to
have at least a photo in my wallet. I dropped in to tell our local
baby health nurse at the chemist what had happened the other day, and
realised I didn't even have a photo on me that I could show her. Oh
well, these will be the things I can spend time getting together
soon.
I would definitely like to call you some time and chat in person. You
have been a huge support to me through your messages and this group
in general. I'll have to give Pettina a call soon too and maybe go
back to visit her, since her bub is due so soon.
Thanks also for your comments on "feeling too normal". I talked to
Chris about it too, and he reassured me that it was OK to be normal.
On Friday we spent the day with some old friends of his, which could
have been quite a stressful time for me (they are pretty intense
people!), but thankfully Friday was the first day that I was feeling
normal and also feeling that it was OK to feel normal, so I ended up
dealing with it all pretty well. I am thankful to God that those days
come when I need them too, and understand that I can't expect to feel
on top of things all the time at the moment (if ever again!).
I haven't checked out the SIDS and Kids forum yet, but I had already
made contact with the Newcastle SIDS and Kids branch. They were
fantastic - I went in to the drop in centre about 3 weeks before
Matthew was due and when they asked me if I had lost a baby and I
said "I'm about to", they (3 lovely women) dropped everything to talk
to me and have a cuppa! I went back to see them a couple of weeks
later and they also came to the hospital to do Matthew's hand and
foot moulds for me. It is so good to know where to find support and I
have been blessed to meet such wonderful people (in person and on-
line!).
It's good to hear your thoughts on shelving your grief while caring
for Nara. I think I have learnt a lot about the value of each of our
children from you. At first glance I wrongly thought that perhaps it
would be easier for you to grieve when you had another baby to look
after - but of course Ben was as dear to you as any other child. I'm
glad you've helped me see and understand that, and I can imagine now
that that must have been such a difficult road for you with a premmie
baby to care for at the same time. You are a very strong woman. Just
as it is no easier for me because I have Anabelle, so it would be no
easier for you to lose Ben because you have other children.
One other thought for tonight - the other day we were taking a
bushwalk and I was taking pics of Chris and Anabelle. I felt terrible
that we could be taking pictures without Matthew and in our case, our
family photos had gone from Mum, Dad, Anabelle, to Mum, Dad,
Anabelle - they seem so the same as before, and yet so different,
because there was a whole 9 month period in our lives when Matthew
was "with us". Not having him in our photos is how the rest of our
lives on earth will be and that is so very sad. We haven't taken many
photos on this holiday, but in a way I think that is appropriate. I
will look back on them as a sad time when we were missing Matthew.
How is your beautiful boy Arden?
Love Vanessa


--- In as_ap@..., Lea Coleman <leannec72@...> wrote:
>
> You know Vanessa, the whole idea of this group is to have a space
for us to come and share our feelings, the dark ones, the happy ones,
it's not a place to spend time constantly on the up (although if
you're up that's great)...there's no pressure to be forever positive
or joyful, let it all out freely here, no more apologies...ok?
>
> I felt like a part of your emotional energy reading this post from
you, it's so familiar that I could tap into it easily, thank you for
welcoming me to tell you about my own memories of Ben's life
because I definately went back to that short hour and 21 minutes
reading about the time you spent with your beloved son.
>
> Ahhh, my hour 21 mins was spent very out of it which is really
quite a tragedy, but I remember the feel of his breath, although
very faint on my cheek, the warmth of him...that's very fresh in
my memory.  I clearly remember cleaning his little face of vernix
and wiping away a little dribble forming in the corner of his lips, I
felt like they were my own motherly gestures for my son so they are
important memories.  Like you and Chris, we weren' tsure whether he
had passed or not for a while.  Eventually I asked Ali if Ben was
still with us, he said "I don't know, I dont think so" so we asked
the doctors to check and sure enough he has passed away.  I don't
recall a single sound being made by our son.  At the time he was
born I was experiencing all the horrid effects a c-section could
bring, I was feeling everything, including pain, and I was terrified
beyond belief, I can remember asking "is he alive, is he alive?"
and he was......but there
>  was no cry, I don't remember hearing his heart beat, I couldn't
move so I just lay with him on my chest staring into his impossibly
dark blue beautiful eyes....oh he has sapphire blue eyes they were so
lovely.  He was so calm and peaceful, there was no struggle for
breath outwardly, his passing was so silent and gentle, I am relieved
about that to this day.  I hadn't dared consider what his final
breaths would be like.
>
> Wow, I am visiting this stuff for the first time in a long time,
maybe ever in some cases?
>
> Ben died in his daddy's arms.  In the arms of a man who had
been scared at some stages to even look at his son and wasn't sure
he could handle being there.  To know that his father held him
lovingly gives me a lot of comfort, that he knew his dad's love at
the end was so important in the grand scheme of our journey.
>
> I totally knew what you meant about your visit to see your
friend's new baby last week.  I put off visiting friends with live
babies as long as I could.  It was perhaps a little different for me
from the perspective of losing one baby but having one to bring
home in Nara, because I did have a live baby myself perhaps I was a
little more protected from the stark contrast of a live baby to my
own child that had died.  But I do recall that, when visiting my
first newborn baby after having Nara and Ben (quite a few months and
several babies down the track around me) I handled it very well
until, when leaving, there were newborn twins being discharged
OMG !!!!  You were incredibly brave to visit your friend, that
shows a lot of love in you as well, you are a rare creature Vanessa.
>
> Keep sharing your raw emotions with us, it's not going to
shock us, we've all walked a mile in very similar shoes.
>
> Oh, and I know that you feel strange away from home without
Matthew's things around you, perhaps it's time to find something you
associate with him and wear it on you always.  For me, I got a charm
to represent him which I wear on a chain.........and around his 2nd
birthday this year I got a lovely froggy charm for my pandora, and a
butterfly charm too.  When I wear these things I feel a part of him
is travelling with me.  But you know Vanessa, as hard as it is to
believe at times, your son is closer than you know and will always
be.
>
> As time goes on you will find thatmost people will wait for you to
talk about Matthew, many will not give you a chance thinking they are
protecting you from hurt discussing him.  As hard as it is, this is
when we can shine and show people a new way of behaving.  I had no
idea how to deal with bereavement til I was bereaved
myself..........nobody ever took the time to say to me "hey, I lost
my baby but I want to talk about him!".........I totally believe that
it's important for us to educate those around us to how we want to be
treated following our loss.  lead by example, talk about him and
while doing so, tell them you hope that he'll be present in
conversation around you always so they know.
>
> Perhaps they still won't want to speak too much about him, my in-
laws are the same way................but that's not because they
don't love him, or miss him.  I gave my mum a photo of Ben,
Nara and I for her fridge so she could see him always...........I
later found it in a drawer, she told me that seeing him everyday was
making her sad, she felt bad saying it but i had to understand her
feelings.  She wasn't ready.  Now we all happily talk about how
alike all 4 of my kids are, we discuss Ben and what he's probably
thinking as his insane twin sister gets up to mischief, we all laugh
thinking of him as a puppet master.  We miss him as much today as we
did the day he left us but we can laugh and smile in his memory and
that's just taken time.
>
> If you need a good cry or a shoulder, please call me 02 6672
1003...............I do all my best crying in the shower these days.
>
> You gave your son the very best hour of life you could, I know you
wish you could re-do it............oh lord I relate, but write as
much as you can about that time you spent with Matthew so that
memory as it stands now lives on.
>  
> Lea xxxxxx
> Mum to Sage, Nara, angel baby ~Ben~ and rainbow baby Arden
> Give sorrow words; the grief that does not speak whispers the o'er-
fraught heart and bids it break.  ~William Shakespeare
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Chris & Vanessa Murphy <chrisandvanessamurphy@...>
> To: as_ap@...
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 4:31:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [as_ap] Re: Matthew
>
>
> Hi Lea,
> Thanks for your comments and to Pettina too.
> Today we are at my sister in law's house and they have just left
for their holiday in Qld and we are staying the rest of the week for
our "holiday". I feel homesick - everything about Matthew is at home.
We came yesterday so that we could hang out with them for a day
before they left. It all felt way too "normal" a thing to be doing at
a time like this. I feel like I shouldn't be doing normal things when
my baby is not here with me. I've never grieved anyone's death
before and it is a strange thing. My feelings of the last few days -
dazed, confused, vulnerable, want to hide from the world, yet also
want to keep talking about Matthew to keep my memories of him alive.
My sister in law and family are not the talking type - we've had a
brief conversation today, but they leave it up to us to bring it up I
think. I have other friends who wouldn't let me through their door
before asking me how I am feeling. I suppose it is nice to have a
change of scenery and
>  be away from the madness of home, but I feel lost all the same!!
> I remember Lea that your son lived just over an hour (1 hour 21
mins was it?) I would love to hear your memories of that time - I
know you had an emergency C section, so I can't imagine what that
might have been like for you. I know that my hour with Matthew was so
brief, I wish I could have it again now when I'm more "with it".
Having spent about 50 mins pushing him out, I was so exhausted the
only feeling I felt was relief that the pain of the birth was over.
He wasn't looking so good when he arrived - very blue - and he never
took a proper breath - just made little noises when he gasped every
few minutes. He had a heartbeat which Chris heard and felt, but it
was slow and we knew that it wouldn't be long before he was gone. In
fact, Chris kept saying "I think he's gone" and then a few moments
later, he would gasp for air and we'd realise he was still with us. I
held him for probably half his life, including when he died (although
neither of us realised
>  it had happened), but I was shaking the whole time (just from the
adrenaline from the birth experience I think) and felt so weak.
> Thankfully the numbness of the whole experience meant that I didn't
really comprehend that he had died for the whole first night we had
him and people came to visit (he was born at 3.46pm, died around 4.46
and our last visitors left around 9pm). I felt like he was there with
us that whole time - he was still warm I guess. That's what made my
experience with my friend's baby last week so bizarre - she actually
was alive!
> Anyway, sorry to go on about it, but I needed an outlet. Thanks
for "listening" everyone....,
> Love Vanessa
>
>
> --- On Sat, 27/9/08, Lea Coleman <leannec72@...> wrote:
>
> From: Lea Coleman <leannec72@...>
> Subject: Re: [as_ap] Re: Matthew
> To: as_ap@...
> Received: Saturday, 27 September, 2008, 9:08 PM
>
>
> Vanessa, your words for Matthew's funeral were beautiful, as were
the many special touches you included on his funeral day. 
>
> Reading about your feelings, wanting your son back got to me, I
think I can safely say all of us here understand that longing for
your child to be with you, and to return to where they rest as often
as possible.  Oh, and the washing of his clothing gosh, you were so
brave to do that now.
>
> Just remember that we are all here for you love, you, Chris,
Anabelle and all your family, this group is open to those around you
who also had to say goodbye to a special little boy in your son
Matthew, so please extend an invitation to them if they feel they'd
like to share in the support we can offer each other.  That goes to
all our members, there are so many grandparents, aunts, uncles and
siblings out there who are no doubt missing our babies too, we are
here for them.
>
> I also wanted to add that I was stunned that you were able to visit
with your friend's new baby, my dear girl, you must have so much
courage within you to do so, it took me many months to be ok seeing
other people's happy endings with babies, not that I wasn't joyful
for them, just hurt too much to sit and question 'why them and not
me?'.
>
> Big hugs, holler if you need anything love.
>
>  
> Lea xxxxxx
> Mum to Sage, Nara, angel baby ~Ben~ and rainbow baby Arden
> Give sorrow words; the grief that does not speak whispers the o'er-
fraught heart and bids it break.  ~William Shakespeare
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: pettinabeves <pettinabeves@ yahoo.com. au>
> To: as_ap@yahoogroups. com.au
> Sent: Saturday, 27 September, 2008 5:55:22 PM
> Subject: [as_ap] Re: Matthew
>
> Vanessa
>
> Such a beautiful message you gave at his fneral. It sounds soo
> lovely with all the balloons for the kids.
>
> Iknow how hard the washing bit was. After Mercy passed there was a
> few things (a blanket in particular that i just couldnt bring
myself
> to wash for a while. I didnt wan to lose that precious smell. I
also
> had trouble removing the car seat.
>
> I am soo proud of you, your husband and Annabelle for walking such
a
> tough road together.
>
> I will keep praying for you all.
>
>
>
> --- In as_ap@yahoogroups. com.au, Chris & Vanessa Murphy
> <chrisandvanessamurp hy@> wrote:
> >
> > Sat 27th
> >  
> > I have finally washed his clothes. I have been dreading it, but
> knew it had to be done. â€Å"It won’t bring him backâ
€�, I told
> myself, leaving his blood on his hat, and the goop on his singlet.
> â€Å"You have to wash them eventually�…..So I did
it. We had
> changed Matthew into a fresh set of clothes and even a fresh nappy
> (Chris wanted to change his bum like we used to do for his sister
> when she was a baby, so we did) and he looked so cute when we left
> him.
> > The night before last, my best friend had a beautiful baby girl,
> Nicole Eloise. We went to visit her yesterday. Such a beautiful
baby
> and seemed to me to be surprisingly so warm and alert -  she
opened
> her eyes to look at me and moved her mouth like she wanted to be
fed
> and had such a beautiful full head of brown hair. So alive, and so
> normal.
> > I miss my boy. I want my baby back. At the moment, I want to
visit
> the grave every day just so I remember him and can cry for him. We
> decided not to go on Thursday, just to have a day off. â€Å"We
can’t
> go every day� we thought. We took Anabelle on Friday. She
wanted
> to know where the rug was, and where the tent was that was over the
> hole on Tuesday. On Wednesday she had gone to day care and told
Jess
> â€Å"Matthew’s in a box in heaven�. On Friday we
tried to explain
> that while the box is in this bit of ground, Matthew’s soul
is in
> heaven and that is a different place.
> â€Å"Daddy….Daddy….Daddy…� she kept
saying, like she had
> questions but didn’t know how to ask them. We talked to
Aunty
> Teresa last night, and 4 year old Gabriel’s understanding of
> things is that Matthew is playing golf (he’s buried against
the
> fence that backs onto the East Maitland golf course). At least I
> know that Anabelle’s not the only one who hasn’t
quite got all
> >  the facts straight!
> > The funeral on Tuesday was beautiful, even enjoyable â€" we
had a
> â€Å"good� day celebrating his life and mourning his loss
at the
> same time. The church was full â€" about 200 people we think
came
> along which was lovely. We had balloons up the front, and after the
> service, the kids were invited to come and take one home. At the
> graveside, my friend Cathy had some blue irises for the children to
> lay on the casket after it had been lowered into the ground.
> Anabelle went first, then we watched her friends come and throw the
> flowers in. This was lovely too. Chris and I both spoke at the
> service. It was hard, but I knew I had to do it and I’m so
glad I
> did. I had a photo of me with Anabelle and Matthew, my 2 beautiful
> children, which was on the screen behind me as I spoke.
> > Here is what I said:
> >  
> > These are my 2 beautiful children whom I love very much. Anabelle
> as many of you know is a very happy bright little girl, who loves
> all the special people around her. My beautiful boy Matthew has
been
> a significant part of our family for all of this year. We’ve
> anticipated his arrival since early January, shed many tears as we
> realised that our time together would only be short, but also tried
> to celebrate the special moments that we did have together all
> along. A few months ago, I was preparing Anabelle for the fact that
> her little brother would most likely never come home with us. In
her
> 2 year old wisdom, she confidently announced while pointing to my
> belly â€Å"No Mummy, Matthew is home with us now!� How
right she was
> â€" Matthew has been home with us for many months. I, in
particular
> was blessed to carry him as a part of myself all the way to 40
weeks
> and 4 days. He was an active boy â€" far more energetic than
> Anabelle was in utero â€" always
> >  kicking me and very responsive to touch, especially from his
> Daddy or his sister. This was his little personality that we got to
> experience and cherish as a family. Matthew making his presence
> known among us whenever someone got too close to my belly! He was a
> kicker right to the end, even moving his lips as he was being born.
> That was my boy. He hung on until the end against all odds and
> statistics. I love his chubby cheeks and chubby thighs and his
> little feet which always stuck out on my left side. I love him
> because he is Matthew, my boy and no-one else will ever replace him
> in my heart.
> >  
> > God loves him too and made him just the way he was. One of the
> bible passages that has given me great encouragement comes from
> Psalm 139. â€Å"O Lord, you have searched me and you know me. For
you
> created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother’s
womb.
> I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. …My
> frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place.
> When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw
> my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your
> book before one of them came to be�.
> >  
> > Matthew will always be my precious boy, my beautiful boy that
grew
> inside me and came out to meet me before going ahead to meet my
> Lord. Of course I wanted to be able to hold him for longer, care
for
> him and help him grow up, but now I have to trust that my loving
> heavenly Father is doing those things for him now.
> >  
> >  
> >
> > --- On Fri, 26/9/08, pettinabeves <pettinabeves@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > From: pettinabeves <pettinabeves@ ...>
> > Subject: [as_ap] Re: Mercy's first Birthday(thanks and Vanessa)
> > To: as_ap@yahoogroups. com.au
> > Received: Friday, 26 September, 2008, 10:53 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks girls for the wonderful messages it has left me feeling
> > supported.
> >
> > I did so well on Wednesday though yesterday i felt sooo exhausted
> > and emotional. I just feel empty.(which is hard due to all the
> > moving going on in my belly).
> >
> > Vanessa, Im so sorry i missed the funeral. To be honest it was
due
> > to her birthday being the next day. I wasnt so sure i would cope
> > very well and thought it best just to send you my love instead.
Im
> > sure it was a beautiful day. When your ready i would love to take
> a
> > trip to maitland to deliver you a hug and just catch up with how
> you
> > are doing. The picture of Matthew was beautiful. He had such a
> > gorgeous face.
> >
> > Love Pettina
> >
> > --- In as_ap@yahoogroups. com.au, Chris & Vanessa Murphy
> > <chrisandvanessamur phy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Pettina,
> > > I read your message last night - it was beautiful. I knew that
> > Mercy's birthday was coming up soon, but with everything else
> going
> > on this week, the date had slipped my mind.
> > > It's beautiful to hear how you spent the day as a family
> > remembering her. I hope that we will find meaningful things to
> > remember Matthew by as the years go on.
> > > I would like to write to you all about Matthew's funeral which
> was
> > held a few days ago. Will come back to the computer later tonight
> to
> > try.......
> > > Love Vanessa
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 24/9/08, pettinabeves <pettinabeves@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: pettinabeves <pettinabeves@ ...>
> > > Subject: [as_ap] Mercy's first Birthday
> > > To: as_ap@yahoogroups. com.au
> > > Received: Wednesday, 24 September, 2008, 3:50 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well it has already been a year. Where on earth did it go.
Happy
> > > First Birthday Mercy Grace Beves.
> > >
> > > WE let some Balloons go. A gift for her in heaven and spent the
> > day as
> > > a family. We will have a dinner and a cake in rememberance of
> her
> > > tonight. I might Baby cupcakes. I thought them fitting
> considering
> > her
> > > size.
> > >
> > > Im surprised how well im doing. I feel..... words cant describe
> > but im
> > > definitely not falling apart. I guess for us we are lucky that
> we
> > dont
> > > celebrate her birth and mourn her loss on the same day. Tho
that
> > > doesnt change that she isnt here and i dont miss her like mad.
I
> > wanna
> > > buy her so many things. Instead we will just buy her a special
> > stake
> > > to put n her rose plant.
> > >
> > > Sorry anout the rant, just wanted to share my day so far.
> > >
> > > Vanessa i hope your doing well.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7
> > Mail! http://au.yahoo. com/y7mail
> > >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >      Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7
> Mail! http://au.yahoo. com/y7mail
> >
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo!7 Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail.
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> Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail.
>
>
>       Make the switch to the world&#39;s best email. Get Yahoo!7
Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail
>

Im so sorry about the bird. You deserve a good cry. Sometimes it
helps. That is such a beautiful piece. Thanks for sharing.

--- In as_ap@..., "Jenny" <jenzi83@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Thankyou for your concern Pettina.  I'm sorry to hear of your
> concerns but I'm sure you have nothing to worry about (even though
I
> know that won't make you feel any better.)  Tammy, I am also sad
to
> hear that you are feeling down at the moment.  I guess we are all
on
> the same scary rollercoaster with all of its ups and downs.
>
> I had been looking after a baby Indian Myna Bird over the last
> couple of days which I had found in my front yard unable to fly.
> Being a vet nurse, I knew that if I took him down to the vets he
> would get put down (they are a pest bird).  So, I was avoiding
> taking him down.  Anyway, this morning I made up my mind that I
> would take him to the vet knowing full well he would be put down.
> Well, this set the waterworks off which I have been holding in for
a
> while.  A silly little baby Myna bird set me off!  Oh well, it was
> coming.
>
> Anyway, I just had this email sent to me from a member of my
> playgroup which I thought I would post here that should put a
smile
> on our faces.
>
> Take care all
> Jenny
>
>
> A Dog's Purpose
> (from a  6-year-old)
>
> Being a veterinarian, I had been called to examine a  ten-year-old
> Irish
> Wolfhound named Belker.  The dog's owners, Ron, his wife Lisa, and
> their
> little boy Shane, were all very attached to Belker and they  were
> hoping
> for a miracle.
>
> I examined Belker and found he was dying.  I told the family we
> couldn't
> do anything for Belker and offered to perform the euthanasia
> procedure
> for the old dog in their home.
>
> As we made arrangements, Ron and Lisa told me they thought it
would
> be
> good for six-year-old Shane to observe the procedure.  They felt as
> though Shane might learn something from the experience
>
> The next day, I felt the familiar catch in my throat as Belker's
> family
> surrounded him..  Shane seemed so calm,  petting the old dog for
the
> last
> time, that I wondered if he understood what was going on.  Within
a
> few
> minutes, Belker slipped peacefully  away.
>
> The little boy seemed to accept Belker's transition without any
> difficulty or confusion.  We sat together for a while after
Belker's
> death, wondering aloud about the sad fact that animal lives are
> shorter
> than human lives.  Shane, who had been listening quietly, piped up,
> "I know why."
>
> Startled, we all turned to him.  What came out of his mouth next
> stunned me.  I'd never heard a more comforting explanation.
>
> He said, "People are born so that they can learn how to live a
good
> life
> -- like loving everybody all the time and being nice, right?"  The
> six-year-old continued,
> "Well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don't have to
stay
> as long."
>
> Live simply.
> Love  generously.
> Care deeply.
> Speak kindly.
>
> Remember, if a dog was the teacher you would learn things like:
>
> When loved ones come home, always run to greet them.
> Never pass up the opportunity to go for a joyride.
> Allow the experience of fresh air and the wind in your face to be
> pure ecstasy.
> Take naps.
> Stretch before rising.
> Run, romp, and play daily.
> Thrive on attention and let people touch you.
> Avoid biting when a simple growl will do.
> On warm days, stop to lie on your back on the grass.
> On hot days, drink lots of water and lie under a shady tree.
> When you're happy, dance around and wag your entire body.
> Delight in the simple joy of a long walk.
> Eat with gusto and enthusiasm.  Stop when you have had enough.
> Be loyal.  Never pretend to be something you're not.
> If what you want lies buried, dig until you find it.
>
> When someone is having a bad day, be silent, sit close by and
nuzzle
> them gently
>

Hello,

Thankyou for your concern Pettina.  I'm sorry to hear of your
concerns but I'm sure you have nothing to worry about (even though I
know that won't make you feel any better.)  Tammy, I am also sad to
hear that you are feeling down at the moment.  I guess we are all on
the same scary rollercoaster with all of its ups and downs.

I had been looking after a baby Indian Myna Bird over the last
couple of days which I had found in my front yard unable to fly.
Being a vet nurse, I knew that if I took him down to the vets he
would get put down (they are a pest bird).  So, I was avoiding
taking him down.  Anyway, this morning I made up my mind that I
would take him to the vet knowing full well he would be put down.
Well, this set the waterworks off which I have been holding in for a
while.  A silly little baby Myna bird set me off!  Oh well, it was
coming.

Anyway, I just had this email sent to me from a member of my
playgroup which I thought I would post here that should put a smile
on our faces.

Take care all
Jenny


A Dog's Purpose
(from a  6-year-old)

Being a veterinarian, I had been called to examine a  ten-year-old
Irish
Wolfhound named Belker.  The dog's owners, Ron, his wife Lisa, and
their
little boy Shane, were all very attached to Belker and they  were
hoping
for a miracle.

I examined Belker and found he was dying.  I told the family we
couldn't
do anything for Belker and offered to perform the euthanasia
procedure
for the old dog in their home.

As we made arrangements, Ron and Lisa told me they thought it would
be
good for six-year-old Shane to observe the procedure.  They felt as
though Shane might learn something from the experience

The next day, I felt the familiar catch in my throat as Belker's
family
surrounded him..  Shane seemed so calm,  petting the old dog for the
last
time, that I wondered if he understood what was going on.  Within a
few
minutes, Belker slipped peacefully  away.

The little boy seemed to accept Belker's transition without any
difficulty or confusion.  We sat together for a while after Belker's
death, wondering aloud about the sad fact that animal lives are
shorter
than human lives.  Shane, who had been listening quietly, piped up,
"I know why."

Startled, we all turned to him.  What came out of his mouth next
stunned me.  I'd never heard a more comforting explanation.

He said, "People are born so that they can learn how to live a good
life
-- like loving everybody all the time and being nice, right?"  The
six-year-old continued,
"Well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don't have to stay
as long."

Live simply.
Love  generously.
Care deeply.
Speak kindly.

Remember, if a dog was the teacher you would learn things like:

When loved ones come home, always run to greet them.
Never pass up the opportunity to go for a joyride.
Allow the experience of fresh air and the wind in your face to be
pure ecstasy.
Take naps.
Stretch before rising.
Run, romp, and play daily.
Thrive on attention and let people touch you.
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do.
On warm days, stop to lie on your back on the grass.
On hot days, drink lots of water and lie under a shady tree.
When you're happy, dance around and wag your entire body.
Delight in the simple joy of a long walk.
Eat with gusto and enthusiasm.  Stop when you have had enough.
Be loyal.  Never pretend to be something you're not.
If what you want lies buried, dig until you find it.

When someone is having a bad day, be silent, sit close by and nuzzle
them gently

Thanks Tammie

Some where deep inside i have snippits of hope but they fade so
quickly some days. My midwife has ensured me that due to my
circumstances they will probably not let me go past my due date and
that if it was gettin too much by 38 weeks they would be likely to
discuss induction. It helped me see the light at the end of the
tunnel. At this stage i can focus up till week 37. Ill tackle the
rest later. Its Mercy's first angel day at 37+6 id love to be
holding him by then.

I hope things start getting easier for you soon. If you wanna chat
just let me know.

--- In as_ap@..., "Tammie" <abbey_april@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you so much for your kind words. I felt the same when I was
> pregnant although the nurses and doctors reassured me over and over
> again that my baby was healthy. In the back of my mind I kept
thinking
> but anything can go wrong, I was very anxious which was silly as I
> stressed that much I went into labour at 31weeks.
>
> Even during my labour I grabbed a nurse and told her if anything
> happens to my baby I would personally hold them responsible (I was
a
> bit of a mess during labour). The nurse reassured me she had never
> lost a baby while assisting in child birth. It still wasnt a
comfort
> for me. I guess that is the way we think.
>
> We dont think of the good outcomes we only think of the worst
which I
> certainly did.
>
> And in the end I had a perfect little boy, he looks so much like
April
> where my first words to him.
>
> So the moral of my story is just be possitive precious and it will
all
> be fine. By the way you will cope with a beautiful healthy baby we
all
> do some how.  I think they should come with an instruction mannual
lol.
>
> All will be ok I believe there is light at the end of the dark
tunnel
> although sometimes I go back into the dark as I am sure we all do.
But
> the light will always be there we just have to find it sometimes it
> happens over night and sometimes it takes a long time. And that is
why
> we are all here to talk to even if its about nothing or something.
So
> Take Care I think I have rambled enough.
>
> Lots of love
> Tam xoxoxoxoxoxox MWAH to all!
>

Thank you so much for your kind words. I felt the same when I was
pregnant although the nurses and doctors reassured me over and over
again that my baby was healthy. In the back of my mind I kept thinking
but anything can go wrong, I was very anxious which was silly as I
stressed that much I went into labour at 31weeks.

Even during my labour I grabbed a nurse and told her if anything
happens to my baby I would personally hold them responsible (I was a
bit of a mess during labour). The nurse reassured me she had never
lost a baby while assisting in child birth. It still wasnt a comfort
for me. I guess that is the way we think.

We dont think of the good outcomes we only think of the worst which I
certainly did.

And in the end I had a perfect little boy, he looks so much like April
where my first words to him.

So the moral of my story is just be possitive precious and it will all
be fine. By the way you will cope with a beautiful healthy baby we all
do some how.  I think they should come with an instruction mannual lol.

All will be ok I believe there is light at the end of the dark tunnel
although sometimes I go back into the dark as I am sure we all do. But
the light will always be there we just have to find it sometimes it
happens over night and sometimes it takes a long time. And that is why
we are all here to talk to even if its about nothing or something. So
Take Care I think I have rambled enough.

Lots of love
Tam xoxoxoxoxoxox MWAH to all!

Tammie and Jenny i am so sorry you are both having difficult times
at the moment.

Im doing "alright". I am probably having more rough days than good
days and am feeling so anxious about the new baby. I have such fear
of losing another child and i just want to hold him so badly. Heres
hoping i go at 37 weeks tho unless he turns himself we might have a
problem.

So i guess im just an emotional wreck at the moment. I miss my
little girl so badly some days i feel like i cant move but Isabella
doesnt really allow for that.Thank God for her.

It seems so surreal that i might have a healthy baby. I forget what
a healthy baby is like and am worried i wont cope.

I could go on for hours at the moment but on the flip side i saw a
new midwife the other day and she was just great and will take care
of my care for the restof the pregnancy which i am truly grateful
for.

So that is me at the moment. Oh and Isabella has hit that horrible 2
yr old stage they all talk about. Soo difficult.

--- In as_ap@..., "Jenny" <jenzi83@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am still around.  I have been reading all of the posts and
Vanessa,
> I am very sorry for your loss.  He was a beautiful baby.  Rest
assured
> he has many friends with him in all of our angel babies.
>
> I have been getting a little sad and have been reading all of the
> posts with a lump in my throat the entire time.  I have just
joined up
> with SANDS (Stillbirth and Neonatal Death Support) which I had
been
> avoiding ever since Isabell was born.  Their newsletters have been
> making me extremely emotional as well. Everything seems to be
making
> me sad of late.
>
> Our playgroup has just welcomed 5 new mums with babies all under
6mths
> and most being under 3mths old.  I find it extremely hard to even
look
> at them let alone go over to them.  So, I avoid them.  (I must
seem
> crazy to all of the new mums.)  I just know that if I spend too
much
> time with them I will probably break down into a sobbing mess.
This
> is not a good thing as both of my very good friends are due in the
> next couple of months.
>
> We have been trying for another baby which I think is where this
is
> all stemming from.  For some reason it is not happening as easily
as
> it had with Troy and Isabell.
>
> I recently had a tattoo done for Isabell.  One day I will take a
photo
> of it for you guys to see.  So, this is where I'm at at the
moment.
> Still around but staying quiet until my next burst of chat.
>
> Hope you all keep well
> Jenny
>
> --- In as_ap@..., "Lea" <leannec72@> wrote:
> >
> > I'd love to know how each of you are doing at the moment, if you
get
> a
> > chance, please come in and give us all an update on how life is
> > treating you all.
> >
> > Lea xxxxxxx
> >
>

Hello everyone,

I am still around.  I have been reading all of the posts and Vanessa,
I am very sorry for your loss.  He was a beautiful baby.  Rest assured
he has many friends with him in all of our angel babies.

I have been getting a little sad and have been reading all of the
posts with a lump in my throat the entire time.  I have just joined up
with SANDS (Stillbirth and Neonatal Death Support) which I had been
avoiding ever since Isabell was born.  Their newsletters have been
making me extremely emotional as well. Everything seems to be making
me sad of late.

Our playgroup has just welcomed 5 new mums with babies all under 6mths
and most being under 3mths old.  I find it extremely hard to even look
at them let alone go over to them.  So, I avoid them.  (I must seem
crazy to all of the new mums.)  I just know that if I spend too much
time with them I will probably break down into a sobbing mess.  This
is not a good thing as both of my very good friends are due in the
next couple of months.

We have been trying for another baby which I think is where this is
all stemming from.  For some reason it is not happening as easily as
it had with Troy and Isabell.

I recently had a tattoo done for Isabell.  One day I will take a photo
of it for you guys to see.  So, this is where I'm at at the moment.
Still around but staying quiet until my next burst of chat.

Hope you all keep well
Jenny

--- In as_ap@..., "Lea" <leannec72@...> wrote:
>
> I'd love to know how each of you are doing at the moment, if you get
a
> chance, please come in and give us all an update on how life is
> treating you all.
>
> Lea xxxxxxx
>

Hey there everyone,

Well in answer to your question Lea life is not so great at the
moment. Mores downs than ups lately but I am sure the storm will come
to an end soon. The family are great  Ab is getting so big now and
Taighan well he is just a little munchkin.  Hope every one is doing
well especially Pettina and Chris and Vanessa.  Well talk to you all
soon.  Lots of love Tammie

I'd love to know how each of you are doing at the moment, if you get a
chance, please come in and give us all an update on how life is
treating you all.

Lea xxxxxxx

Vanessa

I wanted to touch on this last night and forgot to in my tired state.

"It all felt way too "normal" a thing to be doing at a time like
this. I feel like I shouldn't be doing normal things when my baby is
not here with me. I've never grieved anyone's death before and it is
a strange thing. My feelings of the last few days - dazed, confused,
vulnerable, want to hide from the world, yet also want to keep
talking about Matthew to keep my memories of him alive."

I'll never forget having the very same feelings, during my pregnancy
after I found out about Ben's anen, and of course, after losing him.

I would catch myself smiling or happy at times and wonder how the
heck I could be when my heart was disintergrating.  But I had the
good advice from someone wise to be thankful for the fact that I
could still find the happiness and joy in life despite the pain I
was feeling.

Don't second guess or feel guilty for being 'normal'.  It's often
hard to understand how the rest of the world doesn't stop revolving
when you're grieving.  How people can carry on their lives normally
when you are hurting so badly, then you realise that you too are
going on with life.

That's exactly how it's meant to be.......and I truly believe that
our angel babies would want that for us.  Mummy, get up, smile
today, be happy, find joy in the little things.  They want us to
survive and thrive, they don't want us to dip into the darkness of
depression and not leave the house for months at a time...I'm so
certain of that.

It's not to say, of course, that if we find ourselves suffering
depression and unable to get out of bed or walk out the backdoor to
hang out the washing that they'll be disappointed in us, they know
we are hurting. They'll do all they can to show us little signs that
they are closer than we realise.

And as far as talking about Matthew to keep your memories alive is
concerned, that's exactly what you should do if you feel that need.

I want to suggest you try joining the sids & kids online forum if I
haven't before, as an additional outlet for your feelings about
Matthew.  It's a safe haven for expression about the loss of a
child, during pregnancy or infancy.

After Ben's death I was numb for a good 6 months, it took Christmas
and New year to come before I finally started to 'feel'. I'd been so
immersed in caring for Nara, bringing home a premmie bubba, dealing
with her operation and learning to care for her eye problem that I'd
put a lot of my grieving on the shelf to deal with later, when it
hit it did so with a vengance.  Off to the psychologist I was wizzed
only to be told how normal and healthy my reactions and the way I
was dealing with it was (lots of tears in the quiet of the night).

Ok, better scoot and get Nara off to daycare.

Lotsa big hugs coming your way today Vanessa, just remember to pick
up the phone or holler to me on messenger if you need me, that goes
for anyone on this group, I am here for you all.