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Beams to windward hull   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1009 of 6669 |
Re: Beams to windward hull

Horses for courses. It is hard to beat bamboo for ability to take
loads and torque from all directions but if the bamboo was
constrained with the load more in one direction I would imagine it
would end up more oval.
If there is no problem with torque go for an I beam. My idea for a
folding beam is based on an I beam, allowing easier load transfer
when partly folded, with judicious addition of fairing to provide
resistance to torque and fore and aft bending moment. It is tempting
to just buy some of those composite beams used in the building
industry as a start
For simplicity in building and reasonably close to optimum I would
go for a ring framed wooden box section reinforced on the corners
with carbon tow. This way the web can also act as a flange.
Fibreglass in the same circumstances would be less useful as it
stretches too much and the timber goes past its limit long before the
fibreglass takes up the strain. There may have to be some cloth
reinforcement around the beam to prevent the carbon tow from
delaminating from the timber.

I have been closely observing the Harry construction and I am most
impressed with the engineering. It seems to be based on years of sea
time and knowing what breaks, and mathematical and material analysis
on how to best achieve the strength required with building techniques
within the ability and cost of the low volume builder. I certainly
wouldn't stray from the specs. This is what you're paying the money
for.


--- In harryproa@..., "Tony Richardson"
<atrichardson@b...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> You wrote
> - You have to make a box section, nothing else is remotely
> comparable.
>
> I dissagree
> I'm no engineer but I do have a tri with round beams
> Rob and I built them in a female mould mostly of uni's
> It flies two hulls and has no seastays/wires etc
> They have a degree of flex in them though
> The beams weigh 5kg each bare.
> The boat is only 16ft but it is 15ft wide
> Rgs
> Tony




Fri Jun 4, 2004 1:21 am

cateran1949
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Message #1009 of 6669 |
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... You wrote - You have to make a box section, nothing else is remotely comparable. I dissagree I'm no engineer but I do have a tri with round beams Rob and I...
Tony Richardson
khsd16
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Jun 3, 2004
11:18 pm

Horses for courses. It is hard to beat bamboo for ability to take loads and torque from all directions but if the bamboo was constrained with the load more in...
Robert
cateran1949
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Jun 4, 2004
1:22 am

I guess I don't know really about other things that I haven't seen, tried or heard about. I wonder what you mean by ring framed etc. I built a beam (markI), ...
doha720
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Jun 4, 2004
8:39 am

G'day Tony, I'm no certified engineer either, but what I said is right. I think you are saying that you made a hollow round section beam - for a proa? - which...
doha720
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Jun 4, 2004
8:22 am

Has anyone tried an omega shape Ω or variants of that shape for beams ? I remember the small Kendrick tri (scarab) having something similar Rgs Tony ... From:...
Tony Richardson
khsd16
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Jun 4, 2004
2:02 am

Sorry Tony, Is that an upper case omega or lower case? Can you give a more detailed description? Robert -- In harryproa@..., "Tony Richardson" ...
Robert
cateran1949
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Jun 4, 2004
2:28 am

I'm not sure if upper or lower case but I tried to paste it as a symbol into the email and by the looks of it it didn't work. The symbol looks like a 0 with...
Tony Richardson
khsd16
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Jun 4, 2004
6:13 am

As in measure of electric resistance in ohms sort of shape? I wonder if that may influence the effect that the glass I beleive has of being weak in...
doha720
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Jun 4, 2004
12:43 pm

Tony, Idiosyncrsies of our medium of communication. That's the upper case omega- as used in electronics to denote resistance. The lowercase looks like a...
Robert
cateran1949
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Jun 6, 2004
11:23 am

Robert Don,t worry about the math because I think Ray is an engineer and may have done it already. I thought they might be weak torsionally but because there...
Tony Richardson
khsd16
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Jun 7, 2004
12:59 am

Thanks Robert. Yes a lot of time, effort and experience goes into each part of the design and we contract the services of a very good composite engineer with a...
Mark Stephens
markstephens...
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Jun 5, 2004
4:14 am

Mark, Is the Elementarry building method similar to the Farrier vertical foam stripping building method? (http://www.f-boat.com/pages/construction/index.html) ...
Andrew Dickson
andrew@...
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Jun 5, 2004
7:53 am

MessageNo, Ian uses form frames and glasses one side only which then requires the outside surface to be fully faired after glassing. We will be making a female...
Mark Stephens
markstephens...
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Jun 6, 2004
6:32 am

Hi DOug The reason is I didn't want seastays They cause lots of drag when underwater, add weight, cost of fittings etc, take more time to initially fit up,...
Tony Richardson
khsd16
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Jun 7, 2004
12:37 am

To Tony, I've forgotten which reply I was making to you, but I remember talking about anything hollow meaning a box as opposed to something solid. I really...
Doug Haines
doha720
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Jun 14, 2004
8:33 am

Doug, The latest design of the Harry beams based on four carbon rods on the corners gives plenty of stiffness for the driving hull effect (See Marks comments)....
Robert
cateran1949
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Jun 14, 2004
10:21 pm

Gidday Doug We were talking about sections of beams Just a question but isn't a triangle section beam the lightest possible construction design type? I like...
Tony Richardson
khsd16
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Jun 14, 2004
11:28 pm

Tony, The extended bunk version is also my choice. Add to the list 'able to be transported relatively easily'. I plan to leave mine on the hard on my block...
Robert
cateran1949
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Jun 15, 2004
2:49 am

Tony, What do you mean you were talking about sections of beams? It sounded like a solid slab of timber - as in the '60's hartley plan! Weighed beam 1 today...
Doug Haines
doha720
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Jun 15, 2004
8:30 am

... (perpedicular ) strength except some glass in these photos as it seems kiri + carbon longditudinal? Doug, That much Kiri, prevented from buckling or being...
Robert
cateran1949
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Jun 16, 2004
1:16 am

Dear Robert, This is coming from a student remember - but I think you are talking about vertical shear which yes is not much. I'm talking about longitudinal...
Doug Haines
doha720
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Jun 16, 2004
8:39 am

Doug, I am not the engineer, merely someone who has a background in maths and physics and has followed the engineering of the Harry fairly closely. The...
Robert
cateran1949
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Jun 16, 2004
9:33 am

Doug , I went back to my books and did the arithmetic. Apologies, There is a fair bit sheer and I don't know how much Kiri can handle. I recall when I was...
Robert
cateran1949
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Jun 16, 2004
11:51 pm

Hi, Thanks for the understanding replies. DOug Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote: Doug , I went back to my books and did the arithmetic. Apologies, There...
Doug Haines
doha720
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Jun 17, 2004
8:22 am

Hi Doug, You are correct in saying there is significant longitudinal shear at the midpoint of the shear webs. I'm afraid the engineers we used at the time the ...
Mark Stephens
markstephens...
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Jun 16, 2004
10:32 am

G'day, The Visionarry in the pictures is being built by Mark and his team in Coffs Harbour. I have just got back from there and it looks fantastic. The...
Rob Denney
proaharry
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Jun 18, 2004
9:41 pm

I tend to favor the ballestron rig for reasons I have pointed out previously one less mast to build simplicity ease of handling etc The only disadvantage I see...
Tony Richardson
khsd16
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Jun 15, 2004
3:38 am

I must admit I like the idea of the single lightly loaded sheet of the Ballestron when the jib is up but when reefing do you put on a smaller jib for balance...
Robert
cateran1949
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Jun 15, 2004
5:10 am

... From: Tony Richardson To: harryproa@... Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 1:29 AM Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Beams to windward hull Gidday Doug...
Brian Southwood
pbsouthwood
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Jun 15, 2004
12:52 pm

... possible construction design type? ... but I cant think of one offhand. I worked on a crane with a boom based on a triangular section truss. Also many...
Robert
cateran1949
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Jun 16, 2004
12:12 am
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