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Reply | Forward Message #2477 of 6622 |
Re: Biplane rig or Not?


Hi Ben ,


It's not really a biplane rig. To compare it to somthing if one
needs to . Its more like a cutter rig. The frame work that it hangs
on predicts the sails cant to windward at various rotatation of the
rig fore and aft.

The biplane rigs try and achieve seperate air flow from both sails
right . The double A frame rig has the two sails working as one.
Having the benifit of sail area with a lower COE and canted to wind
ward to produce lift possibly and or achieving greater range before
reefing is needed.

Todd


--- In harryproa@..., "brag_rotor" <brag_rotor@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Todd,
>
> Found your pix and now I get it!
>
> Biplanes are fun - I've only ever played with the more mundane
> catamaran with goalposts approach - the sail area needed usually
> forces the hulls far apart due to the sail cord and the need to
> minimise biplane-type interference between the sails.
>
> Very interesting. Thanks.
>
> All the best, Ben
>
>
> --- In harryproa@..., "Todd" <snyder2016@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Ben,
> >
> > I agree nothing is perfect but building a rigid enough frame,
could
> > even use wing shaped spars on the lower and windward side of the
> > frame to reduce drag of the expose frame. and useing battens as
> > shown on the model would increase stability of sails for your
> > variables mentioned.
> >
> > I'd really like to make the Rig free satnding. But havn't
worked
> > out if the extra weight or the geometry will allow it. If not
only
> > four wires for standing rigging under low loads are needed.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> > --- In harryproa@..., "brag_rotor" <brag_rotor@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Todd,
> > >
> > > ....afaik the 'curved plate' of a 'perfect' foresail is as
good as
> > it
> > > gets, if (and only if) the foil is 'perfectly' aligned to the
flow.
> > >
> > > In an imperfect world (boat movement, gusts, wind shear, sail
> > > cut/twist, crew member errors, dozy skippers) the rounded
leading
> > edge
> > > of a classical airfoil can work well over a much larger range
of
> > > angles of attack - as it needs to.
> > >
> > > ..am still struggling with dialup here, been purging several
> > thousand
> > > spam emails from the system..... <sigh>
> > >
> > > Your rig sounds interesting.
> > >
> > > All the best, Ben
> <snip>
>





Mon Apr 2, 2007 7:07 pm

tsstproa
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Message #2477 of 6622 |
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Hi Everyone, This is a mysterious computer glitch. Ben and I are trying to discover the cause of the multiple posts. Apologies to everyone and thanks for your...
michele_balharry
michele_balh...
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Mar 30, 2007
12:12 am

Hi Ben , It's not really a biplane rig. To compare it to somthing if one needs to . Its more like a cutter rig. The frame work that it hangs on predicts the...
Todd
tsstproa
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Apr 2, 2007
7:08 pm

Hey Ben, To further my explanation of rig comparison. I looked up cutter rig. I found mast aft cutter http://www.runningtideyachts.com/sail/ Now just turn the...
Todd
tsstproa
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Apr 4, 2007
5:52 pm

Hello Robert, Yes, the dutch 'botters' (or similar name?) that were the inspiration for that gaff do indeed have a curved gaff - the straight one is a ...
brag_rotor
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Mar 10, 2007
2:58 am

G'day, I like the idea of an unstayed mast especially on a boat that doesn't need to have gobs of sail area to attain good overall speed. Works just as well on...
Rob Denney
proaharry
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Mar 2, 2007
4:59 pm

Good points, Rob. Our experience (mostly in the Wharram community) is that the cost is often more a function of fit-out than boat design. Our Tiki30 was...
brag_rotor
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Mar 10, 2007
10:52 pm

A gaff on a carbon mast shouldn't be a problem. I have got one myself, and I did treated it badly at first. It seems to be very strong. Sail shape is very much...
Rudolf vd Brug
rudolfvdbrug
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Mar 2, 2007
9:07 pm

G'day, I have yet to see a professionally built "traditional design, shunting outrigger canoe" (tdsoc)with 2 double bunks, sheltered cockpit, showroom finish...
Rob Denney
proaharry
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Mar 3, 2007
3:21 am

Hello Rob, On your 12 and 15 meter boats and the why you have in the past desribe the build process and minimal materials used in the construction with almost...
Todd
tsstproa
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Mar 3, 2007
8:20 pm

Todd, It's nice to see some boats for comparison. The Reynolds and Wharram are both great boats at what they do, but aren't really great at what the...
Mike Crawford
jmichaelcraw...
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Mar 5, 2007
1:37 pm

Hello Mike, Thanks for your time and effort of your take on the comparison. To me the comparison and what I believe single outrigger shunters are your last...
Todd
tsstproa
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Mar 5, 2007
6:05 pm

G'day, Like I said, lets compare apples and apples. You will not find a near new 12m/40' cat with the same level of finish and gear as Rare Bird for less...
Rob Denney
proaharry
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Mar 4, 2007
1:20 pm

HI, I'd like to take a point of view of appreciating boats as individual creations that appeal to thier owners in a special way. But Rob's right - harryproas...
Doug Haines
doha720
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Mar 4, 2007
4:21 pm

No you all ready noted the custom fit out of the owner builder. I'm reffering to the boats built in aus. barebones 12m built to sail whats the price? Is that...
Todd
tsstproa
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Mar 4, 2007
8:23 pm

G'day, I don't know barebones prices as there are so many variables. For some reason, builders and designers have stopped answering my questions about their...
Rob Denney
proaharry
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Mar 5, 2007
2:44 pm

G'day, Well said! regards, Rob ... From: Todd To: harryproa@... Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 2:05 AM Subject: [harryproa] Re: Aerodynamics and...
Rob Denney
proaharry
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Mar 6, 2007
3:37 am

Kite photography pretty amazing. The guy on the mono is in the Transpac next year, will be good to see what gear he has. where are the double A frame photos? ...
Rob Denney
proaharry
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Mar 17, 2007
11:05 am

Have a look at camrig.com for some examples. They give you some specs on camereas being small enough with long enough footage to be worth while 1000 photo's...
Todd
tsstproa
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Mar 17, 2007
8:32 pm

Hey Rob, Have a look in files section it let me post them there. I used two pics of Elementary to show the concept on one of your boat designs. Hope that...
Todd
tsstproa
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Mar 18, 2007
4:49 am

G'day, Thanks for the camera stuff. We can almost afford that. The double A frame looks interesting. My thoughts are that I try to only put simpler set ups...
Rob Denney
proaharry
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Mar 19, 2007
1:21 pm
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