Hi Doug

Sorry, I'm on the Texas coast, below Houston. I have a 21' proa, I
put a couple of pictures of my boat in the non-Harry folder in the
Photos section. The rig shown is a Gibbons-Dierking rig, it was quite
fast but not very easy to handle in a breeze, and I've switched to a
schooner rig of about 130 ft^2 (about 12 m^2). I've also made some
more substantial beams that make the boat 8' wide, so I can trailer it
put together, and a bigger ama. I don't want to divert discussion in
the Harry group, but feel free to come over to the proa_file group if
you want to chat more about it. I've had a small trailer mishap, so
I'm picking up a galvanized cat trailer Tuesday and should be sailing
again in a week or so, I'll write up a report and post some pictures
with the new rig over there.

Elementharry is similar enough to my boat to make me interested in
where the rudders are and what the overall beam is, how all that
changes how the boat sails, trouble with handling at slow speeds and
all that. I thought when I saw the rudders on the beams, based on how
my boat acts, that they were not far back enough, but thought that
maybe with the schooner rig you could get away with it by only
sheeting in the foresail when coming out of a shunt.

Sorry about having to re-do all that work. Part of having an
experimental boat, I guess.

Your trip sounds like fun, I'm taking a short cruise after my semester
is done at the end of June, in Laguna Madre from Port Isabel to
Corpus. Just a few days, nothing like your three weeks, sadly.
Here's a neat set of pics I just found, if you're interested:

http://www.texmaps.com/aerials/14southern-laguna-madre/

and

http://www.texmaps.com/aerials/13land-cut-to-port-mansfield/index.html

Thanks for the reply,

Kevin

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> G;Day Kevin,
>
> You should put in where you are from and what area you could get to
sail in so we know more about who is out there.
>
> I had a really interesting 3 weeks cruising up and down our west
coast, before coming in to do the renovations.
>
> I'm planning to sail Perth to Cairns in November. I've been building
a couple of boats before but wanted the Elementarry more than any
other so am lucky to have Rob around.
>
> Understanding some physics/sailing problems as well as the
construction techniques is basically how one comes to appreciate Rob's
design.
>
> Redoing the boat has involved alot of grinding and some working
inside the tight spaces of the narrow hull. Hopefully others will
benefit from trial and error and not have to change there own Elementarry.
>
> From Mark's drawing Ihave changed the rudder position and method of
attachment, basically just moving it back off the beams onto the hull,
where it was before just about maybe a bit further back than the
original design but a long way back compared to where I had thenm on
the beams. The reason for this is to steer better, more resonsive and
quicker to turnparticularily when coming out of a shunt and trying to
bear away. You see the steering itself is better the further back you
have the rudder, but also the further back the rudder is then more of
the sail area is forward of the rudder, so making the boat more likely
to bear away. So two problems sort of solve themselves there.
>
> I had to cut two holes and install a bulkhead as you can see. The
glass dust killsafter a while.
>
> I don't like wasting the previous work done. It should have been
done right in the first place, hopefully future elementarry builders
will get the latest version.
>
> I also had not realised that the beams where meant to telescope all
the way inside each other hence the small side and the big side. Rob
never does this when I go down to the boat ramp with him, so what
would actually work more efificiently is a slighly different set up,
but I realised that only later last week or so.
>
> My other changes were a bigger mast tube by only 7mm diameter, but
this gives 30percent more strength I think I worked it out. This was
90mm. The other one is 83. That gives a mast end of 85mm compared to
78mm minus a mill of gawhich I like to fill in with grease stops
sticky squeeking.
>
> I've got another 2-3 weeks till relaunch, using old masts temporarily.
> The new beams were half weight at about 12kg, and the new deck will
be about half weight using polycore 19mm.
> I reduced the deck area down to 2sqms from 2.4sqms..
>
> I'm spending more on the carbon and polycore and saving weight
compared to the cheaper kiri wood and glass structure before.
>
> I never used a GPS but could estimate speeds over a distance and
although i got a good 7,8,9 knots as an average on a good day, it
seems like the potential is there if I get the weight down , improve
the masts and add a few extra metres of sail area.
> It is such a small boat that sailing in a sea is always going to be
wet riding, I really look at sailing up or down the coast with and
offshore wind, preferably broad reaching, this is extremely easy and
by far the quickest point. I was relaxed dry level sailing in the
sunshine enjoying the new coast line that I had never seen on the way
to Bunbury,which is mostly sand dunes but new territory to me. The
rest of that triip wa a bit of testing time of it, changeable winds
with no easy days like that first one which I was waiting and watching
the weather forecasts before starting.
>
> I new I wanted the small camper/cruiser. Its so little trouble to
pull out /put in ,anchor, build, afford, but still gets anywhere you
want pretty much, like whats to stop one from continuing along the
coast, like in WA if there are easterlies its fine offshore winds ,
maybe a little swell usually 1-2m or more like 3-4m but hat just makes
it more interesting.
> I was sailing straight over reefs and dodging past breakers,
probably because I like surfing.
>
> The best place out heere is Rottnest Island (Dutch for the little
Quokka like mini Kangaroos there), no cars, just bicycles and a bus,
hell surf, and a bit of a golf course.
> Down South is the other place to go to get waves though there is no
anchorage on that stretch of coast (except in Summer).
>
> Although I am honoured to one of the first to have a harryproa it
would be good to relate to other sailors with similar boats.
>
> From
> Doug
>
>
> k_s_oneill <K_S_ONeill@...> wrote:
--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Douglas Alexander Frank Haines"
> <doha720@> wrote:
> >
> > Could I get some feedback on the construction photos or my trip
photos
> > please.
>
> Hi Doug
>
> Sure. Nice photos. :)
>
> Seriously, the whole thing is very interesting to me. Can you talk
> some more about the boat? I think you changed the plans some, right?
> What did you do differently? What changes are you making now?
>
> The skinny little mast bases freak me out on an unstayed mast, but I
> figured they were ok since it was all carbon and so on. Then I read
> something you wrote that there was no carbon in them? Are they just
> glass?
>
> Rob, is this strong enough? Why are the base tubes so skinny?
>
> I'm very interested in how the boat handled and how the rudders
> worked. If you shunt from a broad reach, so on the new tack you're
> pointing pretty high, can you sheet in the forward sail and bear off
> under the rudder ok? Or do you have to bear off to a beam reach
> before you shunt? Have you ever tacked the boat and gone aback? If
> so, how does that work, did you sail it back around or use a paddle?
>
> Rob, do the rudders on an elementarry still end up on the beams after
> you shunt the boat? Is this far enough back, do you think?
>
> So you're cutting the beams now, how wide will the boat be when you're
> done?
>
> Really, the pictures are great, the video was great, it looks like
> you're having a good ride. The little camper ama looks very useful.
>
> best
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>
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