Hi

We've been sailing every two weeks or so all winter, changing the rig
some and messing with the rudders. Getting ready for this:

www.texas200.com

which should be fun. How do you like the hard bimini?

Kevin

--- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Kevin,
>
> Did you go proaing in your break?
>
> "Your trip sounds like fun, I'm taking a short cruise after my
semester
> > is done at the end of June, in Laguna Madre from Port Isabel to
> > Corpus. Just a few days, nothing like your three weeks, sadly.
> > Here's a neat set of pics I just found, if you're interested:"
>
> Doug
>
>
> k_s_oneill <K_S_ONeill@...> wrote:
> Hi
>
> The new rig has a single windward stay. 2 feet of bury in the hull,
> which I'm sure is less than Elementarry. I made the hull a few years
> ago, and put a bit of rocker in, which takes volume out of the ends.
> If I had it to do today I'd put no rocker in. Aside from that I like
> the hull shape, it's a very fine entry and pretty high beams. I like
> the high beams on a Hobie 16, I was after something like that.
>
> I can sit right at the lee hull as I think I am in the picture, but
> only in really light air. As soon as I get a puff I scoot back to the
> middle of the tramp, and then back to the seat over the ww hull. I
> have a couple of extending aluminum handles made for paint rollers
> that open out to ten feet long. The boat's beam was 11', now it's 8',
> so I may make a seat to sit out to ww of the ww hull if it feels
> twitchy now.
>
> Kevin
>
> --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> >
> > I am a little unsure about other designs like your proa as it looks
> quite diffrent to elementarry. Perhaps the rig is now similar to mine,
> but not free standing? Not too much bury in there.
> > Elementarry has plenty of bury , plenty of buoyancy and very fine
> entry and exit. Beams are very high up out of the water, and the deck
> is big and dry (unless lots of spray sort of day).
> > Rig is real easy to control - although four diffrent very long
> sheets are a bit messy.
> > I guess you swing the forestay(pole) around to shunt, or was that
> too hard?
> > The main diffrence is of course, do you sit out on the ww hull with
> tiller poles?
> > My sail battens were too stiff then too weak, so thats another
> improvement.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > k_s_oneill <K_S_ONeill@> wrote:
> Hi Doug
> >
> > Sorry, I'm on the Texas coast, below Houston. I have a 21' proa, I
> > put a couple of pictures of my boat in the non-Harry folder in the
> > Photos section. The rig shown is a Gibbons-Dierking rig, it was quite
> > fast but not very easy to handle in a breeze, and I've switched to a
> > schooner rig of about 130 ft^2 (about 12 m^2). I've also made some
> > more substantial beams that make the boat 8' wide, so I can trailer it
> > put together, and a bigger ama. I don't want to divert discussion in
> > the Harry group, but feel free to come over to the proa_file group if
> > you want to chat more about it. I've had a small trailer mishap, so
> > I'm picking up a galvanized cat trailer Tuesday and should be sailing
> > again in a week or so, I'll write up a report and post some pictures
> > with the new rig over there.
> >
> > Elementharry is similar enough to my boat to make me interested in
> > where the rudders are and what the overall beam is, how all that
> > changes how the boat sails, trouble with handling at slow speeds and
> > all that. I thought when I saw the rudders on the beams, based on how
> > my boat acts, that they were not far back enough, but thought that
> > maybe with the schooner rig you could get away with it by only
> > sheeting in the foresail when coming out of a shunt.
> >
> > Sorry about having to re-do all that work. Part of having an
> > experimental boat, I guess.
> >
> > Your trip sounds like fun, I'm taking a short cruise after my semester
> > is done at the end of June, in Laguna Madre from Port Isabel to
> > Corpus. Just a few days, nothing like your three weeks, sadly.
> > Here's a neat set of pics I just found, if you're interested:
> >
> > http://www.texmaps.com/aerials/14southern-laguna-madre/
> >
> > and
> >
> > http://www.texmaps.com/aerials/13land-cut-to-port-mansfield/index.html
> >
> > Thanks for the reply,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@> wrote:
> > >
> > > G;Day Kevin,
> > >
> > > You should put in where you are from and what area you could get to
> > sail in so we know more about who is out there.
> > >
> > > I had a really interesting 3 weeks cruising up and down our west
> > coast, before coming in to do the renovations.
> > >
> > > I'm planning to sail Perth to Cairns in November. I've been building
> > a couple of boats before but wanted the Elementarry more than any
> > other so am lucky to have Rob around.
> > >
> > > Understanding some physics/sailing problems as well as the
> > construction techniques is basically how one comes to appreciate Rob's
> > design.
> > >
> > > Redoing the boat has involved alot of grinding and some working
> > inside the tight spaces of the narrow hull. Hopefully others will
> > benefit from trial and error and not have to change there own
> Elementarry.
> > >
> > > From Mark's drawing Ihave changed the rudder position and method of
> > attachment, basically just moving it back off the beams onto the hull,
> > where it was before just about maybe a bit further back than the
> > original design but a long way back compared to where I had thenm on
> > the beams. The reason for this is to steer better, more resonsive and
> > quicker to turnparticularily when coming out of a shunt and trying to
> > bear away. You see the steering itself is better the further back you
> > have the rudder, but also the further back the rudder is then more of
> > the sail area is forward of the rudder, so making the boat more likely
> > to bear away. So two problems sort of solve themselves there.
> > >
> > > I had to cut two holes and install a bulkhead as you can see. The
> > glass dust killsafter a while.
> > >
> > > I don't like wasting the previous work done. It should have been
> > done right in the first place, hopefully future elementarry builders
> > will get the latest version.
> > >
> > > I also had not realised that the beams where meant to telescope all
> > the way inside each other hence the small side and the big side. Rob
> > never does this when I go down to the boat ramp with him, so what
> > would actually work more efificiently is a slighly different set up,
> > but I realised that only later last week or so.
> > >
> > > My other changes were a bigger mast tube by only 7mm diameter, but
> > this gives 30percent more strength I think I worked it out. This was
> > 90mm. The other one is 83. That gives a mast end of 85mm compared to
> > 78mm minus a mill of gawhich I like to fill in with grease stops
> > sticky squeeking.
> > >
> > > I've got another 2-3 weeks till relaunch, using old masts
> temporarily.
> > > The new beams were half weight at about 12kg, and the new deck will
> > be about half weight using polycore 19mm.
> > > I reduced the deck area down to 2sqms from 2.4sqms..
> > >
> > > I'm spending more on the carbon and polycore and saving weight
> > compared to the cheaper kiri wood and glass structure before.
> > >
> > > I never used a GPS but could estimate speeds over a distance and
> > although i got a good 7,8,9 knots as an average on a good day, it
> > seems like the potential is there if I get the weight down , improve
> > the masts and add a few extra metres of sail area.
> > > It is such a small boat that sailing in a sea is always going to be
> > wet riding, I really look at sailing up or down the coast with and
> > offshore wind, preferably broad reaching, this is extremely easy and
> > by far the quickest point. I was relaxed dry level sailing in the
> > sunshine enjoying the new coast line that I had never seen on the way
> > to Bunbury,which is mostly sand dunes but new territory to me. The
> > rest of that triip wa a bit of testing time of it, changeable winds
> > with no easy days like that first one which I was waiting and watching
> > the weather forecasts before starting.
> > >
> > > I new I wanted the small camper/cruiser. Its so little trouble to
> > pull out /put in ,anchor, build, afford, but still gets anywhere you
> > want pretty much, like whats to stop one from continuing along the
> > coast, like in WA if there are easterlies its fine offshore winds ,
> > maybe a little swell usually 1-2m or more like 3-4m but hat just makes
> > it more interesting.
> > > I was sailing straight over reefs and dodging past breakers,
> > probably because I like surfing.
> > >
> > > The best place out heere is Rottnest Island (Dutch for the little
> > Quokka like mini Kangaroos there), no cars, just bicycles and a bus,
> > hell surf, and a bit of a golf course.
> > > Down South is the other place to go to get waves though there is no
> > anchorage on that stretch of coast (except in Summer).
> > >
> > > Although I am honoured to one of the first to have a harryproa it
> > would be good to relate to other sailors with similar boats.
> > >
> > > From
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >
> > > k_s_oneill <K_S_ONeill@> wrote:
> > --- In harryproa@..., "Douglas Alexander Frank Haines"
> > > <doha720@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Could I get some feedback on the construction photos or my trip
> > photos
> > > > please.
> > >
> > > Hi Doug
> > >
> > > Sure. Nice photos. :)
> > >
> > > Seriously, the whole thing is very interesting to me. Can you talk
> > > some more about the boat? I think you changed the plans some,
> right?
> > > What did you do differently? What changes are you making now?
> > >
> > > The skinny little mast bases freak me out on an unstayed mast, but I
> > > figured they were ok since it was all carbon and so on. Then I read
> > > something you wrote that there was no carbon in them? Are they just
> > > glass?
> > >
> > > Rob, is this strong enough? Why are the base tubes so skinny?
> > >
> > > I'm very interested in how the boat handled and how the rudders
> > > worked. If you shunt from a broad reach, so on the new tack you're
> > > pointing pretty high, can you sheet in the forward sail and bear off
> > > under the rudder ok? Or do you have to bear off to a beam reach
> > > before you shunt? Have you ever tacked the boat and gone aback? If
> > > so, how does that work, did you sail it back around or use a paddle?
> > >
> > > Rob, do the rudders on an elementarry still end up on the beams
> after
> > > you shunt the boat? Is this far enough back, do you think?
> > >
> > > So you're cutting the beams now, how wide will the boat be when
> you're
> > > done?
> > >
> > > Really, the pictures are great, the video was great, it looks like
> > > you're having a good ride. The little camper ama looks very useful.
> > >
> > > best
> > >
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis
> > of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail
> Championship.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less,
> sign up for your freeaccount today.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Inbox.
>