I am trying very hard to not have to disassemble the boat for shipping. With the 4.5' overlap on the cockpit and lw hull, the two hulls can be locked together even with the crossbeams removed, so getting it in/out of the container is mostly a exercise in sliding it in/out.
In terms of hull flare, the lw hull really doesn't need to be 3' wide, other than to hold the bunks. I thought construction would be simple if the hull just sloped out from a 2' waterline beam to a 3' beam at the bunk height, but keeping the lw hull narrower and just having a shelf stick out for the cabin areas is another option. How do I evaluate the better method?
I like Rob's idea of the rollers for getting it in/out of the container. I really only anticipate using the container for shipping the boat overseas, and I probably don't need a trailer there. That really helps the height issue; I might even be able to use a standard container, instead of a high-cube if I don't try to put the trailer in it.
I'm glad someone looked at the rudders also. The main issue with them that I have not figured out is how to actually control the steering with them. Should I just put a short tiller extension on top of the rudder shaft and then have LONG fiberglass extension rods? They would have to be about 11' long. I am concerned with them getting entangled with the main sheets, and also what damage the rigid rods might cause if the rudder breaks free due to a collision.
I am also happy with the idea of mounting the dinghy right across the midbeam. I never could find a way to have a large enough dinghy when mounted across the beam. I would like something on the order of 10-12' for the load carrying ability (minimum of 600 lbs, including the engine). I have a special idea for a rigid catamaran dinghy with detachable bows that would fit into the container with the boat, that i hope to get drawn up soon.
Do you know anything about the use of shipping containers? If I park this at a marina or my house, how do I get it on/off a truck? Can it just be propped up to the right height or does there need to be a crane whereever I need to load/unload it? If I go with Rob's idea of just buying my own container, it is expensive to store? How about transporting it to/from the water? These are all industrial type questions that I have had a very hard time getting answered as an individual.
- Gardner
On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 1:25 AM, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
-Sorry for the previous non post.
Nice rendition and some nice ideas. I like the rudder systems. I
think it may be possible to go one stage further by having a
disposable pit on the lw side of the upper pin and a the ww side of
the lower. This would allow excessive side loads an escape rather than
the rudder shafts. Though it is always difficult to produce a fuse
that breaks when you want it to but not when you don't.
I have been playing around with designs to get the boat easily within
towing widths rather than container widths. I would not go lower in
height with the lw hull but consider as Rob suggests, turning the lw
hull on its side and tucking it under the wing deck. This would allow
about 5' in height. The other suggestion, that of turning the boat on
its side, is doable. I worked out a system of rollers to make this
easy and gentle. My idea for ww accommodation is to have the double
berths sideways with kick out foot lockers to get the width. I also
had the cockpit area hinged to go back into the ww hull
This way you can get the hull width down to less than 7'and still
have a cabin, a bunk and a wider cockpit. I prefer to have my bunks
sideways for sailing at 20 knots, in case of a sudden stop. I also
flared out the lw hull to just accommodate a couple of cosy doubles.
This is probably unnecessary and makes it much harder to get within
the width and height restrictions.
Robert> It seems as soon as I finish one layout idea and post it, another
pops up.
> If I assume that my mast will be 39' or less, how much height in the
lw hull
> is required to support them? It occurs to me that I could make the
lw hull
> smaller and lower and the ww hull deck wider and slide right over
the top of
> the lw hull if I could get away with about 3' of support for the
masts. Is
> that enough?
> - Gardner
>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Rob Denney <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> > .
> > >
> > > There are a few features I would be particularly interested in
getting
> > feedback on. Fitting a
> > > boat like this into a container while sitting on its trailer is
a tight
> > squeeze. Since the
> > > preferred building technique is bending large flat panels, one
issue is
> > the tolerances of
> > > dimensions for the final boats. Assuming that a professional
builder (I
> > am thinking the
> > > chinese yard Rob is currently dealing with), if the design calls
for a
> > boat that collapses to
> > > 7'6", how likely is it that it will end up at 7'7" or even 7'8"?
An inch
> > or two may make all
> > > the difference in terms of getting it through the container door.
> >
> > The build technique can certainly handle that level of precision. I
> > am assured that the qc in China is excellent. If the width is part of
> > the spec, then if they don't achieve it, they will have to start
> > again. However, achieving it is pretty simple as the flat panels are
> > placed in frames, which can be very accurate.
> > >
> > > Another question deals with maneuvering the trailer. Is it
reasonable to
> > think that one (not
> > > me, some other one) could back a 39' boat, 7'6" wide into a 39'6"
> > container, 7'8" wide? Is
> > > that really enough margin?
> >
> > Not really, but it could be done. I would put pieces of foam down the
> > sides and let it rub against them. Need to think about trailer design
> > as well. If it will need a crane to assemble it and/or put it in/out
> > of the water, you may be better off using rollers to get it in and
> > out. An inch each side will be plenty if this is done. I would also
> > buy your own container rather than use a different one each time.
> > Allows you to customise it.
> > >
> > > The aspect ratio of the sails is another question. With the
schooner rig,
> > I am hoping to
> > > keep the masts at 39'. The boom will be about 9' from the
bottom, so I
> > could have a 30'
> > > luff, and a 10' foot. With a full roach, I am thinking I might
get 225 sq
> > ft per sail, or 450
> > > sq ft overall. Is this adequate? Is the rig too squat to work well?
> >
> > Depends what the boat weighs, but top of my head I would say you are
> > probably ok. Harry has 450 sq' and seems to get along ok. I usually
> > work on 80% plus for the roach, so that is 240 sq' per sail.
> > >
> > > I gather from other discussions that the chinese version of
Rapscallion
> > is estimate to run
> > > about $30K. I am hoping to bring this in just a little over;
maybe $40K.
> > Any opinions on
> > > my rationality?
> >
> > Another data point: The 15m hulls, decks, beams and cabin, joined and
> > painted quote is $47,000. Fitout, rig and steering to be added.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> >
>
Offline 
Send Email