I wouldn't normally have thought about comparing a Harryproa against a
Gunboat. The Gunboat is supposed to be about speed and accommodation
for big money but when I noticed the 'real world' reaching speed in a
bit of a sea for a Gunboat 48 in a race in the Carribean, I was not
impressed, especially for the money. I did not think it performed as
well as a Schionning waterline for much less money. Or, for that
matter, a cruising Harryproa such as Rare Bird. Given a simple choice,
not taking into account the money aspect, I actually think I would go
for an Australian performance cruising multihull over a Gunboat after
seeing examples of its performance in real conditions. There may have
been extenuating circumstance but I haven't heard them yet

Money no limit for a performance cruising boat, I wouldn't want to go
more than a 60' Harry as the ability to cruise into small places is
reduced. I don't see much advantage in going all carbon and nomex as
the payload is already a high proportion of the sailing weight and
there are other materials that are tougher, if not as stiff. Part of
the value of a Harry is that most of the boat doesn't have to be
especially stiff to take the sailing loads. At 60' there is plenty of
accommodation, reasonable load carrying capacity and any bigger it
starts to become a hassle keeping the place clean and a handful to
dock single handed.

So ,
Money no limit, I would probably go for a 55-60'lw hull 36-40' ww
hull with a reasonable bridge deck, basalt fibre skinned over
polypropylene honeycomb with an extra internal skin of kevlar and
judicious use of carbon where needed (resilience and impact
resistance). I would consider J Taylors wing mast concept or two
telescoping wing masts. I would try to keep the sailing weight down to
3 tonnes, total displacement to 5 tonnes, and have working sail are of
about 110-140m2 or 2/3 that for a wing. I would possibly use a light
coloured bamboo veneer on the inside of the accommodation area,
providing excellent strength to weight and good looks as well. Apart
from the wings, it could probably be built from less than half of the
Gunboat 48 to a pretty high quality finish with all the extra
dooverlackies I might want for comfort. I believe it would sail so
much better than a Gunboat in any sort of sea, which is where a
cruising boat has to make good and be much more seaworthy and
comfortable.

This is only 10-20% longer than I plan to build anyway for under $A50
000 in materials (itemising all the bits came to approximately $31 500
so 60% more for the bits I can't think of).
150m2 of skin and bulkheads at $A50/m2, $7 500;
140kg of carbon tow $A6000 for masts, rudderstocks, rudders,
occasional reinforcing;
another 250kg of glass, basalt and resin $3000,
extra materials for crossbeams $2000
polycarbonate for windows and hatches $1000;
winches, sails, strings and ground tackle, depending what I can find
2nd hand$5000
hatches if I can't be stuffed making them $2000
outboard $2500
Safety gear $2000. navigation lights, internal lights, wiring and
compass $400
Solar panels and battery $1000
fairing, sandpaper and paint $400- I like it smooth underwater and a
non slip surface to walk on, but am not too fussed about perfection.

Extra for cruising
Compost toilet and hand pump solar shower.$400
small gas cooker plus bottle above waterline with drainage to outside $100
geotek fabric for under mattresses and mattresses $400
. If the admiral starts to have a hand in the comfort aspects of it it
could easily blow out another $20 000.




-- In harryproa@..., andrew fennell <amfitrite@...> wrote:
>
> I think what you get with a gunboat is 2 of Dick Newick's famous
tryptic:
>
> ie Speed and Accomodation
>
> The price you pay is, well, the price you pay! You also (I imagine, not
> having seen one close up) probably get a superb quality production boat
> finish (as opposed to a poor production boat finish -I'm sure we've seen
> plenty of those) and probably superb back up in terms of
after-sales....ok
> I'm guessing now!
>
> Trying to compare a gunboat to a harryproa for me is not really
viable (my
> opinion - no offence Robert!) They are just so different, Rob Denney's
> concept -I believe- is much more about the other Newick configuration
>
> ie Speed and Low-cost
>
> coupled with build-simplicity (definitely not a newick quality) and
> system-simplicity...
>
> I'm not saying that Harryproa's don't have accomodation - they do
but not on
> the scale of the gunboat..
>
> --
> I'll leave this with an interesting question:
>
> If you had gunboat money would you spend it on an all-carbon
> supersize-harryproa or a gunboat. (Answers on the back of a
fag-packet down
> the pub please!)
>
> andyf
> ps hello Mr Denney, hope all is well - congrats on getting the first
boats
> done in china, no mean feat!
>
>
>
> 2009/2/28 Robert <cateran1949@...>
>
> > I love Rare Bird and suspect it might have the best motion and I get
> > seasick, but would be glad to be on any one of them
> >
> >
> > --- In harryproa@...
<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>, Doug
> > Haines <doha720@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I hear that the Gunboat is a normal cat but all carbon so expensive
> > and quicker?
> > > Still you could save weight in areas other than hull material, etc.
> > Chucking stuff out for a race like water, fuel gear would change .
> > > Hope HP's are going to try hard in B-G.
> > > Which of the popssible 3 boats over there would you want to be on?
> > > HArigami might be fun.
> > >
> > > --- On Sat, 28/2/09, Robert <cateran1949@> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Robert <cateran1949@>
> > > Subject: [harryproa] Re: contrast Rare Bird with gunboat
> > > To: harryproa@... <harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>
> > > Date: Saturday, 28 February, 2009, 12:16 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Looking at the sailing performance of the gunboat recently, I was
> > > disappointed in its speed on a close reach. I have been hesitant to
> > > compare one to a Vis, but I suspect that a Vis could outperform
it in
> > > similar conditions, being better able to maintain drive in choppy
> > > conditions. I also suspect that many of the Australasian performance
> > > cruisers would do at least as well at less than half the price.
Cross
> > > fingers for at least one entry in the Gladstone race to see how the
> > > performance compares.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>