I notice that you didn't list budget as one of you criteria <grin>.
That seems to be my primary constraint at the moment, which leads me
to try to find something that I think I might be able to build myself.
I can't get the admiral to take out a big boat loan for something as
radical as this without some real hands on with it. Maybe in 5 years,
but we are running out of time on deciding what to do, or I will be
too old and feeble to sail it.

I have my "liveaboard" design, the latest rev of which I *really*
like, but it is just too big for me to build by myself, I think. I
started to layout panels for the boat to measure the amount of
foam/fiberglass I would need and a very quick estimate is 2.5 times as
much as the harrigami class boat. Since I would not be able to build
it myself, I would guess that it would cost a minimum of 5 times as
much as what I am going with, so that isn't an option at the moment. I
figure I can probably scrape up $10K for the hulls and another $10K
for the beams/sails and mimal equipment for this boat over the next
couple years, and then I will own it, instead of the bank owning it.

In terms of trailerability, that is a tough question. Oddly, I really
never plan on trailering it. I have 2 primary interests, both of which
just fall into the trailerable category. The chesapeake bay is a petri
dish; a carpet can grow on the bottom of a boat in a couple weeks, so
I want to put the boat up on a lift. All the lifts I have see for wide
boats (16-20 ft) are for 50,000 lb boats and cost accordingly. Also, I
have a dock, but a 20' wide boat won't fit in the slips. This means
that on-water collapsing of the beam would be beneficial.

The other criteria is that I would really like to sail europe and the
south pacific, but I don't know that a boat of this size will really
have the storage capacity for that type of voyage, so the ability to
ship it over is appealing.

What I should probably look into is just moving a couple pilings on my
dock and getting a small capacity boat lift and replace the beams and
cables with longer ones, and have the boat demountable.

It is also possible that I should learn more about shipping a boat
some other way than a container, but the numbers I have seen for the
float on/off ships exceed the price of the boat. Maybe if I can
demount it, but not put it in a container, that would be a more
reasonable compromise. Not sure how to find out about that.

- Gardner

On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mike Crawford <jmichael@...> wrote:
>
>   I hesitate to say I'm going with any boat, because that would imply
> action, and that's not likely to happen this year.
>
>   If I had to choose, I'd go for a Harry-class boat with the largest cockpit
> that will allow it to collapse down to a 12' beam, with the same
> shape/design/interior of the Harry, and an easyrig tall enough to get the
> boat to an SA/D of 60 to 70 when loaded with two people, motor, fuel, and
> batteries.  I'd probably look to see if I could license the scissors beams
> from cat2fold for a one-off build.  I particularly like that design, though
> I'm not trying to argue for it in place of telescoping beams.
>
>   Rob has argued that the increase in weight from the scissors design isn't
> worth it, especially when you consider that single-piece demountable beams
> would be lighter, stronger, and stiffer.  Whether or not he's right is a
> subjective matter that depends largely upon how lazy you are, or whether or
> not you'll have another person to help you trailer the boat..
>
>   Which does call into question how much you want to spend in order to
> optimize the boat for trailering.  If you don't have to collapse your beam
> on the water, single-piece beams will give you a lighter, stronger, stiffer,
> and cheaper boat that can have a wider overall beam than if you go with
> telescoping beams.  More space and righting moment.
>
>   The question is how often you need to trailer.  If it's only once or twice
> per year, and you don't need to collapse on the water, maybe the expense of
> going with a telescoping system isn't worth it.  You could rig up a custom
> trailer with some cradles/dollies that could allow you to get the boat onto
> a trailer in an hour or two with one or two people.  The scheme of using a
> stub mast to hoist the main mast up by its center of gravity is one that
> could probably be used by a single person as long as it's not windy.
>
>   Going with a less fancy design might be slightly less convenient, but
> perhaps the time penalty is not that bad, especially given the performance
> benefits.
>
>   So, back to the Contrarry, eh?  It's all a matter of perspective.  Instead
> of being a cramped liveaboard, it's actually a luxurious camp cruiser.
>
>        - Mike
>
>
>
> Gardner Pomper wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> So which harry are you going with?
>
> This boat started out as a copy of sidecar, adjusted a displacement to
> handle a fat guy. I figured I could build that. It kinda grew as it
> turned out bigger and heavier than I expected, up to the point where
> it is again in the "Contrarry" class of boat.
>
> I wanted it to remain trailerable, but I am going to have to start
> specifically looking at what that is costing me, because price is
> probably the primary motivator (well, that and ease of construction).
> I currently have these complications because of my trailerability
> requirement:
>
> 1) beam limited to 16' (maybe ok)
> 2) telescoping beams, which means I have a total of 6 beam sections
> 3) mast height limitations, since I need to be able to unstep it by
> hand (by myself) and fit in on the trailer
> 4) boom length limitations, due to reasons 1 & 3, as I posted in the
> first message of the thread
>
> I really need a way of seeing what this trailerability is costing me.
> I will very rarely trailer it. Collapsing it to fit into a slip would
> be nice, but would still require the complex beams. If I could figure
> out how to calculate the beam and rig costs, for trailerable and not,
> I could make a rational decision. It would be nice to at least be able
> to replace the beams later if I decide to do it. Start with fixed
> beams, with the option to convert later if I really need it.
>
> With the materials for the hulls only costing $10K, I don't want to
> spend another $10K (or more) on teh beams and rig.
>
> I have been thinking about rocker, and will have to ask Rob when he
> gets back. The way I am planning on building, I only have the U shaped
> hull for the middle 50% of the boat. The fore and aft 25%, I was just
> planning on using solid polystyrene foam for the keel section (about
> 6-8"), which would be hand shaped, so it would be easy to make that
> with some rocker.
>
> Hopefully I can get enough sorted out to start building this summer.
>
> - Gardner
>
>