From: oceanplodder2003

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 6:45 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Dimensions

Rob
Could you please give me the dimensions of the various Harry
components? I'm looking into whether I could build each separately in
the limited space at home ( saving a bundle over renting a shop) and
then assembling it at the local club yard.
Mostly looking for the longest, widest etc of each piece. Assuming
such a program is viable?
I remember racing against Rockie, didn't know you were that old. When
she hit the water I was racing a Peterson one tonner called "Warchild"
As each new Farr hit the water we would slip one place in the fleet.
The following year I was working with a local sailmaker and scored
rides on a number of boats, most well known being Smirnoff and Gunboat
Rangiriri (unfortunately in both cases after they had won something
significant, I never acheived Rock Star status).
Shortly after that I decided I preferred cruising and took off for 8
yrs and 40,000 miles in a modified Cav 32, but that's another story.
PS did you know Rick Shore? Pretty sure he sailed on Rockie.

I'm glad to hear about ARARA but now you've let the secret out expect
this name to appear on lots of multihulls - it's perfect!
PN


petermirow wrote:
> Quite amazing palindromes.
>
> I chose one for my canoe too; ARARA, which is the very colorfull big
> parrot. Also simply known as Aras in some other coutries. I wanted a
> purely brazilian name, and palindrome. Arara´s allways fly in couples
> which is apropriate for a fast sailing double hulled sailboat
> (preferably with the ama flying). Apart from beeing an amazingly
> beautyful bird, which causes necks to turn when it flies around like
> a flying rainbow.
>
> Best,
> Peter

Raul,

grande! Como vai o Arripiado (how is the Arripiado)? I have been
looking at your site now and then. And I have seen a CatriCat here in
Rio too. Nice boat. Parabéns! The boat seemd to have a happy owner.
I hope to cruise on your Alagoas coastline one day. Must be
fantastic. Specially with a low draft boat.
Carlos; Do you have any pictures?
I whish everybody a Happy 2006!
Best,
Peter



--- In harryproa@..., "Multicascos.com"
<multicascos@m...> wrote:
>
> Well .........
> I will say is nice for me to see portuguese msgs on the list.
> Multicascos boatyard is situated at 10 degrees south, near Maceió
city (AL)
> Um grande abraço Peter &  Carlos
> O que estas achando das plantas Carlos ?
> Happy new year for everybody on the list
>
>
> Raúl
> www.multicascos.com
>
>   Message: 6
>      Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:13:35 -0200
>      From: Carlos Neckel <caneckel@y...>
>   Subject: Re: Re: how many boats
>
>   Hi Peter,
>
>
>   Yes, I am cutting the "MDF" temporary frames to begin the
placement of
>   the strips.
>
>   Abraço,
>
>   Carlos Neckel
>
>
>
>
>   petermirow wrote:
>   > Oi Carlos,
>   >
>   > obrigado pela sua mensagem!
>   >
>   > I´ll be thrilled to see a Harry sailing around in these waters!
Have
>   > you stared the construction yet?
>   >
>   > Abraços,
>   >
>   > Peter
>   >
>   > PS: Eu moro no Rio e pretendo construir um tacking outrigger.
Algum
>   > dia...
>   >
>   >
>   > --- In harryproa@..., Carlos Neckel
<caneckel@y...>
>   > wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Hi  Peter,
>   > >
>   > > I am beginning Harry's building, in  Florianópolis city ,
south of
>   > Brazil
>   > >
>   > > Regards
>   > >
>   > > Carlos Neckel
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > Rob Denney wrote:
>   > > > G'day,
>   > > >
>   > > > Not far from Multicascos yard as far as I know.  This is on
the
>   > coast
>   > > > near the equator.
>   > > >
>   > > > regards,
>   > > >
>   > > > rob
>   > > >
>

Message: 6        
   Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:13:35 -0200
   From: Carlos Neckel <caneckel@...>
Subject: Re: Re: how many boats

Hi Peter,


Yes, I am cutting the "MDF" temporary frames to begin the placement of
the strips.

Abraço,

Carlos Neckel




petermirow wrote:
> Oi Carlos,
>
> obrigado pela sua mensagem!
>
> I´ll be thrilled to see a Harry sailing around in these waters! Have
> you stared the construction yet?
>
> Abraços,
>
> Peter
>
> PS: Eu moro no Rio e pretendo construir um tacking outrigger. Algum
> dia...
>
>
> --- In harryproa@..., Carlos Neckel <caneckel@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi  Peter,
> >
> > I am beginning Harry's building, in  Florianópolis city , south of
> Brazil
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Carlos Neckel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob Denney wrote:
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > Not far from Multicascos yard as far as I know.  This is on the
> coast
> > > near the equator.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > rob
> > >

Oi Carlos,

obrigado pela sua mensagem!

I´ll be thrilled to see a Harry sailing around in these waters! Have
you stared the construction yet?

Abraços,

Peter

PS: Eu moro no Rio e pretendo construir um tacking outrigger. Algum
dia...


--- In harryproa@..., Carlos Neckel <caneckel@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hi  Peter,
> 
> I am beginning Harry's building, in  Florianópolis city , south of
Brazil
>
> Regards
>
> Carlos Neckel
>
>
>
>
>
> Rob Denney wrote:
> > G'day,
> > 
> > Not far from Multicascos yard as far as I know.  This is on the
coast
> > near the equator.
> > 
> > regards,
> > 
> > rob
> >
> >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     *From:* petermirow <mailto:petermirow@h...>
> >     *To:* harryproa@...
> >     <mailto:harryproa@...>
> >     *Sent:* Friday, December 30, 2005 6:16 AM
> >     *Subject:* [harryproa] Re: how many boats
> >
> >     Hi Rob,
> >
> >     could you tell me where in Brazil the Harry in beeing built?
> >     Best,
> >     Peter
> >
> >
> >     --- In harryproa@...
> >     <mailto:harryproa@...>, David Howie <dana-
> >     tenacity@u <mailto:tenacity@u>...> wrote:
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > Where's the one in NZ?
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > ------ Original Message ------
> >     > Received: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:03:16 AM MST
> >     > From: "Rob Denney" <proa@i <mailto:proa@i>...>
> >     > To: <harryproa@...
> >     <mailto:harryproa@...>>
> >     > Subject: Re: [harryproa] how many boats
> >     >
> >     > G'day,
> >     >
> >     > There are 4 sailing (2 Elementarry's, one Visionarry and
the Maine
> >     boat) and
> >     > one Visionarry in the water waiting for it's rig.
> >     >
> >     > There are 16 building
> >     > 2 Harry's in France, a Visionarry in Finland, 2 x 66 'ers
and an
> >     Elementarry
> >     > in Norway, a Harry, a racing special and 2 Visionarrys  in
> >     Australia,
> >     > Elementarrys in Belgium and Brazil, Harry's in Brazil, New
Zealand
> >     and North
> >     > America (2).
> >     >
> >     > There are another half dozen or so who have bought plans
but not
> >     yet started
> >     > building.
> >     >
> >     > Regards,
> >     >
> >     > Rob
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >   ----- Original Message -----
> >     >   From: peterevans_33
> >     >   To: harryproa@...
> >     >   Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:16 PM
> >     >   Subject: [harryproa] how many boats
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >   hi all
> >     >
> >     >   I recieve posts from this group as email, seems there is
more
> >     building
> >     >   going on than I suspected. How many HP boats are built or
are
> >     building?
> >     >
> >     >   N Peter Evans
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > ------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> >     ----------
> >     >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> >     >
> >     >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >     >     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
> >     >     
> >     >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >     >     harryproa-unsubscribe@...
> >     >     
> >     >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> >     Service.
> >     >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     --------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> >     *Yahoo! Groups Links*
> >
> >         * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >           http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
> >           
> >         * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >           harryproa-unsubscribe@...
> >           <mailto:harryproa-unsubscribe@...?
subject=Unsubscribe>
> >           
> >         * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> >           Service <http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
>

Oi Carlos,

obrigado pela sua mensagem!

I´ll be thrilled to see a Harry sailing around in these waters! Have
you stared the construction yet?

Abraços,

Peter

PS: Eu moro no Rio e pretendo construir um tacking outrigger. Algum
dia...


--- In harryproa@..., Carlos Neckel <caneckel@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hi  Peter,
>
> I am beginning Harry's building, in  Florianópolis city , south of
Brazil
>
> Regards
>
> Carlos Neckel
>
>
>
>
>
> Rob Denney wrote:
> > G'day,
> >
> > Not far from Multicascos yard as far as I know.  This is on the
coast
> > near the equator.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > rob
> >
> >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     *From:* petermirow <mailto:petermirow@h...>
> >     *To:* harryproa@...
> >     <mailto:harryproa@...>
> >     *Sent:* Friday, December 30, 2005 6:16 AM
> >     *Subject:* [harryproa] Re: how many boats
> >
> >     Hi Rob,
> >
> >     could you tell me where in Brazil the Harry in beeing built?
> >     Best,
> >     Peter
> >
> >
> >     --- In harryproa@...
> >     <mailto:harryproa@...>, David Howie <dana-
> >     tenacity@u <mailto:tenacity@u>...> wrote:
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > Where's the one in NZ?
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > ------ Original Message ------
> >     > Received: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:03:16 AM MST
> >     > From: "Rob Denney" <proa@i <mailto:proa@i>...>
> >     > To: <harryproa@...
> >     <mailto:harryproa@...>>
> >     > Subject: Re: [harryproa] how many boats
> >     >
> >     > G'day,
> >     >
> >     > There are 4 sailing (2 Elementarry's, one Visionarry and
the Maine
> >     boat) and
> >     > one Visionarry in the water waiting for it's rig.
> >     >
> >     > There are 16 building
> >     > 2 Harry's in France, a Visionarry in Finland, 2 x 66 'ers
and an
> >     Elementarry
> >     > in Norway, a Harry, a racing special and 2 Visionarrys  in
> >     Australia,
> >     > Elementarrys in Belgium and Brazil, Harry's in Brazil, New
Zealand
> >     and North
> >     > America (2).
> >     >
> >     > There are another half dozen or so who have bought plans
but not
> >     yet started
> >     > building.
> >     >
> >     > Regards,
> >     >
> >     > Rob
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >   ----- Original Message -----
> >     >   From: peterevans_33
> >     >   To: harryproa@...
> >     >   Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:16 PM
> >     >   Subject: [harryproa] how many boats
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >   hi all
> >     >
> >     >   I recieve posts from this group as email, seems there is
more
> >     building
> >     >   going on than I suspected. How many HP boats are built or
are
> >     building?
> >     >
> >     >   N Peter Evans
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > ------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> >     ----------
> >     >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> >     >
> >     >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >     >     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
> >     >
> >     >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >     >     harryproa-unsubscribe@...
> >     >
> >     >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> >     Service.
> >     >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     --------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> >     *Yahoo! Groups Links*
> >
> >         * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >           http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
> >
> >         * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >           harryproa-unsubscribe@...
> >           <mailto:harryproa-unsubscribe@...?
subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> >         * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> >           Service <http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
>

G'day,

 

Not far from Multicascos yard as far as I know.  This is on the coast near the equator.

 

regards,

 

rob

----- Original Message -----

From: petermirow

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:16 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: how many boats

Hi Rob,

could you tell me where in Brazil the Harry in beeing built?
Best,
Peter


--- In harryproa@..., David Howie <dana-
tenacity@u...> wrote:
>
>
> Where's the one in NZ?
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> Received: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:03:16 AM MST
> From: "Rob Denney" <proa@i...>
> To: <harryproa@...>
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] how many boats
>
> G'day,
>
> There are 4 sailing (2 Elementarry's, one Visionarry and the Maine
boat) and
> one Visionarry in the water waiting for it's rig.
>
> There are 16 building
> 2 Harry's in France, a Visionarry in Finland, 2 x 66 'ers and an
Elementarry
> in Norway, a Harry, a racing special and 2 Visionarrys  in
Australia,
> Elementarrys in Belgium and Brazil, Harry's in Brazil, New Zealand
and North
> America (2). 
>
> There are another half dozen or so who have bought plans but not
yet started
> building.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: peterevans_33
>   To: harryproa@...
>   Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:16 PM
>   Subject: [harryproa] how many boats
>
>
>   hi all
>
>   I recieve posts from this group as email, seems there is more
building
>   going on than I suspected. How many HP boats are built or are
building?
>
>   N Peter Evans
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
>      
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>      
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: petermirow

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:16 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: how many boats

Hi Rob,

could you tell me where in Brazil the Harry in beeing built?
Best,
Peter


--- In harryproa@..., David Howie <dana-
tenacity@u...> wrote:
>
>
> Where's the one in NZ?
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> Received: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:03:16 AM MST
> From: "Rob Denney" <proa@i...>
> To: <harryproa@...>
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] how many boats
>
> G'day,
>
> There are 4 sailing (2 Elementarry's, one Visionarry and the Maine
boat) and
> one Visionarry in the water waiting for it's rig.
>
> There are 16 building
> 2 Harry's in France, a Visionarry in Finland, 2 x 66 'ers and an
Elementarry
> in Norway, a Harry, a racing special and 2 Visionarrys  in
Australia,
> Elementarrys in Belgium and Brazil, Harry's in Brazil, New Zealand
and North
> America (2). 
>
> There are another half dozen or so who have bought plans but not
yet started
> building.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: peterevans_33
>   To: harryproa@...
>   Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:16 PM
>   Subject: [harryproa] how many boats
>
>
>   hi all
>
>   I recieve posts from this group as email, seems there is more
building
>   going on than I suspected. How many HP boats are built or are
building?
>
>   N Peter Evans
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
>      
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>      
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: David Howie

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:45 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] how many boats

Where's the one in NZ?


------ Original Message ------
Received: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:03:16 AM MST
From: "Rob Denney" <proa@...>
To: <harryproa@...>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] how many boats

G'day,

There are 4 sailing (2 Elementarry's, one Visionarry and the Maine boat) and
one Visionarry in the water waiting for it's rig.

There are 16 building
2 Harry's in France, a Visionarry in Finland, 2 x 66 'ers and an Elementarry
in Norway, a Harry, a racing special and 2 Visionarrys  in Australia,
Elementarrys in Belgium and Brazil, Harry's in Brazil, New Zealand and North
America (2). 

There are another half dozen or so who have bought plans but not yet started
building.

Regards,

Rob


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: peterevans_33
  To: harryproa@...
  Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:16 PM
  Subject: [harryproa] how many boats


  hi all

  I recieve posts from this group as email, seems there is more building
  going on than I suspected. How many HP boats are built or are building?

  N Peter Evans






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Yahoo! Groups Links

    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
     
    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    harryproa-unsubscribe@...
     
    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Hi Rob,

could you tell me where in Brazil the Harry in beeing built?
Best,
Peter


  --- In harryproa@..., David Howie <dana-
tenacity@u...> wrote:
>
>
> Where's the one in NZ?
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> Received: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:03:16 AM MST
> From: "Rob Denney" <proa@i...>
> To: <harryproa@...>
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] how many boats
>
> G'day,
>
> There are 4 sailing (2 Elementarry's, one Visionarry and the Maine
boat) and
> one Visionarry in the water waiting for it's rig.
>
> There are 16 building
> 2 Harry's in France, a Visionarry in Finland, 2 x 66 'ers and an
Elementarry
> in Norway, a Harry, a racing special and 2 Visionarrys  in
Australia,
> Elementarrys in Belgium and Brazil, Harry's in Brazil, New Zealand
and North
> America (2).
>
> There are another half dozen or so who have bought plans but not
yet started
> building.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: peterevans_33
>   To: harryproa@...
>   Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:16 PM
>   Subject: [harryproa] how many boats
>
>
>   hi all
>
>   I recieve posts from this group as email, seems there is more
building
>   going on than I suspected. How many HP boats are built or are
building?
>
>   N Peter Evans
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>

Where's the one in NZ?


------ Original Message ------
Received: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:03:16 AM MST
From: "Rob Denney" <proa@...>
To: <harryproa@...>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] how many boats

G'day,

There are 4 sailing (2 Elementarry's, one Visionarry and the Maine boat) and
one Visionarry in the water waiting for it's rig.

There are 16 building
2 Harry's in France, a Visionarry in Finland, 2 x 66 'ers and an Elementarry
in Norway, a Harry, a racing special and 2 Visionarrys  in Australia,
Elementarrys in Belgium and Brazil, Harry's in Brazil, New Zealand and North
America (2).

There are another half dozen or so who have bought plans but not yet started
building.

Regards,

Rob


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: peterevans_33
   To: harryproa@...
   Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:16 PM
   Subject: [harryproa] how many boats


   hi all

   I recieve posts from this group as email, seems there is more building
   going on than I suspected. How many HP boats are built or are building?

   N Peter Evans






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Yahoo! Groups Links

     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/

     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
     harryproa-unsubscribe@...

     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Yes, ... that´s right.
Thanks.
Fractional rigs, with running stays are the answer.
Best,
Peter





> It does and is.   However, the down side is that it is difficult to
keep the forestay tight.  Not a problem while cruising, can be when
racing.  The runners help keep it tight and allow you to open up the
mainsail leech in fresh breezes.
>
> Regards,
>
> rob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>   From: petermirow
>   To: harryproa@...
>   Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:16 PM
>   Subject: [harryproa] Re: Rig stiffness issue?
>
>
>   I actually thought that a rig with a flexible top would be a good
>   thing on a proa. It helps to spill wind in a gust, thus making a
>   safety "bumper". No?
>   Best,
>   Peter
>
>
>
>   --- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@i...>
wrote:
>   >
>   > G'day,
>   >
>   > The forestay is tightened by mainsail leech tension.  This is
>   adequate for cruising, but does tend to result in a flat mainsail
and
>   in a big roached sail in light air, the leech tends to hook to
>   windward.   For racing,  I would fit a pair of running backstays
from
>   the hounds to the end of the boom.  A winch or highfield lever on
the
>   boom would be used for tensioning when required.
>   >
>   > The sideways staying is an option but the stays must go from
the
>   hounds to allow the top of the mast to bend off.  This can cause
>   problems if you get caught aback and the main boom bears against
>   them.  They also do not stop the mast from waving around as there
is
>   no backstay attached to the boat.
>   >
>   > We have fittings for stays on Rare Bird (Visionarry in Coff's
>   Harbour), but I would like to see what can be achieved with sail
>   cutting first.
>   >
>   > Blind Date will be about 75% the weight of rare Bird, which
will
>   give us another data point to look at and compare.
>   >
>   > Exciting indeed!
>   >
>   > regards,
>   >
>   > rob
>   >
>   >
>   >   Hi all,
>   >
>   >   after seeing the video I have the feeling of two potential
>   stiffness
>   >   issues on the visionarry and HP in general, one is the rig
>   stiffness,
>   >   longitudinal and lateral:
>   >
>   >   in these shots:
>   >   http://www.photo-j.com/proathumbsandimages/pages/Proa%
20180.htm
>   >   and
>   >   http://www.photo-j.com/proathumbsandimages/pages/Proa%
20160.htm
>   >   the mast bends to downwind, and the stay does not seem very
>   stiff.
>   >
>   >   There should be a way to stiffen the trapezoid formed by boom
>   >   end/mast foot/balestron end/top of stay. If the
balestron+boom is
>   >   rigid (like in this Visionarry), the boom could be pushed up
by a
>   boom
>   >   vang, I mean one that pushes up the boom with regard to the
mast,
>   >   stiffening the stay. But then this would slack the main.
>   >   Or preferenbly, if balestron and boom are independently
hinged,
>   there
>   >   could be two vangs, this time both classically pushing down.
>   >   But this must be engineered naturally.
>   >
>   >   Laterally, mobile running side stays, would probably help
also on
>   >   close haul.
>   >   Potentially, with these issues fixed, the boat can be really
>   _good_
>   >   when close hauled!
>   >
>   >   All this is really exciting because on an innovative type of
boat
>   >   there a lots of new problems to solve!
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > ----------------------------------------------------------------
----
>   ----------
>   >   Yahoo! Groups Links
>   >
>   >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>   >     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
>   >
>   >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   >     harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>   >
>   >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
>   Service.
>   >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>

From: petermirow

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:16 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: Rig stiffness issue?

I actually thought that a rig with a flexible top would be a good
thing on a proa. It helps to spill wind in a gust, thus making a
safety "bumper". No?
Best,
Peter



--- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@i...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> The forestay is tightened by mainsail leech tension.  This is
adequate for cruising, but does tend to result in a flat mainsail and
in a big roached sail in light air, the leech tends to hook to
windward.   For racing,  I would fit a pair of running backstays from
the hounds to the end of the boom.  A winch or highfield lever on the
boom would be used for tensioning when required.
>
> The sideways staying is an option but the stays must go from the
hounds to allow the top of the mast to bend off.  This can cause
problems if you get caught aback and the main boom bears against
them.  They also do not stop the mast from waving around as there is
no backstay attached to the boat.  
>
> We have fittings for stays on Rare Bird (Visionarry in Coff's
Harbour), but I would like to see what can be achieved with sail
cutting first.  
>
> Blind Date will be about 75% the weight of rare Bird, which will
give us another data point to look at and compare.
>
> Exciting indeed!
>
> regards,
>
> rob
>
>
>   Hi all,
>
>   after seeing the video I have the feeling of two potential
stiffness
>   issues on the visionarry and HP in general, one is the rig
stiffness,
>   longitudinal and lateral:
>
>   in these shots:
>   http://www.photo-j.com/proathumbsandimages/pages/Proa%20180.htm
>   and
>   http://www.photo-j.com/proathumbsandimages/pages/Proa%20160.htm
>   the mast bends to downwind, and the stay does not seem very
stiff.
>
>   There should be a way to stiffen the trapezoid formed by boom
>   end/mast foot/balestron end/top of stay. If the balestron+boom is
>   rigid (like in this Visionarry), the boom could be pushed up by a
boom
>   vang, I mean one that pushes up the boom with regard to the mast,
>   stiffening the stay. But then this would slack the main.
>   Or preferenbly, if balestron and boom are independently hinged,
there
>   could be two vangs, this time both classically pushing down.
>   But this must be engineered naturally.
>
>   Laterally, mobile running side stays, would probably help also on
>   close haul.
>   Potentially, with these issues fixed, the boat can be really
_good_
>   when close hauled!
>
>   All this is really exciting because on an innovative type of boat
>   there a lots of new problems to solve!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
>      
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>      
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>

I actually thought that a rig with a flexible top would be a good
thing on a proa. It helps to spill wind in a gust, thus making a
safety "bumper". No?
Best,
Peter



--- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@i...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> The forestay is tightened by mainsail leech tension.  This is
adequate for cruising, but does tend to result in a flat mainsail and
in a big roached sail in light air, the leech tends to hook to
windward.   For racing,  I would fit a pair of running backstays from
the hounds to the end of the boom.  A winch or highfield lever on the
boom would be used for tensioning when required.
>
> The sideways staying is an option but the stays must go from the
hounds to allow the top of the mast to bend off.  This can cause
problems if you get caught aback and the main boom bears against
them.  They also do not stop the mast from waving around as there is
no backstay attached to the boat.
>
> We have fittings for stays on Rare Bird (Visionarry in Coff's
Harbour), but I would like to see what can be achieved with sail
cutting first.
>
> Blind Date will be about 75% the weight of rare Bird, which will
give us another data point to look at and compare.
>
> Exciting indeed!
>
> regards,
>
> rob
>
>
>   Hi all,
>
>   after seeing the video I have the feeling of two potential
stiffness
>   issues on the visionarry and HP in general, one is the rig
stiffness,
>   longitudinal and lateral:
>
>   in these shots:
>   http://www.photo-j.com/proathumbsandimages/pages/Proa%20180.htm
>   and
>   http://www.photo-j.com/proathumbsandimages/pages/Proa%20160.htm
>   the mast bends to downwind, and the stay does not seem very
stiff.
>
>   There should be a way to stiffen the trapezoid formed by boom
>   end/mast foot/balestron end/top of stay. If the balestron+boom is
>   rigid (like in this Visionarry), the boom could be pushed up by a
boom
>   vang, I mean one that pushes up the boom with regard to the mast,
>   stiffening the stay. But then this would slack the main.
>   Or preferenbly, if balestron and boom are independently hinged,
there
>   could be two vangs, this time both classically pushing down.
>   But this must be engineered naturally.
>
>   Laterally, mobile running side stays, would probably help also on
>   close haul.
>   Potentially, with these issues fixed, the boat can be really
_good_
>   when close hauled!
>
>   All this is really exciting because on an innovative type of boat
>   there a lots of new problems to solve!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>

Quite amazing palindromes.

I chose one for my canoe too; ARARA, which is the very colorfull big
parrot. Also simply known as Aras in some other coutries. I wanted a
purely brazilian name, and palindrome. Arara´s allways fly in couples
which is apropriate for a fast sailing double hulled sailboat
(preferably with the ama flying). Apart from beeing an amazingly
beautyful bird, which causes necks to turn when it flies around like
a flying rainbow.

Best,
Peter


--- In harryproa@..., Jesse Deupree <jdeupree@m...>
wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 23, 2005, at 6:17 PM, oceanplodder2003 wrote:
>
> > OK it's Xmas eve so let's lighten up. The hardest part of
building a
> > boat has to be finding a name.
> > I really liked Blind Date, but it's not relevant for the rest of
us.
> > I thought a palindromic one would be appropriate for a proa (
reads
> > the same both ways).
> > I came up with two - TOY-YOT and Buttraftfarttub. Didn't like the
> > first because I don't like made up words ( yacht, dammit) and the
> > second was too derogatory towards my boat.
> > SO I tried the longest palindrome I could, Anal sex at noon taxes
> > Lana. My wife vetoed that one.
> > At present I'm thinking Penny on the big hull and Farthing on the
> > small one.
> > Any one got  a better idea?
>
> Great ideas- I like Penny and Farthing a lot. Palindromes are hard.
I
> came up with TOPSPOT, which is where you feel you are when aboard.
>
> AMA-AMA works (and could be written on the sail, where it would
read
> from both sides:-)
>
> Another choice would be words like Erewhon (Nowhere) or Oprah
> (Harpo)- a word that reads backwards- AORP would make the point.
>
> Jesse Deupree
> F-27 ION
> Portland Maine
> who was always told that a name should be one that you would be
> willing to use when in distress- A boat called BLIND GUY went up
on
> the rocks in my harbor, and had to radio for help.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: peterevans_33

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:16 PM

Subject: [harryproa] how many boats

hi all

I recieve posts from this group as email, seems there is more building
going on than I suspected. How many HP boats are built or are building?

N Peter Evans

hi all

I recieve posts from this group as email, seems there is more building
going on than I suspected. How many HP boats are built or are building?

N Peter Evans

He's either a drug smuggler or in the witness protection programme. Those are
the only reasons i can think of not to stop working and talk aboput a proa.

------ Original Message ------
Received: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 01:50:42 PM MST
From: Charlie Magee <charlie@...>
To: harryproa@...
Subject: [harryproa] Re: Harry in Maine?

Well, I went to this link: http://www.proasail.com, which led me to
this webpage http://www.by-the-sea.com/saltys/index.html.

I called the number at the bottom. There was the sound of a power tool
in the background and the guy that answered didn't seem to want to talk
or answer questions. I got 3 one word answers to my questions.

A link about a sailing proa in Maine now leads me to your webpage. Do
you have anything to with that proa? No.

It's a Harry proa built in Australia and delivered to Rockland Maine
for chartering and such. Have you seen a proa sailing in Rockland
waters? No.

Do you have any idea why that proa link would lead to your website? No.

Now, this place I called, SBI Marine, offers sailing lessons out of
Rockland Harbor. The man did not want to talk and anytime I've ever
called a place offering sailing lessons or sailing gear, they worked to
keep me on the line to sell me something. This guy had no interest in
pitching lessons or anything else. Nothing like: "We don't have a proa,
but we can teach you to sail on our fine 26 foot whatever."

I've never been to Rockland, but I can't imagine any kind of sailor not
noticing a Harry when it shows up and begins sailing around. Something
ain't right. That guy was either lying or hiding something or he didn't
know what a proa was and was just waiting for me to quit asking
questions so he could get back to work. It would sure help if I had the
owner's name . . . . . . .

Charlie


--------------------------------
Charlie Magee
Signal Design
465 Washington
Eugene, OR 97401
541-683-5363
http://www.signaldesign.net/different22.html

>

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  harryproa-unsubscribe@...
   
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

----- Original Message -----

From: Charlie Magee

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 4:50 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: Harry in Maine?

Well, I went to this link: http://www.proasail.com, which led me to
this webpage http://www.by-the-sea.com/saltys/index.html.

I called the number at the bottom. There was the sound of a power tool
in the background and the guy that answered didn't seem to want to talk
or answer questions. I got 3 one word answers to my questions.

A link about a sailing proa in Maine now leads me to your webpage. Do
you have anything to with that proa? No.

It's a Harry proa built in Australia and delivered to Rockland Maine
for chartering and such. Have you seen a proa sailing in Rockland
waters? No.

Do you have any idea why that proa link would lead to your website? No.

Now, this place I called, SBI Marine, offers sailing lessons out of
Rockland Harbor. The man did not want to talk and anytime I've ever
called a place offering sailing lessons or sailing gear, they worked to
keep me on the line to sell me something. This guy had no interest in
pitching lessons or anything else. Nothing like: "We don't have a proa,
but we can teach you to sail on our fine 26 foot whatever."

I've never been to Rockland, but I can't imagine any kind of sailor not
noticing a Harry when it shows up and begins sailing around. Something
ain't right. That guy was either lying or hiding something or he didn't
know what a proa was and was just waiting for me to quit asking
questions so he could get back to work. It would sure help if I had the
owner's name . . . . . . .

Charlie


--------------------------------
Charlie Magee
Signal Design
465 Washington
Eugene, OR 97401
541-683-5363
http://www.signaldesign.net/different22.html

>

----- Original Message -----

From: David Howie

He's either a drug smuggler or in the witness protection programme. Those are
the only reasons i can think of not to stop working and talk aboput a proa.

Rob
Could you please give me the dimensions of the various Harry
components? I'm looking into whether I could build each separately in
the limited space at home ( saving a bundle over renting a shop) and
then assembling it at the local club yard.
Mostly looking for the longest, widest etc of each piece. Assuming
such a program is viable?
I remember racing against Rockie, didn't know you were that old. When
she hit the water I was racing a Peterson one tonner called "Warchild"
As each new Farr hit the water we would slip one place in the fleet.
The following year I was working with a local sailmaker and scored
rides on a number of boats, most well known being Smirnoff and Gunboat
Rangiriri (unfortunately in both cases after they had won something
significant, I never acheived Rock Star status).
Shortly after that I decided I preferred cruising and took off for 8
yrs and 40,000 miles in a modified Cav 32, but that's another story.
PS did you know Rick Shore? Pretty sure he sailed on Rockie.

He's either a drug smuggler or in the witness protection programme. Those are
the only reasons i can think of not to stop working and talk aboput a proa.

------ Original Message ------
Received: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 01:50:42 PM MST
From: Charlie Magee <charlie@...>
To: harryproa@...
Subject: [harryproa] Re: Harry in Maine?

Well, I went to this link: http://www.proasail.com, which led me to
this webpage http://www.by-the-sea.com/saltys/index.html.

I called the number at the bottom. There was the sound of a power tool
in the background and the guy that answered didn't seem to want to talk
or answer questions. I got 3 one word answers to my questions.

A link about a sailing proa in Maine now leads me to your webpage. Do
you have anything to with that proa? No.

It's a Harry proa built in Australia and delivered to Rockland Maine
for chartering and such. Have you seen a proa sailing in Rockland
waters? No.

Do you have any idea why that proa link would lead to your website? No.

Now, this place I called, SBI Marine, offers sailing lessons out of
Rockland Harbor. The man did not want to talk and anytime I've ever
called a place offering sailing lessons or sailing gear, they worked to
keep me on the line to sell me something. This guy had no interest in
pitching lessons or anything else. Nothing like: "We don't have a proa,
but we can teach you to sail on our fine 26 foot whatever."

I've never been to Rockland, but I can't imagine any kind of sailor not
noticing a Harry when it shows up and begins sailing around. Something
ain't right. That guy was either lying or hiding something or he didn't
know what a proa was and was just waiting for me to quit asking
questions so he could get back to work. It would sure help if I had the
owner's name . . . . . . .

Charlie


--------------------------------
Charlie Magee
Signal Design
465 Washington
Eugene, OR 97401
541-683-5363
http://www.signaldesign.net/different22.html

>

Well, I went to this link: http://www.proasail.com, which led me to
this webpage http://www.by-the-sea.com/saltys/index.html.

I called the number at the bottom. There was the sound of a power tool
in the background and the guy that answered didn't seem to want to talk
or answer questions. I got 3 one word answers to my questions.

A link about a sailing proa in Maine now leads me to your webpage. Do
you have anything to with that proa? No.

It's a Harry proa built in Australia and delivered to Rockland Maine
for chartering and such. Have you seen a proa sailing in Rockland
waters? No.

Do you have any idea why that proa link would lead to your website? No.

Now, this place I called, SBI Marine, offers sailing lessons out of
Rockland Harbor. The man did not want to talk and anytime I've ever
called a place offering sailing lessons or sailing gear, they worked to
keep me on the line to sell me something. This guy had no interest in
pitching lessons or anything else. Nothing like: "We don't have a proa,
but we can teach you to sail on our fine 26 foot whatever."

I've never been to Rockland, but I can't imagine any kind of sailor not
noticing a Harry when it shows up and begins sailing around. Something
ain't right. That guy was either lying or hiding something or he didn't
know what a proa was and was just waiting for me to quit asking
questions so he could get back to work. It would sure help if I had the
owner's name . . . . . . .

Charlie


--------------------------------
Charlie Magee
Signal Design
465 Washington
Eugene, OR 97401
541-683-5363
http://www.signaldesign.net/different22.html

>

----- Original Message -----

From: Charlie Magee

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:34 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Harry in Maine?

I seem to remember that a Harry went to Maine in the U.S. and was doing
chartering, but I can't find it anywhere on the net. I'm thinking that
will be my best chance to try a Harry. Does anyone know what happened
to that boat?

Charlie


--------------------------------
Charlie Magee
Signal Design
465 Washington
Eugene, OR 97401
541-683-5363
http://www.signaldesign.net/different22.html

Peter & Paul,

What I am trying to convey is never assume balance just because symmetry
predisposes a
predjudice that equality exists.  Once you have split the rig, load is applied
at two different
points along the hull.  With that condition I would expect given the natural
occurance of
wind and sea that you almost never have equal loads for/aft.  The farther apart
the rig the
greater each rig imparts its energy to the nearest bow.   Just the mathematical
probability
of independent action.

So given that one hull may be flying and the other hull somewhat submerged, a
trip or
pitchpole is caused by an event,........ what is it ?  If all was balanced then
it should blow
over sideways.

Pleased it has stirred up at least a curiousity. So overall is this the best rig
?  Is the rig
spacing correct ?  Sometimes theory and application don't get it right due to
other
unaccounted variables.

Sorry I got the terminology wrong.

JT


--- In harryproa@..., "Peter Southwood" <peter.southwood@t...>
wrote:
>
> It is useful to use terminology in a way that is generally accepted by those
on the
receiving end if you want to transfet information without causing unneccessary
confusuin.
Paul is using the terminology as generally accepted by english speaking sailors,
naval
architects and aerodynamicists. When you make arbitrary use of a word in an
unexpected
context there is almost always confusion and the message is lost in the
noise.The
Schooner rig is fairly well defined and understood by many. So is the Biplane
rig. When you
use them interchangeably it throws up warning lights for those who use them in
their
technical context and suggests you actually dont know what you are talking
about.
> Secondly, moving a rig forward does not necessarily "Push the bow down" as a
result of
the centre of effort moving forward. The aerodynamic pitching moment of a rig
can
increase, decrease or stay the same when the rig is moved forward. The weight of
the rig
in the case of a schooner proa can be expected to maintain the same longitudinal
centre
of mass if the one mast is moved forward and the other moved back by the same
amount
with a net zero affect on fore and aft trim.
> I am not sure what you are trying to say in your last paragraph.
> Cheers,
> Peter
> ----- Original Message -----
>   From: jjtctaylor
>   To: harryproa@...
>   Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:26 AM
>   Subject: [harryproa] Re: Rigs
>
>
>
>
>   Paul,
>
>   Call it a Biplane or a Schooner, two sails independent but in close
proximity affecting
each
>   other ala elementary.  These sails may or may not combine to make the jib/
main
effect
>   alluded by many previous wing and sail engineers.  Therfore they may not be
balanced
at
>   all times and if the center of effort moves forward as is possible in a fore
aft sail
>   arrangement then lead sail can certainly push the bow down.  As you stated a
marconi
rig
>   such a balestron need only consider rig heigth.
>
>   That is the benefit of testing, but it is equally mathematically determined
by CE load
and
>   boyancy.  Obviously CE load is higher than the combined mass and Cd of a
submerged
>   hull, eh ?  Otherwise it wouldn't pitchpole.
>
>   Rob, should be able to test or calculate the limits, all rigs have
advantages and
>   shortcomings, gonna race......... need the best balance.
>
>   JT
>
>   --- In harryproa@..., nudd@o... wrote:
>   >
>   > Quoting jjtctaylor <jtaylor412@c...>:
>   >
>   > > I am niave as rigs go, but have heard a few things from years of web
>   > > surfing,...... the bi-
>   > > plane rig as shown on one option for elementaries can force the bow
>   > > down as the lead sail
>   > > loads up.  I would expect a tall rig can do the same especially if
>   > > the lee hull is so fair in
>   > > shape.
>   > -------------------------
>   > I think we have been through this in the past on [MhMl] and it was shown
that
>   > the lead sail does not force the bow down any more than the trailing
>   > sail. Tall
>   > rig does force bow down more than short rig.
>   > Also bi-plane rig is side by side as per Jazz, Team Phillips, Radical Bay.
>   > Schooner rig has 1 mast in front and 1 behind as per Shotover II, NZ
>   > Endeavour,
>   > Elementarry.
>   > Bi-plane rig is not suitable for a harryproa.
>   > PN
>   >
>   >
>   > ----------------------------------------------------------------
>   > This message was sent using MyMail
>   >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

On Dec 26, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Charlie Magee wrote:

> I seem to remember that a Harry went to Maine in the U.S. and was
> doing
> chartering, but I can't find it anywhere on the net. I'm thinking that
> will be my best chance to try a Harry. Does anyone know what happened
> to that boat?

I've never seen that boat  or heard of it- not that that means too
much. There is a proa in Camden Harbor called Cimba- she is a Russell
Brown design.

If you find her let the list know.

Jesse Deupree
F-27 ION
Portland Maine

From: jjtctaylor

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:26 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: Rigs

Paul,

Call it a Biplane or a Schooner, two sails independent but in close proximity affecting each
other ala elementary.  These sails may or may not combine to make the jib/ main effect
alluded by many previous wing and sail engineers.  Therfore they may not be balanced at
all times and if the center of effort moves forward as is possible in a fore aft sail
arrangement then lead sail can certainly push the bow down.  As you stated a marconi rig
such a balestron need only consider rig heigth.

That is the benefit of testing, but it is equally mathematically determined by CE load and
boyancy.  Obviously CE load is higher than the combined mass and Cd of a submerged
hull, eh ?  Otherwise it wouldn't pitchpole.

Rob, should be able to test or calculate the limits, all rigs have advantages and
shortcomings, gonna race......... need the best balance.

JT

--- In harryproa@..., nudd@o... wrote:
>
> Quoting jjtctaylor <jtaylor412@c...>:
>
> > I am niave as rigs go, but have heard a few things from years of web
> > surfing,...... the bi-
> > plane rig as shown on one option for elementaries can force the bow
> > down as the lead sail
> > loads up.  I would expect a tall rig can do the same especially if
> > the lee hull is so fair in
> > shape.
> -------------------------
> I think we have been through this in the past on [MhMl] and it was shown that
> the lead sail does not force the bow down any more than the trailing
> sail. Tall
> rig does force bow down more than short rig.
> Also bi-plane rig is side by side as per Jazz, Team Phillips, Radical Bay.
> Schooner rig has 1 mast in front and 1 behind as per Shotover II, NZ
> Endeavour,
> Elementarry.
> Bi-plane rig is not suitable for a harryproa.
> PN
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using MyMail
>

Paul,

Call it a Biplane or a Schooner, two sails independent but in close proximity
affecting each
other ala elementary.  These sails may or may not combine to make the jib/ main
effect
alluded by many previous wing and sail engineers.  Therfore they may not be
balanced at
all times and if the center of effort moves forward as is possible in a fore aft
sail
arrangement then lead sail can certainly push the bow down.  As you stated a
marconi rig
such a balestron need only consider rig heigth.

That is the benefit of testing, but it is equally mathematically determined by
CE load and
boyancy.  Obviously CE load is higher than the combined mass and Cd of a
submerged
hull, eh ?  Otherwise it wouldn't pitchpole.

Rob, should be able to test or calculate the limits, all rigs have advantages
and
shortcomings, gonna race......... need the best balance.

JT

--- In harryproa@..., nudd@o... wrote:
>
> Quoting jjtctaylor <jtaylor412@c...>:
>
> > I am niave as rigs go, but have heard a few things from years of web
> > surfing,...... the bi-
> > plane rig as shown on one option for elementaries can force the bow
> > down as the lead sail
> > loads up.  I would expect a tall rig can do the same especially if
> > the lee hull is so fair in
> > shape.
> -------------------------
> I think we have been through this in the past on [MhMl] and it was shown that
> the lead sail does not force the bow down any more than the trailing
> sail. Tall
> rig does force bow down more than short rig.
> Also bi-plane rig is side by side as per Jazz, Team Phillips, Radical Bay.
> Schooner rig has 1 mast in front and 1 behind as per Shotover II, NZ
> Endeavour,
> Elementarry.
> Bi-plane rig is not suitable for a harryproa.
> PN
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using MyMail
>

Quoting jjtctaylor <jtaylor412@...>:

> I am niave as rigs go, but have heard a few things from years of web
> surfing,...... the bi-
> plane rig as shown on one option for elementaries can force the bow
> down as the lead sail
> loads up.  I would expect a tall rig can do the same especially if
> the lee hull is so fair in
> shape.
-------------------------
I think we have been through this in the past on [MhMl] and it was shown that
the lead sail does not force the bow down any more than the trailing
sail. Tall
rig does force bow down more than short rig.
Also bi-plane rig is side by side as per Jazz, Team Phillips, Radical Bay.
Schooner rig has 1 mast in front and 1 behind as per Shotover II, NZ
Endeavour,
Elementarry.
Bi-plane rig is not suitable for a harryproa.
PN


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