Don't know the present sealing arrangements.
maybe it is a good idea to do as you say but possible problems i can
see are
It is probably important to keep sand out.
Any decrease in bury puts extra loading on the base of the mast
The tube still has to transfer the torque to the hull. The closer the
base is to the bottom the better.
It may be possible to take the tube to the bottom and simply have water
suitable bearings. The weight of water is negligible.
Robert
--- In harryproa@..., "oceanplodder2003" <dana-
tenacity@u...> wrote:
>
> OK, I'm ready to be shot down , but if the LW hull is very shallow,
> why not have the mast bearings in a watertight tube, raise the base
> till it is above the waterline and install a small drain overboard?
>

Congratulations on the rate of progress. Hope you take plent of pics
and notes on your trip
Here is my two cents worth on the beam issue. If you are cruising
with stores in the ww hull, then you have plenty of righting moment
in contrast with a cat or a tri which has the weight distributed more
evenly across the boat, but can load the boat more aft to avoid
pitchpoling. Extra width adds to the weight and windage and torque
and increases the likelihood of waves hitting the crossbeams.It also
makes it more of a hassle to manoevre. I suspect the narrower beam
would make it easier to come in and out of the surf. For a cruiser
3.8m seems about the right width. Elementarry noncruising on a broad
reach with much less weight in the ww hull appears to be at the
juncture of pitchpoling and sideways capsize when pushing it to its
maximum-
regards,
Robert

- In harryproa@..., Mike Crawford <jmichael@g...>
wrote:
>
> <<I thought you didn't like a nice wide safe multihull for a
minute.>>
>
>   Steve Fossett's Playstation maxi cat was originally built at 105'
LOA,
> with a beam of 60'.  I believe the choice was made to maximize
righting
> moment with a wide beam, while keeping weight down with the
shortest
> hulls they thought they could get away with.  However, it had a
tendency
> to pitchpole at this beam-to-length ratio, and was lengthened to
125' to
> make it more stable.  It added a lot of weight, but they are much
> happier with the boat now.  I've also heard rumors about upwind
> performance, but can't substantiate them.
>
>   In any case, while additional beam does provide more beam-wise
> righting moment, it doesn't increase length-wise righting moment. 
It's
> possible to generate so much righting moment with a wider beam that
the
> boat becomes too short to sail safely with the extra power. 
Playstation
> went from a length-to-beam ratio of 1.75 to 2.08 to deal with this
> effect.  A 3.8m beam on an Elementary gives a ratio of 1.97, while
> extending it to 4.5m brings the ratio down to 1.66, below that of
the
> original Playstation.
>
>   If you're going to be cruising with appropriately-reefed sails,
then
> this is a non issue, and the wider beam will be safer.  It also
won't
> matter if you're racing and don't mind the risk.  It's something to
> consider, though.  After a point, wider only means safer if you're
not
> pushing the boat.
>
>   Personally, I'd rather capsize than pitchpole, especially at
speed,
> but it all really depends upon what you want to do with the boat. 
As
> Rob says, it would be interesting to see what the additional beam
does. 
> Everything else is conjecture at this point.
>
>        - Mike
>
>
>
> Doug Haines wrote:
>
> > Rob,
> > 
> > Thats good - I thought you didn't like a nice wide safe multihull
for
> > a minute.
> >  The sail designer (Rolly Tasker) advises to use a bolt rope
luff ,
> > for reefing with some long cruise I've planned. So suppose strip
> > planking should now be an aero foil shaoe rather than the round
mast
> > that takes the luff sleeve. Not quite as big as your wing mast,
but
> > strip planked in the 6mm kiri and just straight all the way up.
What
> > would a good width/length be?
> > 
> > Doug
> >
> > */Rob Denney <proa@i...>/* wrote:
> >
> >     G'day,
> >     
> >     I meant than 4m.  For traillering reasons.  Be interesting to
see
> >     how it sails at 4.5
> >     
> >     regards,
> >     
> >     rob
> >
> >         ----- Original Message -----
> >         *From:* Doug Haines <mailto:doha720@y...>
> >         *To:* harryproa@...
> >         <mailto:harryproa@...>
> >         *Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2006 9:51 AM
> >         *Subject:* Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE
MATERIAL?
> >
> >         Rob,
> >         
> >         What do you mean you wouldn't go wider 7.5 x 3.8 seems a
bit
> >         narrow?
> >         
> >         It'll stay in the water.
> >         
> >         6oz US dacron. Rolly Taskers Phuket
> >         
> >         Doug
> >
> >         */Rob Denney <proa@i... <mailto:proa@i...>>/*
> >         wrote:
> >
> >             beam is what fits on the trailer in the telescoped
> >             position.  Can go wider, but I wouldn't.  Good deal
on the
> >             sails.  What are they made of?  I will try to get to
> >             Maylands next week.
> >             
> >             regards,
> >             
> >             rob
> >
> >                 ----- Original Message -----
> >                 *From:* Doug Haines <mailto:doha720@y...>
> >                 *To:* harryproa@...
> >                 <mailto:harryproa@...>
> >                 *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:51 PM
> >                 *Subject:* Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A
CORE
> >                 MATERIAL?
> >
> >                 Thanks, thats a good idea about the 3mm ply, I'll
try
> >                 that as i have bought the polystyrene anyway.
> >                 
> >                 Laying out the beams now it strikes me as being
quite
> >                 narrow. The whole boat that is. I've got about
3.8m
> >                 overall beam. Can I widen this to 4.5m? Is that
length
> >                 3.8m to do with still fitting on the trailer?
> >                 
> >                 I've decided to kind of fix the beams in the
building,
> >                 and leave the option to maybe some other owner who
> >                 could convert this back to a demountable pinned
type
> >                 of beam. This is just easier for be right now.
> >                 Also I'm heading off from Mandurah next Tuesday to
> >                 complete in about 4 weeks at Maylands boat yard,
so
> >                 call in to Maylands later in the week to see me.
> >                 Ordered two sails, luff sleeves, 6m luf for
bridges
> >                 from Phuket US $960.
> >                 
> >                 I hope to make your rudder set up in a couple of
weeks.
> >
> >                 */Rob Denney <proa@i...>/* wrote:
> >
> >                     G'day,
> >                     
> >                     Sorry, I missed this.  Doug, please send any
> >                     questions to me as well as to the group as I
am
> >                     having continual problems with Yahoo.  Ta.
> >                     
> >                     Polystyrene will not work on areas where you
are
> >                     walking on it, as it dents, then leaves a void
> >                     under the glass.  Eventually it all falls
off.
> >                     You can put 1-3mm ply each side but it is
better
> >                     to use a decent core.  Foam, polypropylene
> >                     (Boatcote or Polycore Aus) or paper honeycomb
> >                     (ATL) are recommended.  
> >                     
> >                     regards,
> >                     
> >                     Rob
> >
> >                         ----- Original Message -----
> >                         *From:* Robert <mailto:cateran1949@y...>
> >                         *To:* harryproa@...
> >                         <mailto:harryproa@...>
> >                         *Sent:* Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:31 AM
> >                         *Subject:* [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS
A
> >                         CORE MATERIAL?
> >
> >                         For long term use I'd stick with a quality
> >                         foam or honeycomb. The
> >                         resin , glass and exposure to nasty
materials
> >                         is still the same price
> >                         for a core that can out gass and
generally not
> >                         perform as well. For a
> >                         discourse on this there is something on
the
> >                         proafile yahoo group I was
> >                         wondering for the marginal extra cost of
going
> >                         to 20mm for the core in
> >                         polycore polypropylene honeycomb,
> >                         Robert --- In
harryproa@...,
> >                         "doha720" <doha720@y...>
> >                         wrote:
> >                         >
> >                         > Could it be used to make the flat
platform
> >                         on the camper?
> >                         >
> >                         > 15mm expensive foam sandwiched with
400db is
> >                         stated on the plan.
> >                         >
> >                         > Was buying the polystyrene for the end
caps
> >                         today and thought...
> >                         >
> >                         > Doug
> >                         >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                         ------------------------------------------
------------------------------
> >                         Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> >                         Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >                         Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database:
268.5.1/328
> >                         - Release Date: 5/1/2006
> >
> >
> >                 Send instant messages to your online friends
> >                 http://uk.messenger.yaoo.com
> >                 --------------------------------------------------
----------------------
> >                 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> >                 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >                 Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 -
> >                 Release Date: 5/1/2006
> >
> >
> >         Send instant messages to your online friends
> >         http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >         ----------------------------------------------------------
--------------
> >         Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> >         Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >         Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release
Date:
> >         5/1/2006
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> > Yahoo! Messenger
> >
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/default/messenger/*http://uk.
messenger.yahoo.com>
> > - with free PC-PC calling and photo sharing.
>

OK, I'm ready to be shot down , but if the LW hull is very shallow,
why not have the mast bearings in a watertight tube, raise the base
till it is above the waterline and install a small drain overboard?

Congratulations on the rate of progress. Hope you take plent of pics
and notes on your trip
Here is my two cents worth on the beam issue. If you are cruising
with stores in the ww hull, then you have plenty of righting moment
in contrast with a cat or a tri which has the weight distributed more
evenly across the boat, but can load the boat more aft to avoid
pitchpoling. Extra width adds to the weight and windage and torque
and increases the likelihood of waves hitting the crossbeams.It also
makes it more of a hassle to manoevre. I suspect the narrower beam
would make it easier to come in and out of the surf. For a cruiser
3.8m seems about the right width. Elementarry noncruising on a broad
reach with much less weight in the ww hull appears to be at the
juncture of pitchpoling and sideways capsize when pushing it to its
maximum-
regards,
Robert

- In harryproa@..., Mike Crawford <jmichael@g...>
wrote:
>
> <<I thought you didn't like a nice wide safe multihull for a
minute.>>
>
>   Steve Fossett's Playstation maxi cat was originally built at 105'
LOA,
> with a beam of 60'.  I believe the choice was made to maximize
righting
> moment with a wide beam, while keeping weight down with the
shortest
> hulls they thought they could get away with.  However, it had a
tendency
> to pitchpole at this beam-to-length ratio, and was lengthened to
125' to
> make it more stable.  It added a lot of weight, but they are much
> happier with the boat now.  I've also heard rumors about upwind
> performance, but can't substantiate them.
>
>   In any case, while additional beam does provide more beam-wise
> righting moment, it doesn't increase length-wise righting moment.
It's
> possible to generate so much righting moment with a wider beam that
the
> boat becomes too short to sail safely with the extra power.
Playstation
> went from a length-to-beam ratio of 1.75 to 2.08 to deal with this
> effect.  A 3.8m beam on an Elementary gives a ratio of 1.97, while
> extending it to 4.5m brings the ratio down to 1.66, below that of
the
> original Playstation.
>
>   If you're going to be cruising with appropriately-reefed sails,
then
> this is a non issue, and the wider beam will be safer.  It also
won't
> matter if you're racing and don't mind the risk.  It's something to
> consider, though.  After a point, wider only means safer if you're
not
> pushing the boat.
>
>   Personally, I'd rather capsize than pitchpole, especially at
speed,
> but it all really depends upon what you want to do with the boat.
As
> Rob says, it would be interesting to see what the additional beam
does.
> Everything else is conjecture at this point.
>
>        - Mike
>
>
>
> Doug Haines wrote:
>
> > Rob,
> >
> > Thats good - I thought you didn't like a nice wide safe multihull
for
> > a minute.
> >  The sail designer (Rolly Tasker) advises to use a bolt rope
luff ,
> > for reefing with some long cruise I've planned. So suppose strip
> > planking should now be an aero foil shaoe rather than the round
mast
> > that takes the luff sleeve. Not quite as big as your wing mast,
but
> > strip planked in the 6mm kiri and just straight all the way up.
What
> > would a good width/length be?
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > */Rob Denney <proa@i...>/* wrote:
> >
> >     G'day,
> >
> >     I meant than 4m.  For traillering reasons.  Be interesting to
see
> >     how it sails at 4.5
> >
> >     regards,
> >
> >     rob
> >
> >         ----- Original Message -----
> >         *From:* Doug Haines <mailto:doha720@y...>
> >         *To:* harryproa@...
> >         <mailto:harryproa@...>
> >         *Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2006 9:51 AM
> >         *Subject:* Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE
MATERIAL?
> >
> >         Rob,
> >
> >         What do you mean you wouldn't go wider 7.5 x 3.8 seems a
bit
> >         narrow?
> >
> >         It'll stay in the water.
> >
> >         6oz US dacron. Rolly Taskers Phuket
> >
> >         Doug
> >
> >         */Rob Denney <proa@i... <mailto:proa@i...>>/*
> >         wrote:
> >
> >             beam is what fits on the trailer in the telescoped
> >             position.  Can go wider, but I wouldn't.  Good deal
on the
> >             sails.  What are they made of?  I will try to get to
> >             Maylands next week.
> >
> >             regards,
> >
> >             rob
> >
> >                 ----- Original Message -----
> >                 *From:* Doug Haines <mailto:doha720@y...>
> >                 *To:* harryproa@...
> >                 <mailto:harryproa@...>
> >                 *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:51 PM
> >                 *Subject:* Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A
CORE
> >                 MATERIAL?
> >
> >                 Thanks, thats a good idea about the 3mm ply, I'll
try
> >                 that as i have bought the polystyrene anyway.
> >
> >                 Laying out the beams now it strikes me as being
quite
> >                 narrow. The whole boat that is. I've got about
3.8m
> >                 overall beam. Can I widen this to 4.5m? Is that
length
> >                 3.8m to do with still fitting on the trailer?
> >
> >                 I've decided to kind of fix the beams in the
building,
> >                 and leave the option to maybe some other owner who
> >                 could convert this back to a demountable pinned
type
> >                 of beam. This is just easier for be right now.
> >                 Also I'm heading off from Mandurah next Tuesday to
> >                 complete in about 4 weeks at Maylands boat yard,
so
> >                 call in to Maylands later in the week to see me.
> >                 Ordered two sails, luff sleeves, 6m luf for
bridges
> >                 from Phuket US $960.
> >
> >                 I hope to make your rudder set up in a couple of
weeks.
> >
> >                 */Rob Denney <proa@i...>/* wrote:
> >
> >                     G'day,
> >
> >                     Sorry, I missed this.  Doug, please send any
> >                     questions to me as well as to the group as I
am
> >                     having continual problems with Yahoo.  Ta.
> >
> >                     Polystyrene will not work on areas where you
are
> >                     walking on it, as it dents, then leaves a void
> >                     under the glass.  Eventually it all falls
off.
> >                     You can put 1-3mm ply each side but it is
better
> >                     to use a decent core.  Foam, polypropylene
> >                     (Boatcote or Polycore Aus) or paper honeycomb
> >                     (ATL) are recommended.
> >
> >                     regards,
> >
> >                     Rob
> >
> >                         ----- Original Message -----
> >                         *From:* Robert <mailto:cateran1949@y...>
> >                         *To:* harryproa@...
> >                         <mailto:harryproa@...>
> >                         *Sent:* Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:31 AM
> >                         *Subject:* [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS
A
> >                         CORE MATERIAL?
> >
> >                         For long term use I'd stick with a quality
> >                         foam or honeycomb. The
> >                         resin , glass and exposure to nasty
materials
> >                         is still the same price
> >                         for a core that can out gass and
generally not
> >                         perform as well. For a
> >                         discourse on this there is something on
the
> >                         proafile yahoo group I was
> >                         wondering for the marginal extra cost of
going
> >                         to 20mm for the core in
> >                         polycore polypropylene honeycomb,
> >                         Robert --- In
harryproa@...,
> >                         "doha720" <doha720@y...>
> >                         wrote:
> >                         >
> >                         > Could it be used to make the flat
platform
> >                         on the camper?
> >                         >
> >                         > 15mm expensive foam sandwiched with
400db is
> >                         stated on the plan.
> >                         >
> >                         > Was buying the polystyrene for the end
caps
> >                         today and thought...
> >                         >
> >                         > Doug
> >                         >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                         ------------------------------------------
------------------------------
> >                         Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> >                         Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >                         Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database:
268.5.1/328
> >                         - Release Date: 5/1/2006
> >
> >
> >                 Send instant messages to your online friends
> >                 http://uk.messenger.yaoo.com
> >                 --------------------------------------------------
----------------------
> >                 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> >                 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >                 Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 -
> >                 Release Date: 5/1/2006
> >
> >
> >         Send instant messages to your online friends
> >         http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >         ----------------------------------------------------------
--------------
> >         Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> >         Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >         Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release
Date:
> >         5/1/2006
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> > Yahoo! Messenger
> >
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/default/messenger/*http://uk.
messenger.yahoo.com>
> > - with free PC-PC calling and photo sharing.
>

Rob,

 

Thats good - I thought you didn't like a nice wide safe multihull for a minute.

 The sail designer (Rolly Tasker) advises to use a bolt rope luff , for reefing with some long cruise I've planned. So suppose strip planking should now be an aero foil shaoe rather than the round mast that takes the luff sleeve. Not quite as big as your wing mast, but strip planked in the 6mm kiri and just straight all the way up. What would a good width/length be?

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

I meant than 4m.  For traillering reasons.  Be interesting to see how it sails at 4.5

 

regards,

 

rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 9:51 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

Rob,

 

What do you mean you wouldn't go wider 7.5 x 3.8 seems a bit narrow?

 

It'll stay in the water.

 

6oz US dacron. Rolly Taskers Phuket

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

beam is what fits on the trailer in the telescoped position.  Can go wider, but I wouldn't.  Good deal on the sails.  What are they made of?  I will try to get to Maylands next week.

 

regards,

 

rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:51 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

Thanks, thats a good idea about the 3mm ply, I'll try that as i have bought the polystyrene anyway.

 

Laying out the beams now it strikes me as being quite narrow. The whole boat that is. I've got about 3.8m overall beam. Can I widen this to 4.5m? Is that length 3.8m to do with still fitting on the trailer?

 

I've decided to kind of fix the beams in the building, and leave the option to maybe some other owner who could convert this back to a demountable pinned type of beam. This is just easier for be right now.

Also I'm heading off from Mandurah next Tuesday to complete in about 4 weeks at Maylands boat yard, so call in to Maylands later in the week to see me.

Ordered two sails, luff sleeves, 6m luf for bridges from Phuket US $960.

 

I hope to make your rudder set up in a couple of weeks.

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

Sorry, I missed this.  Doug, please send any questions to me as well as to the group as I am having continual problems with Yahoo.  Ta.

 

Polystyrene will not work on areas where you are walking on it, as it dents, then leaves a void under the glass.  Eventually it all falls off.  You can put 1-3mm ply each side but it is better to use a decent core.  Foam, polypropylene (Boatcote or Polycore Aus) or paper honeycomb (ATL) are recommended.   

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:31 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

For long term use I'd stick with a quality foam or honeycomb. The
resin , glass and exposure to nasty materials is still the same price
for a core that can out gass and generally not perform as well. For a
discourse on this there is something on the proafile yahoo group I was
wondering for the marginal extra cost of going to 20mm for the core in
polycore polypropylene honeycomb,
Robert --- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...>
wrote:
>
> Could it be used to make the flat platform on the camper?
>
> 15mm expensive foam sandwiched with 400db is stated on the plan.
>
> Was buying the polystyrene for the end caps today and thought...
>
> Doug
>

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yaoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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---

Yahoo! Messenger - with free PC-PC calling and photo sharing.

G'day,

 

I meant than 4m.  For traillering reasons.  Be interesting to see how it sails at 4.5

 

regards,

 

rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 9:51 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

Rob,

 

What do you mean you wouldn't go wider 7.5 x 3.8 seems a bit narrow?

 

It'll stay in the water.

 

6oz US dacron. Rolly Taskers Phuket

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

beam is what fits on the trailer in the telescoped position.  Can go wider, but I wouldn't.  Good deal on the sails.  What are they made of?  I will try to get to Maylands next week.

 

regards,

 

rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:51 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

Thanks, thats a good idea about the 3mm ply, I'll try that as i have bought the polystyrene anyway.

 

Laying out the beams now it strikes me as being quite narrow. The whole boat that is. I've got about 3.8m overall beam. Can I widen this to 4.5m? Is that length 3.8m to do with still fitting on the trailer?

 

I've decided to kind of fix the beams in the building, and leave the option to maybe some other owner who could convert this back to a demountable pinned type of beam. This is just easier for be right now.

Also I'm heading off from Mandurah next Tuesday to complete in about 4 weeks at Maylands boat yard, so call in to Maylands later in the week to see me.

Ordered two sails, luff sleeves, 6m luf for bridges from Phuket US $960.

 

I hope to make your rudder set up in a couple of weeks.

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

Sorry, I missed this.  Doug, please send any questions to me as well as to the group as I am having continual problems with Yahoo.  Ta.

 

Polystyrene will not work on areas where you are walking on it, as it dents, then leaves a void under the glass.  Eventually it all falls off.  You can put 1-3mm ply each side but it is better to use a decent core.  Foam, polypropylene (Boatcote or Polycore Aus) or paper honeycomb (ATL) are recommended.   

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:31 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

For long term use I'd stick with a quality foam or honeycomb. The
resin , glass and exposure to nasty materials is still the same price
for a core that can out gass and generally not perform as well. For a
discourse on this there is something on the proafile yahoo group I was
wondering for the marginal extra cost of going to 20mm for the core in
polycore polypropylene honeycomb,
Robert --- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...>
wrote:
>
> Could it be used to make the flat platform on the camper?
>
> 15mm expensive foam sandwiched with 400db is stated on the plan.
>
> Was buying the polystyrene for the end caps today and thought...
>
> Doug
>

---

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----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 9:51 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

Rob,

 

What do you mean you wouldn't go wider 7.5 x 3.8 seems a bit narrow?

 

It'll stay in the water.

 

6oz US dacron. Rolly Taskers Phuket

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

beam is what fits on the trailer in the telescoped position.  Can go wider, but I wouldn't.  Good deal on the sails.  What are they made of?  I will try to get to Maylands next week.

 

regards,

 

rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:51 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

Thanks, thats a good idea about the 3mm ply, I'll try that as i have bought the polystyrene anyway.

 

Laying out the beams now it strikes me as being quite narrow. The whole boat that is. I've got about 3.8m overall beam. Can I widen this to 4.5m? Is that length 3.8m to do with still fitting on the trailer?

 

I've decided to kind of fix the beams in the building, and leave the option to maybe some other owner who could convert this back to a demountable pinned type of beam. This is just easier for be right now.

Also I'm heading off from Mandurah next Tuesday to complete in about 4 weeks at Maylands boat yard, so call in to Maylands later in the week to see me.

Ordered two sails, luff sleeves, 6m luf for bridges from Phuket US $960.

 

I hope to make your rudder set up in a couple of weeks.

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

Sorry, I missed this.  Doug, please send any questions to me as well as to the group as I am having continual problems with Yahoo.  Ta.

 

Polystyrene will not work on areas where you are walking on it, as it dents, then leaves a void under the glass.  Eventually it all falls off.  You can put 1-3mm ply each side but it is better to use a decent core.  Foam, polypropylene (Boatcote or Polycore Aus) or paper honeycomb (ATL) are recommended.   

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:31 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

For long term use I'd stick with a quality foam or honeycomb. The
resin , glass and exposure to nasty materials is still the same price
for a core that can out gass and generally not perform as well. For a
discourse on this there is something on the proafile yahoo group I was
wondering for the marginal extra cost of going to 20mm for the core in
polycore polypropylene honeycomb,
Robert --- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...>
wrote:
>
> Could it be used to make the flat platform on the camper?
>
> 15mm expensive foam sandwiched with 400db is stated on the plan.
>
> Was buying the polystyrene for the end caps today and thought...
>
> Doug
>

---

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beam is what fits on the trailer in the telescoped position.  Can go wider, but I wouldn't.  Good deal on the sails.  What are they made of?  I will try to get to Maylands next week.

 

regards,

 

rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:51 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

Thanks, thats a good idea about the 3mm ply, I'll try that as i have bought the polystyrene anyway.

 

Laying out the beams now it strikes me as being quite narrow. The whole boat that is. I've got about 3.8m overall beam. Can I widen this to 4.5m? Is that length 3.8m to do with still fitting on the trailer?

 

I've decided to kind of fix the beams in the building, and leave the option to maybe some other owner who could convert this back to a demountable pinned type of beam. This is just easier for be right now.

Also I'm heading off from Mandurah next Tuesday to complete in about 4 weeks at Maylands boat yard, so call in to Maylands later in the week to see me.

Ordered two sails, luff sleeves, 6m luf for bridges from Phuket US $960.

 

I hope to make your rudder set up in a couple of weeks.

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

Sorry, I missed this.  Doug, please send any questions to me as well as to the group as I am having continual problems with Yahoo.  Ta.

 

Polystyrene will not work on areas where you are walking on it, as it dents, then leaves a void under the glass.  Eventually it all falls off.  You can put 1-3mm ply each side but it is better to use a decent core.  Foam, polypropylene (Boatcote or Polycore Aus) or paper honeycomb (ATL) are recommended.   

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:31 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

For long term use I'd stick with a quality foam or honeycomb. The
resin , glass and exposure to nasty materials is still the same price
for a core that can out gass and generally not perform as well. For a
discourse on this there is something on the proafile yahoo group I was
wondering for the marginal extra cost of going to 20mm for the core in
polycore polypropylene honeycomb,
Robert --- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...>
wrote:
>
> Could it be used to make the flat platform on the camper?
>
> 15mm expensive foam sandwiched with 400db is stated on the plan.
>
> Was buying the polystyrene for the end caps today and thought...
>
> Doug
>

---

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----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:51 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

Thanks, thats a good idea about the 3mm ply, I'll try that as i have bought the polystyrene anyway.

 

Laying out the beams now it strikes me as being quite narrow. The whole boat that is. I've got about 3.8m overall beam. Can I widen this to 4.5m? Is that length 3.8m to do with still fitting on the trailer?

 

I've decided to kind of fix the beams in the building, and leave the option to maybe some other owner who could convert this back to a demountable pinned type of beam. This is just easier for be right now.

Also I'm heading off from Mandurah next Tuesday to complete in about 4 weeks at Maylands boat yard, so call in to Maylands later in the week to see me.

Ordered two sails, luff sleeves, 6m luf for bridges from Phuket US $960.

 

I hope to make your rudder set up in a couple of weeks.

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

Sorry, I missed this.  Doug, please send any questions to me as well as to the group as I am having continual problems with Yahoo.  Ta.

 

Polystyrene will not work on areas where you are walking on it, as it dents, then leaves a void under the glass.  Eventually it all falls off.  You can put 1-3mm ply each side but it is better to use a decent core.  Foam, polypropylene (Boatcote or Polycore Aus) or paper honeycomb (ATL) are recommended.   

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:31 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

For long term use I'd stick with a quality foam or honeycomb. The
resin , glass and exposure to nasty materials is still the same price
for a core that can out gass and generally not perform as well. For a
discourse on this there is something on the proafile yahoo group I was
wondering for the marginal extra cost of going to 20mm for the core in
polycore polypropylene honeycomb,
Robert --- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...>
wrote:
>
> Could it be used to make the flat platform on the camper?
>
> 15mm expensive foam sandwiched with 400db is stated on the plan.
>
> Was buying the polystyrene for the end caps today and thought...
>
> Doug
>

---

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G'day,

 

Sorry, I missed this.  Doug, please send any questions to me as well as to the group as I am having continual problems with Yahoo.  Ta.

 

Polystyrene will not work on areas where you are walking on it, as it dents, then leaves a void under the glass.  Eventually it all falls off.  You can put 1-3mm ply each side but it is better to use a decent core.  Foam, polypropylene (Boatcote or Polycore Aus) or paper honeycomb (ATL) are recommended.   

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:31 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

For long term use I'd stick with a quality foam or honeycomb. The
resin , glass and exposure to nasty materials is still the same price
for a core that can out gass and generally not perform as well. For a
discourse on this there is something on the proafile yahoo group I was
wondering for the marginal extra cost of going to 20mm for the core in
polycore polypropylene honeycomb,
Robert --- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...>
wrote:
>
> Could it be used to make the flat platform on the camper?
>
> 15mm expensive foam sandwiched with 400db is stated on the plan.
>
> Was buying the polystyrene for the end caps today and thought...
>
> Doug
>

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

All true, still want to get out there and try it. harry, like any fast
multi is going to be a problem for any self steering. An electronic
auto pilot might handle the changes in apparent wind but I distrust
them and don't want to have to generate that much electricity. I read
somewhere about a system that used a towed impeller to produce
hydraulic pressure and hydraulic logic, excess power was fed into the
batteries, sounded promising, but it seems to have disappeared.

--- In harryproa@..., Peter Raymond <pramsec@a...> wrote:
>
> G'day Oceanplodder,
>
> Slocum sailed from Thursday Island to Cocos Islands in seventeen
days and
> according to him was only at the helm for three hours in that period. 
> But remember
> that "Spray" was a long keel boat , heavy, with good directional
> stability.  It is also
> probable that Slocum had steady winds from one direction though he does
> not say
> much about that. The rig he had at that time was that of a yawl.
>
> Straight sailing was something that proa builders seemed keen to
achieve
> so it may
> be possible to achieve though its sensitivity to weight placement may
> result in a lot
> of restriction of movement on board.
>
> Perhaps some proa owners could try to sail dead straight for at least
> one hour and
> see how much movement was necessary to achieve that and how much
desired
> movement
> was prevented for the same reason.
>
> Regards,
> Peter Raymond
>
>
>
>
>
>
> oceanplodder2003 wrote:
>
> >-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I've also thought about this and I'm convinced it's possible, probably
> >easy with the schooner, lately I've been considering the una rig and
> >that should be possible too.
> > The schooner rig- Remember that Slocum got Spray to steer downwind by
> >over easing both sails, should be relatively easy to do something
similar.
> > With the una rig my thoughts are to adjust balance by having the
> >forward rudder used as a daggerboard and by raising or lowering it
> >balance should always be perfect, then adjusting to self steer
> >hopefully becomes possible.
> >Just read that, wasn't too clear, hope it was understandable.
> >
> >
> >
> >-- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...> wrote:
> > 
> >
> >>G'Day,
> >>
> >>Here's a question that no one would probably tried yet.
> >>
> >>Can you put a sail up so that it is pulling somewhere forward of the
> >>mast, tie the rudder straight forward, and hace the boat sail itself
> >>downwind overnight?
> >>
> >>On the Schooner rig this could be the forward mainsail sheeted out.
> >>
> >>Actually I was only thinking about the schooner rig and haven't
> >>thought about the single rig they have on the biger boats.
> >>
> >>This is to saingle hand across a stretch of water taking more than a
> >>day.
> >>
> >>Doug
> >>
> >>   
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:31 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: PLOYSTYRENE AS A CORE MATERIAL?

For long term use I'd stick with a quality foam or honeycomb. The
resin , glass and exposure to nasty materials is still the same price
for a core that can out gass and generally not perform as well. For a
discourse on this there is something on the proafile yahoo group I was
wondering for the marginal extra cost of going to 20mm for the core in
polycore polypropylene honeycomb,
Robert --- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...>
wrote:
>
> Could it be used to make the flat platform on the camper?
>
> 15mm expensive foam sandwiched with 400db is stated on the plan.
>
> Was buying the polystyrene for the end caps today and thought...
>
> Doug
>

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006

For long term use I'd stick with a quality foam or honeycomb. The
resin , glass and exposure to nasty materials is still the same price
for a core that can out gass and generally not perform as well. For a
discourse on this there is something on the proafile yahoo group I was
wondering for the marginal extra cost of going to 20mm for the core in
polycore polypropylene honeycomb,
Robert --- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...>
wrote:
>
> Could it be used to make the flat platform on the camper?
>
> 15mm expensive foam sandwiched with 400db is stated on the plan.
>
> Was buying the polystyrene for the end caps today and thought...
>
> Doug
>

All true, still want to get out there and try it. harry, like any fast
multi is going to be a problem for any self steering. An electronic
auto pilot might handle the changes in apparent wind but I distrust
them and don't want to have to generate that much electricity. I read
somewhere about a system that used a towed impeller to produce
hydraulic pressure and hydraulic logic, excess power was fed into the
batteries, sounded promising, but it seems to have disappeared.

--- In harryproa@..., Peter Raymond <pramsec@a...> wrote:
>
> G'day Oceanplodder,
>
> Slocum sailed from Thursday Island to Cocos Islands in seventeen
days and
> according to him was only at the helm for three hours in that period.
> But remember
> that "Spray" was a long keel boat , heavy, with good directional
> stability.  It is also
> probable that Slocum had steady winds from one direction though he does
> not say
> much about that. The rig he had at that time was that of a yawl.
>
> Straight sailing was something that proa builders seemed keen to
achieve
> so it may
> be possible to achieve though its sensitivity to weight placement may
> result in a lot
> of restriction of movement on board.
>
> Perhaps some proa owners could try to sail dead straight for at least
> one hour and
> see how much movement was necessary to achieve that and how much
desired
> movement
> was prevented for the same reason.
>
> Regards,
> Peter Raymond
>
>
>
>
>
>
> oceanplodder2003 wrote:
>
> >-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I've also thought about this and I'm convinced it's possible, probably
> >easy with the schooner, lately I've been considering the una rig and
> >that should be possible too.
> > The schooner rig- Remember that Slocum got Spray to steer downwind by
> >over easing both sails, should be relatively easy to do something
similar.
> > With the una rig my thoughts are to adjust balance by having the
> >forward rudder used as a daggerboard and by raising or lowering it
> >balance should always be perfect, then adjusting to self steer
> >hopefully becomes possible.
> >Just read that, wasn't too clear, hope it was understandable.
> >
> >
> >
> >-- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>G'Day,
> >>
> >>Here's a question that no one would probably tried yet.
> >>
> >>Can you put a sail up so that it is pulling somewhere forward of the
> >>mast, tie the rudder straight forward, and hace the boat sail itself
> >>downwind overnight?
> >>
> >>On the Schooner rig this could be the forward mainsail sheeted out.
> >>
> >>Actually I was only thinking about the schooner rig and haven't
> >>thought about the single rig they have on the biger boats.
> >>
> >>This is to saingle hand across a stretch of water taking more than a
> >>day.
> >>
> >>Doug
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

-
I've also thought about this and I'm convinced it's possible, probably
easy with the schooner, lately I've been considering the una rig and
that should be possible too.
The schooner rig- Remember that Slocum got Spray to steer downwind by
over easing both sails, should be relatively easy to do something similar.
With the una rig my thoughts are to adjust balance by having the
forward rudder used as a daggerboard and by raising or lowering it
balance should always be perfect, then adjusting to self steer
hopefully becomes possible.
Just read that, wasn't too clear, hope it was understandable.
-- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...> wrote:

G'Day,
Here's a question that no one would probably tried yet.
Can you put a sail up so that it is pulling somewhere forward of the mast, tie the rudder straight forward, and hace the boat sail itself downwind overnight?
On the Schooner rig this could be the forward mainsail sheeted out.
Actually I was only thinking about the schooner rig and haven't thought about the single rig they have on the biger boats.
This is to saingle hand across a stretch of water taking more than a day.
Doug

Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
harryproa-unsubscribe@...
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Could it be used to make the flat platform on the camper?

15mm expensive foam sandwiched with 400db is stated on the plan.

Was buying the polystyrene for the end caps today and thought...

Doug

Found them, colour me stupid.

I want to build the 12m Harry. I had hoped to fly to Coff's and check
it out and maybe be started by now. The hold up is $$$$$. I need to
find a tenant for a commercial building I own , then I can get
started. Thought it was all done about a month ago but she's dicking
around. We have another potential checking it out Monday and I'm
hoping either he'll take it or the extra pressure will bring the first
player to the table.
I'm not a technical boffin as some on this and other proa sites are. i
just want to go sailing, on a budget, my family has certain
accomodation minimums I have to meet and I need to go fast. Nothing
else i've looked at seems to offer as good a mix of the three. Plus my
naturally perverse nature enjoys the idea of having something weird
and different.
You really seem to have got stuck in and are making serious progress,
haven't been able to find pics tho, any chance of putting them here?



-- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> OP,
>
>   You started building?
>
>   Yesterday pretty bad. Too difficult making the Camper top in one
piece with the rest of the hull. Possible, but ten times easier if
seperate mould for the deck/cabin top. Never mind, its together now,
hopefully gets easier now on. WW hull is interesting looking.
>    Some LW hull photos up in Yahoo.
>
>   Doug
>
> oceanplodder2003 <dana-tenacity@u...> wrote:
>   The only way to find out is get out there and do it, but i suggest
> your biggest enemy will be sea state. It will be easier in flatter
water.
> And you must be preparred to sacrifice speed. Consider the schooner
> going dead downwind (not that you'd ever want to). one sail either
> side and both eased past amidships. This should self steer DDW til a
> big wave comes along.
> Of course wind abeam or forward it should be easy, and if the boat is
> really fast your apparent could be kept on the beam even going
> downwind.  Can't wait to get one in the water and play with it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>

The only way to find out is get out there and do it, but i suggest
your biggest enemy will be sea state. It will be easier in flatter water.
And you must be preparred to sacrifice speed. Consider the schooner
going dead downwind (not that you'd ever want to). one sail either
side and both eased past amidships. This should self steer DDW til a
big wave comes along.
Of course wind abeam or forward it should be easy, and if the boat is
really fast your apparent could be kept on the beam even going
downwind.  Can't wait to get one in the water and play with it.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

The only way to find out is get out there and do it, but i suggest
your biggest enemy will be sea state. It will be easier in flatter water.
And you must be preparred to sacrifice speed. Consider the schooner
going dead downwind (not that you'd ever want to). one sail either
side and both eased past amidships. This should self steer DDW til a
big wave comes along.
Of course wind abeam or forward it should be easy, and if the boat is
really fast your apparent could be kept on the beam even going
downwind.  Can't wait to get one in the water and play with it.

-




I've also thought about this and I'm convinced it's possible, probably
easy with the schooner, lately I've been considering the una rig and
that should be possible too.
The schooner rig- Remember that Slocum got Spray to steer downwind by
over easing both sails, should be relatively easy to do something similar.
With the una rig my thoughts are to adjust balance by having the
forward rudder used as a daggerboard and by raising or lowering it
balance should always be perfect, then adjusting to self steer
hopefully becomes possible.
Just read that, wasn't too clear, hope it was understandable.



-- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> G'Day,
>
> Here's a question that no one would probably tried yet.
>
> Can you put a sail up so that it is pulling somewhere forward of the
> mast, tie the rudder straight forward, and hace the boat sail itself
> downwind overnight?
>
> On the Schooner rig this could be the forward mainsail sheeted out.
>
> Actually I was only thinking about the schooner rig and haven't
> thought about the single rig they have on the biger boats.
>
> This is to saingle hand across a stretch of water taking more than a
> day.
>
> Doug
>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

-




I've also thought about this and I'm convinced it's possible, probably
easy with the schooner, lately I've been considering the una rig and
that should be possible too.
  The schooner rig- Remember that Slocum got Spray to steer downwind by
over easing both sails, should be relatively easy to do something similar.
  With the una rig my thoughts are to adjust balance by having the
forward rudder used as a daggerboard and by raising or lowering it
balance should always be perfect, then adjusting to self steer
hopefully becomes possible.
Just read that, wasn't too clear, hope it was understandable.



-- In harryproa@..., "doha720" <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> G'Day,
>
> Here's a question that no one would probably tried yet.
>
> Can you put a sail up so that it is pulling somewhere forward of the
> mast, tie the rudder straight forward, and hace the boat sail itself
> downwind overnight?
>
> On the Schooner rig this could be the forward mainsail sheeted out.
>
> Actually I was only thinking about the schooner rig and haven't
> thought about the single rig they have on the biger boats.
>
> This is to saingle hand across a stretch of water taking more than a
> day.
>
> Doug
>

G'Day,

Here's a question that no one would probably tried yet.

Can you put a sail up so that it is pulling somewhere forward of the
mast, tie the rudder straight forward, and hace the boat sail itself
downwind overnight?

On the Schooner rig this could be the forward mainsail sheeted out.

Actually I was only thinking about the schooner rig and haven't
thought about the single rig they have on the biger boats.

This is to saingle hand across a stretch of water taking more than a
day.

Doug

G'day,

 

Not sure what you have seen - but there's photos in the yahoo group page. My photographer might come down to Mandurah again this weekend so updates possible.

 

Photos look good, you certainly are not mucking around!

 

Plenty of ideas on my mind now obviously getting more into the design.

Looking ahead to the mast and beams.

Got good ideas how to do them but would like possible advice on amounts of glass - or carbon.

Bit hard to describe it in words. I'll try:

 

Beams 6mm kiri strip planked, 150x170 rectangular boxes. Inside and out glass weights?

 

They will need some +/- 45 material inside and out, 275 would do if you can get it.  They will also need bulkheads at say, 400mm centres, plus one at the edge of the hulls.  Not sure if any more lengthwise material is required, dep[ends how much load you will have in the windward hull.  I suspect bending will be a bigger problem than breaking, in which case a layer of 400 uni top and bottom would be good.  Maybe a second layer from the leeward end to 1/3rd of the way along the beam.  Test them before installing them to be sure the don't bend excessively.

 

Masts same construction again, kiri strip planked, tapered to half diameter at the top. Two half shells glassed inside and out then joined ogether and taped. How important is cross the grain strength, double bias.

 

Cross grain is critical to keep the wood in place and counter twisting.  Again, I would increas the wood thickness or add uni similarly to the above, and test it before installing it.  Beefing it up after a test sail is easy enough, except at the bearings, so make this area overly strong.  Wooden beams and masts will be considerably heavier than carbon. 

 

About sailing - I'll probably have to keep at it, for the next week and a bit, as the garage will be unavailable after that, and I need to get as much use out of it as poss.

 

Are you polanning to get the rudder right before driving all the way down here for a sail?

 

rudder will be working before I go anywhere.  Could be down there in a couple of weekends, if the good weather continues.

 

Is the single system still a problem?

 

No, I have reverted to a modification of what worked before, with a new and better ball race.

 

Doug.

 

PS What was coming from Hungary?

 

The carbon.

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

Glad it's going well.  Any photos?  

 

Carbon will take at least 6 weeks.  Sorry.  

 

I will call you when I know what the sailing plan is.  Did nothing on it today, so already behind schedule.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 8:46 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: WW Hull starting soon

yEAH, G'FAY,

 

i'LL COME SAILING IF IT FITS IN WITH DRIVING UP TO pERTH.

 

Busy now - about got both hulls sorted. WW ull looks really neat.

 

How long  is this carbon order going to take, beacuse I'd like to buy a bit - for the beams and mast, but will be starting on the beams in about a week.

I guess about 5 or 10 sqms.

 

Thanks

Doug

proaharry <proa@...> wrote:

--- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> rOB,
>   
>   Where are you going
>   
>   Doug
>
> Rob Denney <proa@i...> wrote:
>           
>     G'day,
Sorry I did not reply, Yahoo cut me off and I did not notice.  You
did not miss much, the new rudder mechanism was not very successful. 
I have reverted to the tracks under the beams, should be sailing
again on Thursday or Friday, Matilda Bay.  Give me a call if you want
a sail.

Looks like we will be ordering some 300 gsm uni carbon this week. 
Price is $21/sqm.  Let me know if you want some. 

Regards,

Rob,

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006

---

All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Not sure what you have seen - but there's photos in the yahoo group page. My photographer might come down to Mandurah again this weekend so updates possible.

 

Photos look good, you certainly are not mucking around!

 

Plenty of ideas on my mind now obviously getting more into the design.

Looking ahead to the mast and beams.

Got good ideas how to do them but would like possible advice on amounts of glass - or carbon.

Bit hard to describe it in words. I'll try:

 

Beams 6mm kiri strip planked, 150x170 rectangular boxes. Inside and out glass weights?

 

They will need some +/- 45 material inside and out, 275 would do if you can get it.  They will also need bulkheads at say, 400mm centres, plus one at the edge of the hulls.  Not sure if any more lengthwise material is required, dep[ends how much load you will have in the windward hull.  I suspect bending will be a bigger problem than breaking, in which case a layer of 400 uni top and bottom would be good.  Maybe a second layer from the leeward end to 1/3rd of the way along the beam.  Test them before installing them to be sure the don't bend excessively.

 

Masts same construction again, kiri strip planked, tapered to half diameter at the top. Two half shells glassed inside and out then joined ogether and taped. How important is cross the grain strength, double bias.

 

Cross grain is critical to keep the wood in place and counter twisting.  Again, I would increas the wood thickness or add uni similarly to the above, and test it before installing it.  Beefing it up after a test sail is easy enough, except at the bearings, so make this area overly strong.  Wooden beams and masts will be considerably heavier than carbon. 

 

About sailing - I'll probably have to keep at it, for the next week and a bit, as the garage will be unavailable after that, and I need to get as much use out of it as poss.

 

Are you polanning to get the rudder right before driving all the way down here for a sail?

 

rudder will be working before I go anywhere.  Could be down there in a couple of weekends, if the good weather continues.

 

Is the single system still a problem?

 

No, I have reverted to a modification of what worked before, with a new and better ball race.

 

Doug.

 

PS What was coming from Hungary?

 

The carbon.

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

Glad it's going well.  Any photos?  

 

Carbon will take at least 6 weeks.  Sorry.  

 

I will call you when I know what the sailing plan is.  Did nothing on it today, so already behind schedule.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 8:46 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: WW Hull starting soon

yEAH, G'FAY,

 

i'LL COME SAILING IF IT FITS IN WITH DRIVING UP TO pERTH.

 

Busy now - about got both hulls sorted. WW ull looks really neat.

 

How long  is this carbon order going to take, beacuse I'd like to buy a bit - for the beams and mast, but will be starting on the beams in about a week.

I guess about 5 or 10 sqms.

 

Thanks

Doug

proaharry <proa@...> wrote:

--- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> rOB,
>   
>   Where are you going
>   
>   Doug
>
> Rob Denney <proa@i...> wrote:
>           
>     G'day,
Sorry I did not reply, Yahoo cut me off and I did not notice.  You
did not miss much, the new rudder mechanism was not very successful. 
I have reverted to the tracks under the beams, should be sailing
again on Thursday or Friday, Matilda Bay.  Give me a call if you want
a sail.

Looks like we will be ordering some 300 gsm uni carbon this week. 
Price is $21/sqm.  Let me know if you want some. 

Regards,

Rob,

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006

---

All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006

G'day,

 

Glad it's going well.  Any photos?  

 

Carbon will take at least 6 weeks.  Sorry.  

 

I will call you when I know what the sailing plan is.  Did nothing on it today, so already behind schedule.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 8:46 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: WW Hull starting soon

yEAH, G'FAY,

 

i'LL COME SAILING IF IT FITS IN WITH DRIVING UP TO pERTH.

 

Busy now - about got both hulls sorted. WW ull looks really neat.

 

How long  is this carbon order going to take, beacuse I'd like to buy a bit - for the beams and mast, but will be starting on the beams in about a week.

I guess about 5 or 10 sqms.

 

Thanks

Doug

proaharry <proa@...> wrote:

--- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> rOB,
>   
>   Where are you going
>   
>   Doug
>
> Rob Denney <proa@i...> wrote:
>           
>     G'day,
Sorry I did not reply, Yahoo cut me off and I did not notice.  You
did not miss much, the new rudder mechanism was not very successful. 
I have reverted to the tracks under the beams, should be sailing
again on Thursday or Friday, Matilda Bay.  Give me a call if you want
a sail.

Looks like we will be ordering some 300 gsm uni carbon this week. 
Price is $21/sqm.  Let me know if you want some. 

Regards,

Rob,

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 8:46 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: WW Hull starting soon

yEAH, G'FAY,

 

i'LL COME SAILING IF IT FITS IN WITH DRIVING UP TO pERTH.

 

Busy now - about got both hulls sorted. WW ull looks really neat.

 

How long  is this carbon order going to take, beacuse I'd like to buy a bit - for the beams and mast, but will be starting on the beams in about a week.

I guess about 5 or 10 sqms.

 

Thanks

Doug

proaharry <proa@...> wrote:

--- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> rOB,
>   
>   Where are you going
>   
>   Doug
>
> Rob Denney <proa@i...> wrote:
>           
>     G'day,
Sorry I did not reply, Yahoo cut me off and I did not notice.  You
did not miss much, the new rudder mechanism was not very successful. 
I have reverted to the tracks under the beams, should be sailing
again on Thursday or Friday, Matilda Bay.  Give me a call if you want
a sail.

Looks like we will be ordering some 300 gsm uni carbon this week. 
Price is $21/sqm.  Let me know if you want some. 

Regards,

Rob,

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/328 - Release Date: 5/1/2006

--- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> rOB,
>   
>   Where are you going
>   
>   Doug
>
> Rob Denney <proa@i...> wrote:
>           
>     G'day,
Sorry I did not reply, Yahoo cut me off and I did not notice.  You
did not miss much, the new rudder mechanism was not very successful. 
I have reverted to the tracks under the beams, should be sailing
again on Thursday or Friday, Matilda Bay.  Give me a call if you want
a sail.

Looks like we will be ordering some 300 gsm uni carbon this week. 
Price is $21/sqm.  Let me know if you want some. 

Regards,

Rob,

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

--- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> rOB,
>
>   Where are you going
>
>   Doug
>
> Rob Denney <proa@i...> wrote:
>
>     G'day,
Sorry I did not reply, Yahoo cut me off and I did not notice.  You
did not miss much, the new rudder mechanism was not very successful.
I have reverted to the tracks under the beams, should be sailing
again on Thursday or Friday, Matilda Bay.  Give me a call if you want
a sail.

Looks like we will be ordering some 300 gsm uni carbon this week.
Price is $21/sqm.  Let me know if you want some.

Regards,

Rob,

Hey Doug, I think you might have forgotten something ;o)

Jim Baltaxe
ITS Desktop Support
Victoria University of Wellington
NEW ZEALAND
(04) 463 5018 or 027 563 5018

Never fight someone with nothing left to lose.

Klein bottle for rent.  Inquire within.
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would
it?" -- Albert Einstein



> -----Original Message-----
> From: harryproa@...
> [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of doha720
> Sent: Sunday, 28 May 2006 11:23 p.m.
> To: harryproa@...
> Subject: [harryproa] News photos
>
> Gidday Mates,
>
> Got photographs taken today.
>
> That's me with the mask and icecream tub full of epoxy.
>
> Time since started about 2 weeks.
>
> No real problems.
>
> Smelly and dusty, and made the stock to low - call it a
> strong back, 'cos that's what you need to keep bending over.
> Could do with more space but the double length of the garage
> is really good for the 7m hull.
>
> Note no rudder web inside the lw hull - having faith in Rob's
> new system that goes on the beams.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>