----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 1:13 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: masts

Rob,

 

Is composite glass/kiri?

 

Doug

 

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

If it is composite, you will hear a lot of creaking and cracking before it breaks.  I would work on one of them doing the lifting as in a capsize you will probably have dumped one of them.

 

regards,

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 12:13 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: masts

Robert,

 

I'd like to sense a failure ahead of the crack, split whatever, so as to salvage the mast and simply add more glass around the outside. But that would be a fairly satisfactory level of strength if they - cause there are two of them - raise the hull.

 

Doug

Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:

Easy enough to check if the masts are strong enough. Load them up by
trying to lift the ww hull with a 100kg weight sitting on it.
I was looking at the characteristics of quality bamboo section and it
looks considerable better than glass weight for weight with 4GPa
youngs modulus and a breaking strain of 30kg/mm 2. It may be worth
considering for cheap masts. I am considering it myself for skinning
cores in areas where exra stiffness is wanted without the expense of
carbon. Hope carbon becomes more easily available and cheaper as it
is by far the best material.
Robert
-- In harryproa@..., "Robert" <cateran1949@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >   
> >   Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in the
sea
> breeze comes in 20knots.
> >   
> >   I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around
coming
> from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a
> bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two anchors
30
> degrees apart?
> >   
> >   Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.
> >   I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round pole
> up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I hope
it
> is all not going to break.
> >   Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.
> >   
> >   Doug
> >   
> >   
> >  
> > Myriam & Youri <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >        
> >
> >     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
> (#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
> (#default#ieooui) }                Dear Doug,
> >   
> >   
> >     Dear Wangkas,
> >
> >     
> >
> >     Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?
> >               We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have
> other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts
> where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles
> etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs,
…
> for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction
> method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us
autoclave
> quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the
> compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars)
which
> can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard
> autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for
> direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …
> >
> >     Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?
> >
> >      They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in
> section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress
> distribution, less wave interference …
> >
> >     Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.
> >               We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …
> >
> >     The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up
> and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising
> boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?
> >               What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect
we
> will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we
have
> some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …
> >   
> >   
> >   Best regards,
> >   
> >   
> >   Myriam & Youri
> >   Wangka bvba
> >   Belgium
> >   
> >   e-mail. info@w...
> >   web. www.wangkaboats.eu
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >     
> >
> >     yaendenboom <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >
> >     Dear people,
> >
> > Our site has been updated.
> > We kindly invite you to have a look at:
> >     www.wangkaboats.eu
> >
> > Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
> >     info@w...
> >
> > Thank you very much,
> >
> > Myriam & Youri
> > Wangka bvba
> > Belgium
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> >    Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
> >
> > 
> >
> >  Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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---

The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

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If it is composite, you will hear a lot of creaking and cracking before it breaks.  I would work on one of them doing the lifting as in a capsize you will probably have dumped one of them.

 

regards,

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 12:13 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: masts

Robert,

 

I'd like to sense a failure ahead of the crack, split whatever, so as to salvage the mast and simply add more glass around the outside. But that would be a fairly satisfactory level of strength if they - cause there are two of them - raise the hull.

 

Doug

Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:

Easy enough to check if the masts are strong enough. Load them up by
trying to lift the ww hull with a 100kg weight sitting on it.
I was looking at the characteristics of quality bamboo section and it
looks considerable better than glass weight for weight with 4GPa
youngs modulus and a breaking strain of 30kg/mm 2. It may be worth
considering for cheap masts. I am considering it myself for skinning
cores in areas where exra stiffness is wanted without the expense of
carbon. Hope carbon becomes more easily available and cheaper as it
is by far the best material.
Robert
-- In harryproa@..., "Robert" <cateran1949@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >   
> >   Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in the
sea
> breeze comes in 20knots.
> >   
> >   I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around
coming
> from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a
> bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two anchors
30
> degrees apart?
> >   
> >   Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.
> >   I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round pole
> up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I hope
it
> is all not going to break.
> >   Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.
> >   
> >   Doug
> >   
> >   
> >  
> > Myriam & Youri <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >        
> >
> >     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
> (#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
> (#default#ieooui) }                Dear Doug,
> >   
> >   
> >     Dear Wangkas,
> >
> >     
> >
> >     Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?
> >               We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have
> other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts
> where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles
> etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs,
…
> for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction
> method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us
autoclave
> quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the
> compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars)
which
> can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard
> autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for
> direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …
> >
> >     Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?
> >
> >      They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in
> section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress
> distribution, less wave interference …
> >
> >     Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.
> >               We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …
> >
> >     The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up
> and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising
> boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?
> >               What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect
we
> will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we
have
> some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …
> >   
> >   
> >   Best regards,
> >   
> >   
> >   Myriam & Youri
> >   Wangka bvba
> >   Belgium
> >   
> >   e-mail. info@w...
> >   web. www.wangkaboats.eu
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >     
> >
> >     yaendenboom <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >
> >     Dear people,
> >
> > Our site has been updated.
> > We kindly invite you to have a look at:
> >     www.wangkaboats.eu
> >
> > Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
> >     info@w...
> >
> > Thank you very much,
> >
> > Myriam & Youri
> > Wangka bvba
> > Belgium
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> >    Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
> >
> > 
> >
> >  Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

-I was giving a lecture the other day about diffusion rates of CO2
across stomata of tree leaves- big topic at the moment with CO2
increases effectively doubling the gradient- and a student said she
couldn't understand the maths. I said  glibly 'its easy' and started
to go through the calculations. Oops! I'd stuffed up some simple
arithmetic. She could understand it when I got it right.

If you can get carbon tow at $30 or even $100 a kg its a no brainer
for the weight savings on a mast, especially seeing it's weight where
you don't want it.
  Robert


-- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@i...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> You are right (and I am wrong) about 2 masts vs one.  The stiffness
and the strength are different, and it is the strength which needs to
be enough to tip the boat over on either mast of a schooner.  I will
redo some of my calculations for the bigger boats.
>
> Not so sure about the load attachments to test the mast, but no
doubt if there are 5 attachments to the top half and it tips the boat
over, the mast will not break in normal use.
>
> Re carbon tow at $30/kg.  The actual mast is made up of about 60%
carbon and 40% resin.  The resin costs about $13 per kg so the actual
mast cost is considerably less.  There is also a lot less wastage
than with a wooden mast, which also needs glassing for protection,
but this adds nothing to the stiffness.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Robert
>   To: harryproa@...
>   Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:41 AM
>   Subject: [harryproa] Re: masts
>
>
>   -I would have thought that with the safety factor needed for
gusts
>   and wave actions it wouldn't need quite that level of load
spreading.
>   The mast has to be able to handle gusts while in a wave trough at
the
>   same time as being jerked around by chop. I would have thought
that
>   just a spread load for the top half would be enough., especially
as
>   that is where the moments are. By the way, working on the figures
for
>   loadings on masts makes me more impressed by the Visionarry mast.
>
>   My calculations though, don't come out as two una rigs weighing
that
>   much more than a single rig of the same area when the extra
stiffness
>   required for  working sail area of the taller rig are considered.
Add
>   30% to the top of the mast with the same taper and there is
nothing
>   left to attach a halliard to.  The short masts need to have
enough
>   strength each to be able to lift the ww hull and therefore the
bottom
>   2m need to be about the same, but only need to have enough
stiffness
>   to carry half that load of working sail. I am not sure how much
extra
>   weight is needed to give that stiffness for the taller mast or
>   whether it is a natural consequence of the materials stiffness to
>   strength ratio. If the latter I can see the extra 30-40% weight
of
>   the two mast set up. I see the main advantage of a single rig is
>   catching cleaner air in light conditons, rather than weight.
>   regards,
>   robert
>   -- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@i...>
wrote:
>   >
>   > G'day,
>   >
>   > Not that easy as the pulling load has to be evenly distributed
>   along the mast.  Needs a lot of pulleys so that the single load
can
>   be dissipated to minimum 10 points along the mast.
>   >
>   > regards,
>   >
>   > Rob----- Original Message -----
>   >   From: Robert
>   >   To: harryproa@...
>   >   Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:38 PM
>   >   Subject: [harryproa] Re: masts
>   >
>   >
>   >   Easy enough to check if the masts are strong enough. Load
them up
>   by
>   >   trying to lift the ww hull with a 100kg weight sitting on it.
>   >   I was looking at the characteristics of quality bamboo
section
>   and it
>   >   looks considerable better than glass weight for weight with
4GPa
>   >   youngs modulus and a breaking strain of 30kg/mm 2. It may be
>   worth
>   >   considering for cheap masts. I am considering it myself for
>   skinning
>   >   cores in areas where exra stiffness is wanted without the
expense
>   of
>   >   carbon. Hope carbon becomes more easily available and cheaper
as
>   it
>   >   is by far the best material.
>   >   Robert
>   >   -- In harryproa@..., "Robert"
<cateran1949@y...>
>   wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   > --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines
<doha720@y...>
>   >   wrote:
>   >   > >
>   >   > > Hi,
>   >   > >
>   >   > >   Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored
in
>   the
>   >   sea
>   >   > breeze comes in 20knots.
>   >   > >
>   >   > >   I was wondering about general ideas about swinging
around
>   >   coming
>   >   > from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you
anchor a
>   >   > bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two
>   anchors
>   >   30
>   >   > degrees apart?
>   >   > >
>   >   > >   Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.
>   >   > >   I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a
round
>   pole
>   >   > up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull.
I
>   hope
>   >   it
>   >   > is all not going to break.
>   >   > >   Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.
>   >   > >
>   >   > >   Doug
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > > Myriam & Youri <wangka@s...> wrote:
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
>   >   > (#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url
(#default#VML);}  .shape
>   >   > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
>   >   > (#default#ieooui) }                Dear Doug,
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >     Dear Wangkas,
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >     Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished
sailing
>   boat?
>   >   > >               We know it takes a long time, but sometimes
we
>   have
>   >   > other worries on our minds . like carbon spars for
classical
>   yachts
>   >   > where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits,
>   poles
>   >   > etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels
and
>   bulbs,
>   >   .
>   >   > for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a
>   construction
>   >   > method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us
>   >   autoclave
>   >   > quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on
the
>   >   > compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5
Bars)
>   >   which
>   >   > can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by
standard
>   >   > autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a
method
>   for
>   >   > direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction .
>   >   > >
>   >   > >     Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?
>   >   > >
>   >   > >      They are not only rounded in length but also
elliptical
>   in
>   >   > section and will be constructed VAPM. less windage, better
>   stress
>   >   > distribution, less wave interference .
>   >   > >
>   >   > >     Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming
>   together.
>   >   > >               We are glad, how are you going to construct
>   it ? .
>   >   > >
>   >   > >     The boat really swings around at the moment without
masts
>   up
>   >   > and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the
>   cruising
>   >   > boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?
>   >   > >               What do you mean with swinging around ? I
>   suspect
>   >   we
>   >   > will but that depends on the interest shown . for the
moment we
>   >   have
>   >   > some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany .
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >   Best regards,
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >   Myriam & Youri
>   >   > >   Wangka bvba
>   >   > >   Belgium
>   >   > >
>   >   > >   e-mail. info@w...
>   >   > >   web. www.wangkaboats.eu
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >     yaendenboom <wangka@s...> wrote:
>   >   > >
>   >   > >     Dear people,
>   >   > >
>   >   > > Our site has been updated.
>   >   > > We kindly invite you to have a look at:
>   >   > >     www.wangkaboats.eu
>   >   > >
>   >   > > Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
>   >   > >     info@w...
>   >   > >
>   >   > > Thank you very much,
>   >   > >
>   >   > > Myriam & Youri
>   >   > > Wangka bvba
>   >   > > Belgium
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >    Send instant messages to your online friends
>   >   > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >  Send instant messages to your online friends
>   >   > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > ----------------------------------------------------------------
----
>   ----------
>   >
>   >
>   >   Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>   >   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>   >   Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release
Date:
>   8/23/2006
>   >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>   Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>   Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date:
8/23/2006
>

Rob, ...... or anyone else on the forum...

Ever figure out what is hull speed for an asymmetric proa design ?  Or how the
current
mathematical approximations are affected by the difference in hull lengths and
underwater
profile ?

Likely the lack of on the water experience and measurement equipment may affect
the
possibility of evaluating the issue.  But, was curious if before "Rare Bird" was
or is sold off
did any acurate test made to compare predicted versus actual performance?  Same
goes
for the elementaries although not sure whether they are displacement, planing or
mixed
hull speeds.

JT

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 12:13 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: masts

Robert,

 

I'd like to sense a failure ahead of the crack, split whatever, so as to salvage the mast and simply add more glass around the outside. But that would be a fairly satisfactory level of strength if they - cause there are two of them - raise the hull.

 

Doug

Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:

Easy enough to check if the masts are strong enough. Load them up by
trying to lift the ww hull with a 100kg weight sitting on it.
I was looking at the characteristics of quality bamboo section and it
looks considerable better than glass weight for weight with 4GPa
youngs modulus and a breaking strain of 30kg/mm 2. It may be worth
considering for cheap masts. I am considering it myself for skinning
cores in areas where exra stiffness is wanted without the expense of
carbon. Hope carbon becomes more easily available and cheaper as it
is by far the best material.
Robert
-- In harryproa@..., "Robert" <cateran1949@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >   
> >   Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in the
sea
> breeze comes in 20knots.
> >   
> >   I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around
coming
> from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a
> bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two anchors
30
> degrees apart?
> >   
> >   Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.
> >   I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round pole
> up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I hope
it
> is all not going to break.
> >   Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.
> >   
> >   Doug
> >   
> >   
> >  
> > Myriam & Youri <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >        
> >
> >     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
> (#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
> (#default#ieooui) }                Dear Doug,
> >   
> >   
> >     Dear Wangkas,
> >
> >     
> >
> >     Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?
> >               We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have
> other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts
> where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles
> etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs,
…
> for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction
> method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us
autoclave
> quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the
> compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars)
which
> can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard
> autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for
> direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …
> >
> >     Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?
> >
> >      They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in
> section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress
> distribution, less wave interference …
> >
> >     Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.
> >               We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …
> >
> >     The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up
> and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising
> boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?
> >               What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect
we
> will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we
have
> some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …
> >   
> >   
> >   Best regards,
> >   
> >   
> >   Myriam & Youri
> >   Wangka bvba
> >   Belgium
> >   
> >   e-mail. info@w...
> >   web. www.wangkaboats.eu
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >     
> >
> >     yaendenboom <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >
> >     Dear people,
> >
> > Our site has been updated.
> > We kindly invite you to have a look at:
> >     www.wangkaboats.eu
> >
> > Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
> >     info@w...
> >
> > Thank you very much,
> >
> > Myriam & Youri
> > Wangka bvba
> > Belgium
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> >    Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
> >
> > 
> >
> >  Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
>

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----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 12:07 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] site update

Rob,

 

You are talking about boats like the harrigami that you anchored a few times?

 

Bucket I understand.

 

Elemntarry is so small I see it tight up against the shore out of the wind - only here at Mandurah I'm on the opposite side of the channel to the wind direction, and ave a low scrub sandy finger that sbreaks no wind.

I imagined the bigger boats will tend to stay off shore further - not that they can't get fairly close in, in about a foot or two of water?

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

I used a bridle from the bows and adjusted it so the join was near enough the middle of the boat.  Worked pretty well, but the boat still blew around in the wind a lot more than the monos so I dropped a bucket in the water and tied it to the aft beam.  Slowed it down a bit more.  Two anchors will not help much as the boat swings before the warps get tight and take the load.  You could try one from each end and keep them fairly tight but a big scope is required.

 

regards,

Rob 

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 7:25 PM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] site update

Hi,

 

Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in the sea breeze comes in 20knots.

 

I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around coming from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two anchors 30 degrees apart?

 

Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.

I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round pole up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I hope it is all not going to break.

Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.

 

Doug

 

 

Myriam & Youri <wangka@...> wrote:

Dear Doug,

 

 

Dear Wangkas,

 

Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?

            We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs, … for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us autoclave quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars) which can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …

Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?

 They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress distribution, less wave interference …

Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.

            We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …

The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?

            What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect we will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we have some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Myriam & Youri

Wangka bvba

Belgium

 

e-mail. info@...

web. www.wangkaboats.eu

 

 

 

 

yaendenboom <wangka@...> wrote:

Dear people,

Our site has been updated.
We kindly invite you to have a look at:
    www.wangkaboats.eu

Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
    info@...

Thank you very much,

Myriam & Youri
Wangka bvba
Belgium

 

 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com __._,_.___ __,_._,___

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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
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Easy enough to check if the masts are strong enough. Load them up by
trying to lift the ww hull with a 100kg weight sitting on it.
I was looking at the characteristics of quality bamboo section and it
looks considerable better than glass weight for weight with 4GPa
youngs modulus and a breaking strain of 30kg/mm 2. It may be worth
considering for cheap masts. I am considering it myself for skinning
cores in areas where exra stiffness is wanted without the expense of
carbon. Hope carbon becomes more easily available and cheaper as it
is by far the best material.
Robert
-- In harryproa@..., "Robert" <cateran1949@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >   
> >   Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in the
sea
> breeze comes in 20knots.
> >   
> >   I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around
coming
> from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a
> bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two anchors
30
> degrees apart?
> >   
> >   Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.
> >   I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round pole
> up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I hope
it
> is all not going to break.
> >   Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.
> >   
> >   Doug
> >   
> >   
> >  
> > Myriam & Youri <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >        
> >
> >     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
> (#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
> (#default#ieooui) }                Dear Doug,
> >   
> >   
> >     Dear Wangkas,
> >
> >     
> >
> >     Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?
> >               We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have
> other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts
> where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles
> etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs,
…
> for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction
> method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us
autoclave
> quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the
> compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars)
which
> can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard
> autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for
> direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …
> >
> >     Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?
> >
> >      They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in
> section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress
> distribution, less wave interference …
> >
> >     Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.
> >               We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …
> >
> >     The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up
> and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising
> boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?
> >               What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect
we
> will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we
have
> some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …
> >   
> >   
> >   Best regards,
> >   
> >   
> >   Myriam & Youri
> >   Wangka bvba
> >   Belgium
> >   
> >   e-mail. info@w...
> >   web. www.wangkaboats.eu
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >     
> >
> >     yaendenboom <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >
> >     Dear people,
> >
> > Our site has been updated.
> > We kindly invite you to have a look at:
> >     www.wangkaboats.eu
> >
> > Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
> >     info@w...
> >
> > Thank you very much,
> >
> > Myriam & Youri
> > Wangka bvba
> > Belgium
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> >    Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
> >
> > 
> >
> >  Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

G'day,

 

I used a bridle from the bows and adjusted it so the join was near enough the middle of the boat.  Worked pretty well, but the boat still blew around in the wind a lot more than the monos so I dropped a bucket in the water and tied it to the aft beam.  Slowed it down a bit more.  Two anchors will not help much as the boat swings before the warps get tight and take the load.  You could try one from each end and keep them fairly tight but a big scope is required.

 

regards,

Rob 

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 7:25 PM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] site update

Hi,

 

Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in the sea breeze comes in 20knots.

 

I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around coming from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two anchors 30 degrees apart?

 

Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.

I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round pole up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I hope it is all not going to break.

Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.

 

Doug

 

 

Myriam & Youri <wangka@...> wrote:

Dear Doug,

 

 

Dear Wangkas,

 

Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?

            We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs, … for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us autoclave quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars) which can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …

Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?

 They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress distribution, less wave interference …

Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.

            We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …

The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?

            What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect we will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we have some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Myriam & Youri

Wangka bvba

Belgium

 

e-mail. info@...

web. www.wangkaboats.eu

 

 

 

 

yaendenboom <wangka@...> wrote:

Dear people,

Our site has been updated.
We kindly invite you to have a look at:
    www.wangkaboats.eu

Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
    info@...

Thank you very much,

Myriam & Youri
Wangka bvba
Belgium

 

 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com __._,_.___ __,_._,___

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
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Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----

From: ntsrfer

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:35 PM

Subject: [harryproa] video of visionary

Hello ,I was watching the video of the visionary sail, sweet looking
boat. But I have a few questions? The mast looks very whippy or flexing
alot with the sail ? Also the bow seemed to be almost over powered? or
riding very low in the water for the sea state and wind strength? Just
curious.

Todd

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

Hello ,I was watching the video of the visionary sail, sweet looking
boat. But I have a few questions? The mast looks very whippy or flexing
alot with the sail ? Also the bow seemed to be almost over powered? or
riding very low in the water for the sea state and wind strength? Just
curious.

Todd

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:41 AM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: masts

-I would have thought that with the safety factor needed for gusts
and wave actions it wouldn't need quite that level of load spreading.
The mast has to be able to handle gusts while in a wave trough at the
same time as being jerked around by chop. I would have thought that
just a spread load for the top half would be enough., especially as
that is where the moments are. By the way, working on the figures for
loadings on masts makes me more impressed by the Visionarry mast.

My calculations though, don't come out as two una rigs weighing that
much more than a single rig of the same area when the extra stiffness
required for  working sail area of the taller rig are considered. Add
30% to the top of the mast with the same taper and there is nothing
left to attach a halliard to.  The short masts need to have enough
strength each to be able to lift the ww hull and therefore the bottom
2m need to be about the same, but only need to have enough stiffness
to carry half that load of working sail. I am not sure how much extra
weight is needed to give that stiffness for the taller mast or
whether it is a natural consequence of the materials stiffness to
strength ratio. If the latter I can see the extra 30-40% weight of
the two mast set up. I see the main advantage of a single rig is
catching cleaner air in light conditons, rather than weight.
regards,
robert
-- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@i...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Not that easy as the pulling load has to be evenly distributed
along the mast.  Needs a lot of pulleys so that the single load can
be dissipated to minimum 10 points along the mast. 
>
> regards,
>
> Rob----- Original Message -----
>   From: Robert
>   To: harryproa@...
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:38 PM
>   Subject: [harryproa] Re: masts
>
>
>   Easy enough to check if the masts are strong enough. Load them up
by
>   trying to lift the ww hull with a 100kg weight sitting on it.
>   I was looking at the characteristics of quality bamboo section
and it
>   looks considerable better than glass weight for weight with 4GPa
>   youngs modulus and a breaking strain of 30kg/mm 2. It may be
worth
>   considering for cheap masts. I am considering it myself for
skinning
>   cores in areas where exra stiffness is wanted without the expense
of
>   carbon. Hope carbon becomes more easily available and cheaper as
it
>   is by far the best material.
>   Robert
>   -- In harryproa@..., "Robert" <cateran1949@y...>
wrote:
>   >
>   > --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...>
>   wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Hi,
>   > >   
>   > >   Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in
the
>   sea
>   > breeze comes in 20knots.
>   > >   
>   > >   I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around
>   coming
>   > from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a
>   > bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two
anchors
>   30
>   > degrees apart?
>   > >   
>   > >   Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.
>   > >   I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round
pole
>   > up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I
hope
>   it
>   > is all not going to break.
>   > >   Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.
>   > >   
>   > >   Doug
>   > >   
>   > >   
>   > >  
>   > > Myriam & Youri <wangka@s...> wrote:
>   > >        
>   > >
>   > >     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
>   > (#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
>   > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
>   > (#default#ieooui) }                Dear Doug,
>   > >   
>   > >   
>   > >     Dear Wangkas,
>   > >
>   > >     
>   > >
>   > >     Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing
boat?
>   > >               We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we
have
>   > other worries on our minds . like carbon spars for classical
yachts
>   > where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits,
poles
>   > etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and
bulbs,
>   .
>   > for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a
construction
>   > method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us
>   autoclave
>   > quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the
>   > compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars)
>   which
>   > can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard
>   > autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method
for
>   > direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction .
>   > >
>   > >     Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?
>   > >
>   > >      They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical
in
>   > section and will be constructed VAPM. less windage, better
stress
>   > distribution, less wave interference .
>   > >
>   > >     Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming
together.
>   > >               We are glad, how are you going to construct
it ? .
>   > >
>   > >     The boat really swings around at the moment without masts
up
>   > and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the
cruising
>   > boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?
>   > >               What do you mean with swinging around ? I
suspect
>   we
>   > will but that depends on the interest shown . for the moment we
>   have
>   > some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany .
>   > >   
>   > >   
>   > >   Best regards,
>   > >   
>   > >   
>   > >   Myriam & Youri
>   > >   Wangka bvba
>   > >   Belgium
>   > >   
>   > >   e-mail. info@w...
>   > >   web. www.wangkaboats.eu
>   > >   
>   > >   
>   > >   
>   > >
>   > >     
>   > >
>   > >     yaendenboom <wangka@s...> wrote:
>   > >
>   > >     Dear people,
>   > >
>   > > Our site has been updated.
>   > > We kindly invite you to have a look at:
>   > >     www.wangkaboats.eu
>   > >
>   > > Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
>   > >     info@w...
>   > >
>   > > Thank you very much,
>   > >
>   > > Myriam & Youri
>   > > Wangka bvba
>   > > Belgium
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >   
>   > >    Send instant messages to your online friends
>   > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
>   > >
>   > > 
>   > >
>   > >  Send instant messages to your online friends
>   > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>   > >
>   >
>
>
>
>   
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>   Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>   Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date:
8/23/2006
>

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

-I would have thought that with the safety factor needed for gusts
and wave actions it wouldn't need quite that level of load spreading.
The mast has to be able to handle gusts while in a wave trough at the
same time as being jerked around by chop. I would have thought that
just a spread load for the top half would be enough., especially as
that is where the moments are. By the way, working on the figures for
loadings on masts makes me more impressed by the Visionarry mast.

My calculations though, don't come out as two una rigs weighing that
much more than a single rig of the same area when the extra stiffness
required for  working sail area of the taller rig are considered. Add
30% to the top of the mast with the same taper and there is nothing
left to attach a halliard to.  The short masts need to have enough
strength each to be able to lift the ww hull and therefore the bottom
2m need to be about the same, but only need to have enough stiffness
to carry half that load of working sail. I am not sure how much extra
weight is needed to give that stiffness for the taller mast or
whether it is a natural consequence of the materials stiffness to
strength ratio. If the latter I can see the extra 30-40% weight of
the two mast set up. I see the main advantage of a single rig is
catching cleaner air in light conditons, rather than weight.
regards,
  robert
-- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@i...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Not that easy as the pulling load has to be evenly distributed
along the mast.  Needs a lot of pulleys so that the single load can
be dissipated to minimum 10 points along the mast.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob----- Original Message -----
>   From: Robert
>   To: harryproa@...
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:38 PM
>   Subject: [harryproa] Re: masts
>
>
>   Easy enough to check if the masts are strong enough. Load them up
by
>   trying to lift the ww hull with a 100kg weight sitting on it.
>   I was looking at the characteristics of quality bamboo section
and it
>   looks considerable better than glass weight for weight with 4GPa
>   youngs modulus and a breaking strain of 30kg/mm 2. It may be
worth
>   considering for cheap masts. I am considering it myself for
skinning
>   cores in areas where exra stiffness is wanted without the expense
of
>   carbon. Hope carbon becomes more easily available and cheaper as
it
>   is by far the best material.
>   Robert
>   -- In harryproa@..., "Robert" <cateran1949@y...>
wrote:
>   >
>   > --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...>
>   wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Hi,
>   > >
>   > >   Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in
the
>   sea
>   > breeze comes in 20knots.
>   > >
>   > >   I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around
>   coming
>   > from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a
>   > bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two
anchors
>   30
>   > degrees apart?
>   > >
>   > >   Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.
>   > >   I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round
pole
>   > up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I
hope
>   it
>   > is all not going to break.
>   > >   Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.
>   > >
>   > >   Doug
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > Myriam & Youri <wangka@s...> wrote:
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
>   > (#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
>   > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
>   > (#default#ieooui) }                Dear Doug,
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >     Dear Wangkas,
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >     Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing
boat?
>   > >               We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we
have
>   > other worries on our minds . like carbon spars for classical
yachts
>   > where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits,
poles
>   > etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and
bulbs,
>   .
>   > for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a
construction
>   > method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us
>   autoclave
>   > quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the
>   > compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars)
>   which
>   > can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard
>   > autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method
for
>   > direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction .
>   > >
>   > >     Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?
>   > >
>   > >      They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical
in
>   > section and will be constructed VAPM. less windage, better
stress
>   > distribution, less wave interference .
>   > >
>   > >     Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming
together.
>   > >               We are glad, how are you going to construct
it ? .
>   > >
>   > >     The boat really swings around at the moment without masts
up
>   > and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the
cruising
>   > boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?
>   > >               What do you mean with swinging around ? I
suspect
>   we
>   > will but that depends on the interest shown . for the moment we
>   have
>   > some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany .
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >   Best regards,
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >   Myriam & Youri
>   > >   Wangka bvba
>   > >   Belgium
>   > >
>   > >   e-mail. info@w...
>   > >   web. www.wangkaboats.eu
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >     yaendenboom <wangka@s...> wrote:
>   > >
>   > >     Dear people,
>   > >
>   > > Our site has been updated.
>   > > We kindly invite you to have a look at:
>   > >     www.wangkaboats.eu
>   > >
>   > > Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
>   > >     info@w...
>   > >
>   > > Thank you very much,
>   > >
>   > > Myriam & Youri
>   > > Wangka bvba
>   > > Belgium
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >    Send instant messages to your online friends
>   > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >  Send instant messages to your online friends
>   > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>   > >
>   >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>   Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>   Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date:
8/23/2006
>

Zyvex Corporation today announced the world’s first sailboat mast using carbon nanotubes. The mast, unveiled last week at the nanoTX '06 tradeshow in Dallas, incorporates Zyvex’s NanoSolve® materials to improve yacht performance by significantly increasing the strength and stiffness of the mast without adding weight. The mast was built for the new Synergy 350 RL (www.synergyachts.com).

Previous state-of-the-art masts were made of layers of carbon fiber fabric, bonded together with epoxy. The new mast upgrades that basic epoxy with Zyvex’s NanoSolve Enhanced Epoxy to deliver a new level of performance.

Based on Zyvex’s work for NASA in developing composite-in-composite materials, NanoSolve disperses carbon nanotubes into the epoxy matrix to provide stiffer and tougher composite structures. With a tensile strength 5-10 times higher than carbon fibers, nanotubes reinforce the epoxy and make the entire structure significantly stronger........SNIP

From: Robert

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:38 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: masts

Easy enough to check if the masts are strong enough. Load them up by
trying to lift the ww hull with a 100kg weight sitting on it.
I was looking at the characteristics of quality bamboo section and it
looks considerable better than glass weight for weight with 4GPa
youngs modulus and a breaking strain of 30kg/mm 2. It may be worth
considering for cheap masts. I am considering it myself for skinning
cores in areas where exra stiffness is wanted without the expense of
carbon. Hope carbon becomes more easily available and cheaper as it
is by far the best material.
Robert
-- In harryproa@..., "Robert" <cateran1949@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >   
> >   Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in the
sea
> breeze comes in 20knots.
> >   
> >   I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around
coming
> from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a
> bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two anchors
30
> degrees apart?
> >   
> >   Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.
> >   I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round pole
> up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I hope
it
> is all not going to break.
> >   Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.
> >   
> >   Doug
> >   
> >   
> >  
> > Myriam & Youri <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >        
> >
> >     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
> (#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
> (#default#ieooui) }                Dear Doug,
> >   
> >   
> >     Dear Wangkas,
> >
> >     
> >
> >     Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?
> >               We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have
> other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts
> where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles
> etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs,
…
> for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction
> method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us
autoclave
> quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the
> compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars)
which
> can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard
> autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for
> direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …
> >
> >     Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?
> >
> >      They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in
> section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress
> distribution, less wave interference …
> >
> >     Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.
> >               We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …
> >
> >     The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up
> and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising
> boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?
> >               What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect
we
> will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we
have
> some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …
> >   
> >   
> >   Best regards,
> >   
> >   
> >   Myriam & Youri
> >   Wangka bvba
> >   Belgium
> >   
> >   e-mail. info@w...
> >   web. www.wangkaboats.eu
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >     
> >
> >     yaendenboom <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >
> >     Dear people,
> >
> > Our site has been updated.
> > We kindly invite you to have a look at:
> >     www.wangkaboats.eu
> >
> > Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
> >     info@w...
> >
> > Thank you very much,
> >
> > Myriam & Youri
> > Wangka bvba
> > Belgium
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> >    Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
> >
> > 
> >
> >  Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
>

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

Easy enough to check if the masts are strong enough. Load them up by
trying to lift the ww hull with a 100kg weight sitting on it.
I was looking at the characteristics of quality bamboo section and it
looks considerable better than glass weight for weight with 4GPa
youngs modulus and a breaking strain of 30kg/mm 2. It may be worth
considering for cheap masts. I am considering it myself for skinning
cores in areas where exra stiffness is wanted without the expense of
carbon. Hope carbon becomes more easily available and cheaper as it
is by far the best material.
  Robert
-- In harryproa@..., "Robert" <cateran1949@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >   Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in the
sea
> breeze comes in 20knots.
> >
> >   I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around
coming
> from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a
> bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two anchors
30
> degrees apart?
> >
> >   Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.
> >   I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round pole
> up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I hope
it
> is all not going to break.
> >   Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.
> >
> >   Doug
> >
> >
> >
> > Myriam & Youri <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
> (#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
> {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
> (#default#ieooui) }                Dear Doug,
> >
> >
> >     Dear Wangkas,
> >
> >
> >
> >     Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?
> >               We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have
> other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts
> where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles
> etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs,
…
> for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction
> method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us
autoclave
> quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the
> compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars)
which
> can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard
> autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for
> direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …
> >
> >     Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?
> >
> >      They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in
> section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress
> distribution, less wave interference …
> >
> >     Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.
> >               We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …
> >
> >     The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up
> and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising
> boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?
> >               What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect
we
> will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we
have
> some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …
> >
> >
> >   Best regards,
> >
> >
> >   Myriam & Youri
> >   Wangka bvba
> >   Belgium
> >
> >   e-mail. info@w...
> >   web. www.wangkaboats.eu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     yaendenboom <wangka@s...> wrote:
> >
> >     Dear people,
> >
> > Our site has been updated.
> > We kindly invite you to have a look at:
> >     www.wangkaboats.eu
> >
> > Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
> >     info@w...
> >
> > Thank you very much,
> >
> > Myriam & Youri
> > Wangka bvba
> > Belgium
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >    Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >  Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
>

--- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>   Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in the sea
breeze comes in 20knots.
>
>   I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around coming
from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a
bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two anchors 30
degrees apart?
>
>   Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.
>   I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round pole
up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I hope it
is all not going to break.
>   Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.
>
>   Doug
>
>
>
> Myriam & Youri <wangka@s...> wrote:
>
>
>     v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
(#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
(#default#ieooui) }                Dear Doug,
>
>
>     Dear Wangkas,
>
>
>
>     Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?
>               We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have
other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts
where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles
etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs, …
for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction
method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us autoclave
quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the
compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars) which
can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard
autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for
direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …
>
>     Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?
>
>      They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in
section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress
distribution, less wave interference …
>
>     Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.
>               We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …
>
>     The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up
and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising
boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?
>               What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect we
will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we have
some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …
>
>
>   Best regards,
>
>
>   Myriam & Youri
>   Wangka bvba
>   Belgium
>
>   e-mail. info@w...
>   web. www.wangkaboats.eu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     yaendenboom <wangka@s...> wrote:
>
>     Dear people,
>
> Our site has been updated.
> We kindly invite you to have a look at:
>     www.wangkaboats.eu
>
> Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
>     info@w...
>
> Thank you very much,
>
> Myriam & Youri
> Wangka bvba
> Belgium
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>  Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 7:25 PM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] site update

Hi,

 

Just meant swinging around on the water, like anchored in the sea breeze comes in 20knots.

 

I was wondering about general ideas about swinging around coming from experienced multihullers out there. Like when you anchor a bigger boat out further where the wind is. What about two anchors 30 degrees apart?

 

Mast is same as boat - kiri strip and glass.

I've tapered the tops to half dimensions. There is a round pole up a metre and a half into the mast that slots in the hull. I hope it is all not going to break.

Obviously it is heavy but is cheaper.

 

Doug

 

 

Myriam & Youri <wangka@...> wrote:

Dear Doug,

 

 

Dear Wangkas,

 

Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?

            We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs, … for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us autoclave quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars) which can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …

Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?

 They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress distribution, less wave interference …

Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.

            We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …

The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?

            What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect we will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we have some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Myriam & Youri

Wangka bvba

Belgium

 

e-mail. info@...

web. www.wangkaboats.eu

 

 

 

 

yaendenboom <wangka@...> wrote:

Dear people,

Our site has been updated.
We kindly invite you to have a look at:
    www.wangkaboats.eu

Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
    info@...

Thank you very much,

Myriam & Youri
Wangka bvba
Belgium

 

 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com __._,_.___ __,_._,___

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

Dear Doug,

 

 

Dear Wangkas,

 

Nice pictures and all, but where is a finished sailing boat?

            We know it takes a long time, but sometimes we have other worries on our minds … like carbon spars for classical yachts where we have to sort out two boats, masts, booms, sprits, poles etc,  we have to make molds and plugs for rudders, keels and bulbs, … for the carbon parts we are achieving and testing  a construction method VAPM (vacuum assisted pressure molding that gives us autoclave quality laminates (not only on the voids ratio but also on the compression side) in our pressure molds( compression +-5 Bars) which can produce one piece parts, which is not possible by standard autoclave procedures. We are also currently testing a method for direct CNC mold cutting for parts construction …

Also, what do you hope to acheive with around beam?

 They are not only rounded in length but also elliptical in section and will be constructed VAPM… less windage, better stress distribution, less wave interference …

Thanks again for your mast section, it is coming together.

            We are glad, how are you going to construct it ? …

The boat really swings around at the moment without masts up and I wonder if it can be helped? More a question for the cruising boaters - do you plan doing cruising Elementarries?

            What do you mean with swinging around ? I suspect we will but that depends on the interest shown … for the moment we have some asks for quotes from France, Switzerland and Germany …

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Myriam & Youri

Wangka bvba

Belgium

 

e-mail. info@...

web. www.wangkaboats.eu

 

 

 

 

yaendenboom <wangka@...> wrote:

Dear people,

Our site has been updated.
We kindly invite you to have a look at:
    www.wangkaboats.eu

Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
    info@...

Thank you very much,

Myriam & Youri
Wangka bvba
Belgium

 

 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com __._,_.___ __,_._,___

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Dear people,

Our site has been updated.
We kindly invite you to have a look at:
    www.wangkaboats.eu

Suggestions and criticism is welcome at:
    info@...

Thank you very much,

Myriam & Youri
Wangka bvba
Belgium

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Harry Taylor

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 11:35 PM

Subject: [harryproa] easyrig

Rob, Would you be interested designing a easyrig for my 47' cat I am building ? Also tried to e-mail you but was returned and will proa web site be back ? Like your work. Thank You Harry

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Denney
Sent: Oct 14, 2006 5:19 AM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Single rudder system

G'day,

 

Not sure it can be done, but the rails are very prone to damage if the shunt does not go smoothly and the rudder stops between the beams.  No reason why it should, but for an offshore boat, the rails would need to be pretty heavy. 

 

The lines look good in theory, and are only loaded in tension so should be very strong and forgiving of errors.  I may need some guides to get the rudder assembly under the beams and into the brackets, but this is a small price to pay.  Will post some photos/take you for a sail when it is done.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:03 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Single rudder system

I don't see how you do it without rails.

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

First, congratulations on making it to Mandurah.  Doubly so, considering the state of the windsurfer rigs.

 

Using the tiller extension is a good way to move the rudder as long as you can pull it directly.  Towards the end it becomes a leverage job and gets difficult.  The rope is easier.  Takes a few seconds to pull a light load 2 metres.  The longest part is shunting the sail.   

 

Where do you want the pin?  Once the rudder is in place, water pressure keeps it there.  The rails are past the beams because of the support set up I had.  They and the rails are for the chop next week to be replaced with brackets directly under the beams and ropes instead of the rails.

 

regards,

 

Rob----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:10 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Single rudder system

Rob,

 

I was just looking at a pic of whatever your boat is called - I guess it is THE Elementarry - anyway how about using the pole/tiller to shift/slide the rudder up the other end? I noticed a rope and pulley -that would take a litlle bit longer would it not?

 

If the rails are slippery enough.

 

Also how about a pin with a spring that you pull out to rlease the rudder, that is using a ropeto the helm station.

 

Are these anyhing you were thinking of improving.?

 

Also noticed you extended the rails out past the beams - I was calling past your house a week ago but you were not in.

Doug

Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:

-5knot avrage with the windsurfer masts is nice cruising. Nice to
hear the the seahandling fits the theory
robert
-- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Proa People,
>   
>   Got to Mandurah, which is 50nm down the coast from Fremantle.
Nice ENE to head South with a low swell, and offshore winds was a
good run. Probably averaged above 5 knots most of the way. The
Easterly dropped away about 10am and I fell a sleep for an hour
waiting for the SWly seabreeze to come in. The breeze seemed a bit
more WSW so managed to stay on course for the Mandurah entrance which
is straight South. I got to the low wooden bridge in town and thought
about sailing under but chickened out and pullled the two winsurfer
masts out and rudder swished my way under and into Soldiers cove
withe the sails up agaain.
>   
>   No new findings - speed very promising, goes through waves
without going up and downover them, comfortable enough on the deck,
rudder very light if raked forward slighty( though this stops the
rudder from being used as ascullibng oar, it needs to be angled
backwards), sheet controls work good, shunting is fun but at the
moment takes time to put the rudder up and then the other one down
and my sails aren't getting away fast enough to give the rudder
enough effect so makinng the shunting a bit of work expect this to
improve with the masts done.
>   
>   Generally I expect the boat is more fun as you can look down at
the water under the beams and through the net, you can see all of the
rudder  going through the water, and watch the entry and exit of
especially the LW hull. Getting on from wlking out in the water is
easy and the wide beam and high buoyancy hulls make a stable platform
for sailling and staying on board.
>   
>   Doug
> 
>
>
>  Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

---

All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:03 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Single rudder system

I don't see how you do it without rails.

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@...> wrote:

G'day,

 

First, congratulations on making it to Mandurah.  Doubly so, considering the state of the windsurfer rigs.

 

Using the tiller extension is a good way to move the rudder as long as you can pull it directly.  Towards the end it becomes a leverage job and gets difficult.  The rope is easier.  Takes a few seconds to pull a light load 2 metres.  The longest part is shunting the sail.   

 

Where do you want the pin?  Once the rudder is in place, water pressure keeps it there.  The rails are past the beams because of the support set up I had.  They and the rails are for the chop next week to be replaced with brackets directly under the beams and ropes instead of the rails.

 

regards,

 

Rob----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:10 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Single rudder system

Rob,

 

I was just looking at a pic of whatever your boat is called - I guess it is THE Elementarry - anyway how about using the pole/tiller to shift/slide the rudder up the other end? I noticed a rope and pulley -that would take a litlle bit longer would it not?

 

If the rails are slippery enough.

 

Also how about a pin with a spring that you pull out to rlease the rudder, that is using a ropeto the helm station.

 

Are these anyhing you were thinking of improving.?

 

Also noticed you extended the rails out past the beams - I was calling past your house a week ago but you were not in.

Doug

Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:

-5knot avrage with the windsurfer masts is nice cruising. Nice to
hear the the seahandling fits the theory
robert
-- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Proa People,
>   
>   Got to Mandurah, which is 50nm down the coast from Fremantle.
Nice ENE to head South with a low swell, and offshore winds was a
good run. Probably averaged above 5 knots most of the way. The
Easterly dropped away about 10am and I fell a sleep for an hour
waiting for the SWly seabreeze to come in. The breeze seemed a bit
more WSW so managed to stay on course for the Mandurah entrance which
is straight South. I got to the low wooden bridge in town and thought
about sailing under but chickened out and pullled the two winsurfer
masts out and rudder swished my way under and into Soldiers cove
withe the sails up agaain.
>   
>   No new findings - speed very promising, goes through waves
without going up and downover them, comfortable enough on the deck,
rudder very light if raked forward slighty( though this stops the
rudder from being used as ascullibng oar, it needs to be angled
backwards), sheet controls work good, shunting is fun but at the
moment takes time to put the rudder up and then the other one down
and my sails aren't getting away fast enough to give the rudder
enough effect so makinng the shunting a bit of work expect this to
improve with the masts done.
>   
>   Generally I expect the boat is more fun as you can look down at
the water under the beams and through the net, you can see all of the
rudder  going through the water, and watch the entry and exit of
especially the LW hull. Getting on from wlking out in the water is
easy and the wide beam and high buoyancy hulls make a stable platform
for sailling and staying on board.
>   
>   Doug
> 
>
>
>  Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>

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G'day,

 

First, congratulations on making it to Mandurah.  Doubly so, considering the state of the windsurfer rigs.

 

Using the tiller extension is a good way to move the rudder as long as you can pull it directly.  Towards the end it becomes a leverage job and gets difficult.  The rope is easier.  Takes a few seconds to pull a light load 2 metres.  The longest part is shunting the sail.   

 

Where do you want the pin?  Once the rudder is in place, water pressure keeps it there.  The rails are past the beams because of the support set up I had.  They and the rails are for the chop next week to be replaced with brackets directly under the beams and ropes instead of the rails.

 

regards,

 

Rob----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:10 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Single rudder system

Rob,

 

I was just looking at a pic of whatever your boat is called - I guess it is THE Elementarry - anyway how about using the pole/tiller to shift/slide the rudder up the other end? I noticed a rope and pulley -that would take a litlle bit longer would it not?

 

If the rails are slippery enough.

 

Also how about a pin with a spring that you pull out to rlease the rudder, that is using a ropeto the helm station.

 

Are these anyhing you were thinking of improving.?

 

Also noticed you extended the rails out past the beams - I was calling past your house a week ago but you were not in.

Doug

Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:

-5knot avrage with the windsurfer masts is nice cruising. Nice to
hear the the seahandling fits the theory
robert
-- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Proa People,
>   
>   Got to Mandurah, which is 50nm down the coast from Fremantle.
Nice ENE to head South with a low swell, and offshore winds was a
good run. Probably averaged above 5 knots most of the way. The
Easterly dropped away about 10am and I fell a sleep for an hour
waiting for the SWly seabreeze to come in. The breeze seemed a bit
more WSW so managed to stay on course for the Mandurah entrance which
is straight South. I got to the low wooden bridge in town and thought
about sailing under but chickened out and pullled the two winsurfer
masts out and rudder swished my way under and into Soldiers cove
withe the sails up agaain.
>   
>   No new findings - speed very promising, goes through waves
without going up and downover them, comfortable enough on the deck,
rudder very light if raked forward slighty( though this stops the
rudder from being used as ascullibng oar, it needs to be angled
backwards), sheet controls work good, shunting is fun but at the
moment takes time to put the rudder up and then the other one down
and my sails aren't getting away fast enough to give the rudder
enough effect so makinng the shunting a bit of work expect this to
improve with the masts done.
>   
>   Generally I expect the boat is more fun as you can look down at
the water under the beams and through the net, you can see all of the
rudder  going through the water, and watch the entry and exit of
especially the LW hull. Getting on from wlking out in the water is
easy and the wide beam and high buoyancy hulls make a stable platform
for sailling and staying on board.
>   
>   Doug
> 
>
>
>  Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 2:10 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Single rudder system

Rob,

 

I was just looking at a pic of whatever your boat is called - I guess it is THE Elementarry - anyway how about using the pole/tiller to shift/slide the rudder up the other end? I noticed a rope and pulley -that would take a litlle bit longer would it not?

 

If the rails are slippery enough.

 

Also how about a pin with a spring that you pull out to rlease the rudder, that is using a ropeto the helm station.

 

Are these anyhing you were thinking of improving.?

 

Also noticed you extended the rails out past the beams - I was calling past your house a week ago but you were not in.

Doug

Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:

-5knot avrage with the windsurfer masts is nice cruising. Nice to
hear the the seahandling fits the theory
robert
-- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Proa People,
>   
>   Got to Mandurah, which is 50nm down the coast from Fremantle.
Nice ENE to head South with a low swell, and offshore winds was a
good run. Probably averaged above 5 knots most of the way. The
Easterly dropped away about 10am and I fell a sleep for an hour
waiting for the SWly seabreeze to come in. The breeze seemed a bit
more WSW so managed to stay on course for the Mandurah entrance which
is straight South. I got to the low wooden bridge in town and thought
about sailing under but chickened out and pullled the two winsurfer
masts out and rudder swished my way under and into Soldiers cove
withe the sails up agaain.
>   
>   No new findings - speed very promising, goes through waves
without going up and downover them, comfortable enough on the deck,
rudder very light if raked forward slighty( though this stops the
rudder from being used as ascullibng oar, it needs to be angled
backwards), sheet controls work good, shunting is fun but at the
moment takes time to put the rudder up and then the other one down
and my sails aren't getting away fast enough to give the rudder
enough effect so makinng the shunting a bit of work expect this to
improve with the masts done.
>   
>   Generally I expect the boat is more fun as you can look down at
the water under the beams and through the net, you can see all of the
rudder  going through the water, and watch the entry and exit of
especially the LW hull. Getting on from wlking out in the water is
easy and the wide beam and high buoyancy hulls make a stable platform
for sailling and staying on board.
>   
>   Doug
> 
>
>
>  Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006

-5knot avrage with the windsurfer masts is nice cruising. Nice to
hear the the seahandling fits the theory
robert
-- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Proa People,
>   
>   Got to Mandurah, which is 50nm down the coast from Fremantle.
Nice ENE to head South with a low swell, and offshore winds was a
good run. Probably averaged above 5 knots most of the way. The
Easterly dropped away about 10am and I fell a sleep for an hour
waiting for the SWly seabreeze to come in. The breeze seemed a bit
more WSW so managed to stay on course for the Mandurah entrance which
is straight South. I got to the low wooden bridge in town and thought
about sailing under but chickened out and pullled the two winsurfer
masts out and rudder swished my way under and into Soldiers cove
withe the sails up agaain.
>   
>   No new findings - speed very promising, goes through waves
without going up and downover them, comfortable enough on the deck,
rudder very light if raked forward slighty( though this stops the
rudder from being used as ascullibng oar, it needs to be angled
backwards), sheet controls work good, shunting is fun but at the
moment takes time to put the rudder up and then the other one down
and my sails aren't getting away fast enough to give the rudder
enough effect so makinng the shunting a bit of work expect this to
improve with the masts done.
>   
>   Generally I expect the boat is more fun as you can look down at
the water under the beams and through the net, you can see all of the
rudder  going through the water, and watch the entry and exit of
especially the LW hull. Getting on from wlking out in the water is
easy and the wide beam and high buoyancy hulls make a stable platform
for sailling and staying on board.
>   
>   Doug
> 
>
>
>  Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

-5knot avrage with the windsurfer masts is nice cruising. Nice to
hear the the seahandling fits the theory
robert
-- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Proa People,
>   
>   Got to Mandurah, which is 50nm down the coast from Fremantle.
Nice ENE to head South with a low swell, and offshore winds was a
good run. Probably averaged above 5 knots most of the way. The
Easterly dropped away about 10am and I fell a sleep for an hour
waiting for the SWly seabreeze to come in. The breeze seemed a bit
more WSW so managed to stay on course for the Mandurah entrance which
is straight South. I got to the low wooden bridge in town and thought
about sailing under but chickened out and pullled the two winsurfer
masts out and rudder swished my way under and into Soldiers cove
withe the sails up agaain.
>   
>   No new findings - speed very promising, goes through waves
without going up and downover them, comfortable enough on the deck,
rudder very light if raked forward slighty( though this stops the
rudder from being used as ascullibng oar, it needs to be angled
backwards), sheet controls work good, shunting is fun but at the
moment takes time to put the rudder up and then the other one down
and my sails aren't getting away fast enough to give the rudder
enough effect so makinng the shunting a bit of work expect this to
improve with the masts done.
>   
>   Generally I expect the boat is more fun as you can look down at
the water under the beams and through the net, you can see all of the
rudder  going through the water, and watch the entry and exit of
especially the LW hull. Getting on from wlking out in the water is
easy and the wide beam and high buoyancy hulls make a stable platform
for sailling and staying on board.
>   
>   Doug
> 
>
>
>  Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

-5knot avrage with the windsurfer masts is nice cruising. Nice to
hear the the seahandling fits the theory
  robert
-- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Proa People,
>
>   Got to Mandurah, which is 50nm down the coast from Fremantle.
Nice ENE to head South with a low swell, and offshore winds was a
good run. Probably averaged above 5 knots most of the way. The
Easterly dropped away about 10am and I fell a sleep for an hour
waiting for the SWly seabreeze to come in. The breeze seemed a bit
more WSW so managed to stay on course for the Mandurah entrance which
is straight South. I got to the low wooden bridge in town and thought
about sailing under but chickened out and pullled the two winsurfer
masts out and rudder swished my way under and into Soldiers cove
withe the sails up agaain.
>
>   No new findings - speed very promising, goes through waves
without going up and downover them, comfortable enough on the deck,
rudder very light if raked forward slighty( though this stops the
rudder from being used as ascullibng oar, it needs to be angled
backwards), sheet controls work good, shunting is fun but at the
moment takes time to put the rudder up and then the other one down
and my sails aren't getting away fast enough to give the rudder
enough effect so makinng the shunting a bit of work expect this to
improve with the masts done.
>
>   Generally I expect the boat is more fun as you can look down at
the water under the beams and through the net, you can see all of the
rudder  going through the water, and watch the entry and exit of
especially the LW hull. Getting on from wlking out in the water is
easy and the wide beam and high buoyancy hulls make a stable platform
for sailling and staying on board.
>
>   Doug
>
>
>
>  Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Congratulations Doug,
Wait to see the cruising photos.--- In harryproa@...,
Doug Haines <doha720@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Nicolas,
>   
>   My name is Doug and maybe you can ask any questions about how
long, how hard , how expensive to build the Elementarry. I have
sailed it down the coast some way and have to recommend the
suitableness of this boat for cruising.
>   I still have to make the proper masts and try to send some photos
later.
>   
>   Doug
>   Mandurah W.A.
>
> Nicolas Vivier <nvivier@i...> wrote:
>   Le Mercredi 20 Septembre 2006 04:18, Rob Denney a ιcrit :
> > The plans are ready, there is an amateur built one being launched
this
> > week.
>
> Was it launched finally ? I can't wait for photos !..
> --
> Nicolas Vivier
> Icarai
> tel : 02 33 41 38 91
> http://www.icarai.fr
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>             
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