Hi Doug,

It bundles up in a civilised fashion the luff just concertinas - with
reef points you can make it all neat and tidy, but the only critical
attachment is at the clew, where we use a light line to haul it all
together for the mainsheet changeover.  There's a second 'snap
shackle' on the mainsheet for that purpose.  We make those out of rope
and save £32 a time.....

Photo of a reefed Wharram schooner here:-

http://www.wharram.eu/photos/index.cgi?mode=image&album=/Tiki-range/Tiki-38&imag\
e=040605%20018.jpg

Packing the sail into its cover can be fun if you are single handed,
but I can do it OK.  Just wrap the sail around the gaff as
best you can, apply the gaskets or bunjees, and heave the cover on,
being careful not to make the sail too lumpy to fit.

This looks a very neat setup:-
http://www.wharram.eu/photos/index.cgi?mode=image&album=/Tiki-range/Tiki-30&imag\
e=DSC02289.JPG

But I suspect his sail material is half the weight of ours, and a lot
more malleable.   Heavy duty HydraNet is a beast to furl, but we went
for its toughness and total lack of stretch.  This means that we do
not worry about stretching the sails out of shape due to reefing, and
they didn't - even in a Biscay gale.  Boilerplate sails.

Only bagging the sail single handed is any sort of tussle, anyway.
That's partly because the bag has to be tight to avoid flutter.  Our
sail has lived in its bag since .... ummm .... 1999 I think.  Just
hose it down and do some sewing on the odd seam once or twice a year.

Here's another neat one, without a sail cover:-
http://www.wharram.eu/photos/index.cgi?mode=image&album=/Tiki-range/Tiki-21&imag\
e=Tiki-21-Greece-1.JPG


Gives you a chance to see how it's been furled.  They are no hassle,
in our experience.

A bit off topic, one of Steve Turner's clients wanted a Tiki without
the 'old fashioned' rig, and had Steve build him one of his GRP boats
with a full-on 25% oversize battened bermudan rig, no expense spared,
so Steve and the gang then had a chance to sail it against a standard
production boat.

Interestingly the standard boat had the advantage everywhere, except
downwind - 25% more sail area made a difference there. So one might be
tempted to assume that the Wharram Tiki Wingsail had around 25% more
drive to windward/on a reach than the fully battened bermudan...?

Reason that I mention this is that I found a photo of what may be that
boat when I was looking for furled/reefed sails....

http://www.wharram.eu/photos/index.cgi?mode=image&album=/Tiki-range/Tiki-21&imag\
e=Tiki%2021%20Multiscavi%202.JPG
Might be a different boat, who knows.  Not an improvement in our
experience.

All the best, Ben

--- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> HI,
>
> How does the sail fold up at the sleeve when you reef or take the
sail down?
>
> Doug
>

Greetings,

This is a hopefully useful contribution to the debate on
sail formats for the HarryProa.

We have sailed a Wharram Tiki 30 since the '90s, and 'Pilgrim'
has provided us with a source of much glee in nailing much
larger and supposedly faster vessels on most points of sail.

The numbers we can demonstrably repeat (especially since our
recent coat of bottom paint) caused some surprise when I posted
them last time - apologies for my lack of tact. All boats are
an improvement over no boat, and it is not my place to denigrate
anybody's design, multihull or monohull.

Pilgrim is a small catamaran, and cannot comfortably sustain high
speed in rough water - ask my wife! Well, Olly isn't comfortable,
anyway. We will need something more comfy and spacious for our
declining years, but I am most reluctant to give up on the
giant-killing fun we enjoy. Eaten any Oysters lately? #;^p

That's why we're here.

We did check our numbers and have also discovered (see PS) that we
can point and foot well under main alone. So my focus is now on this
type of mainsail, and its possible application to an EasyRig.

The Wharram Tiki Wingsail is a cunning combination of a wrap-around
sleeve luff and a short gaff. Usually loose-footed due to the huge
sheeting angle available on a cat, the rig is simple to use. It will
reef going downwind (a major safety factor) because of the loose
sleeve luff and the weight of the gaff bringing the top down; plus it
is safe to gybe all-standing due to the lack of a boom.

The gaff keeps the sail area useful to the top of the rig, since
bermudan triangles lose performance rapidly as the sail chord shrinks
with respect to the mast. A square-top variant is easy to make;
the gaff then becomes (in effect) a batten, but cheaper than most
modern battens-with-cars.

Aerodynamics - this has been an interest of mine since boyhood, and
as a student I recall our aerodynamics instructor at the CAAE telling
us that even a small wrinkle or rivet can perturb the flow.

His favourite example was a wire and a foil, which I have uploaded to
the photos folder 'Aerodynamics and Sails' .....
http://au.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/photos/browse/1641

This illustration is meant to focus on the importance of very small
things in the overall drag picture - a sailing boat, for example.

Depending on the Reynolds Number....
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_Number)
(http://www.princeton.edu/~asmits/Bicycle_web/blunt.html)
....the foil could be of the order of 10x the thickness of the
wire for the same drag. This can double at very low Reynolds Nos
(Re) to around 20x - and sails run at low Re.

Which suggests that a 5% imperfection might _double_ the drag in the
worst case. It can, too. Some shapes are worse than a round wire.

This puts exposed masts in a poor light unless they rotate
very precisely. Shrouds don't look good, either. They are in
the low Re zone for sure.

Sailmakers do have techniques for picking up some cleaner flow to
leeward of masts by putting a baggy step in the leading edge of sails,
but it is still a disaster in terms of aircraft quality fluid dynamics.

There is a _lot_ of improvement to be had over a bermudan rig.

The Wharram approach uses a deep sleeve luff, so that the mast
'disappears' aerodynamically inside the sail, like the spar on an
aircraft wing. The cut is all-important, since smaller imperfections
start to matter more once the main sources of drag are addressed.
Chris Jeckells made my sails, bless him.

The thickness of the mast ceases to be of great aerodynamic importance
when the sail is hoisted, so it can be properly plump and stiff. Not
too plump, since we do not want excessive drag when reefed or in high
wind with the rig down. Fortunately the stiffness of a beam or pole
increases rapidly with diameter. Flexibility to shed wind load in a
gust could be added in the gaff - like a windsurfer's flexing batten.

Two Tiki Wingsails are shown in the photo folder, one seen from
another boat, and one shot from on board. These are not Pilgrim,
and the sails do not seem to be setting as well as ours. A lot
of people are relaxed about sails, and as I have admitted to Rob, I'm
a pestilentially picky perfectionist when it comes to sail shape.

Wrinkles may be common - but I prefer them on other people's sails,
not mine! Remember the wire and the foil. A 5% wrinkle
might double the drag - so how about lots of small wrinkles?

The two photos are there to show the Wharram wingsail - more at:-
http://www.wharram.eu/photos/index.cgi?mode=album&album=Tiki-range/Tiki-30

So what do you folks think, is there a case for using a Wharram
sleeve luff/gaff combination on a HarryProa EasyRig?

All the best, Ben

PS
About that run up the coast of Lanzarote in January under main
alone - lazy skipper, should have reefed both main and genoa.
But we learned something interesting....

The tack was 88 degrees on the GPS (and compass - near as
one can tell on a compass) and we started footing upwind at
nearly 9 GPS knots. Tricky to get a main flying spot on without
any genoa telltales, but eventually we had 9 knots -roughly-
showing on the GPS. Pretty good, I thought vaguely. It was
a pleasant surprise to point so well under main alone, which
is not usually our custom.

Sea was bumpy, hence the reduced rig.

Afterwards I had a look at the GPS points I'd put in and
from the times did a speed over ground by hand, which was
8.8 knots, and 8.8/16 is 55% of max wind speed measured
1/3 the way up the mast. 8.8/14 is 63%, so we were going
pretty well even without a genoa.

Greetings,

This is a hopefully useful contribution to the debate on
sail formats for the HarryProa.

We have sailed a Wharram Tiki 30 since the '90s, and 'Pilgrim'
has provided us with a source of much glee in nailing much
larger and supposedly faster vessels on most points of sail.

The numbers we can demonstrably repeat (especially since our
recent coat of bottom paint) caused some surprise when I posted
them last time - apologies for my lack of tact.   All boats are
an improvement over no boat, and it is not my place to denigrate
anybody's design, multihull or monohull.

Pilgrim is a small catamaran, and cannot comfortably sustain high
speed in rough water - ask my wife!   Well, Olly isn't comfortable,
anyway.  We will need something more comfy and spacious for our
declining years,   but I am most reluctant to give up on the
giant-killing fun we enjoy.  Eaten any Oysters lately? #;^p

That's why we're here.

We did check our numbers and have also discovered (see PS) that we
can point and foot well under main alone. So my focus is now on this
type of mainsail, and its possible application to an EasyRig.

The Wharram Tiki Wingsail is a cunning combination of a wrap-around
sleeve luff and a short gaff. Usually loose-footed due to the huge
sheeting angle available on a cat, the rig is simple to use. It will
reef going downwind (a major safety factor) because of the loose
sleeve luff and the weight of the gaff bringing the top down; plus it
is safe to gybe all-standing due to the lack of a boom.

The gaff keeps the sail area useful to the top of the rig, since
bermudan triangles lose performance rapidly as the sail chord shrinks
with respect to the mast.  A square-top variant is easy to make;
the gaff then becomes (in effect) a batten, but cheaper than most
modern battens-with-cars.

Aerodynamics - this has been an interest of mine since boyhood, and
as a student I recall our aerodynamics instructor at the CAAE telling
us that even a small wrinkle or rivet can perturb the flow.

His favourite example was a wire and a foil, which I have uploaded to
the photos folder 'Aerodynamics and Sails' .....
http://au.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/photos/browse/1641

This illustration is meant to focus on the importance of very small
things in the overall drag picture -  a sailing boat, for example.

Depending on the Reynolds Number....
          (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_Number)
          (http://www.princeton.edu/~asmits/Bicycle_web/blunt.html)
....the foil could be of the order of 10x the thickness of the
wire for the same drag.  This can double at very low Reynolds Nos
(Re) to around 20x - and sails run at low Re.

Which suggests that a 5% imperfection might _double_ the drag in the
worst case.  It can, too.  Some shapes are worse than a round wire.

This puts exposed masts in a poor light unless they rotate
very precisely. Shrouds don't look good, either. They are in
the low Re zone for sure.

Sailmakers do have techniques for picking up some cleaner flow to
leeward of masts by putting a baggy step in the leading edge of sails,
but it is still a disaster in terms of aircraft quality fluid dynamics.

There is a _lot_ of improvement to be had over a  bermudan rig.

The Wharram approach uses a deep sleeve luff, so that the mast
'disappears' aerodynamically inside the sail, like the spar on an
aircraft wing.  The cut is all-important, since smaller imperfections
start to matter more once the main sources of drag are addressed.
Chris Jeckells made my sails, bless him.

The thickness of the mast ceases to be of great aerodynamic importance
when the sail is hoisted, so it can be properly plump and stiff.  Not
too plump, since we do not want excessive drag when reefed or in high
wind with the rig down.  Fortunately the stiffness of a beam or pole
increases rapidly with diameter.  Flexibility to shed wind load in a
gust could be added in the gaff - like a windsurfer's flexing batten.

Two Tiki Wingsails are shown in the photo folder, one seen from
another boat, and one shot from on board.  These are not Pilgrim,
and the sails do not seem to be setting as well as ours.  A lot
of people are relaxed about sails, and as I have admitted to Rob, I'm
a pestilentially picky perfectionist when it comes to sail shape.

Wrinkles may be common - but I prefer them on other people's sails,
not mine!  Remember the wire and the foil.   A 5% wrinkle
might double the drag - so how about lots of small wrinkles?

The two photos are there to show the Wharram wingsail - more at:-
http://www.wharram.eu/photos/index.cgi?mode=album&album=Tiki-range/Tiki-30

So what do you folks think, is there a case for using a Wharram
sleeve luff/gaff combination on a HarryProa EasyRig?

All the best, Ben

PS
About that run up the coast of Lanzarote in January under main
alone - lazy skipper, should have reefed both main and genoa.
But we learned something interesting....

The tack was 88 degrees on the GPS (and compass - near as
one can tell on a compass) and we started footing upwind at
nearly 9 GPS knots. Tricky to get a main flying spot on without
any genoa telltales,  but eventually we had 9 knots  -roughly-
showing on the GPS.  Pretty good, I thought vaguely. It was
a pleasant surprise to point so well under main alone, which
is not usually our custom.

Sea was bumpy, hence the reduced rig.

Afterwards I had a look at the GPS points I'd put in and
from the times did a speed over ground by hand, which was
8.8 knots, and 8.8/16 is 55% of max wind speed measured
1/3 the way up the mast.  8.8/14 is 63%, so we were going
pretty well even without a genoa.

Una rig is a single bermudan sail on a single mast.  No idea where the word comes from.  The ballestron is a sloop rig (main and jib) modifies so that the jib tack and clew sit on an extension of the main boom forward of the mast. 

 

Ballestron is the french word for boom, no idea where the word sloop comes from.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:38 PM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Una rig is an easy rig.

mark@harryproa.com wrote:

Sorry. We don't have a larger boat with a una-rig as yet. When we do it will most likely have a wishbone boom.

 

Mark

 

 

...................................

Mark tephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Doug Haines
Sent: Tuesday, 13 February 2007 10:09 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Una-rig!

mark@harryproa.com wrote:

We don't have a larger boat with a unirig as yet. When we do it will most likely have a wishbone boom.

 

Mark

 

...................................

Mark Stephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.cm.au] On Behalf Of doha720
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:24 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Mast rotation

 

 Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob Denney

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 4:11 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Una rig is a single bermudan sail on a single mast.  No idea where the word comes from.  The ballestron is a sloop rig (main and jib) modifies so that the jib tack and clew sit on an extension of the main boom forward of the mast. 

 

Ballestron is the french word for boom, no idea where the word sloop comes from.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:38 PM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Una rig is an easy rig.

mark@harryproa.com wrote:

Sorry. We don't have a larger boat with a una-rig as yet. When we do it will most likely have a wishbone boom.

 

Mark

 

 

...................................

Mark tephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Doug Haines
Sent: Tuesday, 13 February 2007 10:09 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Una-rig!

mark@harryproa.com wrote:

We don't have a larger boat with a unirig as yet. When we do it will most likely have a wishbone boom.

 

Mark

 

...................................

Mark Stephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.cm.au] On Behalf Of doha720
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:24 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Mast rotation

 

 Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 2007/02/06 05:52 PM

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:38 PM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Una rig is an easy rig.

mark@harryproa.com wrote:

Sorry. We don't have a larger boat with a una-rig as yet. When we do it will most likely have a wishbone boom.

 

Mark

 

 

...................................

Mark tephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Doug Haines
Sent: Tuesday, 13 February 2007 10:09 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Una-rig!

mark@harryproa.com wrote:

We don't have a larger boat with a unirig as yet. When we do it will most likely have a wishbone boom.

 

Mark

 

...................................

Mark Stephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.cm.au] On Behalf Of doha720
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:24 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Mast rotation

 

 Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

Sorry. We don't have a larger boat with a una-rig as yet. When we do it will most likely have a wishbone boom.

 

Mark

 

 

...................................

Mark Stephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Doug Haines
Sent: Tuesday, 13 February 2007 10:09 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Una-rig!

mark@harryproa.com wrote:

We don't have a larger boat with a unirig as yet. When we do it will most likely have a wishbone boom.

 

Mark

 

...................................

Mark Stephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of doha720
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:24 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Mast rotation

 

 Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:07 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Round mast?

How come?

Rob Denney <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

 

The ballestron rigs have a round mast and a fixed boom.  One of my earlier ones had a wing mast (the one currently lying beside the house) with the boom rotating independantly.  It worked well.  Rotating the round masts may also improve performance, but makes it a lot more complex, both to build and to operate.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: doha720

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:23 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of Doug Haines
Sent: Tuesday, 13 February 2007 10:09 PM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Una-rig!

mark@harryproa.com wrote:

We don't have a larger boat with a unirig as yet. When we do it will most likely have a wishbone boom.

 

Mark

 

...................................

Mark Stephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of doha720
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:24 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Mast rotation

 

 Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

We don't have a larger boat with a unirig as yet. When we do it will most likely have a wishbone boom.

 

Mark

 

...................................

Mark Stephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of doha720
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:24 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Mast rotation

 

 Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

G'day,

 

The ballestron rigs have a round mast and a fixed boom.  One of my earlier ones had a wing mast (the one currently lying beside the house) with the boom rotating independantly.  It worked well.  Rotating the round masts may also improve performance, but makes it a lot more complex, both to build and to operate.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: doha720

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:23 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

----- Original Message -----

From: doha720

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:23 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Mast rotation

Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of doha720
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:24 PM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: [harryproa] Mast rotation

 

 Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

Hi Rob and all,

Looking at HP site:
Does the larger boats unarig boom rotate about the mast?

Doug

Excellent news.  It will be good to have both boats in the same area.  Rudder tracks are ok.  Few strings to add, may get out for a sail on Thursday.

 

regards,

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 1:12 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi Rob,

There is a place down in Bibra Lake that makes Schionnings, They have asked me to start work on Monday. Hopefully that will go all right for a while.

Will move over to Freo area soon, and try to moor SideCar in the river.

Let me know if you go out again, and how was the rudder tracks?

Doug


Rob Denney <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

 

A bit of drag on the wing is a good thing as it should have less angle than the boom.  If the bearings are smooth, it is probably a balance issue, which can be corrected by tying a control  line between the boom and the trailing edge of the mast.

 

We use plastic (UHMPWE, not pvc) for the bigger boats, but for the huge boats, a spherical roller bearing is required.

 

I will add some Polycore and carbon to my next orders, not sure when they will be.  Let me know when it becomes urgent.  I will do the laminate and instructions for the wing mast when you need them.  Have some ideas to try

 

Taking El down the river this afternoon to check out the rudder track.  May be sailing next weekend.  Are you still in Mandurah?  Would be good to trail it down and sail them together.,

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:53 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

OK.

 

Do you get your wing mast sticking a bit?

Perhaps my bearings are too rough as the boom comes round when you pull the sheets in, but the wind directly and the sails don't make the wing swing arounsd quite enough sometimes. Perhaps got too much friction in the mast in the tubes.

By the way is there a specially made ball bearing race or something in the bigger boats or are they similar with just a pvc pipe?

 

I wonder if you could get me some poly core, enough for a new pair of wing masts and quite a large size shelf box for under the deck leading intio the cabin - so about2-3 sheets something like that.  I guess the thinnest for mast, maybe 4mm or 6mm if available. No rush, just want to start thinking on doing some more. Will need carbon too, and as a possible stock item in the design an accurate layup specific plan details would be reasonable to ask.

 

How is elementarry (mini transpac) coming?

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

 

Thanks for that Mike. 

 

An excellent read Doug, thanks.  It will be in the next web page update.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Crawford

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:49 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

  Rob (and others): If you save the file to your hard drive, and then rename it to end in .doc, it will open in MS Word or compatible word processors.

  Doug:  Thanks for posting such a complete description.  It's great to read about the details from a standpoint of someone who doesn't do the strip-plank construction on a regular basis.

       - Mike


Rob Denney wrote:

G'day,

 

I can't open that, can you send it as a jpg or a wor document, please.  Ta.  My private email is proa@....au  

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:14 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi,

 

I think this is Rob's private email address. Or Mark's. Anyhow here is some buiding guidance that Rob was wanting, giving some time estimates and stages for amatuers. I Couldn't help from trying to advise about potential problems and better ways to do things.

Feel free to edit or use any info, or make it available as is on the web site.

 

Doug

proaharry <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

You don't much about, do you! Well done, hope the sailing is a success.

regards,

Rob--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "doha720" <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Masts in Elementarry camper now. Looks really good.
> Trying sailing soon.
>
> Doug
>

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 1:12 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi Rob,

There is a place down in Bibra Lake that makes Schionnings, They have asked me to start work on Monday. Hopefully that will go all right for a while.

Will move over to Freo area soon, and try to moor SideCar in the river.

Let me know if you go out again, and how was the rudder tracks?

Doug


Rob Denney <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

 

A bit of drag on the wing is a good thing as it should have less angle than the boom.  If the bearings are smooth, it is probably a balance issue, which can be corrected by tying a control  line between the boom and the trailing edge of the mast.

 

We use plastic (UHMPWE, not pvc) for the bigger boats, but for the huge boats, a spherical roller bearing is required.

 

I will add some Polycore and carbon to my next orders, not sure when they will be.  Let me know when it becomes urgent.  I will do the laminate and instructions for the wing mast when you need them.  Have some ideas to try

 

Taking El down the river this afternoon to check out the rudder track.  May be sailing next weekend.  Are you still in Mandurah?  Would be good to trail it down and sail them together.,

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:53 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

OK.

 

Do you get your wing mast sticking a bit?

Perhaps my bearings are too rough as the boom comes round when you pull the sheets in, but the wind directly and the sails don't make the wing swing arounsd quite enough sometimes. Perhaps got too much friction in the mast in the tubes.

By the way is there a specially made ball bearing race or something in the bigger boats or are they similar with just a pvc pipe?

 

I wonder if you could get me some poly core, enough for a new pair of wing masts and quite a large size shelf box for under the deck leading intio the cabin - so about2-3 sheets something like that.  I guess the thinnest for mast, maybe 4mm or 6mm if available. No rush, just want to start thinking on doing some more. Will need carbon too, and as a possible stock item in the design an accurate layup specific plan details would be reasonable to ask.

 

How is elementarry (mini transpac) coming?

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

 

Thanks for that Mike. 

 

An excellent read Doug, thanks.  It will be in the next web page update.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Crawford

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:49 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

  Rob (and others): If you save the file to your hard drive, and then rename it to end in .doc, it will open in MS Word or compatible word processors.

  Doug:  Thanks for posting such a complete description.  It's great to read about the details from a standpoint of someone who doesn't do the strip-plank construction on a regular basis.

       - Mike


Rob Denney wrote:

G'day,

 

I can't open that, can you send it as a jpg or a wor document, please.  Ta.  My private email is proa@....au  

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:14 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi,

 

I think this is Rob's private email address. Or Mark's. Anyhow here is some buiding guidance that Rob was wanting, giving some time estimates and stages for amatuers. I Couldn't help from trying to advise about potential problems and better ways to do things.

Feel free to edit or use any info, or make it available as is on the web site.

 

Doug

proaharry <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

You don't much about, do you! Well done, hope the sailing is a success.

regards,

Rob--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "doha720" <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Masts in Elementarry camper now. Looks really good.
> Trying sailing soon.
>
> Doug
>

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

G'day,

 

A bit of drag on the wing is a good thing as it should have less angle than the boom.  If the bearings are smooth, it is probably a balance issue, which can be corrected by tying a control  line between the boom and the trailing edge of the mast.

 

We use plastic (UHMPWE, not pvc) for the bigger boats, but for the huge boats, a spherical roller bearing is required.

 

I will add some Polycore and carbon to my next orders, not sure when they will be.  Let me know when it becomes urgent.  I will do the laminate and instructions for the wing mast when you need them.  Have some ideas to try

 

Taking El down the river this afternoon to check out the rudder track.  May be sailing next weekend.  Are you still in Mandurah?  Would be good to trail it down and sail them together.,

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:53 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

OK.

 

Do you get your wing mast sticking a bit?

Perhaps my bearings are too rough as the boom comes round when you pull the sheets in, but the wind directly and the sails don't make the wing swing arounsd quite enough sometimes. Perhaps got too much friction in the mast in the tubes.

By the way is there a specially made ball bearing race or something in the bigger boats or are they similar with just a pvc pipe?

 

I wonder if you could get me some poly core, enough for a new pair of wing masts and quite a large size shelf box for under the deck leading intio the cabin - so about2-3 sheets something like that.  I guess the thinnest for mast, maybe 4mm or 6mm if available. No rush, just want to start thinking on doing some more. Will need carbon too, and as a possible stock item in the design an accurate layup specific plan details would be reasonable to ask.

 

How is elementarry (mini transpac) coming?

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

 

Thanks for that Mike. 

 

An excellent read Doug, thanks.  It will be in the next web page update.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Crawford

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:49 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

  Rob (and others): If you save the file to your hard drive, and then rename it to end in .doc, it will open in MS Word or compatible word processors.

  Doug:  Thanks for posting such a complete description.  It's great to read about the details from a standpoint of someone who doesn't do the strip-plank construction on a regular basis.

       - Mike


Rob Denney wrote:

G'day,

 

I can't open that, can you send it as a jpg or a word document, please.  Ta.  My private email is proa@....au  

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:14 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi,

 

I think this is Rob's private email address. Or Mark's. Anyhow here is some buiding guidance that Rob was wanting, giving some time estimates and stages for amatuers. I Couldn't help from trying to advise about potential problems and better ways to do things.

Feel free to edit or use any info, or make it available as is on the web site.

 

Doug

proaharry <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

You don't much about, do you! Well done, hope the sailing is a success.

regards,

Rob--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "doha720" <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Masts in Elementarry camper now. Looks really good.
> Trying sailing soon.
>
> Doug
>

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:53 PM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

OK.

 

Do you get your wing mast sticking a bit?

Perhaps my bearings are too rough as the boom comes round when you pull the sheets in, but the wind directly and the sails don't make the wing swing arounsd quite enough sometimes. Perhaps got too much friction in the mast in the tubes.

By the way is there a specially made ball bearing race or something in the bigger boats or are they similar with just a pvc pipe?

 

I wonder if you could get me some poly core, enough for a new pair of wing masts and quite a large size shelf box for under the deck leading intio the cabin - so about2-3 sheets something like that.  I guess the thinnest for mast, maybe 4mm or 6mm if available. No rush, just want to start thinking on doing some more. Will need carbon too, and as a possible stock item in the design an accurate layup specific plan details would be reasonable to ask.

 

How is elementarry (mini transpac) coming?

 

Doug

Rob Denney <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

 

Thanks for that Mike. 

 

An excellent read Doug, thanks.  It will be in the next web page update.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Crawford

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:49 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

  Rob (and others): If you save the file to your hard drive, and then rename it to end in .doc, it will open in MS Word or compatible word processors.

  Doug:  Thanks for posting such a complete description.  It's great to read about the details from a standpoint of someone who doesn't do the strip-plank construction on a regular basis.

       - Mike


Rob Denney wrote:

G'day,

 

I can't open that, can you send it as a jpg or a word document, please.  Ta.  My private email is proa@....au  

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:14 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi,

 

I think this is Rob's private email address. Or Mark's. Anyhow here is some buiding guidance that Rob was wanting, giving some time estimates and stages for amatuers. I Couldn't help from trying to advise about potential problems and better ways to do things.

Feel free to edit or use any info, or make it available as is on the web site.

 

Doug

proaharry <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

You don't much about, do you! Well done, hope the sailing is a success.

regards,

Rob--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "doha720" <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Masts in Elementarry camper now. Looks really good.
> Trying sailing soon.
>
> Doug
>

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

G'day,

 

Thanks for that Mike. 

 

An excellent read Doug, thanks.  It will be in the next web page update.

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Crawford

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:49 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

  Rob (and others): If you save the file to your hard drive, and then rename it to end in .doc, it will open in MS Word or compatible word processors.

  Doug:  Thanks for posting such a complete description.  It's great to read about the details from a standpoint of someone who doesn't do the strip-plank construction on a regular basis.

       - Mike


Rob Denney wrote:

G'day,

 

I can't open that, can you send it as a jpg or a word document, please.  Ta.  My private email is proa@....au  

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:14 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi,

 

I think this is Rob's private email address. Or Mark's. Anyhow here is some buiding guidance that Rob was wanting, giving some time estimates and stages for amatuers. I Couldn't help from trying to advise about potential problems and better ways to do things.

Feel free to edit or use any info, or make it available as is on the web site.

 

Doug

proaharry <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

You don't much about, do you! Well done, hope the sailing is a success.

regards,

Rob--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "doha720" <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Masts in Elementarry camper now. Looks really good.
> Trying sailing soon.
>
> Doug
>

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Crawford

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:49 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

  Rob (and others): If you save the file to your hard drive, and then rename it to end in .doc, it will open in MS Word or compatible word processors.

  Doug:  Thanks for posting such a complete description.  It's great to read about the details from a standpoint of someone who doesn't do the strip-plank construction on a regular basis.

       - Mike


Rob Denney wrote:

G'day,

 

I can't open that, can you send it as a jpg or a word document, please.  Ta.  My private email is proa@....au  

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:14 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi,

 

I think this is Rob's private email address. Or Mark's. Anyhow here is some buiding guidance that Rob was wanting, giving some time estimates and stages for amatuers. I Couldn't help from trying to advise about potential problems and better ways to do things.

Feel free to edit or use any info, or make it available as is on the web site.

 

Doug

proaharry <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

You don't much about, do you! Well done, hope the sailing is a success.

regards,

Rob--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "doha720" <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Masts in Elementarry camper now. Looks really good.
> Trying sailing soon.
>
> Doug
>

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

  Rob (and others): If you save the file to your hard drive, and then rename it to end in .doc, it will open in MS Word or compatible word processors.

  Doug:  Thanks for posting such a complete description.  It's great to read about the details from a standpoint of someone who doesn't do the strip-plank construction on a regular basis.

       - Mike


Rob Denney wrote:

G'day,

 

I can't open that, can you send it as a jpg or a word document, please.  Ta.  My private email is proa@....au  

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:14 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi,

 

I think this is Rob's private email address. Or Mark's. Anyhow here is some buiding guidance that Rob was wanting, giving some time estimates and stages for amatuers. I Couldn't help from trying to advise about potential problems and better ways to do things.

Feel free to edit or use any info, or make it available as is on the web site.

 

Doug

proaharry <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

You don't much about, do you! Well done, hope the sailing is a success.

regards,

Rob--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "doha720" <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Masts in Elementarry camper now. Looks really good.
> Trying sailing soon.
>
> Doug
>

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of David Howie
Sent: Tuesday, 6 February 2007 7:01 AM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Fair enough, was just mindsurfing anyway, If you did the duflex kit thing how
far away is it?

------ Original Message ------
Received: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 08:26:36 PM MST
From: <mark@harryproa.com>
To: <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au>
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

I read a letter in the latest Aust multi mag referring to the article you
mention. I haven't got the original but what I did read it sounds to me you
need a lot of experience with the method to design well for it. I've always
found torturing plywood to be bit of a hit and miss affair. If the
humidity/ply thickness/grain orientation/wood type etc aren't exactly
correct then it will either break or not torture. Malcolm Tennant did a lot
of this many years ago so is able to design for it. I don't have that
experience so wouldn't feel good about advising builders to use it.

Mark


..................................
Mark Stephens
www.harryproa.com <http://www.harryproa.com/>

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On
Behalf Of David Howie
Sent: Saturday, 3 February 2007 10:23 AM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Really good explanation in a recent Aus multi mag by Malcolm Tennant

------ Original Message ------
Received: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 10:48:56 PM MST
From: <mark@harryproa. <mailto:mark%40harryproa.com> com>
To: <harryproa@yahoogrou <mailto:harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au> ps.com.au>
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Not sure how you torture ply something that big. Please explain.

Mark

.................................
Mark Stephens
www.harryproa.com <http://www.harrypro <http://www.harryproa.com/> a.com/>

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogrou <mailto:harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au> ps.com.au
[mailto:harryproa@yahoogrou <mailto:harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>
ps.com.au] On
Behalf Of oceanplodder2003
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2007 4:36 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogrou <mailto:harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au> ps.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Just thinking idly about strip planking vs the kitset idea, what about
a tortured ply harry? feasible or not?

Fair enough, was just mindsurfing anyway, If you did the duflex kit thing how
far away is it?

------ Original Message ------
Received: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 08:26:36 PM MST
From: <mark@...>
To: <harryproa@...>
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

I read a letter in the latest Aust multi mag referring to the article you
mention. I haven't got the original but what I did read it sounds to me you
need a lot of experience with the method to design well for it. I've always
found torturing plywood to be bit of a hit and miss affair. If the
humidity/ply thickness/grain orientation/wood type etc aren't exactly
correct then it will either break or not torture. Malcolm Tennant did a lot
of this many years ago so is able to design for it. I don't have that
experience so wouldn't feel good about advising builders to use it.

Mark


..................................
Mark Stephens
www.harryproa.com <http://www.harryproa.com/>

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On
Behalf Of David Howie
Sent: Saturday, 3 February 2007 10:23 AM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: strip planking



Really good explanation in a recent Aus multi mag by Malcolm Tennant

------ Original Message ------
Received: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 10:48:56 PM MST
From: <mark@harryproa. <mailto:mark%40harryproa.com> com>
To: <harryproa@yahoogrou <mailto:harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au> ps.com.au>
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Not sure how you torture ply something that big. Please explain.

Mark


.................................
Mark Stephens
www.harryproa.com <http://www.harrypro <http://www.harryproa.com/> a.com/>

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogrou <mailto:harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au> ps.com.au
[mailto:harryproa@yahoogrou <mailto:harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>
ps.com.au] On
Behalf Of oceanplodder2003
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2007 4:36 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogrou <mailto:harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au> ps.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Just thinking idly about strip planking vs the kitset idea, what about
a tortured ply harry? feasible or not?

G'day,

 

I can't open that, can you send it as a jpg or a word document, please.  Ta.  My private email is proa@....au  

 

regards,

 

Rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:14 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi,

 

I think this is Rob's private email address. Or Mark's. Anyhow here is some buiding guidance that Rob was wanting, giving some time estimates and stages for amatuers. I Couldn't help from trying to advise about potential problems and better ways to do things.

Feel free to edit or use any info, or make it available as is on the web site.

 

Doug

proaharry <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

You don't much about, do you! Well done, hope the sailing is a success.

regards,

Rob--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "doha720" <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Masts in Elementarry camper now. Looks really good.
> Trying sailing soon.
>
> Doug
>

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

----- Original Message -----

From: Doug Haines

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:14 AM

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Masts in "Side Car"

Hi,

 

I think this is Rob's private email address. Or Mark's. Anyhow here is some buiding guidance that Rob was wanting, giving some time estimates and stages for amatuers. I Couldn't help from trying to advise about potential problems and better ways to do things.

Feel free to edit or use any info, or make it available as is on the web site.

 

Doug

proaharry <proa@....au> wrote:

G'day,

You don't much about, do you! Well done, hope the sailing is a success.

regards,

Rob--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "doha720" <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Masts in Elementarry camper now. Looks really good.
> Trying sailing soon.
>
> Doug
>

---

New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/654 - Release Date: 1/27/2007

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of David Howie
Sent: Saturday, 3 February 2007 10:23 AM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Really good explanation in a recent Aus multi mag by Malcolm Tennant

------ Original Message ------
Received: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 10:48:56 PM MST
From: <mark@harryproa.com>
To: <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au>
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Not sure how you torture ply something that big. Please explain.

Mark


..................................
Mark Stephens
www.harryproa.com <http://www.harryproa.com/>

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On
Behalf Of oceanplodder2003
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2007 4:36 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Just thinking idly about strip planking vs the kitset idea, what about
a tortured ply harry? feasible or not?

G'day,

You don't much about, do you! Well done, hope the sailing is a success.

regards,

Rob--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "doha720" <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> Masts in Elementarry camper now. Looks really good.
> Trying sailing soon.
>
> Doug
>

Really good explanation in a recent Aus multi mag by Malcolm Tennant

------ Original Message ------
Received: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 10:48:56 PM MST
From: <mark@...>
To: <harryproa@...>
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Not sure how you torture ply something that big. Please explain.

Mark


..................................
Mark Stephens
www.harryproa.com <http://www.harryproa.com/>

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On
Behalf Of oceanplodder2003
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2007 4:36 PM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: [harryproa] Re: strip planking



Just thinking idly about strip planking vs the kitset idea, what about
a tortured ply harry? feasible or not?

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of oceanplodder2003
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2007 4:36 PM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: [harryproa] Re: strip planking

Just thinking idly about strip planking vs the kitset idea, what about
a tortured ply harry? feasible or not?

Just thinking idly about strip planking vs the kitset idea, what about
a tortured ply harry? feasible or not?