Could I get some feedback on the construction photos or my trip photos
please.

Doug

G'day,

A soft drogue is good and probably what I will end up with, although  the bucket was handy and acts as storage for the rope.  Could use one spool for all three, but I worry about tangles and over rides.  With three, if one gets in a mess, the other two are still reeling in.

 

Are there any clearer pics of your 4 line reel?  How long are your lines?   I don't pull the lines, just ease them.  Makes it a lot easier, and there is much less steering required on an Outleader than on a higher performance kite.  It is much more a set and forget arrangement.  

 

My kite was originally sized for a 9m mono, hence the lines.  Kite and lines could easily be lighter, but the lines get very hard to handle while launching and retrieving if they are much thinner. 

 

If I get it going as quick as the moth I will be a very happy chappy. 

 

Hydroptere is indeed a magnificent machine, I would love to be on the same stretch of water at some stage.

 

Polycore is great.  Much better bonding than foam, almost as good physical properties, same weight and about half the price.

Yo;

Sounds like a nice system.
A soft drogue is easy to pull backwards.
I made a series drogue, from little cones 10cm dia,
all hung after each other on a long rope. Good stuff,
easy to make, no collapse.

Presumably if you put a small resistance on the lines
you can reel all three lines onto the same spool.

I sent a message yesterday or something, if it doesn't
show up, here is my rope actuated 4-line reel, works
well enough.
http://boatdesign.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7672&d=1150779259

How do you pull the control lines for steering the
kite? I use blocks when reeling out and in, and pull
the sheets directly when the lines are extended.

Your lines sounds really big, is that necessary? what
is their breaking strength? I use expensive ones
called q-powerline pro. They are about 1,5mm I think,
with a breaking strength of 300kg+ *after* knots are
tied on them. They have tight sheath and are supposed
to have less drag than less round lines.

Great that you beat the 29'er; but the moth will be
difficult to beat at that speed I think. Vertical
Lift/Water Drag of one 300kg tornado hull @ 20kt is 6
- 150kg is 4,6
(http://personal.inet.fi/private/muu/torodrag.htm).
Foils can have several times that efficiency. So once
you have won the transpac, you can put foils and
circle hydroptere. Look at their videos by the way, it
is beautiful.

How is that polycore, I hear good bonding, how are
other properties and price comparing to foam?

__________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
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Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM

Oh, and for anyone who got confused, I am using a
kitesurfing kite (peter lynn phantom 18m2). It can go
upwind as well, and the two rear lines are the
control/sheet lines.



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Ack, it ended up in the photos root directory instead.
Not my intention.



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Hi, the reel has moved from the euro dinghy to the
Tornado.

I put some photos, this time in the photo section,
inside the Non-HP folder.

I use what I have, which is about 4x55 meters. It is
more fun with the big kite then, because the sweeps
get loong :D (it turns slowly)

The endless red 15mm rope I made by pulling out the
core, and threading a thinner one several times around
through the sheath. Then I sewed together the core
ends, and then tried to sew the sheath to itself, not
successfully, doesn't matter.

Shitty axle is rusty and threaded and squeeks against
the plywood.

Usually I get less than a meter difference between the
lines when all the way in, no prob.
Like all spools, if I make many slack turns, or make a
heap in one side of the spool, and it falls over and
becomes loose, then any tight wrap over that can dig
its way down into the heap and jamb.
Like you say if one line is jambed then it can be
confusing to get loose since it can become reeled back
in while you reel out.

On my control bar there are blocks.
The rear lines go through these after coming out from
the small padeye.
When the spool is empty I tie rear lines directly to
the bar.




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Hi

Interesting.  Thanks for the details,

Kevin

--- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Outleaders are triangular in shape, with a control/flying line at
each corner.  They have a 4th line halfway along the top edge.  This
is the retrieval line.  The kite is hoisted by this and then the
flying lines are trimmed.  Once the kite is flying the retrieval line
stays slack until it is time to drop the kite, at which time 50m/60
yds of  line has top be pulled in with the kite streaming from the end
of it.  At the same time, the 3x50m 3mm spectra flying lines have to
be pulled in as well.  These lines are all unloaded at this stage, but
there is a lot of them and they are easily tangled.
>
> Each flying line has a water wheel and they are on a common axle
hung off the beam.  Water wheels are 150mm/6" dia plastic drainpipe
with 250mm/10" dia ply flanges. On the outside of one of the flanges
on each wheel are 8 pieces of  25mm/1" square glass,  which are the
paddles.    The water causes them to rotate, which pulls in the lines.
>
> The bitter end of the retrieval line goes through a pulley mounted
on a bucket handle and is then tied to the boat.  To retrieve the
kite, kick the bucket overboard and it pulls in the line twice as fast
as the boat is moving.  Haven't tried it yet, but if it works, then
1:3 or higher is conceivable, which means less distance to pull in the
bucket (pull all three lines at the same time) and an even quicker
retrieval.  A trip mechanism on the bucket once the kite is down will
make pulling the bucket in much easier.
>
> 15 knots forecast for Wednesday, will try it again then, will try
and get some photos.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: k_s_oneill
>   To: harryproa@...
>   Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 11:00 PM
>   Subject: [harryproa] Re: Outleader kite
>
>
>   Hi Rob
>
>   For those of us not up to speed on the whole kite thing, could you
>   explain some of the cryptic stuff below? You're using a bucket on a
>   rope in the water to somehow power the kite retrieval?
>
>   Thanks,
>
>   Kevin
>
>   --- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@> wrote:
>   >
>   > G'day,
>   >
>   > Now that thge rudders are working, I finally got to try the 40 sqm
>   kite on El today. Not enough wind (~5-8 knots)
>   > and the only line that was not adjustable (mast head retrieval line
>   tied to
>   > the top of the sail) was too long, so a couple of feet of kite
>   dragged in
>   > the water. Just enough to make it hard to set. Got one puff where it
>   > flew. Pretty impressive. The water driven line retrieval system
works,
>   > will work better with a few mods this weekend. It was great not
to have
>   > 200m of line to untangle and bag.
>   >
>   > I did not get to try the foot cleats, nor the 1:2 purchase using the
>   bucket in the water on the retrieval line.
>   >
>   > In 20 knots it is going to be a blast!
>   >
>   > reegartds,
>   >
>   > Rob
>   >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>   Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date:
5/13/2007 12:17 PM
>

Yo;

Sounds like a nice system.
A soft drogue is easy to pull backwards.
I made a series drogue, from little cones 10cm dia,
all hung after each other on a long rope. Good stuff,
easy to make, no collapse.

Presumably if you put a small resistance on the lines
you can reel all three lines onto the same spool.

I sent a message yesterday or something, if it doesn't
show up, here is my rope actuated 4-line reel, works
well enough.
http://boatdesign.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7672&d=1150779259

How do you pull the control lines for steering the
kite? I use blocks when reeling out and in, and pull
the sheets directly when the lines are extended.

Your lines sounds really big, is that necessary? what
is their breaking strength? I use expensive ones
called q-powerline pro. They are about 1,5mm I think,
with a breaking strength of 300kg+ *after* knots are
tied on them. They have tight sheath and are supposed
to have less drag than less round lines.

Great that you beat the 29'er; but the moth will be
difficult to beat at that speed I think. Vertical
Lift/Water Drag of one 300kg tornado hull @ 20kt is 6
- 150kg is 4,6
(http://personal.inet.fi/private/muu/torodrag.htm).
Foils can have several times that efficiency. So once
you have won the transpac, you can put foils and
circle hydroptere. Look at their videos by the way, it
is beautiful.

How is that polycore, I hear good bonding, how are
other properties and price comparing to foam?

__________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM

Yo;

Sounds like a nice system.
A soft drogue is easy to pull backwards.
I made a series drogue, from little cones 10cm dia,
all hung after each other on a long rope. Good stuff,
easy to make, no collapse.

Presumably if you put a small resistance on the lines
you can reel all three lines onto the same spool.

I sent a message yesterday or something, if it doesn't
show up, here is my rope actuated 4-line reel, works
well enough.
http://boatdesign.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7672&d=1150779259

How do you pull the control lines for steering the
kite? I use blocks when reeling out and in, and pull
the sheets directly when the lines are extended.

Your lines sounds really big, is that necessary? what
is their breaking strength? I use expensive ones
called q-powerline pro. They are about 1,5mm I think,
with a breaking strength of 300kg+ *after* knots are
tied on them. They have tight sheath and are supposed
to have less drag than less round lines.

Great that you beat the 29'er; but the moth will be
difficult to beat at that speed I think. Vertical
Lift/Water Drag of one 300kg tornado hull @ 20kt is 6
- 150kg is 4,6
(http://personal.inet.fi/private/muu/torodrag.htm).
Foils can have several times that efficiency. So once
you have won the transpac, you can put foils and
circle hydroptere. Look at their videos by the way, it
is beautiful.

How is that polycore, I hear good bonding, how are
other properties and price comparing to foam?



________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367

----- Original Message -----

From: k_s_oneill

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 11:00 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: Outleader kite

Hi Rob

For those of us not up to speed on the whole kite thing, could you
explain some of the cryptic stuff below? You're using a bucket on a
rope in the water to somehow power the kite retrieval?

Thanks,

Kevin

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rob Denney" <proa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Now that thge rudders are working, I finally got to try the 40 sqm
kite on El today. Not enough wind (~5-8 knots)
> and the only line that was not adjustable (mast head retrieval line
tied to
> the top of the sail) was too long, so a couple of feet of kite
dragged in
> the water. Just enough to make it hard to set. Got one puff where it
> flew. Pretty impressive. The water driven line retrieval system works,
> will work better with a few mods this weekend. It was great not to have
> 200m of line to untangle and bag.
>
> I did not get to try the foot cleats, nor the 1:2 purchase using the
bucket in the water on the retrieval line.
>
> In 20 knots it is going to be a blast!
>
> reegartds,
>
> Rob
>

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM

Hi Rob

For those of us not up to speed on the whole kite thing, could you
explain some of the cryptic stuff below?  You're using a bucket on a
rope in the water to somehow power the kite retrieval?

Thanks,

Kevin

--- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Now that thge rudders are working, I finally got to try the 40 sqm
kite on El today.  Not enough wind (~5-8 knots)
> and the only line that was not adjustable (mast head retrieval line
tied to
> the top of the sail) was too long, so a couple of feet of kite
dragged in
> the water.  Just enough to make it hard to set.    Got one puff where it
> flew.  Pretty impressive.  The water driven line retrieval system works,
> will work better with a few mods this weekend.  It was great not to have
> 200m of line to untangle and bag.
>
> I did not get to try the foot cleats, nor the 1:2 purchase using the
bucket in the water on the retrieval line.
>
> In 20 knots it is going to be a blast!
>
> reegartds,
>
> Rob
>

G'day,

 

Apologies for cross posting.  This report from Rudolph on Blind Date (15m Visionarry sports).

Hi,

 

Today we sailed BD back to Stavoren where she is berthed as long we are working on her. Last weekend the foundation had a 'kick off day' in Lelystad.

We had enough wind, 24 knots with squalls. We started with reefed jib and one reef in the main.  When the dark clouds came upon us we took the jib down as a precaution.

 

Eventually we put the second reef in as the squall hit us. Course was broad reach later beam reach and eventually dead downwind. We saw 13.6 knots max. on the GPS.  Last bit was dead downwind even then 11 knots. Helming is a joy, even if we were cautious not to be too brutal on the rudder.

 

Waves over here are very short, steep and irregular which doesn't help if you want to sail fast. We weren't looking for speed but we felt the rudder was not over stressed and we were down to minimum sail area. It was a wet ride with the bow cutting through waves that sometimes crashed into the beam.

 

Motion is great. I like it much better than a cat.   

 

Regards,

Rudolf

Hi,

 

Today we sailed BD back to Stavoren where she is berthed as long we are working on her. Last weekend the foundation had a 'kick off day' in Lelystad.

We had enough wind, 24 knots with squalls. We started with reefed jib and one reef in the main.  When the dark clouds came upon us we took the jib down as a precaution.

 

Eventually we put the second reef in as the squall hit us. Course was broad reach later beam reach and eventually dead downwind. We saw 13.6 knots max. on the GPS.  Last bit was dead downwind even then 11 knots. Helming is a joy, even if we were cautious not to be too brutal on the rudder.

 

Waves over here are very short, steep and irregular which doesn't help if you want to sail fast. We weren't looking for speed but we felt the rudder was not over stressed and we were down to minimum sail area. It was a wet ride with the bow cutting through waves that sometimes crashed into the beam.

 

Motion is great. I like it much better than a cat.   

 

Regards,

Rudolf

Hello all,

I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself and say
hello to all of you in this group.

My name is Dave and I live in Geraldton Western Australia.

I am not a sailor but have surfed and kite surfed for some time and
love being in/on the water.
I am interested in starting to sail and during my yacht hunting, I
stumbled across the harryproa website. I was struck by the simplicity
and look of these boats. I have been following the harryproa movements
over the last few months and have been fortunate enough to have had a
sail with Rob a few weeks ago.

I am interested in building a harry of my own and will be attending
the upcoming KSS workshop. So to any of you also attending I look
forward to meeting you.

You won't hear from me much as I do not have much knowledge in sailing
and proas in general, but I do enjoy reading all of your comments and
suggestions about harryproas.

Thanks for your time.

Dave

----- Original Message -----

From: Myriam & Youri

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:27 PM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] sailing El

Rob,

What about hybrid tracks …

An alloy box beam with the following specs :

Hight: 72 mm

Width: 35 mm

Wall Thickness: 2.0 mm

 Has a second moment of area of:

Lx  (down) of 276357 mm4

Ly (side) of 88434 mm4

Built in alloy would give a weight of 3,0 kg

Built in carbon/epoxy (Wf 40 %) 1,67 kg

The ratio of Ec/Eal being 1.786 the section could still be reduced to get the same second moment of area …

Rest us to know what flexural stiffness we need in our beams …

Maybe taking a 100 kg person standing on the middle of the track to reach for the mast p.e. could be an idea …

The a low profile alloys track ( like Harken  2707 weighting 0.214 kg a running meter) could be mounted on the on the underside of the trackbeam)  …

A car like Harken 2732 (high strength Torlon balls) or 2733 (Delrin balls) weighting  0.106 kg  can then easily be rolled on or off …

This would reduce the complexity of construction and adjusting, while enhancing reliability …

By the ways happy anniversary from all of us, especially from Myriam …

Best regards,

Myriam & Youri

Wangka bvba

Belgium

e-mail.  info@wangkaboats.eu

web. www.wangkaboats.eu

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] Namens Rob Denney
Verzonden: zaterdag 12 mei 2007 16:29
Aan: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Onderwerp: Re: [harryproa] sailing El

G'day,

Because they would not be the way I when I return it to a round the buoys racer.  Definitely one rudder, not two for this, but still undecided about the best track system.    Definitely one sail as well.

Phil, pics when I get them.  May even throw a coat of paint on first.

regards

rob

----- Original Message -----

From: Myriam & Youri

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 9:34 PM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] sailing El

Rob,

Are you chopping off the tracks and bits of El. just for testing for the Transpac or would you use 2 rudders on El even if this means slower shunting …

And less tyrimming possibilities …

Best regards,

Myriam & Youri

Wangka bvba

Belgium

e-mail. info@wangkaboats.eu

web. www.wangkaboats.eu

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] Namens Rob Denney
Verzonden: zaterdag 12 mei 2007 14:24
Aan: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Onderwerp: [harryproa] sailing El

G'day,

Took Elementarry for a sail with the new rudders today.  15 minutes from arriving at the ramp to ready to sail, then out into 15-20 knots.  Took it easy to start with, but everything seemed solid so went for a blast.  Worked very well.  Shunting is slow with raising and lowering rudders, but on the Transpac this will not be a problem.  For close quarters sailing, I left them both down.  The river was empty, but eventually a 29er skiff (70 kgs, 12.5 sqm sail, 2 small guys crew) came out to play.    I sailed behind them and luffed up to hard on the wind.  They were mostly overpowered (small easing of the sheet), i was way underpowered.  I could not sail through close  to leeward of them, so went into pointing mode, got behind them then scooted past, pointing higher and going faster.  They then bore away onto a reach, I did not notice for a few minutes then bore away as well.  Caught them like they were anchored.  A triumph for long and skinny over planing.

They went ashore and I noticed a hydrofoil moth up wind.  I came hard on the w ind and after a couple of tacks was gaining (much slower, but pointing higher).  He then bore away and sailed downwind.  I followed but did not have enough sail area to go as deep or as fast.  We then started reaching (breeze now 12 knots) and he left me for dead.  A triumph for foils over length.  The skiff has a little more sail and is lighter than El, the moth has 70% sail and about 40% of the weight, so it was not too embarassing.    The crew of both of them were working very hard, (the moth did a couple of spectacular crashes off the foils), I was mostly sitting there, wishing for 10 knots more breeze or a bigger main.  The rudders squeek (cheap drainpipe bearings), which will eventually drive me nuts,  but otherwise work very well.  All in all a fun way to spend an afternoon.

Next job is to chop off all the old bits of rudder tracks and fittings and see if I can make the Outleader kite work.   Stay tuned.

regards,

Rob

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/792 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:01 PM

---

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/792 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:01 PM

----- Original Message -----

From: Myriam & Youri

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 9:34 PM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] sailing El

Rob,

Are you chopping off the tracks and bits of El. just for testing for the Transpac or would you use 2 rudders on El even if this means slower shunting …

And less tyrimming possibilities …

Best regards,

Myriam & Youri

Wangka bvba

Belgium

e-mail. info@wangkaboats.eu

web. www.wangkaboats.eu

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] Namens Rob Denney
Verzonden: zaterdag 12 mei 2007 14:24
Aan: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Onderwerp: [harryproa] sailing El

G'day,

Took Elementarry for a sail with the new rudders today.  15 minutes from arriving at the ramp to ready to sail, then out into 15-20 knots.  Took it easy to start with, but everything seemed solid so went for a blast.  Worked very well.  Shunting is slow with raising and lowering rudders, but on the Transpac this will not be a problem.  For close quarters sailing, I left them both down.  The river was empty, but eventually a 29er skiff (70 kgs, 12.5 sqm sail, 2 small guys crew) came out to play.    I sailed behind them and luffed up to hard on the wind.  They were mostly overpowered (small easing of the sheet), i was way underpowered.  I could not sail through close  to leeward of them, so went into pointing mode, got behind them then scooted past, pointing higher and going faster.  They then bore away onto a reach, I did not notice for a few minutes then bore away as well.  Caught them like they were anchored.  A triumph for long and skinny over planing.

They went ashore and I noticed a hydrofoil moth up wind.  I came hard on the w ind and after a couple of tacks was gaining (much slower, but pointing higher).  He then bore away and sailed downwind.  I followed but did not have enough sail area to go as deep or as fast.  We then started reaching (breeze now 12 knots) and he left me for dead.  A triumph for foils over length.  The skiff has a little more sail and is lighter than El, the moth has 70% sail and about 40% of the weight, so it was not too embarassing.    The crew of both of them were working very hard, (the moth did a couple of spectacular crashes off the foils), I was mostly sitting there, wishing for 10 knots more breeze or a bigger main.  The rudders squeek (cheap drainpipe bearings), which will eventually drive me nuts,  but otherwise work very well.  All in all a fun way to spend an afternoon.

Next job is to chop off all the old bits of rudder tracks and fittings and see if I can make the Outleader kite work.   Stay tuned.

regards,

Rob

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/792 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:01 PM

Rob,

 

Are you chopping off the tracks and bits of El. just for testing for the Transpac or would you use 2 rudders on El even if this means slower shunting …

And less tyrimming possibilities …

 

Best regards,

 

Myriam & Youri

Wangka bvba

Belgium

 

e-mail. info@wangkaboats.eu

web. www.wangkaboats.eu

 

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] Namens Rob Denney
Verzonden: zaterdag 12 mei 2007 14:24
Aan: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Onderwerp: [harryproa] sailing El

 

G'day,

 

Took Elementarry for a sail with the new rudders today.  15 minutes from arriving at the ramp to ready to sail, then out into 15-20 knots.  Took it easy to start with, but everything seemed solid so went for a blast.  Worked very well.  Shunting is slow with raising and lowering rudders, but on the Transpac this will not be a problem.  For close quarters sailing, I left them both down.  The river was empty, but eventually a 29er skiff (70 kgs, 12.5 sqm sail, 2 small guys crew) came out to play.    I sailed behind them and luffed up to hard on the wind.  They were mostly overpowered (small easing of the sheet), i was way underpowered.  I could not sail through close  to leeward of them, so went into pointing mode, got behind them then scooted past, pointing higher and going faster.  They then bore away onto a reach, I did not notice for a few minutes then bore away as well.  Caught them like they were anchored.  A triumph for long and skinny over planing.

 

They went ashore and I noticed a hydrofoil moth up wind.  I came hard on the w ind and after a couple of tacks was gaining (much slower, but pointing higher).  He then bore away and sailed downwind.  I followed but did not have enough sail area to go as deep or as fast.  We then started reaching (breeze now 12 knots) and he left me for dead.  A triumph for foils over length.  The skiff has a little more sail and is lighter than El, the moth has 70% sail and about 40% of the weight, so it was not too embarassing.    The crew of both of them were working very hard, (the moth did a couple of spectacular crashes off the foils), I was mostly sitting there, wishing for 10 knots more breeze or a bigger main.  The rudders squeek (cheap drainpipe bearings), which will eventually drive me nuts,  but otherwise work very well.  All in all a fun way to spend an afternoon.

 

Next job is to chop off all the old bits of rudder tracks and fittings and see if I can make the Outleader kite work.   Stay tuned.

 

regards,

 

Rob

G'day,

 

Took Elementarry for a sail with the new rudders today.  15 minutes from arriving at the ramp to ready to sail, then out into 15-20 knots.  Took it easy to start with, but everything seemed solid so went for a blast.  Worked very well.  Shunting is slow with raising and lowering rudders, but on the Transpac this will not be a problem.  For close quarters sailing, I left them both down.  The river was empty, but eventually a 29er skiff (70 kgs, 12.5 sqm sail, 2 small guys crew) came out to play.    I sailed behind them and luffed up to hard on the wind.  They were mostly overpowered (small easing of the sheet), i was way underpowered.  I could not sail through close  to leeward of them, so went into pointing mode, got behind them then scooted past, pointing higher and going faster.  They then bore away onto a reach, I did not notice for a few minutes then bore away as well.  Caught them like they were anchored.  A triumph for long and skinny over planing.

 

They went ashore and I noticed a hydrofoil moth up wind.  I came hard on the w ind and after a couple of tacks was gaining (much slower, but pointing higher).  He then bore away and sailed downwind.  I followed but did not have enough sail area to go as deep or as fast.  We then started reaching (breeze now 12 knots) and he left me for dead.  A triumph for foils over length.  The skiff has a little more sail and is lighter than El, the moth has 70% sail and about 40% of the weight, so it was not too embarassing.    The crew of both of them were working very hard, (the moth did a couple of spectacular crashes off the foils), I was mostly sitting there, wishing for 10 knots more breeze or a bigger main.  The rudders squeek (cheap drainpipe bearings), which will eventually drive me nuts,  but otherwise work very well.  All in all a fun way to spend an afternoon.

 

Next job is to chop off all the old bits of rudder tracks and fittings and see if I can make the Outleader kite work.   Stay tuned.

 

regards,

 

Rob

Hi,

I weghed parts recently:

masts 24kg each
booms 6 kg each
beams 23kgs each
deck 21kgs
rudders 10kg each.

I expect new ones of all the above to be about half weight
DOug

Hi,

I weghed parts recently:

masts 24kg each
booms 6 kg each
beams 23kgs each
deck 21kgs
rudders 10kg each.

I expect new ones of all the above to be about half weight
DOug

-Thanks Michelle,
I would have loved to join the workshop but unfortunately don't think
I can make it,
  Robert

-- In harryproa@..., "michele_balharry" <michele@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> The May 2007 update for www.harryproa.com
>
> KSS Workshop with Derek Kelsall 7th - 11th June 2007 at Urunga
> Australia.
> Harryproa is hosting this exciting workshop and places are still
> available. The workshop will be an introduction to the KSS (Kelsall
> Swiftbuild Sandwich) building method which is an effective and
> economical method suitable for any size cat or proa.
> http://www.harryproa.com/workshop.htm
>
> Rob Denney planning Solitarry for solo racing
> http://www.harryproa.com/SoloTranspac/Solitarry1.htm
>
> What has happened to the old Harrigami?
> http://www.harryproa.com/harry_proa/NZ/2.htm
>
> Blind Date sailing trials in Holland
> http://www.harryproa.com/BlindDate/Jan_11.htm
>
> Proa 66 - a Proa in the Snow
> http://www.harryproa.com/Builders/TAlvestad/T&S_Alvestad_4.htm
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>       Michele
>
> ----------------------
> Michele M Balharry
> Harryproa Pty Ltd
> ph: (02) 6655 2016
> michele@...
> www.harryproa.com
> -----------------------
>

Hello Everyone,

The May 2007 update for www.harryproa.com

KSS Workshop with Derek Kelsall 7th - 11th June 2007 at Urunga
Australia.
Harryproa is hosting this exciting workshop and places are still
available. The workshop will be an introduction to the KSS (Kelsall
Swiftbuild Sandwich) building method which is an effective and
economical method suitable for any size cat or proa.
http://www.harryproa.com/workshop.htm

Rob Denney planning Solitarry for solo racing
http://www.harryproa.com/SoloTranspac/Solitarry1.htm

What has happened to the old Harrigami?
http://www.harryproa.com/harry_proa/NZ/2.htm

Blind Date sailing trials in Holland
http://www.harryproa.com/BlindDate/Jan_11.htm

Proa 66 - a Proa in the Snow
http://www.harryproa.com/Builders/TAlvestad/T&S_Alvestad_4.htm


Cheers,

       Michele

----------------------
Michele M Balharry
Harryproa Pty Ltd
ph: (02) 6655 2016
michele@...
www.harryproa.com
-----------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of k_s_oneill
Sent: Thursday, 3 May 2007 2:57 AM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: [harryproa] Re: telescoping again

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Mike Crawford <jmichael@...>
wrote:
>
>
> I'll have to contradict myself after having taken a look at some
of
> the Radical Bay 8000 photos at http://www.smartyachting.com/ .
>
> They have a swept-back una rig with a self-vanging boom that uses
> sails with luff pockets on some versions, and the system appears to
work
> well. It appears that between the arc of the mast and the battens
that
> they are able to properly support the sail for decent shape. They
are
> going with a soft sailcloth for previously-mentioned reasons.
>
> The halyard arrangement seems a bit odd, though. I'm sure
Schionning
> and company have reasons for running the line outside the sails, but
> from the photos, it seems as if this would affect sail shape and
> efficiency in the precise location that the luff pocket is supposed
to
> be helping.

It looks to me as though the halyard is being used there to bend the
mast and flatten the sail when they're reefed; I guess that when
reefed the sail luff tension is not enough to bend the mast.

Kevin

--- In harryproa@..., <mark@...> wrote:
> The ww hull can also swivel and has the rudder fixed under the pivot
> point. This provides both steering and lateral resistance and is
> operated by pushing with your feet. A line to each end of the hull
> controls the swing of the beam. An endless sheet controls the boom.

In theory, you should be able to treat the rig and lee hull like a
kite, if you arrange for the lee hull to align itself with water flow.
A retractable finn at each end might do the job.  From there on, you
would have two options.  The one I would bet (a moderate sum of) money
on to work is that you give the weather hull a rudder as well as the
dagger board, you point it in the direction you want to go, and let
the rig and lee hull look after themselves.  Like a traction kite, the
rig should find its own angle to the wind.  The sheet would only be
used to adjust power, not when changing course.  The lee hull does
nothing but support the rig and provide stability, it has nothing
whatsoever to do with steering.  Kiteboats work that way (with the
kite not using a hull to keep it up), so Cantarry should be able to
apply the same principle.  Actually, as far as the principle goes,
this is all tried and tested and impeccably orthodox, even if the
orthodoxy is not immediately apparent to the casual observer.

The option which should also work but may offer less fine control is
to set the angle of the weather hull relative to the beam and rely on
the rig being far to lee to pull the beam where it should be pointing,
perhaps helping a bit by working the sheet.  To fall off, you sheet
in, to luff up, you fall off.  Effectively, that is what you have now,
except that you use lines instead of a fin at the end of the lee hull
to keep the hulls parallel.  That should have the disadvantage that if
the lee hull gets pushed around by waves a bit, you have to deal with
those forces using your feet.  It sounds like more work.

Regards

Robert Biegler

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of sigurd grung
Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2007 6:34 AM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: [harryproa] cantarry

Hello, you guys are nuts. Imagine when your feet slip
and you slide down with your nuts against those nuts!
Is that where you had your cup holder?

I don't see a sheet cleat either.

Thanks a lot for the images and report!
later,

Sigurd

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Jim Baltaxe
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Victoria University of Wellington
NEW ZEALAND
(04) 463 5018 or 027 563 5018 

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Klein bottle for rent.  Inquire within.
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" -- Albert Einstein

---

From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of mark@...
Sent: Tuesday, 8 May 2007 5:24 p.m.
To: harryproa@...
Subject: RE: [harryproa] cantarry

OK, more photos posted. I am intending to write a report but haven't found the time. I see what I can get together soon.

 

Mark

 

 

...................................

Mark Stephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of sigurd grung
Sent: Tuesday, 8 May 2007 1:22 PM
To: harryproa@groups.yahoo.com
Subject: [harryproa] cantarry

how is the pitch attitude transferred between the
hulls? is the alu tube resisting all the torque?
You have foot straps on lines along the aka to adjust
the longi placement of the ww hull?
can you post some close ups please? pretty please?

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