-Looking forward to more tales from sidecar,
Robert-- In harryproa@..., Doug Haines <doha720@...>
wrote:
>
> Rob (and anyone interested),
>
> I was waiting for some weather wuindow this week to relaunch
SIDECAR, and although a nice few days look to be coming up I am now
stiff in the back from sleeping in some cold nights, 3-4 degs, in the
tent at Maylands (boat Yard). Hopefully I will straighten out, and be
able to handle the padlle (my version of auxilliary power), and mast
raising (my very heavy fibreglass and timber masts), and general
effort of launching. Been looking forward to sailing with the new
narrower beam and aft placed rudders, plus tensioned more flexible
battens too, since leaving for Singapore and now being back. It's been
quite a while since taking it out after the 3 week trip up and down
the coast I did.
> Still planning for a December or Jearly January departur3e round
the top. I found a web site called tidesend selling cheap chart
copies, so thats one problem sorted out. The new roof shelter should
also make the trip much easier. Sorry no photos lately as camera been
stolen!
> Hoping to meet up with Rob for a sail around on the Swan river in
Perth as I make my way back down the coast from Perth to Mandurah.
>
> I am as surprised as anyone at the initial momentum gathering of
the Harryproa. Unlike its own performance. I was keen to be "one of
the first" harryproa owners since I read the articles in 2003. The
articles were enough to convince me.
>
> Personally after biulding with epoxy for about 7 years on and off
I am no longer considering a career in building these boats. Although
KSS sounds improved. I really can' t bear the thought of working with
anymore chemical substances, Perhaps in 5 years I 'll feel up to
making a another bigger HP. Shame, because it is good fun building.
First timers or seasoned builders should keep their health as proirty
number one.
>
> Doug
>
> Rob Denney <harryproa@...> wrote:
> G'day,
>
> For some people the building of the boat is more important than the
sailing. For others, the reality of life on board does not match the
expectation. In Bain's case, he just needs the cash. As for reports
on others, the finished boats I know of arre as follows:
>
> The first one we built is in Maine. We ended up spending almost as
much on it as he did, but he still felt ripped off. Consequently, he
does not talk to us. 2nd hand information is that the boat does
everything he wanted (which was a big ask as he wanted to use it as a
ferry boat out to boats in the bay, as well as a fast cruiser).
> The second one we built was Rare Bird. The owner died, boat is for
sale, the video tells all we know about it's sailing ability at this
stage.
> The third one we built was my Elementarry, sails and handles very
well, but needs the last 5% of preparation before it will win any
races. I lent it to someone last week who discovered a way to break a
rudder, the replacement (much more elegant, and similar to what is
going on Blind Date and Solitarry) will be finished this week. I have
finally learnt how to download and handle photos so there should be
some available once it is finished.
> The 4th one was another Elementarry, which is for sale as the owner
wants a Harry. As far as I know it sails well and does everything he
wanted.
> The others that are actually sailing are:
> Bain's, which we are trying to get a report on.
> Blind Date which is catching up on all the sailing commitments and
is out regularly. It sails well, but they want to build new rudders
over the winter, so are taking it easy so they don't break the ones
they have. Jan is on this list, may write something about his
experiences so far. Rudolph, who built it, is going to build a
Solitarry for personal use.
> Doug's boat which goes back in the water tomorrow, and will be
setting off on a trip round Australia this summer. Doug's comments on
how it sails are on this list.
> My original Harrigami, with a longer leeward hull is in Cairns,
Australia. The mast is in, but Aaron is settling in to a new life and
business so progress is slow.
>
> I think that is everyone, the rest are still under construction.
Anybody I have missed, please let us know.
>
> So, unfortunately, there is still not a lot of feedback available.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
> .
> Bain's boat, which
>
> On 8/26/07, George Kuck <chesapeake410@...> wrote:
> Hello Mark,
>
> I can't imagine how anyone could sell a boat in less than a year
after it was launched, with all the time and energy put into
constructing the boat ! I thought Bain had plans to sail it to New
Zealand, what happened ? Can you find out more about his experiences
sailing the boat and how it performed ? Did it live up to his
expectations of how it would sail and handle or was he disappointed
and did not think it was suitable for sailing to New Zealand ?
>
> It would also be nice to have some followup reports and sailing
photos from other owners of Harryproa's. There seams to be a lot of
reports and links to owners during construction but the reports seam
to abruptly stop as soon as the boats are launched ! Perhaps a
friendly letter from you or Rob to the current owners of Harryproa's
requesting feedback on the boats and pictures or movies would help.
>
> George Kuck
> Chestertown, MD
>
>
> mark@... wrote:
> Bain mentioned the other day he is planning on some sailing
photos soon as he is putting the boat up for sale . He needs cash for
another enterprise (non boat). Another well known member of this group
is seriously interested. I understand the price is yet to be determined.
>
> Mark
>
>
> ...................................
> Mark Stephens
> www.harryproa.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
[mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 8:11 PM
> To: harryproa@...
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: Bain's Harry
>
>
> -I was looking at the pics of Bain's Harry and was once again
> impressed by the simplicity and elegance of the boat. When will we
> have some sailing pics?
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at
Yahoo! Games.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good
this month.
>
I was waiting for some weather wuindow this week to relaunch SIDECAR, and although a nice few days look to be coming up I am now stiff in the back from sleeping in some cold nights, 3-4 degs, in the tent at Maylands (boat Yard). Hopefully I will straighten out, and be able to handle the padlle (my version of auxilliary power), and mast raising (my very heavy fibreglass and timber masts), and general effort of launching. Been looking forward to sailing with the new narrower beam and aft placed rudders, plus tensioned more flexible battens too, since leaving for Singapore and now being back. It's been quite a while since taking it out after the 3 week trip up and down the coast I did.
Still planning for a December or Jearly January departur3e round the top. I found a web site called tidesend selling cheap chart copies, so thats one problem sorted out. The new roof shelter should also make the
trip much easier. Sorry no photos lately as camera been stolen!
Hoping to meet up with Rob for a sail around on the Swan river in Perth as I make my way back down the coast from Perth to Mandurah.
I am as surprised as anyone at the initial momentum gathering of the Harryproa. Unlike its own performance. I was keen to be "one of the first" harryproa owners since I read the articles in 2003. The articles were enough to convince me.
Personally after biulding with epoxy for about 7 years on and off I am no longer considering a career in building these boats. Although KSS sounds improved. I really can' t bear the thought of working with anymore chemical substances, Perhaps in 5 years I 'll feel up to making a another bigger HP. Shame, because it is good fun building. First timers or seasoned builders should keep their health as proirty number one.
Doug
Rob Denney <harryproa@...> wrote:
G'day,
For some people the building of the boat is more important than the sailing. For others, the reality of life on board does not match the expectation. In Bain's case, he just needs the cash. As for reports on others, the finished boats I know of arre as follows:
The first one we built is in Maine. We ended up spending almost as much on it as he did, but he still felt ripped off. Consequently, he does not talk to us. 2nd hand
information is that the boat does everything he wanted (which was a big ask as he wanted to use it as a ferry boat out to boats in the bay, as well as a fast cruiser). The second one we built was Rare Bird. The owner died, boat is for sale, the video tells all we know about it's sailing ability at this stage. The third one we built was my Elementarry, sails and handles very well, but needs the last 5% of preparation before it will win any races. I lent it to someone last week who discovered a way to break a rudder, the replacement (much more elegant, and similar to what is going on Blind Date and Solitarry) will be finished this week. I have finally learnt how to download and handle photos so there should be some available once it is finished. The 4th one was another Elementarry, which is for sale as the owner wants a Harry. As far as I know it sails well and does everything he wanted. The others that are actually sailing
are: Bain's, which we are trying to get a report on. Blind Date which is catching up on all the sailing commitments and is out regularly. It sails well, but they want to build new rudders over the winter, so are taking it easy so they don't break the ones they have. Jan is on this list, may write something about his experiences so far. Rudolph, who built it, is going to build a Solitarry for personal use. Doug's boat which goes back in the water tomorrow, and will be setting off on a trip round Australia this summer. Doug's comments on how it sails are on this list. My original Harrigami, with a longer leeward hull is in Cairns, Australia. The mast is in, but Aaron is settling in to a new life and business so progress is slow.
I think that is everyone, the rest are still under construction. Anybody I have missed, please let us know.
So, unfortunately, there is still not a lot of feedback available.
I can't imagine how anyone could sell a boat in less than a year after it was launched, with all the time and energy put into constructing the boat ! I thought Bain had plans to sail it to New Zealand, what happened ? Can you find out more about his experiences sailing the boat and how it performed ? Did it live up to his expectations of how it would sail and handle or was he disappointed and did not think it was suitable for sailing to New Zealand ?
It would also be nice to have some followup reports and sailing photos from other owners of Harryproa's. There seams to be a lot of reports and links to owners during construction but the reports seam to abruptly stop as soon as the boats are launched ! Perhaps a friendly letter from you or Rob to the current owners of Harryproa's requesting feedback on the boats and pictures or movies would help.
Bain mentioned the other day he is planning on some sailing photos soon as he is putting the boat up for sale . He needs cash for another enterprise (non boat). Another well known member
of this group is seriously interested. I understand the price is yet to be determined.
-----Original Message----- From: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Robert Sent:
Saturday, 25 August 2007 8:11 PM To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au Subject: [harryproa] Re: Bain's Harry
-I was looking at the pics of Bain's Harry and was once again impressed by the simplicity and elegance of the boat. When will we have some sailing pics? Robert
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good this month.
I've been involved with amateur built projects for a long time, including boats and aeroplanes. It is not uncommon for builders to sell their projects soon after launching. They take a lot of time, effort and money and the builder is not the same person at the end of the build as at the beginning. Lives change, needs change, priorities change. Bain loves his boat and is very impressed with it's performance but now needs the money more than the boat, a personal choice.
We do request feed back but so far the builders haven't been the sort of people who do that. They tell us what great times they are having but don't put pen to paper. I remember in the early Schionning days we had enormous difficulty getting people to write about their experiences so it's not just Harryproas.
-----Original Message----- From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of George Kuck Sent: Sunday, 26 August 2007 10:43 AM To: harryproa@... Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: Bain's Harry
Hello Mark,
I can't imagine how anyone could sell a boat in less than a year after it was launched, with all the time and energy put into constructing the boat ! I thought Bain had plans to sail it to New Zealand, what happened ? Can you find out more about his experiences sailing the boat and how it performed ? Did it live up to his expectations of how it would sail and handle or was he disappointed and did not think it was suitable for sailing to New Zealand ?
It would also be nice to have some followup reports and sailing photos from other owners of Harryproa's. There seams to be a lot of reports and links to owners during construction but the reports seam to abruptly stop as soon as the boats are launched ! Perhaps a friendly letter from you or Rob to the current owners of Harryproa's requesting feedback on the boats and pictures or movies would help.
George Kuck
Chestertown, MD
mark@harryproa.com wrote:
Bain mentioned the other day he is planning on some sailing photos soon as he is putting the boat up for sale . He needs cash for another enterprise (non boat). Another well known member of this group is seriously interested. I understand the price is yet to be determined.
-----Original Message----- From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 8:11 PM To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au Subject: [harryproa] Re: Bain's Harry
-I was looking at the pics of Bain's Harry and was once again impressed by the simplicity and elegance of the boat. When will we have some sailing pics? Robert
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
-I was wondering about db glass on the outside for almost the whole
sheet except around the bows and adding the stringer glass to the
inside, thus allowing more movement in the outer skin. Possibly using
epoxy resin that resoftens if warmed above its initial curing temp-
Wish Bain success in the non boat project,
robert
- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> It is glassed down to near enough the start of the turn of the
bilge. We
> are looking at options to get the normal harry shape with as little
effort
> as possible.
>
> Bain has been sailing, is apparently happy with the boat, but getting
> pictures off boat has not proved any easier than it has on Rare Bird, or
> Blind Date for that matter, which is regularly out in Holland.
>
> rr
>
> On 8/25/07, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
> >
> > How much of the hull is glassed before the torture. I was
wondering if
> > most of the outside could be glassed initially for the leeward hull as
> > there isn't as much complex curvature.
> > The use of the blow up bag certainly spreads the stress nicely.
> > Robert
> > RObert--- In harryproa@...
<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>,
> > "Rob Denney"
> > <harryproa@> wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > No reason why not. The time it takes to set it up has to be
compared the
> > > time it saves. On small hulls with light laminates, it is
probably not
> > > worth the effort, particularly on the inside, where bagging the
bow is
> > > tricky. The bigger the hull, the more sense it makes.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > On 8/23/07, Robert <cateran1949@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > -can you resin infuse the below waterline glassing?
> > > > Robert
> > > > -- In harryproa@...
<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>
> > <harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>, "Rob
> > > > Denney" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > G'day,
> > > > >
> > > > > The foam held it's shape. In fact, it was possible to apply
a bit of
> > > > > downwards force to the gunwhale and get even more round in
the bilge
> > > > before
> > > > > it was glassed.
> > > > >
> > > > > regards,
> > > > > Rob
> > > > >
> > > > > On 8/22/07, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Rob,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How did you glass the inside with the bag holding the
shape and in
> > > > > > the way, or did the foam hold it's shape on it's own after
sitting
> > > > > > overnight ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > George Kuck
> > > > > > Chestertown, MD
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- In
harryproa@...<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>
> > <harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au><harryproa%40yahoog
> >
> > > > roups.com.au>,
> > > > > > "proaharry" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > G'day,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have posted some photos that Mark took of the windward
> > hull being
> > > > > > > built. Pretty incredible. Derek has managed to get a
compound
> > > > > > curve
> > > > > > > from the flat foam panels, in a similar way to tortured ply.
> > > > > > > Differences are that the foam can be much thicker (we used
> > 12mm/half
> > > > > > > inch, could have been any thickness), more compounding
can be
> > > > > > achieved
> > > > > > > as the foam will stretch and it is quicker and easier. The
> > hull was
> > > > > > > glassed inside below the waterline the following day, and
> > outside
> > > > > > > below the waterline the day after. The deck is being infused
> > > > > > > tomorrow. The cabin and other bits the following day.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > Rob
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
For some people the building of the boat is more important than the sailing. For others, the reality of life on board does not match the expectation. In Bain's case, he just needs the cash. As for reports on others, the finished boats I know of arre as follows:
The first one we built is in Maine. We ended up spending almost as much on it as he did, but he still felt ripped off. Consequently, he does not talk to us. 2nd hand information is that the boat does everything he wanted (which was a big ask as he wanted to use it as a ferry boat out to boats in the bay, as well as a fast cruiser).
The second one we built was Rare Bird. The owner died, boat is for sale, the video tells all we know about it's sailing ability at this stage. The third one we built was my Elementarry, sails and handles very well, but needs the last 5% of preparation before it will win any races. I lent it to someone last week who discovered a way to break a rudder, the replacement (much more elegant, and similar to what is going on Blind Date and Solitarry) will be finished this week. I have finally learnt how to download and handle photos so there should be some available once it is finished.
The 4th one was another Elementarry, which is for sale as the owner wants a Harry. As far as I know it sails well and does everything he wanted. The others that are actually sailing are: Bain's, which we are trying to get a report on.
Blind Date which is catching up on all the sailing commitments and is out regularly. It sails well, but they want to build new rudders over the winter, so are taking it easy so they don't break the ones they have. Jan is on this list, may write something about his experiences so far. Rudolph, who built it, is going to build a Solitarry for personal use.
Doug's boat which goes back in the water tomorrow, and will be setting off on a trip round Australia this summer. Doug's comments on how it sails are on this list. My original Harrigami, with a longer leeward hull is in Cairns, Australia. The mast is in, but Aaron is settling in to a new life and business so progress is slow.
I think that is everyone, the rest are still under construction. Anybody I have missed, please let us know.
So, unfortunately, there is still not a lot of feedback available.
I can't imagine how anyone could sell a boat in less than a year after it was launched, with all the time and energy put into constructing the boat ! I thought Bain had plans to sail it to New Zealand, what happened ? Can you find out more about his experiences sailing the boat and how it performed ? Did it live up to his expectations of how it would sail and handle or was he disappointed and did not think it was suitable for sailing to New Zealand ?
It would also be nice to have some followup reports and sailing photos from other owners of Harryproa's. There seams to be a lot of reports and links to owners during construction but the reports seam to abruptly stop as soon as the boats are launched ! Perhaps a friendly letter from you or Rob to the current owners of Harryproa's requesting feedback on the boats and
pictures or movies would help.
Bain mentioned the other day he is planning on some sailing photos soon as he is putting the boat up for sale . He needs cash for another enterprise (non boat). Another well known member of this group is seriously interested. I understand the price is yet to be determined.
-----Original Message----- From: harryproa@yahoogrou
ps.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 8:11 PM To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au Subject: [harryproa] Re: Bain's Harry
-I was looking at the pics of Bain's Harry and was once again impressed by the simplicity and elegance of the boat. When will we have some sailing pics? Robert
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
I can't imagine how anyone could sell a boat in less than a year after it was launched, with all the time and energy put into constructing the boat ! I thought Bain had plans to sail it to New Zealand, what happened ? Can you find out more about his experiences sailing the boat and how it performed ? Did it live up to his expectations of how it would sail and handle or was he disappointed and did not think it was suitable for sailing to New Zealand ?
It would also be nice to have some followup reports and sailing photos from other owners of Harryproa's. There seams to be a lot of reports and links to owners during construction but the reports seam to abruptly stop as soon as the boats are launched ! Perhaps a friendly letter from you or Rob to the current owners of Harryproa's requesting feedback on the boats and
pictures or movies would help.
George Kuck
Chestertown, MD
mark@... wrote:
Bain mentioned the other day he is planning on some sailing photos soon as he is putting the boat up for sale . He needs cash for another enterprise (non boat). Another well known member of this group is seriously interested. I understand the price is yet to be determined.
-----Original Message----- From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 8:11 PM To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au Subject: [harryproa] Re: Bain's Harry
-I was looking at the pics of Bain's Harry and was once again impressed by the simplicity and elegance of the boat. When will we have some sailing pics? Robert
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
Bain mentioned the other day he is planning on some sailing photos soon as he is putting the boat up for sale . He needs cash for another enterprise (non boat). Another well known member of this group is seriously interested. I understand the price is yet to be determined.
-----Original Message----- From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 8:11 PM To: harryproa@... Subject: [harryproa] Re: Bain's Harry
-I was looking at the pics of Bain's Harry and was once again impressed by the simplicity and elegance of the boat. When will we have some sailing pics? Robert
It is glassed down to near enough the start of the turn of the bilge. We are looking at options to get the normal harry shape with as little effort as possible.
Bain has been sailing, is apparently happy with the boat, but getting pictures off boat has not proved any easier than it has on Rare Bird, or Blind Date for that matter, which is regularly out in Holland.
How much of the hull is glassed before the torture. I was wondering if
most of the outside could be glassed initially for the leeward hull as
there isn't as much complex curvature.
The use of the blow up bag certainly spreads the stress nicely.
Robert
RObert--- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney"
<harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> No reason why not. The time it takes to set it up has to be compared the
> time it saves. On small hulls with light laminates, it is probably not
> worth the effort, particularly on the inside, where bagging the bow is
> tricky. The bigger the hull, the more sense it makes.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
>
> On 8/23/07, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
> >
> > -can you resin infuse the below waterline glassing?
> > Robert
> > -- In harryproa@...
<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>, "Rob
> > Denney" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > The foam held it's shape. In fact, it was possible to apply a bit of
> > > downwards force to the gunwhale and get even more round in the bilge
> > before
> > > it was glassed.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > On 8/22/07, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello Rob,
> > > >
> > > > How did you glass the inside with the bag holding the shape and in
> > > > the way, or did the foam hold it's shape on it's own after sitting
> > > > overnight ?
> > > >
> > > > George Kuck
> > > > Chestertown, MD
> > > >
> > > > -- In harryproa@...
<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au><harryproa%40yahoog
> > roups.com.au>,
> > > > "proaharry" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > G'day,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have posted some photos that Mark took of the windward
hull being
> > > > > built. Pretty incredible. Derek has managed to get a compound
> > > > curve
> > > > > from the flat foam panels, in a similar way to tortured ply.
> > > > > Differences are that the foam can be much thicker (we used
12mm/half
> > > > > inch, could have been any thickness), more compounding can be
> > > > achieved
> > > > > as the foam will stretch and it is quicker and easier. The
hull was
> > > > > glassed inside below the waterline the following day, and
outside
> > > > > below the waterline the day after. The deck is being infused
> > > > > tomorrow. The cabin and other bits the following day.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Rob
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
-I was looking at the pics of Bain's Harry and was once again
impressed by the simplicity and elegance of the boat. When will we
have some sailing pics?
Robert
How much of the hull is glassed before the torture. I was wondering if
most of the outside could be glassed initially for the leeward hull as
there isn't as much complex curvature.
The use of the blow up bag certainly spreads the stress nicely.
Robert
RObert--- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney"
<harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> No reason why not. The time it takes to set it up has to be compared the
> time it saves. On small hulls with light laminates, it is probably not
> worth the effort, particularly on the inside, where bagging the bow is
> tricky. The bigger the hull, the more sense it makes.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
>
> On 8/23/07, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
> >
> > -can you resin infuse the below waterline glassing?
> > Robert
> > -- In harryproa@...
<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>, "Rob
> > Denney" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > The foam held it's shape. In fact, it was possible to apply a bit of
> > > downwards force to the gunwhale and get even more round in the bilge
> > before
> > > it was glassed.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > On 8/22/07, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello Rob,
> > > >
> > > > How did you glass the inside with the bag holding the shape and in
> > > > the way, or did the foam hold it's shape on it's own after sitting
> > > > overnight ?
> > > >
> > > > George Kuck
> > > > Chestertown, MD
> > > >
> > > > -- In harryproa@...
<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au><harryproa%40yahoog
> > roups.com.au>,
> > > > "proaharry" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > G'day,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have posted some photos that Mark took of the windward
hull being
> > > > > built. Pretty incredible. Derek has managed to get a compound
> > > > curve
> > > > > from the flat foam panels, in a similar way to tortured ply.
> > > > > Differences are that the foam can be much thicker (we used
12mm/half
> > > > > inch, could have been any thickness), more compounding can be
> > > > achieved
> > > > > as the foam will stretch and it is quicker and easier. The
hull was
> > > > > glassed inside below the waterline the following day, and
outside
> > > > > below the waterline the day after. The deck is being infused
> > > > > tomorrow. The cabin and other bits the following day.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Rob
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
No reason why not. The time it takes to set it up has to be compared the time it saves. On small hulls with light laminates, it is probably not worth the effort, particularly on the inside, where bagging the bow is tricky. The bigger the hull, the more sense it makes.
-can you resin infuse the below waterline glassing?
Robert
-- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> The foam held it's shape. In fact, it was possible to apply a bit of
> downwards force to the gunwhale and get even more round in the bilge
before
> it was glassed.
>
> regards,
> Rob
>
> On 8/22/07, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Rob,
> >
> > How did you glass the inside with the bag holding the shape and in
> > the way, or did the foam hold it's shape on it's own after sitting
> > overnight ?
> >
> > George Kuck
> > Chestertown, MD
> >
> > -- In harryproa@... <harryproa%40yahoog
roups.com.au>,
> > "proaharry" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > I have posted some photos that Mark took of the windward hull being
> > > built. Pretty incredible. Derek has managed to get a compound
> > curve
> > > from the flat foam panels, in a similar way to tortured ply.
> > > Differences are that the foam can be much thicker (we used 12mm/half
> > > inch, could have been any thickness), more compounding can be
> > achieved
> > > as the foam will stretch and it is quicker and easier. The hull was
> > > glassed inside below the waterline the following day, and outside
> > > below the waterline the day after. The deck is being infused
> > > tomorrow. The cabin and other bits the following day.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Rob
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
-can you resin infuse the below waterline glassing?
Robert
-- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> The foam held it's shape. In fact, it was possible to apply a bit of
> downwards force to the gunwhale and get even more round in the bilge
before
> it was glassed.
>
> regards,
> Rob
>
> On 8/22/07, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Rob,
> >
> > How did you glass the inside with the bag holding the shape and in
> > the way, or did the foam hold it's shape on it's own after sitting
> > overnight ?
> >
> > George Kuck
> > Chestertown, MD
> >
> > -- In harryproa@... <harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>,
> > "proaharry" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > I have posted some photos that Mark took of the windward hull being
> > > built. Pretty incredible. Derek has managed to get a compound
> > curve
> > > from the flat foam panels, in a similar way to tortured ply.
> > > Differences are that the foam can be much thicker (we used 12mm/half
> > > inch, could have been any thickness), more compounding can be
> > achieved
> > > as the foam will stretch and it is quicker and easier. The hull was
> > > glassed inside below the waterline the following day, and outside
> > > below the waterline the day after. The deck is being infused
> > > tomorrow. The cabin and other bits the following day.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Rob
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
The foam held it's shape. In fact, it was possible to apply a bit of downwards force to the gunwhale and get even more round in the bilge before it was glassed.
How did you glass the inside with the bag holding the shape and in
the way, or did the foam hold it's shape on it's own after sitting
overnight ?
George Kuck
Chestertown, MD
-- In harryproa@..., "proaharry" <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> I have posted some photos that Mark took of the windward hull being
> built. Pretty incredible. Derek has managed to get a compound
curve
> from the flat foam panels, in a similar way to tortured ply.
> Differences are that the foam can be much thicker (we used 12mm/half
> inch, could have been any thickness), more compounding can be
achieved
> as the foam will stretch and it is quicker and easier. The hull was
> glassed inside below the waterline the following day, and outside
> below the waterline the day after. The deck is being infused
> tomorrow. The cabin and other bits the following day.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
-----Original Message----- From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of proaharry Sent: Wednesday, 22 August 2007 11:48 PM To: harryproa@... Subject: [harryproa] Solitarry windward hull construction
G'day,
I have posted some photos that Mark took of the windward hull being built. Pretty incredible. Derek has managed to get a compound curve from the flat foam panels, in a similar way to tortured ply. Differences are that the foam can be much thicker (we used 12mm/half inch, could have been any thickness), more compounding can be achieved as the foam will stretch and it is quicker and easier. The hull was glassed inside below the waterline the following day, and outside below the waterline the day after. The deck is being infused tomorrow. The cabin and other bits the following day.
Hello Rob,
How did you glass the inside with the bag holding the shape and in
the way, or did the foam hold it's shape on it's own after sitting
overnight ?
George Kuck
Chestertown, MD
-- In harryproa@..., "proaharry" <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> I have posted some photos that Mark took of the windward hull being
> built. Pretty incredible. Derek has managed to get a compound
curve
> from the flat foam panels, in a similar way to tortured ply.
> Differences are that the foam can be much thicker (we used 12mm/half
> inch, could have been any thickness), more compounding can be
achieved
> as the foam will stretch and it is quicker and easier. The hull was
> glassed inside below the waterline the following day, and outside
> below the waterline the day after. The deck is being infused
> tomorrow. The cabin and other bits the following day.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
G'day,
I have posted some photos that Mark took of the windward hull being
built. Pretty incredible. Derek has managed to get a compound curve
from the flat foam panels, in a similar way to tortured ply.
Differences are that the foam can be much thicker (we used 12mm/half
inch, could have been any thickness), more compounding can be achieved
as the foam will stretch and it is quicker and easier. The hull was
glassed inside below the waterline the following day, and outside
below the waterline the day after. The deck is being infused
tomorrow. The cabin and other bits the following day.
Regards,
Rob
Agree that half a degree of pitch is extraordinary at 15 knots for a double ended boat with central rig.
I'm not sure of the relationship between speed and drag (suspect it is at least a square, possibly a cube), but a large portion of it is the rudders, so can be reduced when reefed or off the wind by lifting the front one.
I guess the
question of what lifts first can be calculated, but no idea how. Has a lot to do with point of sail (offwind the stern will lift first, beating, the ww hull will) and wave direction.
a rough calculation gives less than half a degree pitch. (working on 2 inches up at the stern and 2 inches down at the bow gives 10cm over 15m or 1 in 150) At 15 knots is extraordinary. Depending on the relationship between resistance and speed gives in the order of only a couple of degrees pitch at 25 knots. How many deegrees before
the stern leaves the water? Is it possible to do the calculations of which goes first with full sail up, the stern leaves the water or the ww hull leaves the water . I realise that you would have to have a much stiffer mast for this to happen on Vis. On the trans pac clearly you would be flying a hull first Robert --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...> wrote: > > G'day, > > Don't be fooled by the reverse sheer and the spray washing over the bows. > It is nowhere near it's limits, in fact, it has barely immersed the bow past > the waterline. Harrys have huge amounts of buoyancy in the bows due to > their prismatic coefficient (a measure of buoyancy distribution) of 0.8. > Most cats are in the 0.6-0.65 range. With the rounded decks and nothing to > slow the boat
(fore beam, trampoline, forestays, etc) it goes through waves > very easily. > > Not sure if you mean heel or pitch. Some of both are inevitable. As the > lee hull waterline at the bow is just out of sight and at the stern a couple > of inches are showing, I would estimate a couple of degrees of heel, and > less of pitch. The absence of heel is confirmed by the angle of the > stainless lifeline against the horizon. Mark reckons it pitches and heels > less than any boat he has ever been on. > > The video is indeed sedate seas. Not much we could do about that. In > bigger seas, my experience with my boats is that they go through waves with > no noticable effect (ie, you do not feel the boat slowing). This boat is > bigger and heavier, may have even less effect. What is noticable on my > boats, and to a lesser extent on Rare Bird, is that waves hitting
the rudder > cases do noticably slow the boat. Only happens at high speeds, with large > waves and is caused by the cases, rather than the brackets, and it has been > addressed in later designs. It is evidenced by the creww feeling a small > jerk each time it hits a large wave. As you can see by looking at the > passengers, there is none of this. > > The rudder brackets have so far proven to be plenty strong enough to take > the loads, including running aground at speed with the wooden sheer pin > replaced with a large steel bolt, causing case damage. > > In 25 knots with big seas? Time will tell, but on all my prototypes, it has > not been a problem. There are not many cruisers that sail consistently and > comfortably at 15 knots, much less higher speeds. Rare Bird has punched > through a wave that washed items off the boom (>10' off the
water) while > crossing the bar, with no ill effects. > > Great that you have advanced from "no good at all speeds" to "good at 15 > knots wind, 15 knots boat speed", and I appreciate your ability to accept > evidence. I look forward to convincing you about the next step. > > regards, > > Rob > > > On 8/9/07, Todd <bitme1234@...> wrote: > > > > No I don't think a flared bow would be any better.It would be worse. > > The boat doesn't look to be sailing flat. It looks to me to be > > heeled 5 to 7 degrees maybe more in the video. To me the leeward > > hull just seems to shallow at the ends. In the 1 metre swell the bow > > is punch through on a few all most buried. The video shows pretty > > sedate sea state and the boat looks all ready to be pushing its > > limits with the leeward hull low in
the water. Along with the > > appendage attachments. Load of rudders horizontally and vertical in > > proper trim but what about at speed, 20knots being pounded > > vertically hour after hour. In and out wave after wave? > > > > Good at 15 knot winds 15 knot boat speed but what at 20 to 25 knots > > in lumper seas? > > > > Todd > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au <harryproa% 40yahoogroups.com.au>, > > "Robert" <cateran1949@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The boat looks as though it is riding pretty flat to me . With 3m > > > swell I am assuming the bow will simply punch into it and gently > > rise > > > without any violent hobby horsing. The flat
ride should keep the > > sails > > > working better than with violent motion of a flared bow bouncing > > off > > > waves I can't think of any small boat that would not be pretty wet > > in > > > the same circumstances. The braces are designed to take the loads > > of > > > the rudders. Shock loads from the braces hitting the top of the > > wave > > > is nothing compared to loads from the rudders, > > > Robert > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au <harryproa% 40yahoogroups.com.au >, > > "Todd" <bitme1234@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
<harryproa% 40yahoogroups.com.au>, > > "Todd" <bitme1234@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello Rob and folks, (sorry about that) > > > > > > > > > > Nice video, impressive. But;) Looks like 1 metre swell > > possible in > > > > > 15 knot winds for a boat speed of 15knots . Marshall Island > > Walap > > > > > will do that. What about 25 knot winds in 3 metre swell? Looks > > as > > > > > throught the bow is pretty close to the edge in 15 knots. As > > far > > > > as > > > > > all out performance pushing the boat to the limits what is > > known? > > > > > > > > > > What about the braces for the weather boards, how much abuse > >
will > > > > > they handle being punched from underneath or swist from > > changing > > > > > angle of attacks in certain situations. The bottom brace seems > > > > > really close to the water surface. > > > > > > > > > > Todd > > > > > > > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au <harryproa% 40yahoogroups.com.au>, > > "Rob Denney" <harryproa@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > G'day, > > > > > > > > > > > > My Harry did 15 in 15 with lousy sails, but not much > > interior, > > > > so > > > > > probably > > > >
> > pretty similar. Blind Date will be faster than Rare Bird as > > it > > > > is > > > > > lighter, > > > > > > has less windage and a stiffer mast. Rare Bird's sails also > > > > need > > > > > some work, > > > > > > it has not realised it's full potential yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only real difference in a Harry is whether you have the > > > > > cockpit cover or > > > > > > not. Bain has it and it works well. I prefer to feel the > > > > breeze, > > > > > so the > > > > > > solo boat will have a pram type fold up cloth cover over > > part of > > > > > the cockpit > > > > > > for keeping out of the rain and wind. > > > > >
> > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/8/07, George Kuck <chesapeake410@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How will the 12m (40') Harry (built with the KSS > > method) > > > > > performance > > > > > > > compare to Rare Earth or Blind Date ? Will it have > > > > a "cruiser" > > > > > or "sport" > > > > > > > version option or be a compromise between the two ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George Kuck > > > > > > > Chestertown, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Robert <cateran1949@>* wrote: > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > It is pretty impressive for such a comfortable boat. Even > > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > extra weight it is still pretty light compared to most > > > > > multihulls of > > > > > > > similar length, > > > > > > > \ Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au<harryproa% 40yahoogroups.com.au><harryproa% > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com.au >, Mike > > > > > > > Crawford <jmichael@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > Fifteen knots in fifteen knots of wind? In Rare Bird? > > Holy > > > > > moly! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research > > > > Panel > > > > > today! > > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48517/*http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/y > > > > > ahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Thanks for the nice words and the excellent marketing suggestion. It is possible Mark will get some more film after the workshop (I live 2,000 miles away), although as he doesn't own it, this may not include any more sailing pics.
You are definitely correct about me needing to get out more! Unfortunately it is mid winter here and as usual there is nothing on tv, so I post to the forums. As we don't advertise, this is the only way to publicise the boats. 7,000 people viewing the video, and no negative feedback so far suggests it is working, although as we have not been inundated with orders, we obviously have a lot more to do.
Great video, but we want more! Take a break from all the posting on the sailing boards, borrow a powerboat, and follow that Visionarry around while she sails. That wild spaceship of yours has got to look really cool slipping along with no heel and little pitching. Probably looks scary to somebody being caught up to and passed by like standing still.
Show her shunting, anchoring, docking, people sunbathing on deck, making sandwiches in the galley, sticking heads out the hatches, jumping off the deck with snorkel gear. Do that marketing thang.
Hey Rob,
Great video, but we want more! Take a break from all the posting on the sailing
boards,
borrow a powerboat, and follow that Visionarry around while she sails. That wild
spaceship of
yours has got to look really cool slipping along with no heel and little
pitching. Probably
looks scary to somebody being caught up to and passed by like standing still.
Show her shunting, anchoring, docking, people sunbathing on deck, making
sandwiches in
the galley, sticking heads out the hatches, jumping off the deck with snorkel
gear. Do that
marketing thang.
Charlie Magee
Rob Denney wrote:
> G'day,
> I was on board, but managed to sleep through the 27 knots!
-------------------------------
Just as I slept through the 26 you achieved on your watch.
------------------------------
> The following was written by a TRT owner on Sailing Anarchy's cruising forum
> about his TRT 12m GT, which is a performance cruising cat very much in the
> same vein as XL2
>
> Quote
> The Seawind 1000 is a good choice. I was out on a friend's 1000 last
> weekend. Very comfortable for 6 people daysailing and anchoring for lunch.
> Wind speeds where around 15 knots with flat seas and we were seeing boat
> speeds in the 6 to high 7's range under working sail. Note: we had 80
> gallons of water in the tanks and 30 gallons of fuel along with 6 adults.
>
> In the same conditions the TRT would have been doing 10 - 12 with a single
> reef in the main and a 120 jib... end quote
--------------------------------------
Yes, top speed is largely irrelevent. What does matter is how fast you
go for a given set of conditions (wind speed and waves).
15 knots of wind and 'flat seas' giving the SW 1000 7 knots and the TRT
12 knots, I assume sailing to windward. Then if Rare Bird can do 15 it
is looking very good, not so much for top speed but for efficiency.
With a more efficient set of sails and perhaps a stiffer mast and a
little less gear on board perhaps we might see 18 in 15?
Who cares what the top speed might be, if you can do 18 in 15 and
maintain that sortof ratio (9 in 7.5, 6 in 5 etc.) you are going to win
races.
PN
I was on board, but managed to sleep through the 27 knots!
The following was written by a TRT owner on Sailing Anarchy's cruising forum about his TRT 12m GT, which is a performance cruising cat very much in the same vein as XL2
Quote
The Seawind 1000 is a good choice. I was out on a friend's 1000 last weekend. Very comfortable for 6 people daysailing and anchoring for lunch. Wind speeds where around 15 knots with flat seas and we were seeing boat speeds in the 6 to high 7's range under working sail. Note: we had 80 gallons of water in the tanks and 30 gallons of fuel along with 6 adults.
In the same conditions the TRT would have been doing 10 - 12 with a single reef in the main and a 120 jib... end quote
Seems a bit tame to me, but still an interesting comparison between these boats and Rare Bird in the video
> Top speeds? Who knows, but they are a lot higher than I thought they > were > before seeing the video. Rare Bird's mast could be stiffer and the > sails > could be improved significantly. Lift a rudder on a broad reach and > it would hit 20 pretty easily, and Blind Date should not have much > trouble > doing 25 based on the weight difference. Add some waves and a crew in > a > hurry and who knows what the top speed might be. Hope I am on board > the day > we find out!!
----------------------------------------- In the real world top speed is limited by hull length. XL2 at 38' appears to have a top speed of 27 knots (Rob was on board when we did it in 1993). My estimate is a 40' hull can do 30 knots and a 50' hull can do 35 knots. What is more significant is how easily the vessel can achieve its top speed or something near it. XL2 (catamaran) can very easily exceed 20, often gets to 25 but only once achieved an instantaneous 27.4.
A 50' lee hull should have a top speed around 35 and the harryproa configuration should make it fairly easy to get up there close to the max. Rob will want to be up there but I imagine most harryproa owners will be happy to frequently hit 25. PN
Mark and his son had been living and working on it for 5 days, so food and tools and usual gear would have been onboard. Near enough cruising trim. How much more powerful? Depends on what you want. For most cruisers 15 in 15 is ample. It could probably handle another 30-40% of sail to be compromised. Depends also on the stiffness of the mast, which is a variable that can be set before launching.
Whats the windward hull load capacity. In the video is Rare Bird at cruising trim or light?
How much more powerfull could it get before compromise?
Todd
-- In
harryproa@..., "Todd" <bitme1234@...> wrote: > I wonder was the boat > loaded or light for the short trip? > > > Todd > > > --- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <harryproa@> > wrote: > >
> > On 8/10/07, Todd <bitme1234@> wrote: > > > > > > Sure the reverse sheer is something to get used to. .8 pc is > pretty > > > great. Looks to me the bow gets depressed a few inches from the > top > > > towards the end of the video clip. I like the piercing ability. > Just > > > looks low on the water over all. I counted 12 times on the video > of
> > > the rear rudder brace stuffing in the waves before camera panned > > > away. > > > > > Obviously the rudder set up is draggier than if it was in the hull. > > However, the advantages of no holes in the hull, kicking up, > lifting up, > > seeing when weed is on it, outweigh the little bit of extra drag, > for > > cruising. Solitarry has the rudders on the beams. If this works > as well as
> > it does on Elementarry, we will look at putting them on all the > bigger > > boats. > > > > > > > > I was referring to 5 to 7degrees of heeling or more and with the > > > leeward hull allready buried the boat seemed to be almost at its > > > limit. Pitching is not what i'm looking for . My opinion with > proas > > > you can over power a hull with out great pitching right to the > edge > > > then oops over you go. > > > > > > > I find there is a fair bit of time before flying a hull becomes a > capsize. > > It is difficult to tell, but the windward hull looks to be showing > about > > 6"/150mm of antifouling, of which about 2"/50mm is boottop. That > hull draws > > 12"/300mm so there is a fair bot to go before it flies. > > > > > > > I'd like to see them with out exterior appendages and sit a > little > > > higher in the water at speed. > > > > > > > Me too on the appendages, wait till you see Solitarry! Sitting > higher just > > means more windage, assuming it is not burying the bow. Be > interesting to > > find out where the limits lie. Latest A class cats have bows > which come to > > a point at the waterline, when viewed from the side. Apparently > they are > > doing well. > > > > Rolling? No different to a similar size cat. Need to try it out > in some > > big beam seas, but no reason why it should be a problem.
> > > > Regards, > > Rob > > >
In my reality the righting moment would have to be there before the
length.
Just experience with proas tell me that with a relativly light high
volume leeward hull the speed and comfort would be dependent on
weight to windward 40l/60w . Which would effect ride height and
speed with out the weight no power excessive heel. More weight to
windward less heel more power / driving force. Seems pretty basic .
Maybe the majority is happy just assuming its performnce. Lot of
comparison with catamarans. I think its a totally different beast.
Won't really bother posting anymore, wish granted. Don't really know
who's fleecing who anymore. Nice way to go and do busniess.
Todd
--- In harryproa@..., Paul Nudd <paulnudd@...> wrote:
>
> Quoting Rob Denney <harryproa@...>:
>
> > Top speeds? Who knows, but they are a lot higher than I thought
they
> > were
> > before seeing the video. Rare Bird's mast could be stiffer and
the
> > sails
> > could be improved significantly. Lift a rudder on a broad reach
and
> > it would hit 20 pretty easily, and Blind Date should not have
much
> > trouble
> > doing 25 based on the weight difference. Add some waves and a
crew in
> > a
> > hurry and who knows what the top speed might be. Hope I am on
board
> > the day
> > we find out!!
> -----------------------------------------
> In the real world top speed is limited by hull length.
> XL2 at 38' appears to have a top speed of 27 knots (Rob was on
board
> when we did it in 1993).
> My estimate is a 40' hull can do 30 knots and a 50' hull can do 35
knots.
> What is more significant is how easily the vessel can achieve its
top
> speed or something near it.
> XL2 (catamaran) can very easily exceed 20, often gets to 25 but
only
> once achieved an instantaneous 27.4.
> A 50' lee hull should have a top speed around 35 and the harryproa
> configuration should make it fairly easy to get up there close to
the max.
> Rob will want to be up there but I imagine most harryproa owners
will be
> happy to frequently hit 25.
> PN
>
Quoting Rob Denney <harryproa@...>:
> Top speeds? Who knows, but they are a lot higher than I thought they
> were
> before seeing the video. Rare Bird's mast could be stiffer and the
> sails
> could be improved significantly. Lift a rudder on a broad reach and
> it would hit 20 pretty easily, and Blind Date should not have much
> trouble
> doing 25 based on the weight difference. Add some waves and a crew in
> a
> hurry and who knows what the top speed might be. Hope I am on board
> the day
> we find out!!
-----------------------------------------
In the real world top speed is limited by hull length.
XL2 at 38' appears to have a top speed of 27 knots (Rob was on board
when we did it in 1993).
My estimate is a 40' hull can do 30 knots and a 50' hull can do 35 knots.
What is more significant is how easily the vessel can achieve its top
speed or something near it.
XL2 (catamaran) can very easily exceed 20, often gets to 25 but only
once achieved an instantaneous 27.4.
A 50' lee hull should have a top speed around 35 and the harryproa
configuration should make it fairly easy to get up there close to the max.
Rob will want to be up there but I imagine most harryproa owners will be
happy to frequently hit 25.
PN
Whats the windward hull load capacity. In the video is Rare Bird at
cruising trim or light?
How much more powerfull could it get before compromise?
Todd
-- In harryproa@..., "Todd" <bitme1234@...> wrote:
>
I wonder was the boat
> loaded or light for the short trip?
>
>
> Todd
>
>
> --- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <harryproa@>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 8/10/07, Todd <bitme1234@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sure the reverse sheer is something to get used to. .8 pc is
> pretty
> > > great. Looks to me the bow gets depressed a few inches from
the
> top
> > > towards the end of the video clip. I like the piercing
ability.
> Just
> > > looks low on the water over all. I counted 12 times on the
video
> of
> > > the rear rudder brace stuffing in the waves before camera
panned
> > > away.
> > >
> > Obviously the rudder set up is draggier than if it was in the
hull.
> > However, the advantages of no holes in the hull, kicking up,
> lifting up,
> > seeing when weed is on it, outweigh the little bit of extra
drag,
> for
> > cruising. Solitarry has the rudders on the beams. If this
works
> as well as
> > it does on Elementarry, we will look at putting them on all the
> bigger
> > boats.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was referring to 5 to 7degrees of heeling or more and with
the
> > > leeward hull allready buried the boat seemed to be almost at
its
> > > limit. Pitching is not what i'm looking for . My opinion with
> proas
> > > you can over power a hull with out great pitching right to the
> edge
> > > then oops over you go.
> > >
> >
> > I find there is a fair bit of time before flying a hull becomes
a
> capsize.
> > It is difficult to tell, but the windward hull looks to be
showing
> about
> > 6"/150mm of antifouling, of which about 2"/50mm is boottop.
That
> hull draws
> > 12"/300mm so there is a fair bot to go before it flies.
> >
> >
> > > I'd like to see them with out exterior appendages and sit a
> little
> > > higher in the water at speed.
> > >
> >
> > Me too on the appendages, wait till you see Solitarry! Sitting
> higher just
> > means more windage, assuming it is not burying the bow. Be
> interesting to
> > find out where the limits lie. Latest A class cats have bows
> which come to
> > a point at the waterline, when viewed from the side. Apparently
> they are
> > doing well.
> >
> > Rolling? No different to a similar size cat. Need to try it
out
> in some
> > big beam seas, but no reason why it should be a problem.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob
> >
>
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