Rob:
I was looking at your world map and it occurred to me that a Tropical
Harry Proa would be a great design for the caribbean charter business.
With the new building method maybe there is a market for inter-island
charter or even home building for those wanting to sail from the US
into the Caribbean.  With the first baby boomer filing for retirement
benefits - the market for the typical 2 years Caribbean cruise market
is going to get crowded. For the most part people will buy a poject
Monohull on the 48 - 45 ft range for about $40K - $60K and they refit
it with another $20K of materials prior to their first jump to the
Bahamas.

I bet you if you can redesign your harry to have airy accomodations
and keep the cost and time of building down using the KSS method, you
can probably start the proa boom in the USA.

It's beautiful Rob! Congratulations. You must be thrilled after all the years of
hard work.

Charlie

http://www.zeilenmetvisie.nl/NL/onderZeil.html  sorry.

rob

On 10/19/07, Mike Crawford <jmichael@gwi.net> wrote:

  The video is great -- thanks for posting the link.  It's wonderful to see the big proas finally on the water.

  Can you repost the link for the sailing pictures?  The http://mail.google.com/mail/ link didn't lead anywhere.

       - Mike


Rob Denney wrote:

G'day,

Apologies for cross posting. 
There is a video of Blind Date  (first 15m/50' harryproa launched) sailing in Holland at http://www.zeilenmetvisie.nl/NL/onderZeilFlash.html  
This is the boat built to take blind people sailing.  

There are some saliing pctures at http://mail.google.com/mail/ including one of the instruments showing 8 knots in 8 knots apparent.

regards,

rob

__________________________________________________
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G'day,

Apologies for cross posting. 
There is a video of Blind Date  (first 15m/50' harryproa launched) sailing in Holland at http://www.zeilenmetvisie.nl/NL/onderZeilFlash.html  
This is the boat built to take blind people sailing.  

There are some saliing pctures at http://mail.google.com/mail/ including one of the instruments showing 8 knots in 8 knots apparent.

regards,

rob

Very, very nice - although the miusic made me want to tear my ears off. Some
performance stats would be interesting!

Mike

--- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Apologies for cross posting.
> There is a video of Blind Date  (first 15m/50' harryproa launched) sailing
> in Holland at http://www.zeilenmetvisie.nl/NL/onderZeilFlash.html
> This is the boat built to take blind people sailing.
>
> There are some saliing pctures at http://mail.google.com/mail/ including one
> of the instruments showing 8 knots in 8 knots apparent.
>
> regards,
>
> rob
>

Do you need a table to be longer than the hull, Or are you doing the
50 foot hull in sections? Can you do it in section before final
assembly?

On harrys built so far, how do they behave on a mooring?

Todd
--- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...>
wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Hulls are not quite finished, lee hull needs the mast step, deck
bearing and
> beam mounts, will weigh under 200 kgs/440 lbs when all this is
on.  Now that
> we kjnoe how it is done, the next one will be lighter.     ww hull
needs the
> cantilevered bunks and decks glued on.  These are complete and
have deck
> edge radii, which makes the joining very simple.  No idea of the
weight,
> should be 140 kgs308 lbs complete.
>
> ww hull is 450 db glass either side of 10mm foam, lee hull similar
with
> extra glass where required.
>
> Vacuuming onto male moulds would be possible, but first you have
to build
> the male moulds, which have to be fair and airtight.  The core has
to be
> bogged on to the cured inner laminate and the outer laminate needs
fairing
> and painting.  It is not possible with just stations.  I have
built hulls
> using pretty much every technique in common use, and KSS is by far
the
> quickest, especially if you already have the table.
>
> I would give a lot for a sail off between any two harrys.  We do
not own
> Rare Bird, so cannot sail it, and I am not sure what is happening
with
> Aroha.   Blind Date is apparently sailing regularly and taking the
partially
> sighted sailing, but that is not much help for a sail off.
>
> regards,
>
> rob
>
> On 10/5/07, Todd <bitme1234@...> wrote:
> >
> >   Whats the weight of the finished hulls?
> > What was the build up of outer skin?
> > Why not vacuum form the hull onto male molds? Is that possible
with
> > just stations? Wouldn't this be easier all together?
> >
> > When do we get to see a sail off visionary against haragami
Aroha?
> >
> > Todd
> > --- In harryproa@... <harryproa%
40yahoogroups.com.au>, "Rob
> > Denney" <harryproa@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > The hulls are more or less completed (see photos in the photo
> > section), but
> > > cannot be finished until we know the mast and beam specs. The
> > rudder
> > > shafts are built. The rig and beams are waiting for the
> > engineering to be
> > > completed and for the carbon to arrive. The carbon has been
> > delayed and
> > > will not be here till next month. October launching won't
happen,
> > nor will
> > > Sydney Hobart this year. Still aiming for solo Transpac next
> > year, but I
> > > have some ill family in the UK which may necessitate a month
there
> > round
> > > Xmas, which is prime building time.
> > >
> > > So, unusually for me :-) the schedule has been blown away, and
i
> > am not sure
> > > what will happen, nor when.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > On 10/2/07, pkeck2 <pkeck2@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Rob,
> > > >
> > > > Any updates on Soliatarry?
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

Whats the weight of the finished hulls?
What was the build up of outer skin?
Why not vacuum form the hull onto male molds? Is that possible with
just stations?  Wouldn't this be easier all together?

When do we get to see a sail off visionary against haragami Aroha?

Todd
--- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...>
wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> The hulls are more or less completed (see photos in the photo
section), but
> cannot be finished until we know the mast and beam specs.   The
rudder
> shafts are built.   The rig and beams are waiting for the
engineering to be
> completed and for the carbon to arrive.  The carbon has been
delayed and
> will not be here till next month.  October launching won't happen,
nor will
> Sydney Hobart this year.  Still aiming for solo Transpac next
year, but I
> have some ill family in the UK which may necessitate a month there
round
> Xmas, which is prime building time.
>
> So, unusually for me :-) the schedule has been blown away, and i
am not sure
> what will happen, nor when.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
>
> On 10/2/07, pkeck2 <pkeck2@...> wrote:
> >
> >   Rob,
> >
> > Any updates on Soliatarry?
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
>

Rob,

Any updates on Soliatarry?

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of Peter Southwood
Sent: Friday, 28 September 2007 4:04 PM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: harryproa ww hul infision photos

Hi Mark. This makes a lot of sense.

Was the exterior layup after inflation done by infusion too? If so were there any problems in the contact areas with the external framing?

Cheers,

Peter

----- Original Message -----

From: mark@harryproa.com

To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 12:42 AM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: harryproa ww hul infision photos

The hulls are infused flat on the table both sides. The foam is glassed down to the waterline on the outside but less than this on the inside. This gives a bit of compounding to the topsides. They are then stitched together at the join in such a way that the join line can 'hinge'. A simple frame is set up and a bag inflated inside so that the unglassed foam is expanded evenly creating a compound shape hull. This of course requires the foam to be tortured which it is able to do. We used Klegecell H80 10mm thick but a more compliant foam such as Airex would work better below the waterline.

 

When the hull has been inflated the sides are pulled down into the frame to maintain the shape. Amazingly the bag can be deflated and the shape mostly held but it does lose some of it's compounding around the bows. We experimented using various objects pushed down in the bows to give different shapes but leaving the bag inflated is the best. The hull is then glassed on the outside to hold the shape, then inside.

 

We got a bit gung ho pulling the hull sides down in the frames and broke the foam. It split nearly the whole length. This was repaired by deflating, laying the panels flat on the table again and joining the split with hot glue. This worked fairly well but did give a slight 'chine" at the split which had to be sanded out. The fun of being the first to try something new. With a bit more experience and Airex below the waterline it could well be the way to go for amateur builders.

 

Mark

 

 

...................................

Mark Stephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Todd
Sent: Friday, 28 September 2007 3:48 AM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Re: harryproa ww hul infision photos

Hi Rob,

I don't get it. Are you laying up the panels then basically just
bending them to the form? What maintains the shape of the hull after
bladder is deflated? Is the bottom half below water line not resin
infused and bagged or hand layed after form is achieved to maintain
shape? What thickness of foam are you using . What desnsity is it
somthing comparable to h80 h100. Could the half hull form be bent
during the infusion process instead? Or does this just complicate
the process. Whats the weight of the ww hull when finished?

Todd
&THE GUY NEXT DOOR...

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...>
wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Apologies for cross posting.
>
> I have added a couple more photos to the Solitarry ww hull
workshop #2
> photos page at
http://au.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/photos/browse/598e
>
>
> They show work done after the workshop on the deck panels.
Infusing in this
> way is not recommended as the set up time is far too long. Better
to infuse
> full panels, then cut out the required pieces.
>
> Any questions, please ask.
>
> regards,
>
> rob
>

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1034 - Release Date: 2007/09/27 05:00 PM

----- Original Message -----

From: mark@...

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 12:42 AM

Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: harryproa ww hul infision photos

The hulls are infused flat on the table both sides. The foam is glassed down to the waterline on the outside but less than this on the inside. This gives a bit of compounding to the topsides. They are then stitched together at the join in such a way that the join line can 'hinge'. A simple frame is set up and a bag inflated inside so that the unglassed foam is expanded evenly creating a compound shape hull. This of course requires the foam to be tortured which it is able to do. We used Klegecell H80 10mm thick but a more compliant foam such as Airex would work better below the waterline.

 

When the hull has been inflated the sides are pulled down into the frame to maintain the shape. Amazingly the bag can be deflated and the shape mostly held but it does lose some of it's compounding around the bows. We experimented using various objects pushed down in the bows to give different shapes but leaving the bag inflated is the best. The hull is then glassed on the outside to hold the shape, then inside.

 

We got a bit gung ho pulling the hull sides down in the frames and broke the foam. It split nearly the whole length. This was repaired by deflating, laying the panels flat on the table again and joining the split with hot glue. This worked fairly well but did give a slight 'chine" at the split which had to be sanded out. The fun of being the first to try something new. With a bit more experience and Airex below the waterline it could well be the way to go for amateur builders.

 

Mark

 

 

...................................

Mark Stephens

www.harryproa.com

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Todd
Sent: Friday, 28 September 2007 3:48 AM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [harryproa] Re: harryproa ww hul infision photos

Hi Rob,

I don't get it. Are you laying up the panels then basically just
bending them to the form? What maintains the shape of the hull after
bladder is deflated? Is the bottom half below water line not resin
infused and bagged or hand layed after form is achieved to maintain
shape? What thickness of foam are you using . What desnsity is it
somthing comparable to h80 h100. Could the half hull form be bent
during the infusion process instead? Or does this just complicate
the process. Whats the weight of the ww hull when finished?

Todd
&THE GUY NEXT DOOR...

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...>
wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Apologies for cross posting.
>
> I have added a couple more photos to the Solitarry ww hull
workshop #2
> photos page at
http://au.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/photos/browse/598e
>
>
> They show work done after the workshop on the deck panels.
Infusing in this
> way is not recommended as the set up time is far too long. Better
to infuse
> full panels, then cut out the required pieces.
>
> Any questions, please ask.
>
> regards,
>
> rob
>

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1034 - Release Date: 2007/09/27 05:00 PM

-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@... [mailto:harryproa@...] On Behalf Of Todd
Sent: Friday, 28 September 2007 3:48 AM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: [harryproa] Re: harryproa ww hul infision photos

Hi Rob,

I don't get it. Are you laying up the panels then basically just
bending them to the form? What maintains the shape of the hull after
bladder is deflated? Is the bottom half below water line not resin
infused and bagged or hand layed after form is achieved to maintain
shape? What thickness of foam are you using . What desnsity is it
somthing comparable to h80 h100. Could the half hull form be bent
during the infusion process instead? Or does this just complicate
the process. Whats the weight of the ww hull when finished?

Todd
&THE GUY NEXT DOOR...

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...>
wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Apologies for cross posting.
>
> I have added a couple more photos to the Solitarry ww hull
workshop #2
> photos page at
http://au.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/photos/browse/598e
>
>
> They show work done after the workshop on the deck panels.
Infusing in this
> way is not recommended as the set up time is far too long. Better
to infuse
> full panels, then cut out the required pieces.
>
> Any questions, please ask.
>
> regards,
>
> rob
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Todd

To: harryproa@...

Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 7:47 PM

Subject: [harryproa] Re: harryproa ww hul infision photos

Hi Rob,

I don't get it. Are you laying up the panels then basically just
bending them to the form? What maintains the shape of the hull after
bladder is deflated? Is the bottom half below water line not resin
infused and bagged or hand layed after form is achieved to maintain
shape? What thickness of foam are you using . What desnsity is it
somthing comparable to h80 h100. Could the half hull form be bent
during the infusion process instead? Or does this just complicate
the process. Whats the weight of the ww hull when finished?

Todd
&THE GUY NEXT DOOR...

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...>
wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Apologies for cross posting.
>
> I have added a couple more photos to the Solitarry ww hull
workshop #2
> photos page at
http://au.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/photos/browse/598e
>
>
> They show work done after the workshop on the deck panels.
Infusing in this
> way is not recommended as the set up time is far too long. Better
to infuse
> full panels, then cut out the required pieces.
>
> Any questions, please ask.
>
> regards,
>
> rob
>

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.31/1031 - Release Date: 2007/09/26 12:12 PM

Hi Rob,

I don't get it. Are you laying up the panels then basically just
bending them to the form? What maintains the shape of the hull after
bladder is deflated? Is the bottom half below water line not resin
infused and bagged or hand layed after form is achieved to maintain
shape? What thickness of foam are you using . What desnsity is it
somthing comparable to  h80 h100. Could the half hull form be bent
during the infusion process instead? Or does this just complicate
the process. Whats the weight of the ww hull when finished?

Todd
&THE GUY NEXT DOOR...


--- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...>
wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> Apologies for cross posting.
>
> I have added a couple more photos to the Solitarry ww hull
workshop #2
> photos page at
http://au.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/harryproa/photos/browse/598e
>
>
> They show work done after the workshop on the deck panels.
Infusing in this
> way is not recommended as the set up time is far too long.  Better
to infuse
> full panels, then cut out the required pieces.
>
> Any questions, please ask.
>
> regards,
>
> rob
>

Hi,

Got some time and weathr for launch yesterday.

Much better sails thanks to better battens, probably why it seems
faster.
Steering really responsive from before, and also holds course better,
not bearing up like before.

Cabin is much better with little side storage.

Roof is OK, but is now obstructing the clear path of the boom so it
can't swing right around. Not good as often want to go wing and wing
or chance of getting blown aback menas could be in trouble.
Will try sorting so it slides back out of the way.

Rudders are functional, but not really comfortable with them.
Lines are very in the way of anchoring. I put the tiller to shaft
join under a lot of strain, and also the tiller extension to tiller
gets caught in the water or at an angle and can lever them apart.
Basically to many lines, fiddly and so far in two days is prone to
breakages - not good for long cruise in the outback.
So I thought probably could do a version of former rudders but hung
off the new little rudder beams - so the steerage is still way aft.
I also am really big on sailing into things with simple swing up
rudder blades, the currrent ones like to swing forwards.
The things do seem to work and hopfully will get down to Rockingham
on Sunday. I made them to low also , so the drag from waves slow it.

Doubt I can get ready for a Christmas time trip.

Doug

The magazine is out and the article is pretty informative,
  Robert
  --- In harryproa@..., "oceanplodder2003"
<dana-tenacity@...> wrote:
>
> I understand it is out, though haven't been able to find it here, is
> it on line ? or are we going to see it on the site soon? (just in case
> you weren't busy enough.
>

I understand it is out, though haven't been able to find it here, is
it on line ? or are we going to see it on the site soon? (just in case
you weren't busy enough.

-Where the core materials join , there is some sort of disontinuity.
What was youtr technique for keeping the curve smooth over the join,
  RObert-- In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney"
<harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> It is glassed down to near enough the start of the turn of the
bilge.  We
> are looking at options to get the normal harry shape with as little
effort
> as possible.
>
> Bain has been sailing, is apparently happy with the boat, but getting
> pictures off boat has not proved any easier than it has on Rare Bird, or
> Blind Date for that matter, which is regularly out in Holland.
>
> rr
>
> On 8/25/07, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
> >
> >   How much of the hull is glassed before the torture. I was
wondering if
> > most of the outside could be glassed initially for the leeward hull as
> > there isn't as much complex curvature.
> > The use of the blow up bag certainly spreads the stress nicely.
> > Robert
> > RObert--- In harryproa@...
<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>,
> > "Rob Denney"
> > <harryproa@> wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > No reason why not. The time it takes to set it up has to be
compared the
> > > time it saves. On small hulls with light laminates, it is
probably not
> > > worth the effort, particularly on the inside, where bagging the
bow is
> > > tricky. The bigger the hull, the more sense it makes.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > On 8/23/07, Robert <cateran1949@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > -can you resin infuse the below waterline glassing?
> > > > Robert
> > > > -- In harryproa@...
<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>
> > <harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>, "Rob
> > > > Denney" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > G'day,
> > > > >
> > > > > The foam held it's shape. In fact, it was possible to apply
a bit of
> > > > > downwards force to the gunwhale and get even more round in
the bilge
> > > > before
> > > > > it was glassed.
> > > > >
> > > > > regards,
> > > > > Rob
> > > > >
> > > > > On 8/22/07, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Rob,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How did you glass the inside with the bag holding the
shape and in
> > > > > > the way, or did the foam hold it's shape on it's own after
sitting
> > > > > > overnight ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > George Kuck
> > > > > > Chestertown, MD
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- In
harryproa@...<harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>
> > <harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au><harryproa%40yahoog
> >
> > > > roups.com.au>,
> > > > > > "proaharry" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > G'day,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have posted some photos that Mark took of the windward
> > hull being
> > > > > > > built. Pretty incredible. Derek has managed to get a
compound
> > > > > > curve
> > > > > > > from the flat foam panels, in a similar way to tortured ply.
> > > > > > > Differences are that the foam can be much thicker (we used
> > 12mm/half
> > > > > > > inch, could have been any thickness), more compounding
can be
> > > > > > achieved
> > > > > > > as the foam will stretch and it is quicker and easier. The
> > hull was
> > > > > > > glassed inside below the waterline the following day, and
> > outside
> > > > > > > below the waterline the day after. The deck is being infused
> > > > > > > tomorrow. The cabin and other bits the following day.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > Rob
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

With silly prices for carbon, how does using fibre glass compare?

I know cheaper and heavier is the answer, but how much?

Weight:
-the amount of resin, I assume will be the same.
- does a mast fail in tension or compression. I guess it probably is
in compression, certainly the case with all the windsurfer mast I have
broken!  If this is so, is carbon significantly better in compression
than glass?

Construction:
could you resin infuse in one go around a foam core?

Rob, would be interested to hear your view.

Many thanks
Mark