From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
To: harryproa@...
Date: Monday, 5 January, 2009, 10:34 PM

You can go through 10L a day just drinking. It is worth having a
little spray bottle to rinse the salt off the nether regions to avoid
tropical sores and boils.
Check carefully the timing of the lights. I was sailing at night from
Moresby when I traveled so much faster than I thought I was that I
mistook a light and ended up hard on a beach. Remember currents can
make a mess of your dead reckoning. I was surfing for about an hour or
two under spinnaker in some overfalls between Daru and Saibai and was
actually going backwards.
People travel around the Gulf in small boats all the time. You can go
straight across or explore the coastline. Again, be aware of the
currents , especially between islands. There are some amazing places
to explore. I don't recall people telling me the winds at particular
times of year but have seen some pictures of places they have visited
--- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote:
>
> The boat could easily dissappear off into the sunset on its own , it
is a difficult boat to stop moving - light weight no displacement,
draft. Can't really do much except stay on or tie a rope around body .
> About 20L enough water? Maybe 30L.
> Nopticed last night there ae a few lights shown on the charts
Troughton Island etc, planning on using a compass and then check for a
starto line up on at night.
>  
> Any thoughts on the Gulf of Carpentaria - about 270 miles across, a
bit steep chop.
>  
> Doug
>
> --- On Mon, 5/1/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote:
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
> To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> Date: Monday, 5 January, 2009, 3:05 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> After a while in Darwin, if you are a surfer the sight of 2.5-3m waves
> is too much to resist. The folklore is that crocs and stingers don't
> like the surf. In these circumstances what is a bloke supposed to do.
> There were about 15 people in the water so I caught a few waves before
> someone pointed out a croc among the white water. It was only
> relatively small so we all kept on surfing. We also used to swim at
> the local pool at a place called Nightcliff, and one time the early
> morning swimmers found a medium sized croc sitting in the pool.
> If you wear a stinger suit you are reasonably protected from both the
> stingers and sunburn. This is a full length rashy.
> Watch out for reflected glare. I once got a bad case of sunburn in my
> nostrils while tuna fishing on a glassy ocean. If you have a good
> moon, night time sailing works pretty well
> What are you doing to make sure the boat doesn't sail away from you if
> you go over the side. The cockpit position makes this unlikely, and I
> imagine the boat would luff up as soon as you took your hand off the
> tiller, but it could still drift faster than you could swim
> Carrying enough fresh water was my biggest bugbear when sailing a
> small boat in the tropics- apart from a bad case of giardia.
>
> --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote:
> >
> > Thanks that's a good one about anchor hauling - wear gloves I guess.
> >  
> > The Observations a very accurately showing nearly double wind speed
> in dark compared to the day,  was thinking start sailing early
> moeorning thebn at least you can find an anchorage some time durimg
> daylight.
> > I'm not going surfing past Gnarloo or MonteBellos, even that's
> adventurous enough.
> > Where did you surf with a croc? And why?
> >  
> > Doug
> >
> > --- On Sun, 4/1/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> > Date: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 10:45 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -I knew some people who were blowing up weather balloons for the
> > Wessel observations. It was part of an international scientific study
> > on thunderstorms. They picked Darwin as it was the most reliable place
> > for producing thunderstorms. There is a thunderstorm formation called
> > Hector that builds up every afternoon over the offshore islands.
> > Night time sailing is delightful. Be careful being close to the edge
> > of the boat because of the crocs and be careful in hauling in anchor
> > ropes if stingers are around. They really sting.
> >
> > -- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > it looks like there is more wind further off shore judging from the
> > mcclure point and wessel island observations
> > >  
> > > and just seen a day time pattern where all the wind dissapears
> > untill dark falls!
> > > Will have to sail at night - no worries no draft, can't hit
> > anything, much
> > >  
> > > Doug
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 4/1/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
> > > Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
> > > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> > > Date: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 2:53 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Can be beautiful sailing Sometime s too calm and sometimes a bit
wild
> > > with thunderstorms and cyclones . Beautiful conditions once the wet
> > > sets in, but be prepared to get up on the hard and tie yourself down
> > > if a cyclone is looming. Problems are stingers( deadly
jellyfish) and
> > > crocodiles. The tides up ther are enormous up to 8m range, and there
> > > is occasionally good winds and surf if there is a cyclone
nearby. Good
> > > value for mangoes and other tropical fruit. It is possible to
hide up
> > > the creeks when you have such a shallow draught.
> > > Watch out for tropical boils and sores from sitting down too long in
> > > salty clothes.
> > >
> > > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, "Douglas Alexander Frank
Haines"
> > > <doha720@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Robert or anyone,
> > > >
> > > > What is the weather like in summer?
> > > > Is there always a daily afternoon seabreeze?
> > > > Is it moderate or can it be fresh.
> > > > If there are thunderstaorms about does that stop the
seabreeze, and
> > > > make winds more variable?
> > > >
> > > > Doug
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
To: harryproa@...
Date: Monday, 5 January, 2009, 3:05 PM

After a while in Darwin, if you are a surfer the sight of 2.5-3m waves
is too much to resist. The folklore is that crocs and stingers don't
like the surf. In these circumstances what is a bloke supposed to do.
There were about 15 people in the water so I caught a few waves before
someone pointed out a croc among the white water. It was only
relatively small so we all kept on surfing. We also used to swim at
the local pool at a place called Nightcliff, and one time the early
morning swimmers found a medium sized croc sitting in the pool.
If you wear a stinger suit you are reasonably protected from both the
stingers and sunburn. This is a full length rashy.
Watch out for reflected glare. I once got a bad case of sunburn in my
nostrils while tuna fishing on a glassy ocean. If you have a good
moon, night time sailing works pretty well
What are you doing to make sure the boat doesn't sail away from you if
you go over the side. The cockpit position makes this unlikely, and I
imagine the boat would luff up as soon as you took your hand off the
tiller, but it could still drift faster than you could swim
Carrying enough fresh water was my biggest bugbear when sailing a
small boat in the tropics- apart from a bad case of giardia.

--- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote:
>
> Thanks that's a good one about anchor hauling - wear gloves I guess.
>  
> The Observations a very accurately showing nearly double wind speed
in dark compared to the day,  was thinking start sailing early
moeorning thebn at least you can find an anchorage some time durimg
daylight.
> I'm not going surfing past Gnarloo or MonteBellos, even that's
adventurous enough.
> Where did you surf with a croc? And why?
>  
> Doug
>
> --- On Sun, 4/1/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote:
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
> To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> Date: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 10:45 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -I knew some people who were blowing up weather balloons for the
> Wessel observations. It was part of an international scientific study
> on thunderstorms. They picked Darwin as it was the most reliable place
> for producing thunderstorms. There is a thunderstorm formation called
> Hector that builds up every afternoon over the offshore islands.
> Night time sailing is delightful. Be careful being close to the edge
> of the boat because of the crocs and be careful in hauling in anchor
> ropes if stingers are around. They really sting.
>
> -- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote:
> >
> > it looks like there is more wind further off shore judging from the
> mcclure point and wessel island observations
> >  
> > and just seen a day time pattern where all the wind dissapears
> untill dark falls!
> > Will have to sail at night - no worries no draft, can't hit
> anything, much
> >  
> > Doug
> >
> > --- On Sun, 4/1/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> > Date: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 2:53 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Can be beautiful sailing Sometime s too calm and sometimes a bit wild
> > with thunderstorms and cyclones . Beautiful conditions once the wet
> > sets in, but be prepared to get up on the hard and tie yourself down
> > if a cyclone is looming. Problems are stingers( deadly jellyfish) and
> > crocodiles. The tides up ther are enormous up to 8m range, and there
> > is occasionally good winds and surf if there is a cyclone nearby. Good
> > value for mangoes and other tropical fruit. It is possible to hide up
> > the creeks when you have such a shallow draught.
> > Watch out for tropical boils and sores from sitting down too long in
> > salty clothes.
> >
> > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, "Douglas Alexander Frank Haines"
> > <doha720@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > Robert or anyone,
> > >
> > > What is the weather like in summer?
> > > Is there always a daily afternoon seabreeze?
> > > Is it moderate or can it be fresh.
> > > If there are thunderstaorms about does that stop the seabreeze, and
> > > make winds more variable?
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> >
>

From: Rob Denney <harryproa@...>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Cape Horn sailing
To: harryproa@...
Date: Friday, 2 January, 2009, 8:26 PM

G'day,

Read Slocum's book on his voyage in Spray.  Can probably forget about the bare foot natives, but the rest still applies.  I would not be seeking shelter in that area, assuming you are travelling the right way (west to east).  Heave to with plenty of sea room and you will be fine. 

regards,

Rob

On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Gardner Pomper <gardner@networknow. org> wrote:

Do you know much about the straits of Magellan? I have actually been trying to research it for a while now and can't locate a chart or anything. The US Coast Guard pilotage document lists sudden squalls of 50-100 knots occuring in blackout conditions of rain and snow (this is summer time) along with currents of up to 8 knots. Without some information on anchorages, I am having some difficulty understanding if it is actually any better than just lying to and getting beat up in open water.

 

The reason I ask is that I am considering that trip (Magellan) someday and am trying to get some hard info.

 

Thanks,

 

- Gardner

On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Doug Haines <doha720@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

I'd hide out up in the straits of Magellan till it was calm enough and pop round the island (cape horn island?), bail out for warm waters. --- On Thu, 1/1/09, Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com> wrote: From: Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Cape Horn sailing To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au Date: Thursday, 1 January, 2009, 6:40 PM G'day, Sailing a harry round Cape Horn is right up the top of the things I want to do before i get too old.  With beam mounted rudders, I would be happier taking  RB round the Horn than any other 15m/50'ter not specifically designed for the trip, apart from Blind Date which has less weight and windage. The engineering is for normal sailing stresses, plus significant safety factors.  I cannot see any significant additional structural loads that would be added for cruising in extreme conditions (ie parachute anchor out, sails down, rudders up) apart from maybe thicker ww hull roof core/smaller panels in case a wave broke on it,  and dividing the saloon windows into smaller areas.   The rest of the time, sailing in high latitudes is pretty much the same as "normal" apart from the cold and bigger waves.   It only gets dangerous if you keep sailing when you shouldn't, or you approach a lee shore. There are a lot of mods I would make: big heater, smaller solid area on the bridgedeck,  better motor protection, more accessible sail controls, more sheltered helm, a second winch for the para anchor bridle, maybe bond in the beams and add more watertight bulkheads at the ends. If I was starting from scratch, I would go with a schooner rig (less to go wrong, redundancy). Having said this, I have not sailed round the Horn, so would be taking a lot of advice from people who had before i left. regards, Rob On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Gardner Pomper <gardner@networknow. org> wrote: All valid arguments. One question I would still have is if a "standard" harry would be strong enough. There is alot of pressure to keep the construction very light for speed, and I am sure they are engineered for "normal" sailing stresses. My question is if conditions like this would be out of the normal and would require beefier construction to prevent breakng rudders, cracking the hull/crossbeam joints, etc. Would you take Rare Bird around Cape Horn? - Gardner On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com> wrote: G'day, Great footage, and an amazing star.  Plenty of searoom, ability to lift underwater surfaces so the boat won't trip over them in big waves, low windage, double ended hulls, no cockpit to fill with water, lots of reserve buoyancy and nothing at the bow to trip over, shelter for the crew and an instantly depowerable rig are all attributes for handling storms which harrys have, and most other boats don't .  Add a drogue to slow you down, and a parachute anchor to stop you if required and big seas/strong winds should not be a problem.  Crew getting tired, sick or scared is a different ball game, but crew on a harryproa are less likely than other than those on other boat types to suffer from at least the first two.  regards, Rob On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:18 AM, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hello Rob and gang, Take a look at this film from 1929. It was posted on the F-Boat group forum. Do you think the Harryproa can sail in such conditions?? This is most fantastic sailing account with a first hand narrative I have ever seen. It is claimed that boat is going 16 knots at one point. I had no idea a square sailed ship could go this fast. http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-118458393 3122407708&hl=en Happpy sailing, George Kuck Chestertown, MD

From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
To: harryproa@...
Date: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 10:45 PM

-I knew some people who were blowing up weather balloons for the
Wessel observations. It was part of an international scientific study
on thunderstorms. They picked Darwin as it was the most reliable place
for producing thunderstorms. There is a thunderstorm formation called
Hector that builds up every afternoon over the offshore islands.
Night time sailing is delightful. Be careful being close to the edge
of the boat because of the crocs and be careful in hauling in anchor
ropes if stingers are around. They really sting.

-- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote:
>
> it looks like there is more wind further off shore judging from the
mcclure point and wessel island observations
>  
> and just seen a day time pattern where all the wind dissapears
untill dark falls!
> Will have to sail at night - no worries no draft, can't hit
anything, much
>  
> Doug
>
> --- On Sun, 4/1/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote:
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
> To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> Date: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 2:53 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Can be beautiful sailing Sometime s too calm and sometimes a bit wild
> with thunderstorms and cyclones . Beautiful conditions once the wet
> sets in, but be prepared to get up on the hard and tie yourself down
> if a cyclone is looming. Problems are stingers( deadly jellyfish) and
> crocodiles. The tides up ther are enormous up to 8m range, and there
> is occasionally good winds and surf if there is a cyclone nearby. Good
> value for mangoes and other tropical fruit. It is possible to hide up
> the creeks when you have such a shallow draught.
> Watch out for tropical boils and sores from sitting down too long in
> salty clothes.
>
> --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, "Douglas Alexander Frank Haines"
> <doha720@ > wrote:
> >
> > Robert or anyone,
> >
> > What is the weather like in summer?
> > Is there always a daily afternoon seabreeze?
> > Is it moderate or can it be fresh.
> > If there are thunderstaorms about does that stop the seabreeze, and
> > make winds more variable?
> >
> > Doug
> >
>

From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
To: harryproa@...
Date: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 2:53 PM

Can be beautiful sailing Sometime s too calm and sometimes a bit wild
with thunderstorms and cyclones . Beautiful conditions once the wet
sets in, but be prepared to get up on the hard and tie yourself down
if a cyclone is looming. Problems are stingers( deadly jellyfish) and
crocodiles. The tides up ther are enormous up to 8m range, and there
is occasionally good winds and surf if there is a cyclone nearby. Good
value for mangoes and other tropical fruit. It is possible to hide up
the creeks when you have such a shallow draught.
Watch out for tropical boils and sores from sitting down too long in
salty clothes.

--- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, "Douglas Alexander Frank Haines"
<doha720@... > wrote:
>
> Robert or anyone,
>
> What is the weather like in summer?
> Is there always a daily afternoon seabreeze?
> Is it moderate or can it be fresh.
> If there are thunderstaorms about does that stop the seabreeze, and
> make winds more variable?
>
> Doug
>

From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
To: harryproa@...
Date: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 2:53 PM

Can be beautiful sailing Sometime s too calm and sometimes a bit wild
with thunderstorms and cyclones . Beautiful conditions once the wet
sets in, but be prepared to get up on the hard and tie yourself down
if a cyclone is looming. Problems are stingers( deadly jellyfish) and
crocodiles. The tides up ther are enormous up to 8m range, and there
is occasionally good winds and surf if there is a cyclone nearby. Good
value for mangoes and other tropical fruit. It is possible to hide up
the creeks when you have such a shallow draught.
Watch out for tropical boils and sores from sitting down too long in
salty clothes.

--- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, "Douglas Alexander Frank Haines"
<doha720@... > wrote:
>
> Robert or anyone,
>
> What is the weather like in summer?
> Is there always a daily afternoon seabreeze?
> Is it moderate or can it be fresh.
> If there are thunderstaorms about does that stop the seabreeze, and
> make winds more variable?
>
> Doug
>

From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
Subject: [harryproa] Re: NT weather
To: harryproa@...
Date: Sunday, 4 January, 2009, 2:53 PM

Can be beautiful sailing Sometime s too calm and sometimes a bit wild
with thunderstorms and cyclones . Beautiful conditions once the wet
sets in, but be prepared to get up on the hard and tie yourself down
if a cyclone is looming. Problems are stingers( deadly jellyfish) and
crocodiles. The tides up ther are enormous up to 8m range, and there
is occasionally good winds and surf if there is a cyclone nearby. Good
value for mangoes and other tropical fruit. It is possible to hide up
the creeks when you have such a shallow draught.
Watch out for tropical boils and sores from sitting down too long in
salty clothes.

--- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, "Douglas Alexander Frank Haines"
<doha720@... > wrote:
>
> Robert or anyone,
>
> What is the weather like in summer?
> Is there always a daily afternoon seabreeze?
> Is it moderate or can it be fresh.
> If there are thunderstaorms about does that stop the seabreeze, and
> make winds more variable?
>
> Doug
>

From: fitzgeraldskhayyam <omarkhayyam@...>
Subject: [harryproa] Speed Sailing Proa
To: harryproa@...
Date: Friday, 2 January, 2009, 6:30 PM

just saw this on Youtube
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=Zuh198jdZSc& feature=related

From: Rob Denney <harryproa@...>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Cape Horn sailing
To: harryproa@...
Date: Friday, 2 January, 2009, 8:26 PM

G'day,

Read Slocum's book on his voyage in Spray.  Can probably forget about the bare foot natives, but the rest still applies.  I would not be seeking shelter in that area, assuming you are travelling the right way (west to east).  Heave to with plenty of sea room and you will be fine. 

regards,

Rob

On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Gardner Pomper <gardner@networknow. org> wrote:

Do you know much about the straits of Magellan? I have actually been trying to research it for a while now and can't locate a chart or anything. The US Coast Guard pilotage document lists sudden squalls of 50-100 knots occuring in blackout conditions of rain and snow (this is summer time) along with currents of up to 8 knots. Without some information on anchorages, I am having some difficulty understanding if it is actually any better than just lying to and getting beat up in open water.

 

The reason I ask is that I am considering that trip (Magellan) someday and am trying to get some hard info.

 

Thanks,

 

- Gardner

On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Doug Haines <doha720@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

I'd hide out up in the straits of Magellan till it was calm enough and pop round the island (cape horn island?), bail out for warm waters. --- On Thu, 1/1/09, Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com> wrote: From: Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Cape Horn sailing To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au Date: Thursday, 1 January, 2009, 6:40 PM G'day, Sailing a harry round Cape Horn is right up the top of the things I want to do before i get too old.  With beam mounted rudders, I would be happier taking  RB round the Horn than any other 15m/50'ter not specifically designed for the trip, apart from Blind Date which has less weight and windage. The engineering is for normal sailing stresses, plus significant safety factors.  I cannot see any significant additional structural loads that would be added for cruising in extreme conditions (ie parachute anchor out, sails down, rudders up) apart from maybe thicker ww hull roof core/smaller panels in case a wave broke on it,  and dividing the saloon windows into smaller areas.   The rest of the time, sailing in high latitudes is pretty much the same as "normal" apart from the cold and bigger waves.   It only gets dangerous if you keep sailing when you shouldn't, or you approach a lee shore. There are a lot of mods I would make: big heater, smaller solid area on the bridgedeck,  better motor protection, more accessible sail controls, more sheltered helm, a second winch for the para anchor bridle, maybe bond in the beams and add more watertight bulkheads at the ends. If I was starting from scratch, I would go with a schooner rig (less to go wrong, redundancy). Having said this, I have not sailed round the Horn, so would be taking a lot of advice from people who had before i left. regards, Rob On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Gardner Pomper <gardner@networknow. org> wrote: All valid arguments. One question I would still have is if a "standard" harry would be strong enough. There is alot of pressure to keep the construction very light for speed, and I am sure they are engineered for "normal" sailing stresses. My question is if conditions like this would be out of the normal and would require beefier construction to prevent breakng rudders, cracking the hull/crossbeam joints, etc. Would you take Rare Bird around Cape Horn? - Gardner On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com> wrote: G'day, Great footage, and an amazing star.  Plenty of searoom, ability to lift underwater surfaces so the boat won't trip over them in big waves, low windage, double ended hulls, no cockpit to fill with water, lots of reserve buoyancy and nothing at the bow to trip over, shelter for the crew and an instantly depowerable rig are all attributes for handling storms which harrys have, and most other boats don't .  Add a drogue to slow you down, and a parachute anchor to stop you if required and big seas/strong winds should not be a problem.  Crew getting tired, sick or scared is a different ball game, but crew on a harryproa are less likely than other than those on other boat types to suffer from at least the first two.  regards, Rob On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:18 AM, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hello Rob and gang, Take a look at this film from 1929. It was posted on the F-Boat group forum. Do you think the Harryproa can sail in such conditions?? This is most fantastic sailing account with a first hand narrative I have ever seen. It is claimed that boat is going 16 knots at one point. I had no idea a square sailed ship could go this fast. http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-118458393 3122407708&hl=en Happpy sailing, George Kuck Chestertown, MD

From: fitzgeraldskhayyam <omarkhayyam@...>
Subject: [harryproa] Speed Sailing Proa
To: harryproa@...
Date: Friday, 2 January, 2009, 6:30 PM

just saw this on Youtube
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=Zuh198jdZSc& feature=related

From: Gardner Pomper <gardner@...>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Cape Horn sailing
To: harryproa@...
Date: Friday, 2 January, 2009, 4:20 PM

Do you know much about the straits of Magellan? I have actually been trying to research it for a while now and can't locate a chart or anything. The US Coast Guard pilotage document lists sudden squalls of 50-100 knots occuring in blackout conditions of rain and snow (this is summer time) along with currents of up to 8 knots. Without some information on anchorages, I am having some difficulty understanding if it is actually any better than just lying to and getting beat up in open water.

 

The reason I ask is that I am considering that trip (Magellan) someday and am trying to get some hard info.

 

Thanks,

 

- Gardner

On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Doug Haines <doha720@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

I'd hide out up in the straits of Magellan till it was calm enough and pop round the island (cape horn island?), bail out for warm waters. --- On Thu, 1/1/09, Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com> wrote: From: Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Cape Horn sailing To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au Date: Thursday, 1 January, 2009, 6:40 PM G'day, Sailing a harry round Cape Horn is right up the top of the things I want to do before i get too old.  With beam mounted rudders, I would be happier taking  RB round the Horn than any other 15m/50'ter not specifically designed for the trip, apart from Blind Date which has less weight and windage. The engineering is for normal sailing stresses, plus significant safety factors.  I cannot see any significant additional structural loads that would be added for cruising in extreme conditions (ie parachute anchor out, sails down, rudders up) apart from maybe thicker ww hull roof core/smaller panels in case a wave broke on it,  and dividing the saloon windows into smaller areas.   The rest of the time, sailing in high latitudes is pretty much the same as "normal" apart from the cold and bigger waves.   It only gets dangerous if you keep sailing when you shouldn't, or you approach a lee shore. There are a lot of mods I would make: big heater, smaller solid area on the bridgedeck,  better motor protection, more accessible sail controls, more sheltered helm, a second winch for the para anchor bridle, maybe bond in the beams and add more watertight bulkheads at the ends. If I was starting from scratch, I would go with a schooner rig (less to go wrong, redundancy). Having said this, I have not sailed round the Horn, so would be taking a lot of advice from people who had before i left. regards, Rob On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Gardner Pomper <gardner@networknow. org> wrote: All valid arguments. One question I would still have is if a "standard" harry would be strong enough. There is alot of pressure to keep the construction very light for speed, and I am sure they are engineered for "normal" sailing stresses. My question is if conditions like this would be out of the normal and would require beefier construction to prevent breakng rudders, cracking the hull/crossbeam joints, etc. Would you take Rare Bird around Cape Horn? - Gardner On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com> wrote: G'day, Great footage, and an amazing star.  Plenty of searoom, ability to lift underwater surfaces so the boat won't trip over them in big waves, low windage, double ended hulls, no cockpit to fill with water, lots of reserve buoyancy and nothing at the bow to trip over, shelter for the crew and an instantly depowerable rig are all attributes for handling storms which harrys have, and most other boats don't .  Add a drogue to slow you down, and a parachute anchor to stop you if required and big seas/strong winds should not be a problem.  Crew getting tired, sick or scared is a different ball game, but crew on a harryproa are less likely than other than those on other boat types to suffer from at least the first two.  regards, Rob On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:18 AM, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@ yahoo.com> wrote: Hello Rob and gang, Take a look at this film from 1929. It was posted on the F-Boat group forum. Do you think the Harryproa can sail in such conditions?? This is most fantastic sailing account with a first hand narrative I have ever seen. It is claimed that boat is going 16 knots at one point. I had no idea a square sailed ship could go this fast. http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-118458393 3122407708&hl=en Happpy sailing, George Kuck Chestertown, MD

From: Rob Denney <harryproa@...>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Cape Horn sailing
To: harryproa@...
Date: Thursday, 1 January, 2009, 6:40 PM

G'day,

Sailing a harry round Cape Horn is right up the top of the things I want to do before i get too old. 
With beam mounted rudders, I would be happier taking  RB round the Horn than any other 15m/50'ter not specifically designed for the trip, apart from Blind Date which has less weight and windage.

The engineering is for normal sailing stresses, plus significant safety factors.  I cannot see any significant additional structural loads that would be added for cruising in extreme conditions (ie parachute anchor out, sails down, rudders up) apart from maybe thicker ww hull roof core/smaller panels in case a wave broke on it,  and dividing the saloon windows into smaller areas.   The rest of the time, sailing in high latitudes is pretty much the same as "normal" apart from the cold and bigger waves.   It only gets dangerous if you keep sailing when you shouldn't, or you approach a lee shore.

There are a lot of mods I would make: big heater, smaller solid area on the bridgedeck,  better motor protection, more accessible sail controls, more sheltered helm, a second winch for the para anchor bridle, maybe bond in the beams and add more watertight bulkheads at the ends.

If I was starting from scratch, I would go with a schooner rig (less to go wrong, redundancy).

Having said this, I have not sailed round the Horn, so would be taking a lot of advice from people who had before i left.

regards,

Rob

On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Gardner Pomper <gardner@networknow. org> wrote:

All valid arguments. One question I would still have is if a "standard" harry would be strong enough. There is alot of pressure to keep the construction very light for speed, and I am sure they are engineered for "normal" sailing stresses. My question is if conditions like this would be out of the normal and would require beefier construction to prevent breakng rudders, cracking the hull/crossbeam joints, etc. Would you take Rare Bird around Cape Horn?

- Gardner

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com> wrote:

G'day,

Great footage, and an amazing star. 

Plenty of searoom, ability to lift underwater surfaces so the boat won't trip over them in big waves, low windage, double ended hulls, no cockpit to fill with water, lots of reserve buoyancy and nothing at the bow to trip over, shelter for the crew and an instantly depowerable rig are all attributes for handling storms which harrys have, and most other boats don't .  Add a drogue to slow you down, and a parachute anchor to stop you if required and big seas/strong winds should not be a problem. 

Crew getting tired, sick or scared is a different ball game, but crew on a harryproa are less likely than other than those on other boat types to suffer from at least the first two. 

regards,

Rob

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:18 AM, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Hello Rob and gang,

Take a look at this film from 1929. It was posted on the F-Boat group
forum. Do you think the Harryproa can sail in such conditions?? This
is most fantastic sailing account with a first hand narrative I have
ever seen. It is claimed that boat is going 16 knots at one point. I
had no idea a square sailed ship could go this fast.

http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-118458393 3122407708&hl=en

Happpy sailing,
George Kuck
Chestertown, MD

From: Rob Denney <harryproa@...>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] photos arriving now
To: harryproa@...
Date: Thursday, 1 January, 2009, 12:19 PM

G'day,

Nothing good to report. 

I arrived at 7 am, crew slowly appear until 10.  Safety inspection still happening.  22 crew, 8 of whom were "experts" who had sailed on the boat before and were working for the owner.   Crew meeting where we are told only the experts sail the boat, only the cooks go in the galley and only the navigators go in the nav station.  3 watches, 3 hours on, 6 off. 

Near last to leave the marina, hoist the main, then the jib and a winch lifts off the deck.  ("Oh yeah, forgot to tell you, don't use that one").  Then a spi sheet gets wrapped round the prop, stalling the engine.  We got a pretty good start, but got rolled by a couple of 52'ters by the Heads.  Up with the spi and head south.

Breeze up the bum, and slowly building, but not strong enough for first timers to fly the kite.  We were trucking along under the big (600 sq m) assymetric spinnaker a couple of hours after the start and the crew were not at all keen to try the kite (420 sq m).  Peter, (the charterer) getting increasingly irritated, then finally tells us there is a chopper coming out to take pictures in 30 minutes, get the kite up.    None of the crew move, I start setting up the lines, they start telling me why the lines can't go where I want them.  Eventually get their attention when Pete demands the spi be dropped, which it is, with the chopper now buzzing around us.   

We had agreed to drop the main to make the first kite fly easier, but the helmsman reckons he can handle the boat with the main sheeted amidships, so it stays up. 

No time for my customary spiel on who does what and why, so up goes the kite.  With a twist, which is unusual, but eventually it blows out.  We then have a discussion about what "main sheeted amidships" actually means, and it eventually is.    I call the kite trim, but the crew are not trying very hard (not helped by not being able to hear my calls), takes 10 minutes to get it half way out (usually takes about 2), and the retrieval line, which must remain slack, is not being eased so the kite is not flying properly.  Eventually the helmsman gets the boat not pointing dead down wind, the main fills, the vortex behind it rotates the kite which collapses and falls in the water.  Quick crew work and we get it out, and up goes the spi, accompanied by unbridled derision. 

I bite my tongue, explain to Pete why it didn't fly, and spend the next 2 days listening to tedious kite jokes.

Later on the breeze was plenty strong enough, but the guys were not interested, so the kite stayed in the bag.  2 am on the second night, the breeze gets up to 30-35 knots, our heroes drop the spinnaker and decide to "wait and see what the breeze does next".  As always when this is the call, the helmsman and main trimmer  stop racing.  Predictably,  the main flogs and rips in two.  We eventually get the pieces down, the heavies decide to wait a bit longer, eventually put the trisail up (takes over an hour) and we sail with this for 10 hours (breeze dropping and going aft all the time) at about 70% of the speed we should have.  Eventually shame the heavies into hoisting the cruising main (another hour+), speed picks up and we bash across Storm Bay (the only tacks since Sydney Harbour) to finish with the 40 footers.  19th out of 100, in the 5th biggest boat.  By far my worst performance in 7 Hobarts.   

Also, by far, the most benign Hobart I have done.  Shorts and bare feet until the last night, 35 knots max breeze, very little upwind, one gybe, small waves, one mild southerly change, which died almost immediately,  a dozen or so sail changes. 

I ss&s, jump on a plane and am back home 82 hours after leaving.  All my prejudices against monos (slow, tippy, cramped), stayed rigs (dangerous, expensive, difficult) and old maxis (accidents waiting to happen) are still intact. I had a few ideas on proa layouts and one of the non expert crew may end up with one, so not a total loss, but in terms of flying the kite, winning the race or having a fun time with like minded people, it was not very successful.

Top speed was 26 knots surfing down a largish wave, 40 degrees off course, which apparently cracked the deck near the mast.  Average speed under spinnaker was about 13 knots, with 15-30 knots of breeze on the quarter,  a knot of current going our way and easily surfed waves.  Requires a helmsman, and trimmers on both main and spin sheet, plus grinders to trim them for every wave.  Compares very poorly with Rare Bird in cruising mode doing 15 knots in 15 knots of breeze with sheets cleated. 

The motor had to be run one hour in 8 to provide electricity for the hydraulics, which control everything except the sheets and halyards.  Rig loads are measured in 10's of tonnes, crew and all sails have to be as far to windward as possible, at all times.  Not just uncomfortable, but unsafe, when the only thing keeping 80% of the crew on the boat is a 10 year old 4mm/0.15" thick stainless wire lifeline. 

The first boat to retire broke it's rudder shaft, filled with water and sank.  Says it all about in hull rudders, mono safety and the much vaunted safety rules in place for the race.

Lessons?  Same as always.  Don't fly kites for the first time in marginal conditions, don't let knockers trim them, don't fly them with the main up until the crew knows how to fly them.

regards,

Rob

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Douglas Alexander Frank Haines <doha720@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

some construction on harriette series
possible completion delayed a week since
sailing to Aususta on sidecar this coming week - round cape
Naturalist and Leeuwin.


brindabella nnot seem to be trying kite!
web site says doing 11 knots, leaders doing 18!
maybe Rob missed the boat? and they are not game enough to try it, or
something went amisswith the equipment?

Commentarry on TV and Web indicated possible Kite flying on Brindabelle
though no direct mention of Rob.

Doug