I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder upgrade plans.
I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way up for shallow water and it can still kick up.
Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a dagger board rudder ?
Happy sailing,
George Kuck
Chestertown, Md.
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
From: Robert <cateran1949@...> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things To: harryproa@... Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM
Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am pretty impressed at the rate of progress. There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the light that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld and get some sailing in. I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still
not sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote: > > hi robert > >
OK george? what's up with the boats, you could try out rudders on the small one couldn't you. The small proa in the barn with the flat bottom i think it was in the phots., uh oh, sorry i got mixed up because i was actually meaning what's his face Pomper.
OK forget that, unless you get gardner to test you r rudders tigether.
Seriously though the latest rudders that I like are the ones in Rob's latest newslettre pictured on the elementarry. I"M INTENDING the same set up for sidecar soon as h'ette sailings done.
Douglas H.
--- On Fri, 10/7/09, George Kuck <chesapeake410@...> wrote:
From: George Kuck <chesapeake410@...> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders Tthe o: harryproa@... Date: Friday, 10 July, 2009, 12:30 PM
Hello Robert ,
I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder upgrade plans.
I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way up for shallow water and it can still kick up.
Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a dagger board rudder ?
Happy sailing,
George Kuck
Chestertown, Md.
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:
From: Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM
Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am pretty impressed at the rate of progress. There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the light that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld and get some sailing in. I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still
not sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote: > > hi robert > >
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders
Hello Robert ,
I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder upgrade plans.
I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way up for shallow water and it can still kick up.
Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a dagger board rudder ?
Happy sailing,
George Kuck
Chestertown, Md.
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
From: Robert <cateran1949@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM
Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am pretty impressed at the rate of progress. There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the light that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld and get some sailing in. I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still not sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote: > > hi robert > >
This is pretty well what I have come down to. I would probably have gone with
the older cassette rudders as most of the time I would be sailing in plenty of
water but plan to incorporate the rudders into the flare. I was also considering
having a sacrificial tip.
I worked out a curved blade for the cassette type that would remain balanced at
all depths but it would have been a pig to make and would have had some
interesting torques on it
--- In harryproa@..., "Rudolf vd Brug" <rpvdb@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> BD had the kick up dagger rudders. To be able to steer them you need balance.
> The old BD rudders worked, but only when fully down (2 m draught)
> The balance you need by canting the blade forward is gone when it's partially
retracted.
> That's why BD's new rudder is on a shaft in bearings hanging from the beam.
> Bearings are on a tube through which the shaft can be pulled up. That way
balance doesn't change.
> Kick up function by having shear pins holding the bearings in place.
> This seems to be a difficult problem in bigger boats. The rudder boxes on BD's
beams are big and heavy.
> I'll post some photo's soon.
> Regards,
>
> Rudolf
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: George Kuck
> To: harryproa@...
> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 4:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Robert ,
> I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can
kick up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a
problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board
case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder upgrade
plans.
> http://www.f-boatmart.com/home.php?cat=255
>
> I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I
do not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for Blind
date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger board can
go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way up for shallow
water and it can still kick up.
>
> Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it
a dagger board rudder ?
>
> Happy sailing,
> George Kuck
> Chestertown, Md.
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things
> To: harryproa@...
> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM
>
>
> Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got
stuck into the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I
am pretty impressed at the rate of progress.
> There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the
Tanami Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the
light that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some
house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in the
town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and very
energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next March so I
could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a promotion and
decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same line of business
as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld and get some sailing
in.
> I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am
still not sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up
or retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic
rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders that
kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the bearings.I
am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and allowing a small
amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In harryproa@yahoogrou
ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote:
> >
> > hi robert
> >
> >
> Recent Activity
> a.. 5
> New Photos
> Visit Your Group
> Yahoo!7 360°
> Start a blog
> Public or private-
>
> it's your choice.
>
> Y!7 Toolbar
> Get it Free!
> easy 1-click access
>
> to your groups.
>
> Yahoo!7 Groups
> Start a group
> in 3 easy steps.
>
> Connect with others.
>
> .
>
HI George ,
I have studied Rare Birds and Aroha's rudders in a lot of detail. (I even
helped with the fairing of Aroha's rudders) and much as I think they satisfy the
requirements, as mentioned by Rudolf, they have balance problems if only partly
down. It is possible to get round this with a curved blade but not easy and I
have other considerations due to the flare on the inside of the hull I wish to
incorporate. I was also considering sliding the rudder in side a barrel to allow
further retraction but the bearings are more expensive to get right. Torlon
balls and careful bearing surfaces are required with the larger diameter. The
kick up system could still be based on a fuse. Money aside this could be a
system that works well. --- In harryproa@..., George Kuck
<chesapeake410@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Robert ,
> I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick up.
It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a problem on
360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board case. This is
what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder upgrade plans.
> http://www.f-boatmart.com/home.php?cat=255
>
> I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do not
know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for Blind date
? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger board can go
through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way up for shallow
water and it can still kick up.
>
> Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a
dagger board rudder ?
>
> Happy sailing,
> George Kuck
> Chestertown, Md.
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things
> To: harryproa@...
> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into the
rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am pretty
impressed at the rate of progress.
> There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami
Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the light that
manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some house plans
for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in the town so it
may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and very energy
efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next March so I could
get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a promotion and decided to
hang in for another year or so. She is in the same line of business as Rob's
wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld and get some sailing in.
> I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still not
sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or
retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic
rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders that
kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the bearings.I
am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and allowing a small
amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In harryproa@yahoogrou
ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote:
> >
> > hi robert
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Recent Activity
>
>
> 5
> New PhotosVisit Your Group
>
>
>
> Yahoo!7 360°
> Start a blog
> Public or private-
> it's your choice.
>
> Y!7 Toolbar
> Get it Free!
> easy 1-click access
> to your groups.
>
> Yahoo!7 Groups
> Start a group
> in 3 easy steps.
> Connect with others.
> .
>
I do not think the balance would be a problem as the rudder would be most or all of way down when sailing and I would only be pulling it to a minimum for steerage when motoring up creek to slip in less than 2' of water (mud bottom) at low speed. I do like having the rudder on the LW hull as in the original BD rudders, I just think it is more aesthetically better looking and gets the bearing further down for better support.
I understand there was a problem with original rudders on BD but can that system work OK on the smaller 12 M Harryproa as it was used on Bain's Arora ? Can a kick up casset/daggerboard rudder be used so if it does kick up, it is a simple matter to reset it ? Would either a releasable hold down or elastic cord hold down be better than a "fuse" type pin that would be more difficult to replace in a hurry and may get jammed ?
Happy sailing
George Kuck
Chestertown, Md.
PS
Any news on Arora's where abouts ? I hope he didn't get stranded somewhere.
--- On Fri, 7/10/09, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
From: Robert <cateran1949@...> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders To: harryproa@... Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 8:07 AM
HI George , I have studied Rare Birds and Aroha's rudders in a lot of detail. (I even helped with the fairing of Aroha's rudders) and much as I think they satisfy the requirements, as mentioned by Rudolf, they have balance problems if only partly down. It is possible to get round this with a curved blade but not easy and I have other considerations due to the flare on the inside of the hull I wish to incorporate. I was also considering sliding the rudder in side a barrel to allow further retraction but the bearings are more expensive to get right. Torlon balls and careful bearing surfaces are required with the larger diameter. The kick up system could still be based on a fuse. Money aside this could be a system that works well. --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, George Kuck
<chesapeake410@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Robert , > I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder upgrade plans. > http://www.f- boatmart. com/home. php?cat=255 > > I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way up for shallow water and it can still kick up. > > Rob,
what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a dagger board rudder ? > > Happy sailing, > George Kuck > Chestertown, Md. > > > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM > > > > > > > > > Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am pretty impressed at the rate of progress. > There is
a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the light that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld and get some sailing in. > I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still not sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way.
I have looked at rudders that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote: > > > > hi robert > > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > 5 > New PhotosVisit Your Group > > > > Yahoo!7 360° > Start a blog > Public or private- > it's your choice. > > Y!7 Toolbar > Get it Free! > easy 1-click access > to your groups. > > Yahoo!7 Groups > Start a group > in 3 easy steps. > Connect with others. > . >
-Under those conditions there shouldn't be a problem. The problems on the
original supports were sorted out pretty easily with an extra diagonal strut.
The fuse system worked very well but make sure you have some spare fuses on hand
or you may be tempted to replace it with something else that doesn't give.
-- In harryproa@..., George Kuck <chesapeake410@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I do not think the balance would be a problem as the rudder would be most or
all of way down when sailing and I would only be pulling it to a minimum for
steerage when motoring up creek to slip in less than 2' of water (mud bottom) at
low speed. I do like having the rudder on the LW hull as in the original BD
rudders, I just think it is more aesthetically better looking and gets the
bearing further down for better support.
>
> I understand there was a problem with original rudders on BD but can that
system work OK on the smaller 12 M Harryproa as it was used on Bain's Arora ?
Can a kick up casset/daggerboard rudder be used so if it does kick up, it is a
simple matter to reset it ? Would either a releasable hold down or elastic cord
hold down be better than a "fuse" type pin that would be more difficult to
replace in a hurry and may get jammed ?
>
> Happy sailing
> George Kuck
> Chestertown, Md.
>
> PS
> Any news on Arora's where abouts ? I hope he didn't get stranded somewhere.
>
> --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders
> To: harryproa@...
> Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 8:07 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> HI George ,
> I have studied Rare Birds and Aroha's rudders in a lot of detail. (I even
helped with the fairing of Aroha's rudders) and much as I think they satisfy the
requirements, as mentioned by Rudolf, they have balance problems if only partly
down. It is possible to get round this with a curved blade but not easy and I
have other considerations due to the flare on the inside of the hull I wish to
incorporate. I was also considering sliding the rudder in side a barrel to allow
further retraction but the bearings are more expensive to get right. Torlon
balls and careful bearing surfaces are required with the larger diameter. The
kick up system could still be based on a fuse. Money aside this could be a
system that works well. --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, George Kuck
<chesapeake410@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Robert ,
> > I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick
up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a problem
on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board case. This
is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder upgrade plans.
> > http://www.f- boatmart. com/home. php?cat=255
> >
> > I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do
not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for Blind
date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger board can
go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way up for shallow
water and it can still kick up.
> >
> > Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a
dagger board rudder ?
> >
> > Happy sailing,
> > George Kuck
> > Chestertown, Md.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things
> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into
the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am pretty
impressed at the rate of progress.
> > There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami
Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the light that
manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some house plans
for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in the town so it
may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and very energy
efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next March so I could
get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a promotion and decided to
hang in for another year or so. She is in the same line of business as Rob's
wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld and get some sailing in.
> > I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still not
sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or
retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic
rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders that
kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the bearings.I
am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and allowing a small
amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In harryproa@yahoogrou
ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > hi robert
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Recent Activity
> >
> >
> > 5
> > New PhotosVisit Your Group
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo!7 360°
> > Start a blog
> > Public or private-
> > it's your choice.
> >
> > Y!7 Toolbar
> > Get it Free!
> > easy 1-click access
> > to your groups.
> >
> > Yahoo!7 Groups
> > Start a group
> > in 3 easy steps.
> > Connect with others.
> > .
> >
>
One interesting design I've seen is the kickup system for the
Dragonfly 35.
The line holding the centerboard in place is routed up on deck and
then through a jam cleat to hold it in place. The cleat itself is then
built into a hinged box, with the hinge on the tensioned side, so the
cleat can flip up and let out the line. The cleat is then held in its
normal position by a ball bearing on a spring (push the cleat down, it
pops through the bearing, and the bearing then holds it in place).
When enough force is put on the cleat, it pulls upward past the ball
bearing, which then allows the cleat to fully pop up on the hinge,
which then releases the line.
I'm not sure how I'd do this on a rudder that turns more than 90
degrees, but it's still a neat way to tackle the problem.
- Mike
Robert wrote:
-Under those conditions there shouldn't be a problem. The problems
on the original supports were sorted out pretty easily with an extra
diagonal strut. The fuse system worked very well but make sure you have
some spare fuses on hand or you may be tempted to replace it with
something else that doesn't give.
The problem with RB's rudders was easily fixed with a diagonal strut.
They worked well on the way to Gladstone, until the pintle sheered.
The owner and I have spent many hours discussing different rudder
solutions and before the race were both dead keen to try them as soon
as possible. He was sufficiently impressed to stick with the
originals, which are currenty being repaired. Nothing from Aroha.
Hard to believe in this day and age, but since arriving, they have not
been seen.
regards,
Rob
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 8:46 PM, George Kuck<chesapeake410@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I do not think the balance would be a problem as the rudder would be most or
> all of way down when sailing and I would only be pulling it to a minimum for
> steerage when motoring up creek to slip in less than 2' of water (mud
> bottom) at low speed. I do like having the rudder on the LW hull as in the
> original BD rudders, I just think it is more aesthetically better looking
> and gets the bearing further down for better support.
>
> I understand there was a problem with original rudders on BD but can that
> system work OK on the smaller 12 M Harryproa as it was used on Bain's Arora
> ? Can a kick up casset/daggerboard rudder be used so if it does kick up, it
> is a simple matter to reset it ? Would either a releasable hold down or
> elastic cord hold down be better than a "fuse" type pin that would be more
> difficult to replace in a hurry and may get jammed ?
>
> Happy sailing
> George Kuck
> Chestertown, Md.
>
> PS
> Any news on Arora's where abouts ? I hope he didn't get stranded somewhere.
> --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders
> To: harryproa@...
> Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 8:07 AM
>
> HI George ,
> I have studied Rare Birds and Aroha's rudders in a lot of detail. (I even
> helped with the fairing of Aroha's rudders) and much as I think they satisfy
> the requirements, as mentioned by Rudolf, they have balance problems if only
> partly down. It is possible to get round this with a curved blade but not
> easy and I have other considerations due to the flare on the inside of the
> hull I wish to incorporate. I was also considering sliding the rudder in
> side a barrel to allow further retraction but the bearings are more
> expensive to get right. Torlon balls and careful bearing surfaces are
> required with the larger diameter. The kick up system could still be based
> on a fuse. Money aside this could be a system that works well. --- In
> harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, George Kuck <chesapeake410@ ...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Robert ,
>> I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick
>> up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a
>> problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board
>> case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder
>> upgrade plans.
>> http://www.f- boatmart. com/home. php?cat=255
>>
>> I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do
>> not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for
>> Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger
>> board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way
>> up for shallow water and it can still kick up.
>>
>> Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a
>> dagger board rudder ?
>>
>> Happy sailing,
>> George Kuck
>> Chestertown, Md.
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
>> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things
>> To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
>> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into
>> the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am
>> pretty impressed at the rate of progress.
>> There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami
>> Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the light
>> that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some
>> house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in
>> the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and
>> very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next
>> March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a
>> promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same
>> line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld
>> and get some sailing in.
>> I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still
>> not sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or
>> retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic
>> rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders
>> that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the
>> bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and
>> allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In
>> harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote:
>> >
>> > hi robert
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> Recent Activity
>>
>>
>> 5
>> New PhotosVisit Your Group
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo!7 360°
>> Start a blog
>> Public or private-
>> it's your choice.
>>
>> Y!7 Toolbar
>> Get it Free!
>> easy 1-click access
>> to your groups.
>>
>> Yahoo!7 Groups
>> Start a group
>> in 3 easy steps.
>> Connect with others.
>> .
>>
>
>
>
Crowther tried barrell rudders on some designs (Southern Ocean 50 if memory serves me right). They claimed so much friction that steering got too heavy. It is easy to understand that barrel rudder is hard to make in a way that keeps system friction low enough. I don't know if they still have it or changed to conventional rudders. Kick up feature seems to come with heavy price on steering on proas.
Arto
--- On Fri, 7/10/09, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
From: Robert <cateran1949@...> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders To: harryproa@... Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 3:07 PM
HI George , I have studied Rare Birds and Aroha's rudders in a lot of detail. (I even helped with the fairing of Aroha's rudders) and much as I think they satisfy the requirements, as mentioned by Rudolf, they have balance problems if only partly down. It is possible to get round this with a curved blade but not easy and I have other considerations due to the flare on the inside of the hull I wish to incorporate. I was also considering sliding the rudder in side a barrel to allow further retraction but the bearings are more expensive to get right. Torlon balls and careful bearing surfaces are required with the larger diameter. The kick up system could still be based on a fuse. Money aside this could be a system that works well. --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, George Kuck
<chesapeake410@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Robert , > I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder upgrade plans. > http://www.f- boatmart. com/home. php?cat=255 > > I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way up for shallow water and it can still kick up. > > Rob,
what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a dagger board rudder ? > > Happy sailing, > George Kuck > Chestertown, Md. > > > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM > > > > > > > > > Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am pretty impressed at the rate of progress. > There is
a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the light that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld and get some sailing in. > I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still not sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way.
I have looked at rudders that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote: > > > > hi robert > > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > 5 > New PhotosVisit Your Group > > > > Yahoo!7 360° > Start a blog > Public or private- > it's your choice. > > Y!7 Toolbar > Get it Free! > easy 1-click access > to your groups. > > Yahoo!7 Groups > Start a group > in 3 easy steps. > Connect with others. > . >
--- On Fri, 10/7/09, Arto Hakkarainen <ahakkara@...> wrote:
From: Arto Hakkarainen <ahakkara@...> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders To: harryproa@... Date: Friday, 10 July, 2009, 10:36 PM
Crowther tried barrell rudders on some designs (Southern Ocean 50 if memory serves me right). They claimed so much friction that steering got too heavy. It is easy to understand that barrel rudder is hard to make in a way that keeps system friction low enough. I don't know if they still have it or changed to conventional rudders. Kick up feature seems to come with heavy price on steering on proas.
Arto
--- On Fri, 7/10/09, Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:
From: Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 3:07 PM
HI George , I have studied Rare Birds and Aroha's rudders in a lot of detail. (I even helped with the fairing of Aroha's rudders) and much as I think they satisfy the requirements, as mentioned by Rudolf, they have balance problems if only partly down. It is possible to get round this with a curved blade but not easy and I have other considerations due to the flare on the inside of the hull I wish to incorporate. I was also considering sliding the rudder in side a barrel to allow further retraction but the bearings are more expensive to get right. Torlon balls and careful bearing surfaces are required with the larger diameter. The kick up system could still be based on a fuse. Money aside this could be a system that works well. --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, George Kuck <chesapeake410@ ...> wrote: > > Hello
Robert , > I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder upgrade plans. > http://www.f- boatmart. com/home. php?cat=255 > > I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way up for shallow water and it can still kick up. > > Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa
plans, Is it a dagger board rudder ? > > Happy sailing, > George Kuck > Chestertown, Md. > > > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM > > > > > > > > > Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am pretty impressed at the rate of progress. > There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami Desert ticking away (green slime that
grows under rocks living on the light that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld and get some sailing in. > I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still not sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the
bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote: > > > > hi robert > > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > 5 > New PhotosVisit Your Group > > > > Yahoo!7 360° > Start a blog > Public or private- > it's your choice. > > Y!7 Toolbar > Get it Free! > easy 1-click access > to your groups. > > Yahoo!7 Groups > Start a group > in 3 easy steps. > Connect with others. > . >
On BD I wasn't too keen on trying to test the kick up feature.
These blades are very large even if they weigh only 25 kgs. It would be a hassle to reset if the sheer pin broke especially in any wind.
My problem with this sort of system is that you are gonna get caught sailing with the blade half way up some time just because it is possible and because of murphy...
That would really test the steering mechanism and at best it would only be hard to steer the boat and come out with the steering gear undamaged.
Also the blades are twisting pretty weird because of the forward rake which seems to influence steering. Therefore the blades have to be very stiff. (stiffer than the ones on BD)
It should be possible to find an alternative way to hold the cassette in place. Maybe with a fixed pivot at the top and a line in a
"shock-release cleat". There are cleats that release on high loads. I do believe that these solutions only work up to a certain size
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders
Hello,
I do not think the balance would be a problem as the rudder would be most or all of way down when sailing and I would only be pulling it to a minimum for steerage when motoring up creek to slip in less than 2' of water (mud bottom) at low speed. I do like having the rudder on the LW hull as in the original BD rudders, I just think it is more aesthetically better looking and gets the bearing further down for better support.
I understand there was a problem with original rudders on BD but can that system work OK on the smaller 12 M Harryproa as it was used on Bain's Arora ? Can a kick up casset/daggerboard rudder be used so if it does kick up, it is a simple matter to reset it ? Would either a releasable hold down or elastic cord hold down be better than a "fuse" type pin that would be more difficult to replace in a hurry and may get jammed ?
Happy sailing
George Kuck
Chestertown, Md.
PS
Any news on Arora's where abouts ? I hope he didn't get stranded somewhere.
--- On Fri, 7/10/09, Robert <cateran1949@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
From: Robert <cateran1949@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 8:07 AM
HI George , I have studied Rare Birds and Aroha's rudders in a lot of detail. (I even helped with the fairing of Aroha's rudders) and much as I think they satisfy the requirements, as mentioned by Rudolf, they have balance problems if only partly down. It is possible to get round this with a curved blade but not easy and I have other considerations due to the flare on the inside of the hull I wish to incorporate. I was also considering sliding the rudder in side a barrel to allow further retraction but the bearings are more expensive to get right. Torlon balls and careful bearing surfaces are required with the larger diameter. The kick up system could still be based on a fuse. Money aside this could be a system that works well. --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, George Kuck <chesapeake410@ ...> wrote: > > Hello Robert , > I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder upgrade plans. > http://www.f- boatmart. com/home. php?cat=255 > > I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way up for shallow water and it can still kick up. > > Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a dagger board rudder ? > > Happy sailing, > George Kuck > Chestertown, Md. > > > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote: > > > From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM > > > > > > > > > Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am pretty impressed at the rate of progress. > There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the light that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld and get some sailing in. > I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still not sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote: > > > > hi robert > > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > 5 > New PhotosVisit Your Group > > > > Yahoo!7 360° > Start a blog > Public or private- > it's your choice. > > Y!7 Toolbar > Get it Free! > easy 1-click access > to your groups. > > Yahoo!7 Groups > Start a group > in 3 easy steps. > Connect with others. > . >
Daggerboard rudders which kick up are fine so long as everything is
braced all the way up. The board kicking out the back of the case is
an awful solution as it wrecks the case on the way. The new boats
have beam mounted rudders with either the Blind Date solution or a
tube which rotates around the beam.
regards,
Rob
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM, George Kuck<chesapeake410@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Robert ,
> I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick
> up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a
> problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board
> case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder
> upgrade plans.
> http://www.f-boatmart.com/home.php?cat=255
>
> I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do
> not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for
> Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger
> board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way
> up for shallow water and it can still kick up.
>
> Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a
> dagger board rudder ?
>
> Happy sailing,
> George Kuck
> Chestertown, Md.
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things
> To: harryproa@...
> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM
>
> Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into
> the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am
> pretty impressed at the rate of progress.
> There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami
> Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the light
> that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some
> house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in
> the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and
> very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next
> March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a
> promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same
> line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld
> and get some sailing in.
> I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still not
> sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or
> retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic
> rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders
> that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the
> bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and
> allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In
> harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote:
>>
>> hi robert
>>
>>
> Recent Activity
>
> 5
> New Photos
>
> Visit Your Group
> Yahoo!7 360°
> Start a blog
>
> Public or private-
>
> it's your choice.
>
> Y!7 Toolbar
> Get it Free!
>
> easy 1-click access
>
> to your groups.
>
> Yahoo!7 Groups
> Start a group
>
> in 3 easy steps.
>
> Connect with others.
>
> .
>
>
The example I was referring to was the second item down, where the blade is in a case that can kick up with no damage to the case and could also be easily reset just like a swing back type of kick up blade. This give advantage of dager board and swing back in same rudder.
Can swing back case with dagger board be used on 12 M Harryproa mounted on LW hull or is this already in design ?.
--- On Mon, 7/13/09, Rob Denney <harryproa@...> wrote:
From: Rob Denney <harryproa@...> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders To: harryproa@... Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 7:27 AM
Daggerboard rudders which kick up are fine so long as everything is braced all the way up. The board kicking out the back of the case is an awful solution as it wrecks the case on the way. The new boats have beam mounted rudders with either the Blind Date solution or a tube which rotates around the beam.
regards,
Rob
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM, George Kuck<chesapeake410@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Hello Robert , > I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick > up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a > problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger board > case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look
at the F32 rudder > upgrade plans. > http://www.f- boatmart. com/home. php?cat=255 > > I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do > not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for > Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger > board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part way > up for shallow water and it can still kick up. > > Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a > dagger board rudder ? > > Happy sailing, > George Kuck > Chestertown, Md. > > > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote: > > From: Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM > > Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into > the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am > pretty impressed at the rate of progress. > There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami > Desert ticking away (green slime
that grows under rocks living on the light > that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some > house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in > the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap and > very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next > March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a > promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the same > line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to Qld > and get some sailing in. > I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still not > sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or > retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic > rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have
looked at rudders > that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the > bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and > allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In > harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote: >> >> hi robert >> >> > Recent Activity > > 5 > New Photos > > Visit Your Group > Yahoo!7 360° > Start a blog > > Public or private- > > it's your choice. > > Y!7 Toolbar > Get it Free! > > easy 1-click access > > to your groups. > > Yahoo!7 Groups > Start a group > > in 3 easy steps. > > Connect with others. > > . > >
That is the type of solution required, but the pivot pin would need to
be a serious bit of well supported gear if it is going to work in a
decent broach in the tri, and even more so on a Harry with the bigger
rudders and higher side loads
This is not in the HP design, but could be. I still prefer a lifting
shaft or a telescoping rudder blade.
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 8:12 PM, George Kuck<chesapeake410@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hell Rob,
> The example I was referring to was the second item down, where the blade is
> in a case that can kick up with no damage to the case and could also be
> easily reset just like a swing back type of kick up blade. This give
> advantage of dager board and swing back in same rudder.
>
> Can swing back case with dagger board be used on 12 M Harryproa mounted on
> LW hull or is this already in design ?.
>
> --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Rob Denney <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> From: Rob Denney <harryproa@...>
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things/ Rudders
> To: harryproa@...
> Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 7:27 AM
>
> Daggerboard rudders which kick up are fine so long as everything is
> braced all the way up. The board kicking out the back of the case is
> an awful solution as it wrecks the case on the way. The new boats
> have beam mounted rudders with either the Blind Date solution or a
> tube which rotates around the beam.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM, George Kuck<chesapeake410@ yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Robert ,
>> I think it should be possible to have a daggerboard rudder that can kick
>> up. It would work on a ruder that can rotate 270 degrees but would be a
>> problem on 360 degree rudders. All that is needed is a kick up dagger
>> board
>> case. This is what is used on the F32. Take a look at the F32 rudder
>> upgrade plans.
>> http://www.f- boatmart. com/home. php?cat=255
>>
>> I think the original rudder on Blind Date is a dagger board type but I do
>> not know if it can kick up. What ever happened with the new rudder for
>> Blind date ? It should be possible to make a kick up case that the dagger
>> board can go through. That would allow you to raise dagger rudder part
>> way
>> up for shallow water and it can still kick up.
>>
>> Rob, what type of rudder is on the current 12 M Harryproa plans, Is it a
>> dagger board rudder ?
>>
>> Happy sailing,
>> George Kuck
>> Chestertown, Md.
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:
>>
>> From: Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk>
>> Subject: [harryproa] Re: MODERN NAMES of things
>> To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
>> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:33 AM
>>
>> Sounds like you've got the winter blues. You certainly have got stuck into
>> the rebuilding but can imagine it can seem interminable at times. I am
>> pretty impressed at the rate of progress.
>> There is a plant biology paper on Hypolithic Cyanobacteria in the Tanami
>> Desert ticking away (green slime that grows under rocks living on the
>> light
>> that manages to get through the quartz) but mainly I am organising some
>> house plans for moving back down to Eden. It is to be a mud brick house in
>> the town so it may cause a bit of a stir, but should be reasonably cheap
>> and
>> very energy efficient. I was hoping the admiral was going to retire next
>> March so I could get back to being a beach bum again but she was give a
>> promotion and decided to hang in for another year or so. She is in the
>> same
>> line of business as Rob's wife. We plan to visit Rob when he moves up to
>> Qld
>> and get some sailing in.
>> I have not changed what I want in a Harry for a while now, but am still
>> not
>> sure what what to go for in the rudders. It's is easy to have kick up or
>> retracting but difficult to get both. I have played around with telescopic
>> rudders and a shaft that moves up a little way. I have looked at rudders
>> that kick up by pivoting on the shaft and by the shaft letting go at the
>> bearings.I am tending to go for the shaft letting go at the bearings and
>> allowing a small amount of retraction and maybe a sacrificial tip. - In
>> harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote:
>>>
>>> hi robert
>>>
>>>
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