Hi Robert &al

Sounds good. One small modification, if I might: Perhaps the two "triangles"
could be replaced by two pyramids, with the pivot point at their apices (just
found out that is the plural of apex. Ain't spellcheckers great?). The base of
one is attached to the LWH and the other holds the motor. That should take care
of the wave contact. Take a bit off each apex to give enough room to mount a
substantial hinge since it will have to support the entire weight of the motor
while it is swung around.

Enjoy

Jim Baltaxe
ITS Desktop Support
Victoria University of Wellington
NEW ZEALAND
(04) 463 5018 or 029 200 6982


Klein bottle for rent.  Inquire within.
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" --
Albert Einstein


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grona Jr, Robert J. [mailto:PPL_RJG@...]
> Sent: Friday, 4 July 2003 7:58
> To: harryproa@...
> Subject: RE: [harryproa] outboard mounting for Harry+
>
>
> Been thinking about this outboard mount for awhile so I'll take a try!
> Rob's side mounted flip back and forth rudders gave me the
> idea sometime
> back.
>
> Draw two right triangles (90,45,45 degrees)in the horizontal
> plane with
> a hinge point (pin will be vertical) connecting the two
> triangles at the
> 90 degree corner of each triangle. Give the triangle some
> depth (say 12
> inches plus) in the vertical.
>
> Mount the long leg of the triangle horizontally to the LWH
> amidships or
> so. Mount the outboard on the similar leg of the other triangle. Exact
> height of the bracket above water level will depend on many variables
> such as motor shaft length, etc.
>
> Shape each triangle bottom to reduce/minimize the affects of wave
> contact (perhaps a sled bottom for the triangle with the motor).
>
> Add a catch to hold the triangle legs together so the motor
> is parallel
> to hull centerline in one direction. Release the catch; swing
> the motor
> 180 degrees and secure with a catch in the opposite direction. Catch
> could be designed to be substantial so as to remove the load from the
> vertical hinge assembly.
>
> The outboard position will be upstream of the rudders (when the side
> mount rudder is completely developed) providing a stream of
> water across
> the rudder therefore excellent control.
>
> Now back to this beam folding puzzle.
>
> Bob G.
>
> PS Looking at the pictures of the packed up New England Harry
> indicates
> there will be enough room between the LWH and the bottom of the WWH
> bridgedeck to accommodate such a mount as I have described
> depending on
> the length of the triangle legs selected.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

No problem for me except the mounting and motor swivel system weren't
designed for such plus no spray reduction or protection. Additionally
most lifting devices are not designed for sideways loading.

I am all for making it simple and reliable so maybe this is part of the
solution.

Keep the ideas flowing!

Thanks Bob G.

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter C. King [mailto:pcking@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 3:58 PM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: [harryproa] another outboard mount for Harry+



Robert,

Most outboards steer with a swivel mount that connects to the transom or
lifting outboard mount on the transom. Stops limit the arc to avoid
digging unplanned drain holes with the prop. Why not modify the stops on
the mount so that the motor swivels through 180 degrees? Install a
lifting engine mount flush with the lee hull as if it were a transom.
That should move the motor out far enough so that the prop doesn't
contact the hull and allow the motor to turn fore and aft. The lifting
mechanism on the mount would even serve to raise the motor from the
water.

If the motor is mounted amidships it would be accessible from the net
walkway. It would be handy for pushing the boat into the dock too. Lift
the rudders, set the motor in the center position and Harry goes
sideways. Wouldn't that be fodder for proa legends?

Peter C. King





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robert,

Most outboards steer with a swivel mount that connects to the transom or lifting
outboard mount on the transom. Stops limit the arc to avoid digging unplanned
drain holes with the prop. Why not modify the stops on the mount so that the
motor swivels through 180 degrees? Install a lifting engine mount flush with the
lee hull as if it were a transom. That should move the motor out far enough so
that the prop doesn't contact the hull and allow the motor to turn fore and aft.
The lifting mechanism on the mount would even serve to raise the motor from the
water.

If the motor is mounted amidships it would be accessible from the net walkway.
It would be handy for pushing the boat into the dock too. Lift the rudders, set
the motor in the center position and Harry goes sideways. Wouldn't that be
fodder for proa legends?

Peter C. King

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Grona Jr, Robert J.
   To: harryproa@...
   Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 3:57 PM
   Subject: RE: [harryproa] outboard mounting for Harry+


   Been thinking about this outboard mount for awhile so I'll take a try!
   Rob's side mounted flip back and forth rudders gave me the idea sometime
   back.

   Draw two right triangles (90,45,45 degrees)in the horizontal plane with
   a hinge point (pin will be vertical) connecting the two triangles at the
   90 degree corner of each triangle. Give the triangle some depth (say 12
   inches plus) in the vertical.

   Mount the long leg of the triangle horizontally to the LWH amidships or
   so. Mount the outboard on the similar leg of the other triangle. Exact
   height of the bracket above water level will depend on many variables
   such as motor shaft length, etc.

   Shape each triangle bottom to reduce/minimize the affects of wave
   contact (perhaps a sled bottom for the triangle with the motor).

   Add a catch to hold the triangle legs together so the motor is parallel
   to hull centerline in one direction. Release the catch; swing the motor
   180 degrees and secure with a catch in the opposite direction. Catch
   could be designed to be substantial so as to remove the load from the
   vertical hinge assembly.

   The outboard position will be upstream of the rudders (when the side
   mount rudder is completely developed) providing a stream of water across
   the rudder therefore excellent control.

   Now back to this beam folding puzzle.

   Bob G.

   PS Looking at the pictures of the packed up New England Harry indicates
   there will be enough room between the LWH and the bottom of the WWH
   bridgedeck to accommodate such a mount as I have described depending on
   the length of the triangle legs selected.





   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   harryproa-unsubscribe@...



   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Been thinking about this outboard mount for awhile so I'll take a try!
Rob's side mounted flip back and forth rudders gave me the idea sometime
back.

Draw two right triangles (90,45,45 degrees)in the horizontal plane with
a hinge point (pin will be vertical) connecting the two triangles at the
90 degree corner of each triangle. Give the triangle some depth (say 12
inches plus) in the vertical.

Mount the long leg of the triangle horizontally to the LWH amidships or
so. Mount the outboard on the similar leg of the other triangle. Exact
height of the bracket above water level will depend on many variables
such as motor shaft length, etc.

Shape each triangle bottom to reduce/minimize the affects of wave
contact (perhaps a sled bottom for the triangle with the motor).

Add a catch to hold the triangle legs together so the motor is parallel
to hull centerline in one direction. Release the catch; swing the motor
180 degrees and secure with a catch in the opposite direction. Catch
could be designed to be substantial so as to remove the load from the
vertical hinge assembly.

The outboard position will be upstream of the rudders (when the side
mount rudder is completely developed) providing a stream of water across
the rudder therefore excellent control.

Now back to this beam folding puzzle.

Bob G.

PS Looking at the pictures of the packed up New England Harry indicates
there will be enough room between the LWH and the bottom of the WWH
bridgedeck to accommodate such a mount as I have described depending on
the length of the triangle legs selected.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Le Jeudi 3 Juillet 2003 15:08, Rob Denney a écrit :
> Just spoken to Mark about kiri usage.  I was wrong about the kiri amounts
> required.  The correct amount for the hull and beams is 73 sq m, and Mark
> reckons there is a fair bit of wastage from tapering planks and scarffing.
> He rightly also suggests that it would be a pain for an overseas builder to
> run out.  He therefore reccomends 20% extra, making a total 88 sq m.  Sorry
> for misleading you.

Hi!

How long (max) and wide to you advise the kiri battens to be? Is it usefull to
make it of various width depending on the curvature of the hull ?

--
Nicolas Vivier
www.icarai.net --> construire... et naviguer !
tél : +33 (0)2 33 67 60 57
Empreinte PGP : D2B0 D8A4 B4D8 D012 53BB  F59F 0345 985C C09B 85B7

G'day,

Which boom are you going to have in the plans?

Good question!  I like the diamond one (lighter, cheaper) but it is not the
absolute answer yet.  Niggly little unforeseen problems like having to duck
under it to get to the mast, and it being a bit higher up the mast than the
box are negatives which I am looking at solutions for.  Plans for both will
be available.
>
Someone on the wharram site had figures for Kiri as follows:

"Back on the paulownia (Kiri) subject - the figures came from tests
carried out by the Faculty of Engineering and Surveying at University
of Southern Queensland. Bending Strength - peak stress 24% of WRC and
flexural modulus 34% of WRC. These figures were given to me by the
supplier, so I will see if I can get some comment from him. Apart
from these figures, everything else about paulownia seems positive."

Sounds pretty weak, but the boats aren't showing it, so who cares?

Kiri is funny stuff.  There are large differences in properties of trees
older and younger than 10 years, with the younger stuff being very brittle.
Australia has a lot of kiri plantations, but they are all less than 10 years
old.  Consequently, it is imported from China.  Tests done by an independant
crew in Queensland indicated that kiri was superior to cedar in Aus standard
drop tests (100 mm/4" ball dropped from increasing heights onto a 600mm/2'
squear sample.  This is not a strength test, but is probably more relevant
for our boats.  Most hulls that are thick enough not to flex are plenty
strong enough.  We have built 12m/40' trimarans from 19mm/3/4" long grain
balsa wood with no strength problems.  Be interested to know a reference for
the numbers quoted, as they seem excessive.
>
> This is the material we use, as it does not have the bloom problems
of WEST,
> and is a simpler 2:1 mix ratio.

DO you also use BC on the carbon spars?  Any sense whether this
explains the higher than expected flex?

No, see previous mail.  The flex in my old mast was not a materials problem,
but a dimension one.  It is 90 mm/3.6" diameter, whereas the current one is
160mm/6.3".  As stiffness is a cube function, the difference is noticable.
Looks like we will be cutting the bottom off this mast and using it on the
folding prototype.  Current mast is very stiff. 40 mm/1.5" deflection with
100 kgs/220 lbs midway between the top bearing and the hounds.  Above the
hounds flexes nicely in a breeze.  Photos when the weather here settles down

regards,

Rob


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G'day,

Just spoken to Mark about kiri usage.  I was wrong about the kiri amounts
required.  The correct amount for the hull and beams is 73 sq m, and Mark
reckons there is a fair bit of wastage from tapering planks and scarffing.
He rightly also suggests that it would be a pain for an overseas builder to
run out.  He therefore reccomends 20% extra, making a total 88 sq m.  Sorry
for misleading you.

The Epon and othe bulk epoxies epoxy works fine.  What you need to watch is
the sensitivity issues.  The Gougeons, Boat Cote, Systemn Three etc guys put
a lot of effort into making their products as safe as possible.  There are
very few things worse than epoxy allergy.  You pays your money and takes
your choice.

BoatCote is not for the masts, although it would work.  The masts need a
long pot life epoxy.  These usually have higher physical properties, and
need a post cure.

Regards,

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@...>
To: <harryproa@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 3:26 PM
Subject: [harryproa] Re: materials and costs


> > > Rob, two things if you please.
> > >
> > > 70 sqmeters of kiri equates to 762 square feet which is a real
> savings
> > > on materials for a cat or tri in the 25 to 28 foot range. Is this
> for
> > > real?
>
> I got some pretty good deck cedar at HD for 1 dollar a square foot.
> Buying clear WRC from a wholesaler costs about 1100 us including the
> 25% wastage for strips, assuming 762.  The kiri price is fabulous for
> strips.
>
> Anyone use epon epoxy for this kind of construction?  Apparently one
> can get it for much less that WEST etc...
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> > Rob, two things if you please.
> >
> > 70 sqmeters of kiri equates to 762 square feet which is a real
savings
> > on materials for a cat or tri in the 25 to 28 foot range. Is this
for
> > real?

I got some pretty good deck cedar at HD for 1 dollar a square foot.
Buying clear WRC from a wholesaler costs about 1100 us including the
25% wastage for strips, assuming 762.  The kiri price is fabulous for
strips.

Anyone use epon epoxy for this kind of construction?  Apparently one
can get it for much less that WEST etc...

>
> The spar with the original box section boom rotates with the boom.
When I
> fitted a wing mast on Harrigami, the mast rotated seperately to the
box
> boom.  Worked well.  The current boom is a diamond shaped
structure, tied to
> the boom.

Which boom are you going to have in the plans?



>
> For harrigami or harry:
>
> 400 gsm double bias glass  150 sq m $960
> 70 sq m 43 x 8mm kiri $2,050
> 300 litres Boat Cote epoxy resin $3,200 with choice of hardeners.

Someone on the wharram site had figures for Kiri as follows:

"Back on the paulownia (Kiri) subject – the figures came from tests
carried out by the Faculty of Engineering and Surveying at University
of Southern Queensland. Bending Strength – peak stress 24% of WRC and
flexural modulus 34% of WRC. These figures were given to me by the
supplier, so I will see if I can get some comment from him. Apart
from these figures, everything else about paulownia seems positive."

Sounds pretty weak, but the boats aren't showing it, so who cares?

>
> This is the material we use, as it does not have the bloom problems
of WEST,
> and is a simpler 2:1 mix ratio.

DO you also use BC on the carbon spars?  Any sense whether this
explains the higher than expected flex?

Well the 180 thing isn't a problem since the spar moves in the right
direction for the one the boat is now headed in.  The 90 degree thing
is a problem of sorts if it is the way to sail downwind.

Complexity is always a problems, but cutting holes all over the boat,
and running wiring everywhere just sounds easy in cyberspace.  I
remember Jim Brown saying accidly how sick it made him to cut holes
in the boat for lights, and they were all internal.

I am just finishing up the great aft deck replacement project on my
trimaran, and suffice it to say one bad hole in a wooden boat can
mean a lot of work down the road.

The thing about all this stuff is that even if the lights are saying
what the rule book says they should, there are enough things
happening, in weird ways, and at weird speeds, to confuse anyone
unfamiliar with the concept.

> We are currently working on solar charging battery powered stand
alone units that require no wiring at all.
> They will last about 10 years in the sun and will cost around $20US
(read disposable)

Yeah I have one of those in the backyard, and it even looks like a
masthead kinda thing.  The only way I know it isn't sailing gear, is
the price.

G'day,

The new design will be a stretched Harrigami.  A removable cockpit cover is
on the list of things to do.

A permanent cover is excessively heavy and too much windage.

Regards,

Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Baltaxe" <jim.baltaxe@...>
To: "Harryproa Mailing List (E-mail)" <harryproa@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 7:31 AM
Subject: [harryproa] Updated Harry


> Hi Rob & Al
>
> I'm just wondering about the possibly neglected original Harry Proa. The
web site says that the plans are being modernised a la Harrigami. Will the
new design be similar to Visionarry? More specifically will it have the
covered cockpit or will it be completely open like Harrigami?
>
> Which would the others on the list prefer?
>
> Enjoy
>
> Jim Baltaxe
> ITS Desktop Support
> Victoria University of Wellington
> NEW ZEALAND
> (04) 463 5018 or 029 200 6982
>
>
> Klein bottle for rent.  Inquire within.
> "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would
it?" -- Albert Einstein
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

G'day,

It is indeed for real.  On the boat for Maine, which used a bit more
material, these numbers were spot on, and there was not enough waste to
light afire big enough bto boil a kettle.  Have a look at
http://www.harryproa.com/plans.htm#material  for the complete list.  The
materials quantities are correct, but with price changes, i am not sure we
could still do the entire package for $aus20k.

400 gsm is between 12 and 13 ounces.  Either will do.
Regards,

Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grona Jr, Robert J." <PPL_RJG@...>
To: <harryproa@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:52 PM
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Re: materials and costs


> Rob, two things if you please.
>
> 70 sqmeters of kiri equates to 762 square feet which is a real savings
> on materials for a cat or tri in the 25 to 28 foot range. Is this for
> real? plus maybe the ply under the bunks i.e. bridge deck bottom for
> another 100 sqft of so?
>
> Does the 400 gsm equate to about 13 oz per yard???
>
> Thanks Bob G.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Denney [mailto:proa@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 8:23 AM
> To: harryproa@...
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Nav Lights... and flags !
>
>
>  snip------------
>
> For harrigami or harry:
>
> 400 gsm double bias glass  150 sq m $960
> 70 sq m 43 x 8mm kiri $2,050
> 300 litres Boat Cote epoxy resin $3,200 with choice of hardeners.
>
> snip -------------------
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Richardson" <atrichardson@...>

Although Rob says you could pull one up for racing I suspect that if you did
the bow would fall away off waves because the CE is ahead of the rudder.
This would be good when surfing on a reach but would suck when pointing
> Rob would this be right?


G'day,
Lifting the front rudder, and maybe partially lifting the aft rudder  is
only done off the wind.  Upwind, both are needed for leeway prevention.

Regards,

Rob

-Wouldn't it be lovely to be sailing at night and the biggest stress
was to flick a switch to reverse the nav lights--
This is probably a bit flippant as it might be the one thing you
forget under stress and it is not nice to be run over because someone
thinks your going not coming.From my experience there is a good
chance they won't see you anyway if they are a big freighter, and you
need to keep a good lookout and be ready to speak to them politely on
the radio.
About the flag...From what I recall it is a maritime requirement that
your flag of origin flies from the stern and courtesy flags and
signalling flags from rigging on the mainmast. I may have got this
wrong but if not, a small flag stick with the country of origin flag
on each end of a hull ---windward would be more acccessible , leeward
more visible--- and other flags on the rigging.
Robert

In harryproa@..., "Rob Denney" <proa@t...> wrote:
> G'day,
>
> Sture's suggestion is the only one that would work, so far.  A mast
head
> tricolour needs a non rotating  tube inside the mast.  This is
possible, but
> plays havoc at the base where it is rigidly fixed.
>
> The spar with the original box section boom rotates with the boom.
When I
> fitted a wing mast on Harrigami, the mast rotated seperately to the
box
> boom.  Worked well.  The current boom is a diamond shaped
structure, tied to
> the boom.  At present it more or less rotates with the boom, future
versions
> will rotate independantly.  There will be a discussion of the pros
and cons
> of each on the web page in the near future.
>
> Sture and others, you asked for some indicative materials prices.
The
> following are delivered to the wharf in Brisbane, Australia.    I
can get
> quotes to any other port, but they usually have a gap for "local
charges" at
> the other end.  Better that you make enquiries from local shipping
agents.
> Any problems, let me know.
>
> For harrigami or harry:
>
> 400 gsm double bias glass  150 sq m $960
> 70 sq m 43 x 8mm kiri $2,050
> 300 litres Boat Cote epoxy resin $3,200 with choice of hardeners.
>
> This is the material we use, as it does not have the bloom problems
of WEST,
> and is a simpler 2:1 mix ratio.   http://www.boatcraft.com.au for
> information on Boat Cote
>
> We can also supply all the other materials required.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sture.erickson@f...>
> To: <harryproa@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 7:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Nav Lights... and flags !
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Couldn´t the nav lights be mounted on a pole on each end of the
leeward
> hull (cannot be windward because they would be blanketed by the
sails). I
> remember Rob suggested something like this. On each pole would be a
> combination red/green one monted high enough to be visible over the
front
> part of the WW hull (within the recuired angle) and a stern light
lower
> down. They would be wired so the red/green one in the bow and the
stern one
> in the stern, obviously :o) are connected. At the shunts there must
be a
> switch of some kind, automatic or manual, which turns on the other
pair.
> This would be enough for sailing.
>
> For motoring just the red/green light would be used together with a
white
> masthead light. This should be legal as far as I know. Any sector
light
> cannot be mounted on a rotating spar. It does not always rotate 180
degrees
> or.........
>
> By the way, how much does the spar rotate when shunting upwind?
Does it
> rotate little enough for the sail to keep a clean leeward side with
the
> mast on the ww side?
>
> Could the national flag be hoisted along one of the two shrouds?
But how
> high? And the courtesy flag and other banners on the other, higher
up? Or
> on the same one?
>
> Regards
> Sture Erickson
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi Rob & Al

I'm just wondering about the possibly neglected original Harry Proa. The web
site says that the plans are being modernised a la Harrigami. Will the new
design be similar to Visionarry? More specifically will it have the covered
cockpit or will it be completely open like Harrigami?

Which would the others on the list prefer?

Enjoy

Jim Baltaxe
ITS Desktop Support
Victoria University of Wellington
NEW ZEALAND
(04) 463 5018 or 029 200 6982


Klein bottle for rent.  Inquire within.
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" --
Albert Einstein

At 02:15 AM 7/2/2003, you wrote:
>Giday Han
>Do Jan and Rudolf intend to make the space in the LW hull accessible?

Yes, I understood they want to make some of the space in the lee-hull
accessible for storage.
I think any owner would want to be able to inspect the inside of the lee-hull.

>Progress looks great.
>Have they been able to keep the boat to budget so far?

I understood the budget needed to be adjusted upward.  Some caused by more
expensive materials in Europe,
and some by taking more time for the construction.  In this case more time
translates into more paid labor.  :-(

>I know Rob isn't a fan of paint ( it weighs to much ) but do you think the
>finish on the boat any less important than the construction. True
>obsessive attention to detail in the paintwork is costly and time
>consuming but it also serves an important purpose ie protection of all the
>hard work that has been put into building it in the first place. Epoxy
>will break down in UV light.

On this boat the weight of paint is absolutely a "non-issue".  A fair hull
to begin with reduces the need for filler.  This is where you gain weight
with unsuitable materials and techniques.

>These boats look to have a significant advantage in cost due to the lack
>of major fittings ie chainplates, winches, pulleys etc

True, to some extend.  But again, the cost of winches mean nothing when you
calculate the cost of a boat of 5 years or more.  I estimate a berth in the
marina for this boat at US $3500  for just one summer.

>I am interested to see if this flows into cost savings at the painting
>stage as well ( less taping off and mount remove paint and remount of
>fittings). Quicker painting time ( fewer fiddle areas )
>If this is true compared to an ordinary boat/cat/tri, then some of these
>apparent savings could be used to buy better paint and or professional labour.

I'm used to painting before you mount the hardware, and a good paint over
epoxy will last you at least 8 years in our climate.  When repainting the
boat; there it would mean considerable savings.

>I don't know if they are at the navigation light fitting stage but have
>they indicated how they will overcome the port/starboard/stern lighting dilemma

Wouldn't know...,  and they aren't fitting lights yet.

>I'm interested to hear anyone's comments on all of this as well

I would opt for red&green on each of the hulls, if only to keep the light
from shining on the decks.
Also, separated lights would indicate the width of the vessel.
On shunting, switch the lights by hand until this switching becomes your
biggest problem  ;-)

Regards,  Han.

Rob, two things if you please.

70 sqmeters of kiri equates to 762 square feet which is a real savings
on materials for a cat or tri in the 25 to 28 foot range. Is this for
real? plus maybe the ply under the bunks i.e. bridge deck bottom for
another 100 sqft of so?

Does the 400 gsm equate to about 13 oz per yard???

Thanks Bob G.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Denney [mailto:proa@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 8:23 AM
To: harryproa@...
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Nav Lights... and flags !


  snip------------

For harrigami or harry:

400 gsm double bias glass  150 sq m $960
70 sq m 43 x 8mm kiri $2,050
300 litres Boat Cote epoxy resin $3,200 with choice of hardeners.

snip -------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G'day,

Sture's suggestion is the only one that would work, so far.  A mast head
tricolour needs a non rotating  tube inside the mast.  This is possible, but
plays havoc at the base where it is rigidly fixed.

The spar with the original box section boom rotates with the boom.  When I
fitted a wing mast on Harrigami, the mast rotated seperately to the box
boom.  Worked well.  The current boom is a diamond shaped structure, tied to
the boom.  At present it more or less rotates with the boom, future versions
will rotate independantly.  There will be a discussion of the pros and cons
of each on the web page in the near future.

Sture and others, you asked for some indicative materials prices.  The
following are delivered to the wharf in Brisbane, Australia.    I can get
quotes to any other port, but they usually have a gap for "local charges" at
the other end.  Better that you make enquiries from local shipping agents.
Any problems, let me know.

For harrigami or harry:

400 gsm double bias glass  150 sq m $960
70 sq m 43 x 8mm kiri $2,050
300 litres Boat Cote epoxy resin $3,200 with choice of hardeners.

This is the material we use, as it does not have the bloom problems of WEST,
and is a simpler 2:1 mix ratio.   http://www.boatcraft.com.au for
information on Boat Cote

We can also supply all the other materials required.

Regards,

Rob

----- Original Message -----
From: <sture.erickson@...>
To: <harryproa@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Nav Lights... and flags !


Hi all,

Couldn´t the nav lights be mounted on a pole on each end of the leeward
hull (cannot be windward because they would be blanketed by the sails). I
remember Rob suggested something like this. On each pole would be a
combination red/green one monted high enough to be visible over the front
part of the WW hull (within the recuired angle) and a stern light lower
down. They would be wired so the red/green one in the bow and the stern one
in the stern, obviously :o) are connected. At the shunts there must be a
switch of some kind, automatic or manual, which turns on the other pair.
This would be enough for sailing.

For motoring just the red/green light would be used together with a white
masthead light. This should be legal as far as I know. Any sector light
cannot be mounted on a rotating spar. It does not always rotate 180 degrees
or.........

By the way, how much does the spar rotate when shunting upwind? Does it
rotate little enough for the sail to keep a clean leeward side with the
mast on the ww side?

Could the national flag be hoisted along one of the two shrouds? But how
high? And the courtesy flag and other banners on the other, higher up? Or
on the same one?

Regards
Sture Erickson


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Hi all,

Couldn´t the nav lights be mounted on a pole on each end of the leeward
hull (cannot be windward because they would be blanketed by the sails). I
remember Rob suggested something like this. On each pole would be a
combination red/green one monted high enough to be visible over the front
part of the WW hull (within the recuired angle) and a stern light lower
down. They would be wired so the red/green one in the bow and the stern one
in the stern, obviously :o) are connected. At the shunts there must be a
switch of some kind, automatic or manual, which turns on the other pair.
This would be enough for sailing.

For motoring just the red/green light would be used together with a white
masthead light. This should be legal as far as I know. Any sector light
cannot be mounted on a rotating spar. It does not always rotate 180 degrees
or.........

By the way, how much does the spar rotate when shunting upwind? Does it
rotate little enough for the sail to keep a clean leeward side with the
mast on the ww side?

Could the national flag be hoisted along one of the two shrouds? But how
high? And the courtesy flag and other banners on the other, higher up? Or
on the same one?

Regards
Sture Erickson

I would think that the reason for some boats having masthead lighting is
because of the effect of ocean swell hiding nav lights on hulls sometimes.
Better to have some lighting than none.
The same issue exists for rotating rigs and aerorig
What is different here is that the aero rig rotates 180 deg and the boat sails
both ways
The stacked lights work on boats that travel in one direction only
Dead downwind sailing would have the rig at 90 deg
What about stern lighting?
LED lights are a product of that I have a direct interest in. The company I work
for is well advanced in new technology and products in this field. It would
require a higher degree of complication than is necessary for nav lights to make
a system like you describe to work. Increased complication can only mean
decreased reliability
We are currently working on solar charging battery powered stand alone units
that require no wiring at all.
They will last about 10 years in the sun and will cost around $20US(read
disposable)
Any thoughts on the outboard yet?
Rgs Tony

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: proaconstrictor
   To: harryproa@...
   Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 4:34 PM
   Subject: [harryproa] Re: Nav Lights - was, Visionarry under construction in
the Netherlands


   How is the sparhead issue different than on any rotating rig,  where
   sparhead lights are in stacked sets with switches.

   Is downwind work asumed to be with the sails at 90 degrees?  That is
   only possible due to the aerorig config, one could have the sails set
   more conventionaly, or be tacking downwind, in which case sparhead
   lights would be fine.  I don't know enough about aerorigs to know
   what is the best way to sail them downwind

   It ought to be possible with LEDS to have any sparhead variable
   lighting configurations one wants including "Sale in aisle three".

   Further bad news is that one would have to be careful about twisting
   up the lights if they were operated off a wire, since the rig can
   360.  With LEDs, battery operation is at least a possibility.

   > I thought about the masthead nav lights but this would not work.
   Particularly with downwind work when the rig is a right angles to the
   boat.
   > Imagine approaching the proa from the WW side when it was going
   downwind and reading the nav lights to be coming straight at you. You
   cant see a stern light because it is behind the hull on the beam so
   you are more convinced it is coming straight for you. You then veer
   to port/starboard and next thing you know there's a bow where the
   side of your boat used to be. Not good and who's to blame? The Proa
   > The lights must be on the hulls as suggested and I suspect that
   amidships would be the optimal place(the highest point possible from
   the water)


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   harryproa-unsubscribe@...



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Apart from the nav lights we have the problem of the flags, important in some
countries. I wonder if we could have a small mast on the WW hull with the nav
lights, the flags (except national which remains a problem) and maybe GPS
antenna and so on. This mast we should be able to rotate 180 ° when shunting.

Sure the proa brings up unusual problems !
--
Nicolas Vivier
www.icarai.net --> construire... et naviguer !
tél : +33 (0)2 33 67 60 57
Empreinte PGP : D2B0 D8A4 B4D8 D012 53BB  F59F 0345 985C C09B 85B7

Is this a bit like Daylight Saving Time when the sun goes one way
but my clock goes the other way?

How is the sparhead issue different than on any rotating rig,  where
sparhead lights are in stacked sets with switches.

Is downwind work asumed to be with the sails at 90 degrees?  That is
only possible due to the aerorig config, one could have the sails set
more conventionaly, or be tacking downwind, in which case sparhead
lights would be fine.  I don't know enough about aerorigs to know
what is the best way to sail them downwind

It ought to be possible with LEDS to have any sparhead variable
lighting configurations one wants including "Sale in aisle three".

Further bad news is that one would have to be careful about twisting
up the lights if they were operated off a wire, since the rig can
360.  With LEDs, battery operation is at least a possibility.

> I thought about the masthead nav lights but this would not work.
Particularly with downwind work when the rig is a right angles to the
boat.
> Imagine approaching the proa from the WW side when it was going
downwind and reading the nav lights to be coming straight at you. You
cant see a stern light because it is behind the hull on the beam so
you are more convinced it is coming straight for you. You then veer
to port/starboard and next thing you know there's a bow where the
side of your boat used to be. Not good and who's to blame? The Proa
> The lights must be on the hulls as suggested and I suspect that
amidships would be the optimal place(the highest point possible from
the water)

I don't think the rudder is to be lifted at any stage when sailing?
There is a need for both rudders in the water to provide balance and leeway
functions. It was suggested that the front tiller be locked in the straight
ahead  position. Although Rob says you could pull one up for racing I suspect
that if you did the bow would fall away off waves because the CE is ahead of the
rudder. This would be good when surfing on a reach but would suck when pointing
Rob would this be right?
I thought about the masthead nav lights but this would not work. Particularly
with downwind work when the rig is a right angles to the boat.
Imagine approaching the proa from the WW side when it was going downwind and
reading the nav lights to be coming straight at you. You cant see a stern light
because it is behind the hull on the beam so you are more convinced it is coming
straight for you. You then veer to port/starboard and next thing you know
there's a bow where the side of your boat used to be. Not good and who's to
blame? The Proa
The lights must be on the hulls as suggested and I suspect that amidships would
be the optimal place(the highest point possible from the water)
Now what about the outboard direction of travel?
Does it have to be run in reverse for long periods if the wind is from the wrong
direction?
Rgs
Tony


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Jim Baltaxe
   To: harryproa@...
   Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:27 AM
   Subject: [harryproa] Nav Lights - was, Visionarry under construction in the
Netherlands


   Hi Tony & Al

   Sorry to butt in here, but the nav lights could be easily handled with two
sets of hull lights, one on each end of each hull, appropriately coloured and
wired so that one set or the other switches on when the rudders are lifted or
dropped. I think Rob recommended that the forward rudder should always be
lifted.

   Jim Baltaxe
   ITS Desktop Support
   Victoria University of Wellington
   NEW ZEALAND
   (04) 463 5018 or 029 200 6982


   Klein bottle for rent.  Inquire within.
   "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" --
Albert Einstein


   > -----Original Message-----
   > From: Tony Richardson [mailto:atrichardson@...]
   > Sent: Wednesday, 2 July 2003 12:16
   > To: harryproa@...
   > Subject: Re: [harryproa] Visionarry under construction in the
   > Netherlands
   >
   >
   > Giday Han
   > Do Jan and Rudolf intend to make the space in the LW hull accessible?
   > Progress looks great.
   > Have they been able to keep the boat to budget so far?
   > I know Rob isn't a fan of paint ( it weighs to much ) but do
   > you think the finish on the boat any less important than the
   > construction. True obsessive attention to detail in the
   > paintwork is costly and time consuming but it also serves an
   > important purpose ie protection of all the hard work that has
   > been put into building it in the first place. Epoxy will
   > break down in UV light.
   > These boats look to have a significant advantage in cost due
   > to the lack of major fittings ie chainplates, winches, pulleys etc
   > I am interested to see if this flows into cost savings at the
   > painting stage as well ( less taping off and mount remove
   > paint and remount of fittings). Quicker painting time ( fewer
   > fiddle areas )
   > If this is true compared to an ordinary boat/cat/tri, then
   > some of these apparent savings could be used to buy better
   > paint and or professional labour.
   > Then again maybe just get it sailing and who gives a hoot
   > about the paint
   > I don't know if they are at the navigation light fitting
   > stage but have they indicated how they will  overcome the
   > port/starboard/stern lighting dilemma
   > I'm interested to hear anyone's comments on all of this as well
   > Rgs
   > Tony:-)
   >   ----- Original Message -----
   >   From: H. Bijlard
   >   To: harryproa@...
   >   Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:48 AM
   >   Subject: [harryproa] Visionarry under construction in the
   > Netherlands
   >
   >
   >   From your foreign correspondent:   ;-)
   >
   >   June 28th I paid a visit to the building site of the
   > Visionarry being build
   >   in the Netherlands.
   >   Progress reports and photo's can be found at
   >   http://www.harryproa.com/BlindDate/Jan_index.htm .
   >
   >   The windward-hull is weather proof, just needs the final
   > coat of paint and
   >   antifouling.
   >   The hull is pretty fair, could stand to be painted in a
   > high gloss, but is
   >   painted in a matte finish.
   >   The oval windows in the hull are mounted recessed and look
   > very good.
   >   The hood over the cockpit looks very well, and is done
   > well.   Here the
   >   large windows are mounted in goop on top of the hood
   > (bolt-on style, only
   >   without bolts).  A little bit less sophisticated, but I
   > doubt I would have
   >   done it in another way, as now the inside of the hood looks very
   >   clean.  The structural members carrying  the roof of the
   > hood have been
   >   kept very slender, resulting in an almost unobstructed view
   > through 360
   >   degrees.
   >   The cockpit is very clean and smooth, looks good, but
   > hardly anywhere a
   >   place to get a firm hold.  When you appreciate hand rails
   > on your current
   >   boat, I'm sure you would add some to the cockpit of a
   > Visionarry too.
   >
   >   Most of the interior has been done, but not painted yet.
   > The interior has
   >   been done in a functional, non-luxury way.
   >   Rob has used the interior, floor and bunks to support the
   > hull.  The hull
   >   has been built in 12 mm WRC, with 600 gr/m2 bi-ax outside
   > and 400 gr/m2
   >   bi-ax inside.  Man, this is this a strong, sturdy hull !
   >   Although Rob tries to keep his boats light, this hull
   > certainly isn't
   >   under-spec'ed.
   >
   >   The cabin gives an impression of roominess and space.
   > Sleeps six, but lack
   >   of privacy could be a problem.
   >   The double bunks are "king-size", with plenty of space to
   > store personal
   >   luggage.  The luggage compartments next to the beams are HUGE.
   >   Taken into consideration that most labor on this boat paid
   > labor, I think
   >   any shortcuts made were sensible to keep cost down.  We
   > have a yachting
   >   culture here (just like in Germany and Scandinavia) where
   > we tend to regard
   >   "showroom shine" & perfect as a MUST.  This boat barely
   > measures up to that
   >   ridicules yardstick, and that's just fine by me.
   >
   >   Jan & Rudoph will probably start on the lee-hull next, and
   > that one should
   >   be finished even faster as it has a lot less double
   > curvature, and no interior.
   >
   >   Regards,  Han.
   >
   >
   >   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   >   harryproa-unsubscribe@...
   >
   >
   >
   >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
   > Service.
   >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   > harryproa-unsubscribe@...
   >
   >
   >
   > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
   > http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
   >
   >
   >

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   harryproa-unsubscribe@...



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Connie :^)

Yes, I'm sure that would work (assuming the electrics will accommodate the
swiveling) although there are jurisdictions where tricolour or combination
masthead lights are not legal.

It actually shouldn't be too difficult to work out. Port & starboard are
relatively to direction of movement, just as bow and stern are. When you are
dead in the water you have a different problem, of course.

Enjoy

Jim Baltaxe
ITS Desktop Support
Victoria University of Wellington
NEW ZEALAND
(04) 463 5018 or 029 200 6982


Klein bottle for rent.  Inquire within.
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" --
Albert Einstein


> -----Original Message-----
> From: proaconstrictor [mailto:proaconstrictor@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 July 2003 5:01
> To: harryproa@...
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: Nav Lights - was, Visionarry under
> construction
> in the Netherlands
>
>
> I'm not up on lights, but couldn't one just do masthead lights that
> come around with the spar, the spar does rotate doesn't it?
>
> Port and starboard seems a confusing concept in proa terms.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I'm not up on lights, but couldn't one just do masthead lights that
come around with the spar, the spar does rotate doesn't it?

Port and starboard seems a confusing concept in proa terms.

Jim said
I think Rob recommended that the forward rudder should always be lifted.

Not at all.  The forward rudder can stay down, unless you are racing.  The
light switch could be incorporated in the rudder turning as it goes through
180 degrees between shunts.

regards,

Rob

Hi Tony & Al

Sorry to butt in here, but the nav lights could be easily handled with two sets
of hull lights, one on each end of each hull, appropriately coloured and wired
so that one set or the other switches on when the rudders are lifted or dropped.
I think Rob recommended that the forward rudder should always be lifted.

Jim Baltaxe
ITS Desktop Support
Victoria University of Wellington
NEW ZEALAND
(04) 463 5018 or 029 200 6982


Klein bottle for rent.  Inquire within.
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" --
Albert Einstein


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Richardson [mailto:atrichardson@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 July 2003 12:16
> To: harryproa@...
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Visionarry under construction in the
> Netherlands
>
>
> Giday Han
> Do Jan and Rudolf intend to make the space in the LW hull accessible?
> Progress looks great.
> Have they been able to keep the boat to budget so far?
> I know Rob isn't a fan of paint ( it weighs to much ) but do
> you think the finish on the boat any less important than the
> construction. True obsessive attention to detail in the
> paintwork is costly and time consuming but it also serves an
> important purpose ie protection of all the hard work that has
> been put into building it in the first place. Epoxy will
> break down in UV light.
> These boats look to have a significant advantage in cost due
> to the lack of major fittings ie chainplates, winches, pulleys etc
> I am interested to see if this flows into cost savings at the
> painting stage as well ( less taping off and mount remove
> paint and remount of fittings). Quicker painting time ( fewer
> fiddle areas )
> If this is true compared to an ordinary boat/cat/tri, then
> some of these apparent savings could be used to buy better
> paint and or professional labour.
> Then again maybe just get it sailing and who gives a hoot
> about the paint
> I don't know if they are at the navigation light fitting
> stage but have they indicated how they will  overcome the
> port/starboard/stern lighting dilemma
> I'm interested to hear anyone's comments on all of this as well
> Rgs
> Tony:-)
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: H. Bijlard
>   To: harryproa@...
>   Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:48 AM
>   Subject: [harryproa] Visionarry under construction in the
> Netherlands
>
>
>   From your foreign correspondent:   ;-)
>
>   June 28th I paid a visit to the building site of the
> Visionarry being build
>   in the Netherlands.
>   Progress reports and photo's can be found at
>   http://www.harryproa.com/BlindDate/Jan_index.htm .
>
>   The windward-hull is weather proof, just needs the final
> coat of paint and
>   antifouling.
>   The hull is pretty fair, could stand to be painted in a
> high gloss, but is
>   painted in a matte finish.
>   The oval windows in the hull are mounted recessed and look
> very good.
>   The hood over the cockpit looks very well, and is done
> well.   Here the
>   large windows are mounted in goop on top of the hood
> (bolt-on style, only
>   without bolts).  A little bit less sophisticated, but I
> doubt I would have
>   done it in another way, as now the inside of the hood looks very
>   clean.  The structural members carrying  the roof of the
> hood have been
>   kept very slender, resulting in an almost unobstructed view
> through 360
>   degrees.
>   The cockpit is very clean and smooth, looks good, but
> hardly anywhere a
>   place to get a firm hold.  When you appreciate hand rails
> on your current
>   boat, I'm sure you would add some to the cockpit of a
> Visionarry too.
>
>   Most of the interior has been done, but not painted yet.
> The interior has
>   been done in a functional, non-luxury way.
>   Rob has used the interior, floor and bunks to support the
> hull.  The hull
>   has been built in 12 mm WRC, with 600 gr/m2 bi-ax outside
> and 400 gr/m2
>   bi-ax inside.  Man, this is this a strong, sturdy hull !
>   Although Rob tries to keep his boats light, this hull
> certainly isn't
>   under-spec'ed.
>
>   The cabin gives an impression of roominess and space.
> Sleeps six, but lack
>   of privacy could be a problem.
>   The double bunks are "king-size", with plenty of space to
> store personal
>   luggage.  The luggage compartments next to the beams are HUGE.
>   Taken into consideration that most labor on this boat paid
> labor, I think
>   any shortcuts made were sensible to keep cost down.  We
> have a yachting
>   culture here (just like in Germany and Scandinavia) where
> we tend to regard
>   "showroom shine" & perfect as a MUST.  This boat barely
> measures up to that
>   ridicules yardstick, and that's just fine by me.
>
>   Jan & Rudoph will probably start on the lee-hull next, and
> that one should
>   be finished even faster as it has a lot less double
> curvature, and no interior.
>
>   Regards,  Han.
>
>
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> harryproa-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://au.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Giday Han
Do Jan and Rudolf intend to make the space in the LW hull accessible?
Progress looks great.
Have they been able to keep the boat to budget so far?
I know Rob isn't a fan of paint ( it weighs to much ) but do you think the
finish on the boat any less important than the construction. True obsessive
attention to detail in the paintwork is costly and time consuming but it also
serves an important purpose ie protection of all the hard work that has been put
into building it in the first place. Epoxy will break down in UV light.
These boats look to have a significant advantage in cost due to the lack of
major fittings ie chainplates, winches, pulleys etc
I am interested to see if this flows into cost savings at the painting stage as
well ( less taping off and mount remove paint and remount of fittings). Quicker
painting time ( fewer fiddle areas )
If this is true compared to an ordinary boat/cat/tri, then some of these
apparent savings could be used to buy better paint and or professional labour.
Then again maybe just get it sailing and who gives a hoot about the paint
I don't know if they are at the navigation light fitting stage but have they
indicated how they will  overcome the port/starboard/stern lighting dilemma
I'm interested to hear anyone's comments on all of this as well
Rgs
Tony:-)
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: H. Bijlard
   To: harryproa@...
   Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:48 AM
   Subject: [harryproa] Visionarry under construction in the Netherlands


   From your foreign correspondent:   ;-)

   June 28th I paid a visit to the building site of the Visionarry being build
   in the Netherlands.
   Progress reports and photo's can be found at
   http://www.harryproa.com/BlindDate/Jan_index.htm .

   The windward-hull is weather proof, just needs the final coat of paint and
   antifouling.
   The hull is pretty fair, could stand to be painted in a high gloss, but is
   painted in a matte finish.
   The oval windows in the hull are mounted recessed and look very good.
   The hood over the cockpit looks very well, and is done well.   Here the
   large windows are mounted in goop on top of the hood (bolt-on style, only
   without bolts).  A little bit less sophisticated, but I doubt I would have
   done it in another way, as now the inside of the hood looks very
   clean.  The structural members carrying  the roof of the hood have been
   kept very slender, resulting in an almost unobstructed view through 360
   degrees.
   The cockpit is very clean and smooth, looks good, but hardly anywhere a
   place to get a firm hold.  When you appreciate hand rails on your current
   boat, I'm sure you would add some to the cockpit of a Visionarry too.

   Most of the interior has been done, but not painted yet.  The interior has
   been done in a functional, non-luxury way.
   Rob has used the interior, floor and bunks to support the hull.  The hull
   has been built in 12 mm WRC, with 600 gr/m2 bi-ax outside and 400 gr/m2
   bi-ax inside.  Man, this is this a strong, sturdy hull !
   Although Rob tries to keep his boats light, this hull certainly isn't
   under-spec'ed.

   The cabin gives an impression of roominess and space.  Sleeps six, but lack
   of privacy could be a problem.
   The double bunks are "king-size", with plenty of space to store personal
   luggage.  The luggage compartments next to the beams are HUGE.
   Taken into consideration that most labor on this boat paid labor, I think
   any shortcuts made were sensible to keep cost down.  We have a yachting
   culture here (just like in Germany and Scandinavia) where we tend to regard
   "showroom shine" & perfect as a MUST.  This boat barely measures up to that
   ridicules yardstick, and that's just fine by me.

   Jan & Rudoph will probably start on the lee-hull next, and that one should
   be finished even faster as it has a lot less double curvature, and no
interior.

   Regards,  Han.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From your foreign correspondent:   ;-)

June 28th I paid a visit to the building site of the Visionarry being build
in the Netherlands.
Progress reports and photo's can be found at
http://www.harryproa.com/BlindDate/Jan_index.htm .

The windward-hull is weather proof, just needs the final coat of paint and
antifouling.
The hull is pretty fair, could stand to be painted in a high gloss, but is
painted in a matte finish.
The oval windows in the hull are mounted recessed and look very good.
The hood over the cockpit looks very well, and is done well.   Here the
large windows are mounted in goop on top of the hood (bolt-on style, only
without bolts).  A little bit less sophisticated, but I doubt I would have
done it in another way, as now the inside of the hood looks very
clean.  The structural members carrying  the roof of the hood have been
kept very slender, resulting in an almost unobstructed view through 360
degrees.
The cockpit is very clean and smooth, looks good, but hardly anywhere a
place to get a firm hold.  When you appreciate hand rails on your current
boat, I'm sure you would add some to the cockpit of a Visionarry too.

Most of the interior has been done, but not painted yet.  The interior has
been done in a functional, non-luxury way.
Rob has used the interior, floor and bunks to support the hull.  The hull
has been built in 12 mm WRC, with 600 gr/m2 bi-ax outside and 400 gr/m2
bi-ax inside.  Man, this is this a strong, sturdy hull !
Although Rob tries to keep his boats light, this hull certainly isn't
under-spec'ed.

The cabin gives an impression of roominess and space.  Sleeps six, but lack
of privacy could be a problem.
The double bunks are "king-size", with plenty of space to store personal
luggage.  The luggage compartments next to the beams are HUGE.
Taken into consideration that most labor on this boat paid labor, I think
any shortcuts made were sensible to keep cost down.  We have a yachting
culture here (just like in Germany and Scandinavia) where we tend to regard
"showroom shine" & perfect as a MUST.  This boat barely measures up to that
ridicules yardstick, and that's just fine by me.

Jan & Rudoph will probably start on the lee-hull next, and that one should
be finished even faster as it has a lot less double curvature, and no interior.

Regards,  Han.