Thanks Sylvia for you input
Jenny Tolley
Tolltoonie Shetland Sheepdogs
> I was not at the meeting, however I can quote directly from an email
> I received from Dr Robertson:
>
> "....it is time to move on past this so that we can get on with the
> next stage of data base development on behalf of the ANKC.
> Designing a
> national eye certification system for the multi-controlled, thinly
> populated
> eight-state Australian continent with New Zealand and South East
> Asia also
> in mind, required a number of significant alterations to the
> structure of
> existing northern hemisphere schemes."
>
> I hope this clarifies things.
>
> Sylvia
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo!7 Groups Links
>
>
>
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All three NZ Sheltie clubs have submitted quite a comprehensive submission on the proposed Accredited Breeders Scheme but expect another round of submissions when a white paper on the ABS is sent to NZKC members. ACES or an equivalent being one component of it so we need all the information we can get.
Please excuse my ignorance but can you please explain what the Accredited Breeders Scheme entails. Is this a case of me having my head stuck in the sand as I have never heard of this being discussed before. Is it just a New Zealand KC initiative or something that we can expect to have as well.
Jenny Tolley Tolltoonie Shetland Sheepdogs
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--- In ozeyescheme@..., "Rosemary Richards"
<romanoc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jenny,
> Can somebody that was there at the information night confirm that
this is what Dr Robertson said, my recollection was him saying this
then following it with that the scheme would also be eventually
extended to Southern Asia (or South East Asia I am not sure of his
terminology). I don't recall him giving a time frame for the schemes
implementation in New Zealand just that it would happen when they
had everything organized.
I was not at the meeting, however I can quote directly from an email
I received from Dr Robertson:
"....it is time to move on past this so that we can get on with the
next stage of data base development on behalf of the ANKC.
Designing a
national eye certification system for the multi-controlled, thinly
populated
eight-state Australian continent with New Zealand and South East
Asia also
in mind, required a number of significant alterations to the
structure of
existing northern hemisphere schemes."
I hope this clarifies things.
Sylvia
Can somebody that was there at the information night confirm that this is what Dr Robertson said, my recollection was him saying this then following it with that the scheme would also be eventually extended to Southern Asia (or South East Asia I am not sure of his terminology). I don't recall him giving a time frame for the schemes implementation in New Zealand just that it would happen when they had everything organized.
I do understand about getting things correct and yes I would appreciate any help from anyone at the meeting to confirm this.
All three NZ Sheltie clubs have submitted quite a comprehensive submission on the proposed Accredited Breeders Scheme but expect another round of submissions when a white paper on the ABS is sent to NZKC members. ACES or an equivalent being one component of it so we need all the information we can get.
Now I am confused because I have been assured by a NZKC exec member that ACES will NOT be coming to New Zealand.
Did Dr Robertson state that ACES will be coming to NZ at the meeting?
I find it hard to believe that the only ACES vet will want to spend all this time on the road traveling right through out NZ. I am wondering if our other qualified eye specialist is going to join the scheme even though I have been assured that he wasn't.
Can somebody that was there at the information night confirm that this is what Dr Robertson said, my recollection was him saying this then following it with that the scheme would also be eventually extended to Southern Asia (or South East Asia I am not sure of his teminology). I don't recall him giving a time frame for the schemes implementation in New Zealand just that it would happen when they had everything organized.
If Dr Robertson did state at the meeting that ACES was coming to NZ can I have your permission to quote that in any correspondence I have with the NZKC in my capacity as President of the Sth Is Shetland Sheepdog Club?
Just in case I have the bull by the horns please don't quote anything to the NZKC or anybody else until somebody else confirms that this is what was said on the night.
The meeting went for almost 2 1/2 hours and a lot of information was discussed during that time and we have to be very careful that we make sure that we have our facts right before we jump off the deep end. Each one of us that attended the meeting tried hard to take in all that was being said so that we could relay the correct information to the interested people who could not make the meeting.
regards
Jenny Tolley Tolltoonie Shetland Sheepdogs
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Yes but from what I have read of the scheme Dr Robertson envisions only CEA clear dog would be bred from so automatically that will reduce the gene pool so therefore it is a form of controlling the breeding. If only clear dogs were used and keeping in mind Dr Robertson would have set the criteria, how many stud dogs would that leave for people to use and I'm not just talking about Shelties. We all know how many valuable lines were lost in the UK after they wiped out any dogs that had mild CEA.
I don't want to sound mistrustful but how this scheme was bought in worries me and no matter how much assurance we receive will the powers that be change their minds at a future date. Once they have their data base set up how easy would it be to set what ever standards they want for breeding.
At the end of the day it is the breeders that are the guardians of the breed. They should be the ones that set the standard and they take a lot more in to consideration when breeding a litter than an eye test. It is only one factor in many when planning a mating.
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [ozeyescheme] Good news
Hi Leonie,
Yes Dr Robertson did say you only had one ACES eye vet, but they were negotiating for him to travel between both islands on a regular basis so that the scheme can start over there.
Christina Rafton who was representing the ANKC in the absence of Keith Irwin confirmed that the ANKC will NOT be bringing in any regulations whereby the the ANKC will dictate to the breeders which studs or dams breeders have to use.
regards
Jenny Tolley Tolltoonie Shetland Sheepdogs
Hi Jenny,
"What ever affects Aust. will surely affect us here in New Zealand."
"Dr Robertson did mention that they already had a ACES Ophthamologist in New Zealand and that the scheme would be taking effect over there and that indeed the scheme will eventually also be taken up in all of Southern Asia."
I think we have ONE'ACES' Ophthalmologist for the both Islands, (the other canine Ophthalmologists do not qualify at this stage), and we haven't just a proposed ACES scheme to contend with but also an Inherited Disorders Scheme in the pipeline.
The whole scene is overwhelming for such a small country and mind boggling to the extent that I envisage in a few years our HOBBY of breeding our chosen breed may be eroded to the extent that a panel of vets with a vested interest and no idea of Standards will be deciding our breeds future.
I think there is also a danger of the schemes eventually becoming compulsory.
I'm thinking on the lines of the German Shepherd breeders in Germany and I think the sheltie breeders over there are also "told what to do with their breeding / especially breeding blue merles".!!
JMHO.
Leonie Clarke
Prosper Shelties
New Zealand
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Thanks Jenny
How I wish there was some way I could have attended, even though we
are resident in NSW we are just over the border of ACT so it would be
more convenient to have had a meeting held at EPIC to cater for
us "southerners".
It seems that Dr Robertson has taken some offence to us breeders
questioning his motives. Well why shouldn't we, question that is,
after all, if it effects one of us it will eventually effect all of
us. Some one mentioned the tail docking issue, well this was
certainly the testing ground to see how well we as a collective could
stand up the the big boys, well we didn't do that very well but we
certainly learnt a lesson and hopefully we can all stand together on
this one and fight for our rights too.
Ails
--- In ozeyescheme@..., "Ray &Jenny T"
<tolltoonie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ails,
>
>
> > I'm confused, what difference would it make if the discussion was
> > forwarded to Dr Robertson or any one else for that matter?
>
> On one of the Sheltie lists a discussion about the eye scheme was
taking
> place and somebody on this list sent one or some of the emails to
Dr
> Robertson and he took offence at some of the comments and in turn
sent an
> email to the NBC secretary. He also did not like the fact that the
NBC
> secretary had posted one of his previous emails to the list as this
is what
> in fact had generated the discussion.
>
> The NBC Secretary was upset because she felt that the breeders of
Australia
> had a right to know what was happening but Dr Robertson had only
meant the
> email to be sent to the State Club Secretaries.
>
> > much to my dissapointment. Even more disaappointing is the fact
that we
> > still have not been told anything about the discussions that took
place
> > on the 12th even though it was an open invitation to all, no
fault of
> > anyones that could not attend, we should still be kept informed.
>
> Our club secretary took extensive notes on the night and is working
through
> them at the moment and will forward these notes to all state clubs
for
> publication in their newsletters. It is essential that she makes
sure that
> she records the correct information so that those who could not
attend get
> clear and accurate information.
>
> regards
> Jenny Tolley
> Tolltoonie Shetland Sheepdog
>
>
>
> --
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>
Now I am confused because I have been assured by a NZKC exec member that ACES will NOT be coming to New Zealand.
Did Dr Robertson state that ACES will be coming to NZ at the meeting?
I find it hard to believe that the only ACES vet will want to spend all this time on the road traveling right through out NZ. I am wondering if our other qualified eye specialist is going to join the scheme even though I have been assured that he wasn't.
If Dr Robertson did state at the meeting that ACES was coming to NZ can I have your permission to quote that in any correspondence I have with the NZKC in my capacity as President of the Sth Is Shetland Sheepdog Club?
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [ozeyescheme] Good news
Hi Rosemary
What ever affects Aust. will surely affect us here in New Zealand.
Dr Robertson did mention that they already had a ACES Ophthamologist in New Zealand and that the scheme would be taking effect over there and that indeed the scheme will eventually also be taken up in all of Southern Asia.
Jenny Tolley
Tolltoonie Shetland Sheepdogs
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Jacqui - Eridor Smooth Collies…wrote……..
That is a very summerised version and I am sure once the members
whom attended have 5 minutes breathing space from their very busy
lives at the moment they will tell us more. I know 3 of the collie
people whom attended have been stretched to the limit since the
meeting.
################
Hi Folks,
Jacqui has hit the nail on the head where she says… "Some people
have been stretched to the limit since the ACES meeting!!"
Sorry folk but the timing has not been favourable with the Royal
taking up much of our time, & as Jacqui rightly says, many of us
that attended the ACES meeting have really been stretched to the
limit of late.
However it is refreshing to see that SO MANY people have taken the
time to become informed on this very serious issue & SO KEEN to know
exactly what we are faced with in regard to ACES, but believe me, I
like many of the others are now trying to catch up and put "pen to
paper" to inform all those people that could not make the meeting,
as to exactly what transpired, as there were many important aspects
that came to light as a result of the questions from the audience.
Please be patient a little longer as I am sure you'd rather that,
than to have a rushed and misinformed response. There is FAR TOO
MUCH misinformation in regard to ACES floating around, so lets get
it right the first time around.
###########################
Jackie Knight - Weownah Shelties…. wrote……….
I do hope that what we discuss on this list stays on the list as
well. Other discussions that took place on a sheltie list were
forwarded to Dr Robertson.
################
In response to your comment Jackie re hoping that no one will pass
on the postings from this Ozeyescheme lists to Dr. Robertson, I see
no reason why Dr. Robertson, or anyone else for that matter, should
not be informed of the very real concerns of the purebred dog lobby.
On the contrary, I believe it would be very beneficial to the
listers if people like Hugh Gent & Dr. Robertson representing AVA &
the ANKC were to informed us ALL of the "endless misconceptions"
they keep telling us we have. It would seem that MANY people have
written to the AVA and asked for different points to be clarified in
regard to ACES, but it seems that NO ONE has EVER received a
response from them. And so if this forum can evoke some
clarification regarding the concerns we have, then we will all be
better off.
The people who are concerned enough about the future of their breeds
to put endless hours of their precious time into researching ACES
and its possible ramifications; I am quiet sure have NOTHING to
hide, hence the creation of Ozeyescheme to get everything out in the
open. This is a forum inviting frank discussion from both breeders
of ALL breeds, together with the very people that want ACES
implemented to put forward their case as to why a scheme such as
ACES is going to be so beneficial to the future of our sport. This
can only ally all the fear and concerns we have at this time.
I am working on a posting in regard to the very positive meeting
regrading ACES held on April 12th, 2007. Please be patient.
Leah Ryan
Vedamea Collies
Yes Dr Robertson did say you only had one ACES eye vet, but they were negotiating for him to travel between both islands on a regular basis so that the scheme can start over there.
Christina Rafton who was representing the ANKC in the absence of Keith Irwin confirmed that the ANKC will NOT be bringing in any regulations whereby the the ANKC will dictate to the breeders which studs or dams breeders have to use.
regards
Jenny Tolley Tolltoonie Shetland Sheepdogs
Hi Jenny,
"What ever affects Aust. will surely affect us here in New Zealand."
"Dr Robertson did mention that they already had a ACES Ophthamologist in New Zealand and that the scheme would be taking effect over there and that indeed the scheme will eventually also be taken up in all of Southern Asia."
I think we have ONE'ACES' Ophthalmologist for the both Islands, (the other canine Ophthalmologists do not qualify at this stage), and we haven't just a proposed ACES scheme to contend with but also an Inherited Disorders Scheme in the pipeline.
The whole scene is overwhelming for such a small country and mind boggling to the extent that I envisage in a few years our HOBBY of breeding our chosen breed may be eroded to the extent that a panel of vets with a vested interest and no idea of Standards will be deciding our breeds future.
I think there is also a danger of the schemes eventually becoming compulsory.
I'm thinking on the lines of the German Shepherd breeders in Germany and I think the sheltie breeders over there are also "told what to do with their breeding / especially breeding blue merles".!!
JMHO.
Leonie Clarke
Prosper Shelties
New Zealand
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"What ever affects Aust. will surely affect us here in New Zealand."
"Dr Robertson did mention that they already had a ACES Ophthamologist in New Zealand and that the scheme would be taking effect over there and that indeed the scheme will eventually also be taken up in all of Southern Asia."
I think we have ONE'ACES' Ophthalmologist for the both Islands, (the other canine Ophthalmologists do not qualify at this stage), and we haven't just a proposed ACES scheme to contend with but also an Inherited Disorders Scheme in the pipeline.
The whole scene is overwhelming for such a small country and mind boggling to the extent that I envisage in a few years our HOBBY of breeding our chosen breed may be eroded to the extent that a panel of vets with a vested interest and no idea of Standards will be deciding our breeds future.
I think there is also a danger of the schemes eventually becoming compulsory.
I'm thinking on the lines of the German Shepherd breeders in Germany and I think the sheltie breeders over there are also "told what to do with their breeding / especially breeding blue merles".!!
Hi Ails,
> I'm confused, what difference would it make if the discussion was
> forwarded to Dr Robertson or any one else for that matter?
On one of the Sheltie lists a discussion about the eye scheme was taking
place and somebody on this list sent one or some of the emails to Dr
Robertson and he took offence at some of the comments and in turn sent an
email to the NBC secretary. He also did not like the fact that the NBC
secretary had posted one of his previous emails to the list as this is what
in fact had generated the discussion.
The NBC Secretary was upset because she felt that the breeders of Australia
had a right to know what was happening but Dr Robertson had only meant the
email to be sent to the State Club Secretaries.
> much to my dissapointment. Even more disaappointing is the fact that we
> still have not been told anything about the discussions that took place
> on the 12th even though it was an open invitation to all, no fault of
> anyones that could not attend, we should still be kept informed.
Our club secretary took extensive notes on the night and is working through
them at the moment and will forward these notes to all state clubs for
publication in their newsletters. It is essential that she makes sure that
she records the correct information so that those who could not attend get
clear and accurate information.
regards
Jenny Tolley
Tolltoonie Shetland Sheepdog
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What ever affects Aust. will surely affect us here in New Zealand.
Dr Robertson did mention that they already had a ACES Ophthamologist in New Zealand and that the scheme would be taking effect over there and that indeed the scheme will eventually also be taken up in all of Southern Asia.
Jenny Tolley
Tolltoonie Shetland Sheepdogs
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Hi There,
I am Linda Bagnall, I have Maremma Sheepdogs and am very interested in
this eye scheme as I believe it will affect Maremma's as well at some
stage. I have had 3 of my dogs tested but not under this new system.
At this point I fail to understand why the AVA has to be involved at
all. Surely we could have mandatory testing without an AVA involvement?
From what I have read so far the whole thing worrys me as I can not see
any benefit to breeders but many benefits to the AVA.
I do understand that there is no breed club for the Maremma but it would
seem to me that advertising this as a proposal in a journal would be of
help. Perhaps a vote by members should have been asked for?
Cheers
Linda
Wyee NSW Aust
http://www.comcen.com.au/~birichino/ (it's a start)
Why is there so much month left
At the end of the money.
Hi Jackie and everyone,
My name is Jenny Tolley and I own Shetland Sheepdogs.
> One question that I asked at the ACES meeting was -
> If I bring along a litter of 6-8 week old puppies for testing and advise
> that I do not want to be tested under the ACES scheme, would they still do
> the test? The answer I received was NO. So much for a voluntary scheme.
One of the eye vets said "Then don't bring them for testing", or words very
similar, I can't remember the exact words but I know I was stunned at his
response.
>
> Every australian AVA opthomologist is a member of this scheme so there is
> no
> other eye specialist than I can use without going to one of the "ACES"
> specialists.
The eye vets also confirmed this on the night.
Jenny Tolley
Tolltoonie Shetland Sheepdogs
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Down here in Tassie with our Collie & Sheltie club - as being a two
breed club - we are unable as a club to take part in any NBC. But as
individual members we did get information about ACES - but again like
Sylvia says it was only to ask if we wanted an Open or Closed
register - no other information about how the scheme was to be
implemented, ran etc.
I am all for testing for the appropriate diseases and problems for
any breed - but am totally against being held to ransom (as such) by
the AVA.
Kerry
>
>I am President of the Labrador Retriever Breed Council and have been
>since 2001. (BTW, nothing I say here is on behalf of or intended to
>represent the Breed Council). In 2004 the Lab BC wrote to Dr
>Robertson requesting information on the progress of the eye scheme -
>we had no reply. In July 2006 the Lab BC received the letter
>announcing the eye scheme and asking for selection of Open or Closed
>Register (by September). We replied to Dr Robertson that we could
>not make decisions like that without far more information on the
>scheme and then a national survey of all registered Labrador owners,
>which from past experience would take at least six months - again we
>received no reply and have still had no formal reply from Dr
>Robertson.
>
>Sylvia Power
>
--
Kerry Webb
Ngalla Kennels & Cattery
Breeding for type and soundness of mind & body.
http://ngalla.com
I spoke to a member of my breed club who attended the meeting last
night, she has been flat out with dogs and extra shifts at work but
did want to put something on the collie lists but hasnt had the time.
Basically we really dont know anymore, any concerns must be taken to
your breed clubs then to NBC's, puppy results will not go into the
data base only adult dogs at this stage. Yes there was wrong info in
the original owners guide that is being fixed, the schedules of eye
diseases came from the british eye scheme and yes Bruce now realises
that some of the diseases do not effect us so will be fixed also.
That is a very summerised version and I am sure once the members
whom attended have 5 minutes breathing space from their very busy
lives at the moment they will tell us more. I know 3 of the collie
people whom attended have been stretched to the limit since the
meeting.
Jacq
Eridor Smooth Collies
--- In ozeyescheme@..., "zenchel1" <zenchel@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In ozeyescheme@..., "marechalacs" <marechal2@>
> wrote:
> > One thing that amased me was that although a number of breed
> > representatives present were part of National Breed Councils
some
> > claimed never to have heard about the scheme until the meeting
was
> > announced. If this is the case it means that either delegates
from
> > their NBCs did not attend the last two or three National Breed
> > Council Conferences or the delegates attending did not report
back
> > to their NBCs and via them to their affiliated clubs. Minutes of
> NBC
> > Conferences are sent to every NBC by the ANKC, is it possible
that
> > these are not being sent to the affiliated Clubs or if they are
> they
> > are being treated as "junk mail" and not discussed at club
> meetings.
> > We complain when things are done "behind our backs", but when we
> > have the opportunity to take place in decission making selecting
> > judges and arrangements for the next show are much more
important.
> > Sounds cynical I know but true - dog people are their own worst
> > enemies. The tail docking ban is a perfect example.
>
> I am President of the Labrador Retriever Breed Council and have
been
> since 2001. (BTW, nothing I say here is on behalf of or intended
to
> represent the Breed Council). In 2004 the Lab BC wrote to Dr
> Robertson requesting information on the progress of the eye
scheme -
> we had no reply. In July 2006 the Lab BC received the letter
> announcing the eye scheme and asking for selection of Open or
Closed
> Register (by September). We replied to Dr Robertson that we could
> not make decisions like that without far more information on the
> scheme and then a national survey of all registered Labrador
owners,
> which from past experience would take at least six months - again
we
> received no reply and have still had no formal reply from Dr
> Robertson.
>
>
> Sylvia Power
>
--- In ozeyescheme@..., "marechalacs" <marechal2@...>
wrote:
> One thing that amased me was that although a number of breed
> representatives present were part of National Breed Councils some
> claimed never to have heard about the scheme until the meeting was
> announced. If this is the case it means that either delegates from
> their NBCs did not attend the last two or three National Breed
> Council Conferences or the delegates attending did not report back
> to their NBCs and via them to their affiliated clubs. Minutes of
NBC
> Conferences are sent to every NBC by the ANKC, is it possible that
> these are not being sent to the affiliated Clubs or if they are
they
> are being treated as "junk mail" and not discussed at club
meetings.
> We complain when things are done "behind our backs", but when we
> have the opportunity to take place in decission making selecting
> judges and arrangements for the next show are much more important.
> Sounds cynical I know but true - dog people are their own worst
> enemies. The tail docking ban is a perfect example.
I am President of the Labrador Retriever Breed Council and have been
since 2001. (BTW, nothing I say here is on behalf of or intended to
represent the Breed Council). In 2004 the Lab BC wrote to Dr
Robertson requesting information on the progress of the eye scheme -
we had no reply. In July 2006 the Lab BC received the letter
announcing the eye scheme and asking for selection of Open or Closed
Register (by September). We replied to Dr Robertson that we could
not make decisions like that without far more information on the
scheme and then a national survey of all registered Labrador owners,
which from past experience would take at least six months - again we
received no reply and have still had no formal reply from Dr
Robertson.
Sylvia Power
I was present at the meeting.
At the commencement of the meeting it was said that questions could
be asked at any time but during the explanation of the scheme by BR
they were to be general rather then specific. It was also asked that
if there were a number of people from one breed could one or two
people ask the questions rather than each person asking the same or
similar questions. At no stage was any breed restricted to two
questions.
Three of the four Opthalmologists based in Sydney were present and
they answered each question some to the satisfaction of the
audience. Karen Hedberg was also present and took part in the
discussion.
One thing that amased me was that although a number of breed
representatives present were part of National Breed Councils some
claimed never to have heard about the scheme until the meeting was
announced. If this is the case it means that either delegates from
their NBCs did not attend the last two or three National Breed
Council Conferences or the delegates attending did not report back
to their NBCs and via them to their affiliated clubs. Minutes of NBC
Conferences are sent to every NBC by the ANKC, is it possible that
these are not being sent to the affiliated Clubs or if they are they
are being treated as "junk mail" and not discussed at club meetings.
We complain when things are done "behind our backs", but when we
have the opportunity to take place in decission making selecting
judges and arrangements for the next show are much more important.
Sounds cynical I know but true - dog people are their own worst
enemies. The tail docking ban is a perfect example.
- In ozeyescheme@..., Kerry Webb <kerry@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ails
>
> I know of one breeder in Vic who has several times just taken the
> signed stud/service certificate with her for the eye check, The
pups
> still have to have been micro chipped, but they do not have to
have
> already been registered - so you can still wait until the eye
check
> to decide whether to put them on the limit or main register.
>
> Would love to hear from anyone who did attend the meeting with "dr
> Robertson" - from what i heard about it prior, he was not that
> interested in answering particular questions and problems that
> breeders had and was restricting breed clubs to two questions.
>
> we will see!
>
> Kerry
>
>
>
>
> > I too
> >am very concerned about the restrictions being placed on us for
eye
> >tests etc, some of the requirements are almost impossible, classic
> >example having 6 - 8 week old puppies registered, this would mean
we
> >would have to submit registration forms almost immediatly after
birth,
> >how many of us wait for the eye reading before deciding on
main/limited
> >register?
>
> --
> Kerry Webb
> Ngalla Kennels & Cattery
> Breeding for type and soundness of mind & body.
> http://ngalla.com
>
Before I start let me say I am neither for or against the scheme at
this stage. I like many people want to know more about the fine
details before making up my mind. To this end two Clubs with which I
am concerned have combined to plan an Information Evening to make
our members fully aware of not only ACES but other Inherited Disease
Registers relevant to our particular breeds.
I am, however, and always have been a believer in testing for
inherited diseases where ever possible and practical.
I was present at the meeting and I was slightly stunned that I was
the only person present representing two very popular breeds and a
third less popular breed.
With regard to the puppy situation and registrations, it was clearly
stated that you either had to have the Registration Certificate for
each pup OR the Application for Registration Form fully completed
and signed by you and signed by the owner of the stud dog to verify
the registration details of the Sire and Dam. There is a requirement
that all the pups must be microchipped (tatooed) either before or at
the time of testing. Only the last six digits of each microchip
number are required on the ACES Litter Form.
It was also admitted that there were a few problems with the
deseases liste on both schedules for some breeds and this has been
and is being addressed.
Without seeming to be difficult how do you think the details of what
took place at the meeting could be communicated to you within a week?
The latest copy of Ringleader is just out and the Journal needs
months to have elasped between the event and its reporting.
--- In ozeyescheme@..., "mirriyuula" <mirriyuula@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm confused, what difference would it make if the discussion was
> forwarded to Dr Robertson or any one else for that matter? My
> understanding is that this was/is an open forum for us breeders to
> discuss and voice our concerns where needed. I may have missed a
lot by
> not being at the meeting but it was just impossible for me to be
there,
> much to my dissapointment. Even more disaappointing is the fact
that we
> still have not been told anything about the discussions that took
place
> on the 12th even though it was an open invitation to all, no fault
of
> anyones that could not attend, we should still be kept informed. I
too
> am very concerned about the restrictions being placed on us for
eye
> tests etc, some of the requirements are almost impossible, classic
> example having 6 - 8 week old puppies registered, this would mean
we
> would have to submit registration forms almost immediatly after
birth,
> how many of us wait for the eye reading before deciding on
main/limited
> register? Even further frustrating for me is that I have, at the
> moment, the only Polish Lowland Sheepdog as representative of the
breed
> in this country and in their schedule #2 they tell me he should be
> tested for RPED (Retinal Pigment Epithelial Dystrophy). If the
powers
> to be checked their international breeding records for this breed
they
> would find that it does not exist thanks to the meticulous
breeding
> standards of the parent club in Poland due to the near extiction
of the
> breed following WW2.
> Ails
> Mirriyuula Collies & Polish Lowland Sheepdogs
> www.mirriyuula.com
>
Thank you for setting up this list for a honest and frank discussion on ACES and I suspect more scheme's in the future. I look forward to some interesting and open discussion. Like Jackie I hope these messages wont be forwarded on to make trouble and shut down perfectly reasonable questions and debates on ACES.
What ever affects Aust. will surely affect us here in New Zealand. It's not the testing that is being questioned but the arbitrary nature of the scheme and lack of consultation. It is a disgrace that a scheme can be put into place with absolutely no input from the breeders IMHO.
Hopefully we will all learn more about ACES and its affects. I fear that this is just the start.
Hi Ails
I know of one breeder in Vic who has several times just taken the
signed stud/service certificate with her for the eye check, The pups
still have to have been micro chipped, but they do not have to have
already been registered - so you can still wait until the eye check
to decide whether to put them on the limit or main register.
Would love to hear from anyone who did attend the meeting with "dr
Robertson" - from what i heard about it prior, he was not that
interested in answering particular questions and problems that
breeders had and was restricting breed clubs to two questions.
we will see!
Kerry
> I too
>am very concerned about the restrictions being placed on us for eye
>tests etc, some of the requirements are almost impossible, classic
>example having 6 - 8 week old puppies registered, this would mean we
>would have to submit registration forms almost immediatly after birth,
>how many of us wait for the eye reading before deciding on main/limited
>register?
--
Kerry Webb
Ngalla Kennels & Cattery
Breeding for type and soundness of mind & body.
http://ngalla.com
I'm confused, what difference would it make if the discussion was
forwarded to Dr Robertson or any one else for that matter? My
understanding is that this was/is an open forum for us breeders to
discuss and voice our concerns where needed. I may have missed a lot by
not being at the meeting but it was just impossible for me to be there,
much to my dissapointment. Even more disaappointing is the fact that we
still have not been told anything about the discussions that took place
on the 12th even though it was an open invitation to all, no fault of
anyones that could not attend, we should still be kept informed. I too
am very concerned about the restrictions being placed on us for eye
tests etc, some of the requirements are almost impossible, classic
example having 6 - 8 week old puppies registered, this would mean we
would have to submit registration forms almost immediatly after birth,
how many of us wait for the eye reading before deciding on main/limited
register? Even further frustrating for me is that I have, at the
moment, the only Polish Lowland Sheepdog as representative of the breed
in this country and in their schedule #2 they tell me he should be
tested for RPED (Retinal Pigment Epithelial Dystrophy). If the powers
to be checked their international breeding records for this breed they
would find that it does not exist thanks to the meticulous breeding
standards of the parent club in Poland due to the near extiction of the
breed following WW2.
Ails
Mirriyuula Collies & Polish Lowland Sheepdogs
www.mirriyuula.com
I have also joined this group to learn what is going on with the ACES scheme as information does not seem to be forthcoming (especially in Victoria) where l havebeen in contact with the VCA. Having been in American cockers since 1980 and sussex spaniels since 1999 I am currently President of both the American Cocker spaniel club of Victoria and the Rarer Gundog Spaniels club of victoria both of whom will be affected by this scheme.
Regards
Pauline Freeman
Sunfire Spaniels
-----
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.1/765 - Release Date: 4/17/2007 5:20 PM
I have also joined this group to learn what is going on with the ACES scheme as information does not seem to be forthcoming (especially in Victoria) where l havebeen in contact with the VCA. Having been in American cockers since 1980 and sussex spaniels since 1999 I am currently President of both the American Cocker spaniel club of Victoria and the Rarer Gundog Spaniels club of victoria both of whom will be affected by this scheme.
Regards
Pauline Freeman
Sunfire Spaniels
-----
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.1/765 - Release Date: 4/17/2007 5:20 PM
Hi,
One question that I asked at the ACES meeting was -
If I bring along a litter of 6-8 week old puppies for testing and advise
that I do not want to be tested under the ACES scheme, would they still do
the test? The answer I received was NO. So much for a voluntary scheme.
Every australian AVA opthomologist is a member of this scheme so there is no
other eye specialist than I can use without going to one of the "ACES"
specialists.
I do hope that what we discuss on this list stays on the list as well.
Other discussions that took place on a sheltie list were forwarded to Dr
Robertson.
Regards
Jackie Knight
Weownah Shelties
----- Original Message -----
From: "mirriyuula" <mirriyuula@...>
To: <ozeyescheme@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:18 PM
Subject: [ozeyescheme] ACES meeting
> Hi all
> Well I suppose the first thing that we should discuss and learn about
> is what eventuated at the meeting held at Erskine Park with Dr
> Robertson on the 12th April. Hopefully Dogs NSW will have something
> printed in the next journal and also have forwarded it to the other
> States & Territories controlling bodies for publication. Unfortuantly
> it hasn't, as yet, been convenened in areas to cover those of us living
> not so close to the major grounds or at a time other than late at
> night. I, for one, am all for genetic/hereditary testing providing it
> is discussed with us the breeders, after all, aren't we the ones that
> know our dogs? and not just thrust upon us by some who feel it would be
> *beneficial* to the breeds concerned. So I suppose we now have to wait
> to see what was discussed and hope that we can work together as an
> entity to bring the scheme into a better format.
> Ails
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo!7 Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.2/766 - Release Date: 18/04/2007
> 7:39 AM
>
>
I have joined this group to learn more about the Aces scheme. I have
been involved with show collies since 1987. I exhibit and breed under
the prefix of Naywe Collies.
Look forward to learning all I can.
Regards
Sue Frankland
Naywe Collies
Hi all
Well I suppose the first thing that we should discuss and learn about
is what eventuated at the meeting held at Erskine Park with Dr
Robertson on the 12th April. Hopefully Dogs NSW will have something
printed in the next journal and also have forwarded it to the other
States & Territories controlling bodies for publication. Unfortuantly
it hasn't, as yet, been convenened in areas to cover those of us living
not so close to the major grounds or at a time other than late at
night. I, for one, am all for genetic/hereditary testing providing it
is discussed with us the breeders, after all, aren't we the ones that
know our dogs? and not just thrust upon us by some who feel it would be
*beneficial* to the breeds concerned. So I suppose we now have to wait
to see what was discussed and hope that we can work together as an
entity to bring the scheme into a better format.
Ails
Several articles have been uploaded including the petition to the Files
Folder.
Also there are links to the AVA website and to a site about breeding
Shelties in Germany.
People are welcome to send files and links that are relevant to ACES
Cheers Mim
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