Well I took my 5 smooth collie babies off to Sydney to be tested
today, $245 later, 1 certificate but 5 clear puppies Woohooo. Way to
go Sway and Forrest.
Jacq
Subject: [ozeyescheme] This is a posting that I think is relevant......
Mouse Story
A mouse looked through the crack in the wall to see
the farmer and his wife
open a package.
"What food might this contain?" The mouse wondered
- he was devastated to
discover it was a mousetrap.
Retreating to the farmyard, the mouse proclaimed the
warning. "There is a
mousetrap in the house! There is a mousetrap in the
house!"
The chicken clucked and scratched, raised her head
and said, "Mr. Mouse, I
can tell this is a grave concern to you but it is of
no consequence to me.
I cannot be bothered by it."
The mouse turned to the pig and told him, "There is
a mousetrap in the
house! There is a mousetrap in the house!"
The pig sympathized, but said, "I am so very sorry,
Mr. Mouse, but there is
nothing I can do about it but pray. Be assured you
are in my prayers."
The mouse turned to the cow and said, "There is a
mousetrap in the house!
There is a mousetrap in the house!"
The cow said, "Wow, Mr. Mouse. I'm sorry for you,
but it's no skin off my
nose."
So, the mouse returned to the house, head down and
dejected, to face the
farmer's mousetrap - alone.
That very night a sound was heard throughout the
house - like the sound of a
mousetrap catching its prey.
The farmer's wife rushed to see what was caught. In
the darkness, she did
not see it was a venomous snake whose tail the trap
had caught. The snake
bit the farmer's wife. The farmer rushed her to the
hospital and she
returned home with a fever. Everyone knows you
treat a fever with fresh
chicken soup, so the farmer took his hatchet to the
farmyard for the soup's
main ingredient.
But his wife's sickness continued, so friends and
neighbors came to sit with
her around the clock. To feed them, the farmer
butchered the pig.
The farmer's wife did not get well; she died. So
many people came for her funeral that the farmer had the cow slaughtered to
provide enough meat for
all of them.
The mouse looked upon it all from his crack in the
wall with great sadness.
So, the next time you hear someone is facing a
problem and think it doesn't
concern you, remember - when one of us is
threatened, we are all at risk.
We are all involved in this journey called Life. We
must keep an eye out
for one another and make an extra effort to
encourage one another.
Do you still believe that PETA and other animal
rights groups' activities
won't affect you? There is a mousetrap in the
house!
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.10/875 - Release Date: 27/06/2007 9:08 p.m.
Mouse Story
A mouse looked through the crack in the wall to see
the farmer and his wife
open a package.
"What food might this contain?" The mouse wondered
- he was devastated to
discover it was a mousetrap.
Retreating to the farmyard, the mouse proclaimed the
warning. "There is a
mousetrap in the house! There is a mousetrap in the
house!"
The chicken clucked and scratched, raised her head
and said, "Mr. Mouse, I
can tell this is a grave concern to you but it is of
no consequence to me.
I cannot be bothered by it."
The mouse turned to the pig and told him, "There is
a mousetrap in the
house! There is a mousetrap in the house!"
The pig sympathized, but said, "I am so very sorry,
Mr. Mouse, but there is
nothing I can do about it but pray. Be assured you
are in my prayers."
The mouse turned to the cow and said, "There is a
mousetrap in the house!
There is a mousetrap in the house!"
The cow said, "Wow, Mr. Mouse. I'm sorry for you,
but it's no skin off my
nose."
So, the mouse returned to the house, head down and
dejected, to face the
farmer's mousetrap - alone.
That very night a sound was heard throughout the
house - like the sound of a
mousetrap catching its prey.
The farmer's wife rushed to see what was caught. In
the darkness, she did
not see it was a venomous snake whose tail the trap
had caught. The snake
bit the farmer's wife. The farmer rushed her to the
hospital and she
returned home with a fever. Everyone knows you
treat a fever with fresh
chicken soup, so the farmer took his hatchet to the
farmyard for the soup's
main ingredient.
But his wife's sickness continued, so friends and
neighbors came to sit with
her around the clock. To feed them, the farmer
butchered the pig.
The farmer's wife did not get well; she died. So
many people came for her funeral that the farmer had the cow
slaughtered to
provide enough meat for
all of them.
The mouse looked upon it all from his crack in the
wall with great sadness.
So, the next time you hear someone is facing a
problem and think it doesn't
concern you, remember - when one of us is
threatened, we are all at risk.
We are all involved in this journey called Life. We
must keep an eye out
for one another and make an extra effort to
encourage one another.
Do you still believe that PETA and other animal
rights groups' activities
won't affect you? There is a mousetrap in the
house!
Thanks Mim,
I've been on lists that have been wrecked by them. People just leave.
We need this list.
Barbara B
<>I will see what I can do. I don't know if that
happened because this list is not moderated in the strict sense (and
that was deliberate as we wanted this list to be as accessible as
possible and to allow people to have a say with out waiting for
moderation).
Spammers seem to be able to get to everything....... I hate them
too!!
Sorry people, and particularly Barbara, about the spam
I will see what I can do. I don't know if that happened because this list is not moderated in the strict sense (and that was deliberate as we wanted this list to be as accessible as possible and to allow people to have a say with out waiting for moderation).
Spammers seem to be able to get to everything....... I hate them too!!
Cheers Mim
Barbara B <bosmans@...> wrote:
Hi moderators, I don't like getting SPAM on this list. Can this be avoided in future? Barbara B
f0xbt6 wrote:
>Come to http://gmatchs.bravehost.com to invite your friends and become >a gold member, then your dating is getting easier! > >If you invite up to 20 friends, you can get bonus or become a gold >members, then you can enjoy all of our online services. Don't hesitate, >this offer is not available on other dating sites, so come to join the >great site for singles interested in vegetarianism and environmental >protection and find your love at http://ghotsingles.bravehost.com > > > > > > >Yahoo!7 Groups Links > > > > >
>
Yahoo!7 Mail has just got even bigger and better with unlimited storage on all webmail accounts. Find out more.
Hi moderators,
I don't like getting SPAM on this list. Can this be avoided in future?
Barbara B
f0xbt6 wrote:
>Come to http://gmatchs.bravehost.com to invite your friends and become
>a gold member, then your dating is getting easier!
>
>If you invite up to 20 friends, you can get bonus or become a gold
>members, then you can enjoy all of our online services. Don't hesitate,
>this offer is not available on other dating sites, so come to join the
>great site for singles interested in vegetarianism and environmental
>protection and find your love at http://ghotsingles.bravehost.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo!7 Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Come to http://gmatchs.bravehost.com to invite your friends and become
a gold member, then your dating is getting easier!
If you invite up to 20 friends, you can get bonus or become a gold
members, then you can enjoy all of our online services. Don't hesitate,
this offer is not available on other dating sites, so come to join the
great site for singles interested in vegetarianism and environmental
protection and find your love at http://ghotsingles.bravehost.com
thanks Jacqui
thats not too bad - cheaper than we get it here in tassie!!
Kerry
>Sorry should have explained better will blaim it on being sleep
>deprived yes Kerry $150 for the 3 so $50 per pup.
>
>Jacq
--
Kerry Webb
Ngalla Kennels & Cattery
Breeding for type and soundness of mind & body.
http://ngalla.com
Sorry should have explained better will blaim it on being sleep
deprived yes Kerry $150 for the 3 so $50 per pup.
Jacq
--- In ozeyescheme@..., Kerry Webb <kerry@...> wrote:
>
> Jacqui
>
>
> surely you don't mean $150 per pup for the first three?? (that
would
> be outrageous)
>
> or is it 1-3 pups total $150 - so $50 per pup and after that $37
>
> just curious
>
> thanks
>
> Kerry
>
>
> >Hi Peter
> >I have a litter of 5 to be tested in about 5 weeks time, I rang
Jeff
> >Smith to find out when he was coming to Canberra and the costs.
Here
> >is the break up:
> >$10 ACES Certificate
> >$150 for the first 1 - 3 pups
> >$37 per pup after that.
> >I asked if I could have individual certificates and got told yes,
we
> >will wait and see how much info I get and if I get individual
> >certificates or not.
> >
> >Jacqui
> >Eridor Smooth Collies
>
> --
> Kerry Webb
> Ngalla Kennels & Cattery
> Breeding for type and soundness of mind & body.
> http://ngalla.com
>
Jacqui
surely you don't mean $150 per pup for the first three?? (that would
be outrageous)
or is it 1-3 pups total $150 - so $50 per pup and after that $37
just curious
thanks
Kerry
>Hi Peter
>I have a litter of 5 to be tested in about 5 weeks time, I rang Jeff
>Smith to find out when he was coming to Canberra and the costs. Here
>is the break up:
>$10 ACES Certificate
>$150 for the first 1 - 3 pups
>$37 per pup after that.
>I asked if I could have individual certificates and got told yes, we
>will wait and see how much info I get and if I get individual
>certificates or not.
>
>Jacqui
>Eridor Smooth Collies
--
Kerry Webb
Ngalla Kennels & Cattery
Breeding for type and soundness of mind & body.
http://ngalla.com
Hi Peter
I have a litter of 5 to be tested in about 5 weeks time, I rang Jeff
Smith to find out when he was coming to Canberra and the costs. Here
is the break up:
$10 ACES Certificate
$150 for the first 1 - 3 pups
$37 per pup after that.
I asked if I could have individual certificates and got told yes, we
will wait and see how much info I get and if I get individual
certificates or not.
Jacqui
Eridor Smooth Collies
--- In ozeyescheme@..., "Peter Cook , Patrick
Migliaccio" <balinfern.collies@...> wrote:
>
> Just thought it might be of general interest to tell you my
> experience of seeking eye testing with Mike Bernays a ACES
registered
> eye specialist in Brisbane.
>
> I have only ever used him and we have had a somewhat strained
> relationship at times in the past. I travel from Lismore to
Brisbane
> to see him.
>
> I have two pups to test shortly when they are six weeks of age. I
> rang to ask whether I could get individual certificates and to
> confirm that I could get full details of the level of affect of
any
> problems.
>
> It took a few days for his assistant to get back to me to say if
they
> had the standard ACES litter test it would cost $49.50 per pup but
> the results would be on one form and would only identify whether
they
> were affected by CEA or not. Yes I could have separate forms but
they
> would cost $66 but would not show the degree of affectation of any
> CEA problem or otherwise. I said this was not satisfactory for a
> breed like collie rough as the vast majority were affected so in
> effect the certificate was worthless. I needed full details for
each
> pup for new owners and to decide how they should be registered and
if
> they could be used in my future breeding program.
>
> Mike Bernays then rang back to ask what I wanted and I explained
> again. He said his assistant misunderstood me and that if I paid
$66
> per pup I could get an individual certificate per pup which had
full
> details of the degree of affectation of any problem. I said I was
was
> very pleased to hear this because I was concerned that I would not
> get this because the ACES doumcntaion says clearly that the ACES
eye
> specialist would not discuss the results or details? He chose not
to
> specifically answer this point and I let it be.
>
> He was very business like and said 'you are the one who had
> discussions with Bruce Robertson sometime ago about CEA testing
> scheme'. This was in 2000/1 so how he knew and remembered that I
> don't know. Robertson cut all communication with me in 2001 when I
> tried to suggest to him that he needed to work with long term
> experienced breeders who had testing results and breeding outcomes
> over many years(not me!) to work out the details of his ACES
scheme.
> He was not interested and his ideas at that time are not
particularly
> different to what his final piece of work details! In essence if
> affected don't use in a breeding program!
>
> Anyway I will get what I need dispite it not being in accord with
the
> written word of the ACES! Seems there is the ACES scheme and then
> there is what they actually do!
>
> I'd be interested in what others are getting from ACES registered
eye
> specialists in Sydney for example? That is what information you
are
> getting on your certificates (apart from CEA affected or not) and
the
> less important issue of how much you are being charged?
>
> Best wishes
> Peter
> Balinfern
>
Just thought it might be of general interest to tell you my
experience of seeking eye testing with Mike Bernays a ACES registered
eye specialist in Brisbane.
I have only ever used him and we have had a somewhat strained
relationship at times in the past. I travel from Lismore to Brisbane
to see him.
I have two pups to test shortly when they are six weeks of age. I
rang to ask whether I could get individual certificates and to
confirm that I could get full details of the level of affect of any
problems.
It took a few days for his assistant to get back to me to say if they
had the standard ACES litter test it would cost $49.50 per pup but
the results would be on one form and would only identify whether they
were affected by CEA or not. Yes I could have separate forms but they
would cost $66 but would not show the degree of affectation of any
CEA problem or otherwise. I said this was not satisfactory for a
breed like collie rough as the vast majority were affected so in
effect the certificate was worthless. I needed full details for each
pup for new owners and to decide how they should be registered and if
they could be used in my future breeding program.
Mike Bernays then rang back to ask what I wanted and I explained
again. He said his assistant misunderstood me and that if I paid $66
per pup I could get an individual certificate per pup which had full
details of the degree of affectation of any problem. I said I was was
very pleased to hear this because I was concerned that I would not
get this because the ACES doumcntaion says clearly that the ACES eye
specialist would not discuss the results or details? He chose not to
specifically answer this point and I let it be.
He was very business like and said 'you are the one who had
discussions with Bruce Robertson sometime ago about CEA testing
scheme'. This was in 2000/1 so how he knew and remembered that I
don't know. Robertson cut all communication with me in 2001 when I
tried to suggest to him that he needed to work with long term
experienced breeders who had testing results and breeding outcomes
over many years(not me!) to work out the details of his ACES scheme.
He was not interested and his ideas at that time are not particularly
different to what his final piece of work details! In essence if
affected don't use in a breeding program!
Anyway I will get what I need dispite it not being in accord with the
written word of the ACES! Seems there is the ACES scheme and then
there is what they actually do!
I'd be interested in what others are getting from ACES registered eye
specialists in Sydney for example? That is what information you are
getting on your certificates (apart from CEA affected or not) and the
less important issue of how much you are being charged?
Best wishes
Peter
Balinfern
Sorry everyone - especially Sylvia......
I didn't realise I had to go back to my emails to pick up the
attachment. Dumb me. I have been educated now.
Cheers Mim
--- In ozeyescheme@..., "Julia Soltoggio"
<julia24@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mim,
>
>
>
> It came through to me with the attachment.
>
>
>
> Cheers Julia.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: ozeyescheme@...
[mailto:ozeyescheme@...]
> On Behalf Of roughsandsmooths
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2007 7:30 AM
> To: ozeyescheme@...
> Subject: [ozeyescheme] Re: Tas Collie and Sheltie Club Letter to TCA
>
>
>
> -
> Hi Sylvia
>
> Sorry, but it seems that your document did not attach????
>
> Cheers Mim
>
> -- In ozeyescheme@ <mailto:ozeyescheme%40yahoogroups.com.au>
> yahoogroups.com.au, "Sylvia Power" <zenchel@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Attached is the Labrador Retriever National Breed Council
> submission to the
> > NBC Conference in August. Dr Robertson has actually already been
> invited to
> > the Conference by the ANKC.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Sylvia
> >
>
Subject: RE: [ozeyescheme] Re: Tas Collie and Sheltie Club Letter to TCA
Hi Mim,
It came through to me with the attachment.
Cheers Julia.
From:ozeyescheme@... [mailto:ozeyescheme@...] On Behalf Of roughsandsmooths Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2007 7:30 AM To:ozeyescheme@... Subject: [ozeyescheme] Re: Tas Collie and Sheltie Club Letter to TCA
- Hi Sylvia
Sorry, but it seems that your document did not attach????
Cheers Mim
-- In ozeyescheme@yahoogroups.com.au, "Sylvia Power" <zenchel@...> wrote: > > Attached is the Labrador Retriever National Breed Council submission to the > NBC Conference in August. Dr Robertson has actually already been invited to > the Conference by the ANKC. > > Regards, > > Sylvia >
From:ozeyescheme@... [mailto:ozeyescheme@...] On Behalf Of roughsandsmooths Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2007 7:30 AM To:ozeyescheme@... Subject: [ozeyescheme] Re: Tas
Collie and Sheltie Club Letter to TCA
-
Hi Sylvia
Sorry, but it seems that your document did not attach????
Cheers Mim
-- In ozeyescheme@yahoogroups.com.au,
"Sylvia Power" <zenchel@...>
wrote:
>
> Attached is the Labrador Retriever National Breed Council
submission to the
> NBC Conference in August. Dr Robertson has actually already been
invited to
> the Conference by the ANKC.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sylvia
>
-
Hi Sylvia
Sorry, but it seems that your document did not attach????
Cheers Mim
-- In ozeyescheme@..., "Sylvia Power" <zenchel@...>
wrote:
>
> Attached is the Labrador Retriever National Breed Council
submission to the
> NBC Conference in August. Dr Robertson has actually already been
invited to
> the Conference by the ANKC.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sylvia
>
Attached is the Labrador Retriever National Breed Council submission to the
NBC Conference in August. Dr Robertson has actually already been invited to
the Conference by the ANKC.
Regards,
Sylvia
You are to be congratulated on putting pen to paper and clearly outlining our concerns with the proposed AustralianCanine Eye Scheme(ACES).
I was speaking with the President of the ACTCA tonight and was told if we don't make a submission to our respective controlling bodies regarding our stand on the Aces eye scheme before the 30th June2007 so they can make a submission to the ANKC meeting in October, it will go through unopposed.
It is obviously too late for the National Breed Councils to do anything if they haven't already done so as their submissions had to be in by C.O.B. 28-5-07 for the meeting of National Breed Councils on 25th August 2007.
Anne Gordon
__________ NOD32 1.1235 (20050928) Information __________
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Well done Mim.
Barbara B
> I have just uploaded a document to the FILES called ASSESSMENT OF
> ACES BY THE TAS COLLIE AND SHETLAND SHEEPDOG CLUB - this assessment
> was sent with the letter (reprinted below) to the Tasmanian Canine
> Association asking for both the letter and the "Assessment" to be
> table at the next ANKC meeting.
>
I have just uploaded a document to the FILES called ASSESSMENT OF ACES BY THE TAS COLLIE AND SHETLAND SHEEPDOG CLUB - this assessment was sent with the letter (reprinted below) to the Tasmanian Canine Association asking for both the letter and the "Assessment" to be table at the next ANKC meeting.
Here is the letter sent to the TCA:
Mim Bester President Tasmanian Collie and Shetland Sheepdog Club C/- 2310 Shrub End Road WATTLE HILL 7172
4th May 2007
Mr Kerry Smith Executive Officer Tasmanian Canine Association P O Box 116 GLENORCHY 7010
Dear Mr Smith
RE: THE AUSTRALIAN CANINE EYE SCHEME (ACES)
I am asking on behalf of the Tasmanian Collie and Shetland Sheepdog Club that you present this letter and the following documentation as an agenda item for the next ANKC meeting.
The Tasmanian Collie and Shetland Sheepdog Club has sent a letter to the Collie National Breed Club (CNBC), but due to the fact that our Club is a combined club we do not have a voice or voting rights through the CNBC. So therefore we are asking our State Association to represent us.
The Tasmanian Collie and Shetland Sheepdog Club strongly advocates testing for any health problems in our breeds where tests are available. All current member breeders of our club do test for diseases within our puppies and breeding stock (for several inherited diseases – not just eye diseases) and have been doing so for many years. However our Club has read and discussed the documentation pertaining to the Australian Canine Eye Scheme (ACES) and we strongly oppose the structure and documentation that is the foundation of this eye scheme and the way it has been implemented and the fact that it is promoted as a voluntary scheme – but it is NOT a voluntary scheme.
There have been no breed surveys conducted in regard to this Scheme – on any level. Very few breeders are aware of ACES and those that are, largely have not read the documentation, or indeed have not been informed as to where they can find the documentation that supports the Scheme. Breeders are not aware that this Scheme is proposed as a forerunner of other Schemes. From between the beginning of 2004 to the Feb/March issue 2007, we can only find one reference to ACES in The Gazette. This was in the Dec/Jan 2007 issue, page 11, in the Summary of TCA INC Council Minutes 18th October 2006 where it says Dogs NSW "would not be involved with the AVA/ANKC Australian Canine Eye Scheme".
So as breeders, in the main, still do not have an understanding of this Scheme, and in light of the fact that Dr Robertson admitted at the NSW Meeting on April 12th to breeders that the AVA did not support the scheme and considered it to be hot potato why has the ANKC allowed this scheme to be implemented? In documentation attached, Dr Robertson writes that the Scheme has been up and running for 6 months. How come? On enquiry we have been consistently told this could not happen until breed surveys had been completed. So why IS this Scheme "up and running"?
Another crucial element: Dr Robertson, an ophthalmologist, dog breeder and dog judge, says that this Scheme has been "in the making" for 9 years (and at other times 5 years), so it beggars belief that the documentation could be so wrong e.g. in the case of the Schedules where you would expect, because of interbreeding between Rough and Smooth Collies, that they would have the same eye problems – according to the Schedules – they don't. The Australian Shepherd is susceptible to CEA but is not listed on either Schedule. Labs have the exact same problem listed on both Schedules and there is at least one breed, where the problem that is listed is not seen in the breed in Australia. Further, when questioned at the 12th April meeting in NSW this year about the statement used in the documentation were it says `...the ANKC has the power to insist on an "unaffected" test report as a prerequisite to litter registration", Dr Robertson admitted that this might not be the case. However even since then, the documentation has not been changed to reflect that, nor have we been advised that it would be changed. How come so many errors after 9 years in the making? Why wouldn't a dog judge, working along side the ANKC, not know the rules and at the very least check the rules before publishing the documentation?
Consistently, throughout the documentation Dr Robertson has toted that we need to eye test to protect ourselves from consumer protection law in buyer disputes; that we should be offering the public better quality puppies; that through eye testing we can be offering guarantees of eye health to pet buyers etc,. One gets the distinct impression that this is about breeding for the pet market – which in fact is against our Code of Ethics.
Due to this unprecedented event, happening in the fashion that it has, and with such serious implications and outrageous documentation, we as ask that this Scheme be abolished until such time that: • breeders are fully aware of this Scheme and all ramifications it represents • breed surveys have been fully conducted • the documentation that supports this scheme is: 1. accurate 2. reasonable – does not impinge on gene pools and breeder's rights and responsibilities 3. truly reflects and supports the needs of breeders 4. is truly voluntary
I have enclosed several documents and papers that support our reasons including signatures from a petition that has been running on the World Wide Web.
Kind regards
Mim Bester President Tasmanian Collie and Shetland Sheepdog Club
cc. President TCA, D. Sales, Canine Health Committee Members, P Hallam, S. Axton, C Eastley, F Harris, P Lincoln, L Binns
Encl; The Tasmanian Collie and Shetland Sheepdog Clubs Assessment of ACES Petition signatures from WWW
Hi Pam, If you look back at the November 2005 Victorian Sheltie Titbits there is a 2 page discussion on the National Eye Scheme. Regards Rae, P.O. SSCV Inc.
pamela wrote:
That's the whole problem with this. We are mostly hearing of what is happening in dribs and drabs.
To tell the truth, without the Lists a lot of us would still be in the dark, and as Leslie says, it is all taking FAR TOO LONG to come together.
When you don't know about these meetings, you can't attend to have a say.
At a show we attended on the week-end, on asking around, we found many, many people (in all breeds) who STILL don't know anything about ACES.
This really isn't good enough, it should already have been in our club newsletters.
Fore-armed is fore-warned as the saying goes. By the time all this is collated and passed from the NBC to the breed clubs for members to have a say on, it may be too embedded with the ANKC for us to do anything about. I hope that won't be the case.
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/818 - Release Date: 25/05/2007 12:32 PM
Hi Pam,
If you look back at the November 2005 Victorian Sheltie Titbits there is
a 2 page
discussion on the National Eye Scheme.
Regards Rae,
P.O. SSCV Inc.
pamela wrote:
That's the whole problem
with this. We are mostly hearing of what is happening in dribs and drabs.
To tell the truth,
without the Lists a lot of us would still be in the dark, and as Leslie
says, it is all taking FAR TOO LONG to come together.
When you don't know
about these meetings, you can't attend to have a say.
At a show we attended
on the week-end, on asking around, we found many, many people (in all breeds)
who STILL don't know anything about ACES.
This really isn't good
enough, it should already have been in our club newsletters.
Fore-armed is fore-warned
as the saying goes. By the time all this is collated and passed from the
NBC to the breed clubs for members to have a say on, it may be too embedded
with the ANKC for us to do anything about. I hope that won't be the case.
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/818 - Release Date: 25/05/2007 12:32 PM
That's the whole problem with this. We are mostly hearing of what is happening in dribs and drabs.
To tell the truth, without the Lists a lot of us would still be in the dark, and as Leslie says, it is all taking FAR TOO LONG to come together.
When you don't know about these meetings, you can't attend to have a say.
At a show we attended on the week-end, on asking around, we found many, many people (in all breeds) who STILL don't know anything about ACES.
This really isn't good enough, it should already have been in our club newsletters.
Fore-armed is fore-warned as the saying goes. By the time all this is collated and passed from the NBC to the breed clubs for members to have a say on, it may be too embedded with the ANKC for us to do anything about. I hope that won't be the case.
Many thanks for enlightening us. It is encouraging
to hear that maybe Dr Robertson is listening to us and hopefully something
positive will happen.
Cheers Julia,
Sunland Shelties
Perth, Western
Australia.
From:ozeyescheme@... [mailto:ozeyescheme@...] On Behalf Of foxbell01 Sent: Saturday, 26 May 2007 9:18
PM To:ozeyescheme@... Subject: [ozeyescheme] Re:
Meetings
Perhaps I can shed some light on the Meeting with Dr.
Robertson as I
was in attendance.
Before I start, may I say I don't check Emails every day so that is
why I have not answered this question until now.
Firstly as Sylvia has said, Dr. Robertson was invited to Melbourne
by the LR NBC for their meeting on 20th May and I believe he was
also asked to be involved (late notification to him) at an AVA
Conference workshop which was held on the Friday before which meant
he would be in Melbourne with a free day on Saturday 19th May.
With this in mind, and fully aware that it was extremely short
notice,(email contact to me on 15th May), Dr. Robertson contacted
the Executive members (eg President/Secretary) of the Breed Clubs (&
NBCs) with CEA eye testing, with a view to holding a casual meeting
in an endeavour to "thrash out the issues and point to a way forward
for your breeds, not a full blown meeting of members which would
take longer to organise" (his words not mine).
The Email was forwarded to:
Collie Club of Victoria Secretary - Kerry Thompson & President Carol
Freeman
Aust. Shepherd Club Secretary - Niki Janetzki -
Border Collie Club Acting Secretary - Susan Krol - ; President Jenny
McLeish -
Shetland Sheepdog Club President - Beth Tennyson - ; Margaret Warker
National Secretary -
Collie National President Janice Cook.
To be fair to Dr. Robertson, he admits that he is aware of the
special set of conditions that we face in working out how to deal
with testing for CEA as opposed to other breeds eye testing, and he
also agrees that one of the ways to move forward from the current
situation is by frank discussions. This is why he wanted to meet
with Executive Members of those Clubs/NBCs involved to try and get a
feel for what the Club Members wanted and possibly how a more
structured meeting (with plenty of notice to those wishing to
attend) could occur.
Due to the late notification and the fact that it was to be
an 'informal meeting' with a relatively small number of people (and
also in an endeavour to save costs of booking a meeting room
anywhere)a suggestion was made to meet at the McDonalds near KCC Park.
Thanks go to Margaret Walker who at the last minute contacted
everyone by telephone to try and ensure we had representation from
each Breed Club. Present on the day were two people representing
Shetland Sheepdogs, two representing Collies, and one person each
representing the Australian Shepherds and Border Collies.
The discussions were quite lively and lasted approximately 2 hours.
No formal minutes were taken, however notes of the discussion were
documented by a few of us and Dr. Robertson also wrote down items
which he wanted to take further with either the ACES Panellists or
the ANKC.
As I stated earlier, Dr. Robertson acknowleges some alterations to
the current system need to be looked into, and he also enlightened
those in attendance to the possible reasons why there have been some
problems in implementing ACES. Perhaps we should be asking more
questions of the ANKC when it comes to having this scheme thrust
upon us without consultation.
I believe Dr. Robertson heard what we were saying in relation to
CEA, especially when it comes to Annual Testing (not necessary he
admits); single certificate for litter screening (he, & other ACES
Panellists can supply a letter detailing individual puppy results at
no extra cost); layout of the Litter Certificate (he took notes of
possible changes); non-recording of Litter Screening results;
Database storage etc.
I came away from these discussions thinking that perhaps something
positive may now start to happen. Unfortunately as yet I have heard
no follow up, however I believe that Dr. Robertson is now on an
overseas visit to a 'world wide' conference of Veterinary Eye
Specialist so we may not hear anything until his return.
I trust this has answered the questions some of you have had in
relation to 'the meeting'.
Regards,
JANICE COOK
PRESIDENT COLLIE NATIONAL BREED COUNCIL
PS: The coffee & cake at the restaurant was very nice and helped
make my long drive more enjoyable!!
>
> The Labrador Retriever NBC invited Dr Robertson to attend their
meeting to
> be hald at the LRCV Champ Show on Sunday May 20th. This invitation
went out
> approx 6 weeks ago. Dr Robertson said he would come however asked
the LRNBC
> to pay his way. The NBC replied that they wouldn't. Dr Robertson
indicated
> his willingness to attend anyway and said that if he met with "the
Collie
> people" he may be able to claim expenses back from the AVA. He
indicated
> that he was coming about 7 - 10 days before the weekend in
question. The
> LRNBC meeting was held in the room above the secretary's office at KCCPark.
> Maccas??? Good grief :))
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sylvia
>
Hi Janice
Thank you so much for information. It is great news that Dr Robertson
is at last listening to some of our concerns. I agree with Dr Robertson
that a lot of the problems in the Documentation are directly related to
issues concerning the ANKC. However one of the probelms I have with that
is I find it hard to understand why they talked of such things as the
ANKC inherited diseases data base like it existed, and then tell us
later that the data base does exit and now results will be recorded on
the AVA data base. I understand too that Dr Robertson has admitted that
maybe the ANKC does not have the right to impose eye testing as a
prerequisite to litter registratoins - but he did not realise this when
he wrote the documents. If the ANKC and The AVA were working in
conjunction - which is what you would expect when it this scheme called
the AVA- ANKC Australian Canine Eye Scheme - why did these things get
into the documents? Why was not this document scrutinized and edited
before publication? There are just so many errors and problems and I
find in incredulous that after 9 year in the making of this scheme and
4-5 year in consultation with the ANKC these problems occured. Why did
the ANKC let this documentation go through? Does anybody else see this
as a concern?
However if all the problems that we have identified between us ( such
as the list below) can be sorted - I will be the first one to accept and
use the scheme
a)The Scheme is voluntary and that there is access to testing outside
of ACES
b) We know where the data is stored, who has access to it and who owns
it
c) that only NBC's - after a properly conducted NATIONAL BREED SURVEY
has any right to decided breeding issues such as if and what tests are
requried prior to registration etc (These rights belong to the breeder
not the ANKC or the AVA)
d) that the Scheme is transparent, and accountable.
e) and all the other issues we discussed such as annual testing, being
able to adeautely access services etc.
However the only way forward is through discussion with Dr Robertson
and perserverance. Once again Janice thank you for writing and I hope
too that some of the issues have been resolved. Well done.
Can you specifally tell us some of the issues discussed and the
resolutions? What questions did you have in mind when you said we should
be asking more questions of the ANKC?
Cheer Mim
Cheers Mim
--- In ozeyescheme@..., "foxbell01" <foxbell@...> wrote:
>
> Perhaps I can shed some light on the Meeting with Dr. Robertson as I
> was in attendance.
>
> Before I start, may I say I don't check Emails every day so that is
> why I have not answered this question until now.
>
> Firstly as Sylvia has said, Dr. Robertson was invited to Melbourne
> by the LR NBC for their meeting on 20th May and I believe he was
> also asked to be involved (late notification to him) at an AVA
> Conference workshop which was held on the Friday before which meant
> he would be in Melbourne with a free day on Saturday 19th May.
>
> With this in mind, and fully aware that it was extremely short
> notice,(email contact to me on 15th May), Dr. Robertson contacted
> the Executive members (eg President/Secretary) of the Breed Clubs (&
> NBCs) with CEA eye testing, with a view to holding a casual meeting
> in an endeavour to "thrash out the issues and point to a way forward
> for your breeds, not a full blown meeting of members which would
> take longer to organise" (his words not mine).
>
> The Email was forwarded to:
>
> Collie Club of Victoria Secretary - Kerry Thompson & President Carol
> Freeman
> Aust. Shepherd Club Secretary - Niki Janetzki -
> Border Collie Club Acting Secretary - Susan Krol - ; President Jenny
> McLeish -
> Shetland Sheepdog Club President - Beth Tennyson - ; Margaret Warker
> National Secretary -
> Collie National President Janice Cook.
>
> To be fair to Dr. Robertson, he admits that he is aware of the
> special set of conditions that we face in working out how to deal
> with testing for CEA as opposed to other breeds eye testing, and he
> also agrees that one of the ways to move forward from the current
> situation is by frank discussions. This is why he wanted to meet
> with Executive Members of those Clubs/NBCs involved to try and get a
> feel for what the Club Members wanted and possibly how a more
> structured meeting (with plenty of notice to those wishing to
> attend) could occur.
>
> Due to the late notification and the fact that it was to be
> an 'informal meeting' with a relatively small number of people (and
> also in an endeavour to save costs of booking a meeting room
> anywhere)a suggestion was made to meet at the McDonalds near KCC
> Park.
>
> Thanks go to Margaret Walker who at the last minute contacted
> everyone by telephone to try and ensure we had representation from
> each Breed Club. Present on the day were two people representing
> Shetland Sheepdogs, two representing Collies, and one person each
> representing the Australian Shepherds and Border Collies.
>
> The discussions were quite lively and lasted approximately 2 hours.
> No formal minutes were taken, however notes of the discussion were
> documented by a few of us and Dr. Robertson also wrote down items
> which he wanted to take further with either the ACES Panellists or
> the ANKC.
>
> As I stated earlier, Dr. Robertson acknowleges some alterations to
> the current system need to be looked into, and he also enlightened
> those in attendance to the possible reasons why there have been some
> problems in implementing ACES. Perhaps we should be asking more
> questions of the ANKC when it comes to having this scheme thrust
> upon us without consultation.
>
> I believe Dr. Robertson heard what we were saying in relation to
> CEA, especially when it comes to Annual Testing (not necessary he
> admits); single certificate for litter screening (he, & other ACES
> Panellists can supply a letter detailing individual puppy results at
> no extra cost); layout of the Litter Certificate (he took notes of
> possible changes); non-recording of Litter Screening results;
> Database storage etc.
>
> I came away from these discussions thinking that perhaps something
> positive may now start to happen. Unfortunately as yet I have heard
> no follow up, however I believe that Dr. Robertson is now on an
> overseas visit to a 'world wide' conference of Veterinary Eye
> Specialist so we may not hear anything until his return.
>
> I trust this has answered the questions some of you have had in
> relation to 'the meeting'.
>
> Regards,
> JANICE COOK
> PRESIDENT COLLIE NATIONAL BREED COUNCIL
>
> PS: The coffee & cake at the restaurant was very nice and helped
> make my long drive more enjoyable!!
>
>
> >
> > The Labrador Retriever NBC invited Dr Robertson to attend their
> meeting to
> > be hald at the LRCV Champ Show on Sunday May 20th. This invitation
> went out
> > approx 6 weeks ago. Dr Robertson said he would come however asked
> the LRNBC
> > to pay his way. The NBC replied that they wouldn't. Dr Robertson
> indicated
> > his willingness to attend anyway and said that if he met with "the
> Collie
> > people" he may be able to claim expenses back from the AVA. He
> indicated
> > that he was coming about 7 - 10 days before the weekend in
> question. The
> > LRNBC meeting was held in the room above the secretary's office at
> KCC Park.
> > Maccas??? Good grief :))
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Sylvia
> >
>
Perhaps I can shed some light on the Meeting with Dr. Robertson as I
was in attendance.
Before I start, may I say I don't check Emails every day so that is
why I have not answered this question until now.
Firstly as Sylvia has said, Dr. Robertson was invited to Melbourne
by the LR NBC for their meeting on 20th May and I believe he was
also asked to be involved (late notification to him) at an AVA
Conference workshop which was held on the Friday before which meant
he would be in Melbourne with a free day on Saturday 19th May.
With this in mind, and fully aware that it was extremely short
notice,(email contact to me on 15th May), Dr. Robertson contacted
the Executive members (eg President/Secretary) of the Breed Clubs (&
NBCs) with CEA eye testing, with a view to holding a casual meeting
in an endeavour to "thrash out the issues and point to a way forward
for your breeds, not a full blown meeting of members which would
take longer to organise" (his words not mine).
The Email was forwarded to:
Collie Club of Victoria Secretary - Kerry Thompson & President Carol
Freeman
Aust. Shepherd Club Secretary - Niki Janetzki -
Border Collie Club Acting Secretary - Susan Krol - ; President Jenny
McLeish -
Shetland Sheepdog Club President - Beth Tennyson - ; Margaret Warker
National Secretary -
Collie National President Janice Cook.
To be fair to Dr. Robertson, he admits that he is aware of the
special set of conditions that we face in working out how to deal
with testing for CEA as opposed to other breeds eye testing, and he
also agrees that one of the ways to move forward from the current
situation is by frank discussions. This is why he wanted to meet
with Executive Members of those Clubs/NBCs involved to try and get a
feel for what the Club Members wanted and possibly how a more
structured meeting (with plenty of notice to those wishing to
attend) could occur.
Due to the late notification and the fact that it was to be
an 'informal meeting' with a relatively small number of people (and
also in an endeavour to save costs of booking a meeting room
anywhere)a suggestion was made to meet at the McDonalds near KCC
Park.
Thanks go to Margaret Walker who at the last minute contacted
everyone by telephone to try and ensure we had representation from
each Breed Club. Present on the day were two people representing
Shetland Sheepdogs, two representing Collies, and one person each
representing the Australian Shepherds and Border Collies.
The discussions were quite lively and lasted approximately 2 hours.
No formal minutes were taken, however notes of the discussion were
documented by a few of us and Dr. Robertson also wrote down items
which he wanted to take further with either the ACES Panellists or
the ANKC.
As I stated earlier, Dr. Robertson acknowleges some alterations to
the current system need to be looked into, and he also enlightened
those in attendance to the possible reasons why there have been some
problems in implementing ACES. Perhaps we should be asking more
questions of the ANKC when it comes to having this scheme thrust
upon us without consultation.
I believe Dr. Robertson heard what we were saying in relation to
CEA, especially when it comes to Annual Testing (not necessary he
admits); single certificate for litter screening (he, & other ACES
Panellists can supply a letter detailing individual puppy results at
no extra cost); layout of the Litter Certificate (he took notes of
possible changes); non-recording of Litter Screening results;
Database storage etc.
I came away from these discussions thinking that perhaps something
positive may now start to happen. Unfortunately as yet I have heard
no follow up, however I believe that Dr. Robertson is now on an
overseas visit to a 'world wide' conference of Veterinary Eye
Specialist so we may not hear anything until his return.
I trust this has answered the questions some of you have had in
relation to 'the meeting'.
Regards,
JANICE COOK
PRESIDENT COLLIE NATIONAL BREED COUNCIL
PS: The coffee & cake at the restaurant was very nice and helped
make my long drive more enjoyable!!
>
> The Labrador Retriever NBC invited Dr Robertson to attend their
meeting to
> be hald at the LRCV Champ Show on Sunday May 20th. This invitation
went out
> approx 6 weeks ago. Dr Robertson said he would come however asked
the LRNBC
> to pay his way. The NBC replied that they wouldn't. Dr Robertson
indicated
> his willingness to attend anyway and said that if he met with "the
Collie
> people" he may be able to claim expenses back from the AVA. He
indicated
> that he was coming about 7 - 10 days before the weekend in
question. The
> LRNBC meeting was held in the room above the secretary's office at
KCC Park.
> Maccas??? Good grief :))
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sylvia
>
Thanks for that,good to know some vets aren't joining the ACES bandwagon and to know which ones are so I can give them a miss.
regards Maureen
Pawfx Australian Shepherds
Julia Soltoggio <julia24@...> wrote:
Hi Maureen,
Well if he doesn’t the lady we use has said she definitely will not be joining the scheme. The ACES vet here is Martin King.
Cheers Julia,
Perth, Western Australia.
From: ozeyescheme@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:ozeyescheme@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Maureen Doohan Sent: Saturday, 26 May 2007 4:38 PM To: ozeyescheme@yahoogroups.com.au Subject: Re: [ozeyescheme] Costs
Just hope mine stays a non ACES, on discussing it with him he was surprised to hear that we were against the scheme as he thought it was a good idea. Mind you when I told him about some of our grievences with regard to it, he was also surprised about the problems with it, so I gather he hasn't been reading what we have been reading. He did seem a bit shocked that we could not discuss results with the vet and that the vets only checked according to what was on the list for that particular breed. Unfortunatly I'm not very good at talking to people so we did not get into an extended conversation about it, but hopefully he might look a bit closer at it if asked to sign up. He did mention that there was an ACES vet residing in WA. but I don't know who it is. I feel
so sorry for all of you that don't have an alternative to the ACES vets, and the way they are milking you all fees wise.
Back in February, I rang the clinic in Melbourne where the Ophthalmologist who services Tassie hails from and when I asked prices I was told $88.00 per puppy (the previous August I had paid much less than this even though the consultation was listed as out of office hours an he fitted me in (because he had run out of appointments) He saw me at 8:30 am. In the previous October to that I was charged approx $36.00 per puppy. I also enquired if he would work outside the scheme and was told that he would but it would cost me $154.oo per puppy!! However I believe the option of working outside the Scheme no longer exists.
I can't beleive how lucky you WA guys are. I hope you all support
your non ACES Drs to the hilt.
Well if he doesn’t the lady we use
has said she definitely will not be joining the scheme. The ACES vet here is
Martin King.
Cheers Julia,
Perth, Western
Australia.
From: ozeyescheme@...
[mailto:ozeyescheme@...] On
Behalf Of Maureen Doohan Sent: Saturday, 26 May 2007 4:38
PM To: ozeyescheme@... Subject: Re: [ozeyescheme] Costs
Just hope mine stays a non ACES, on discussing it with him he was
surprised to hear that we were against the scheme as he thought it was a good
idea. Mind you when I told him about some of our grievences with regard to it,
he was also surprised about the problems with it, so I gather he hasn't been
reading what we have been reading. He did seem a bit shocked that we could not
discuss results with the vet and that the vets only checked according to what
was on the list for that particular breed. Unfortunatly I'm not very good
at talking to people so we did not get into an extended conversation about it,
but hopefully he might look a bit closer at it if asked to sign up. He did
mention that there was an ACES vet residing in WA. but I don't know who it
is. I feel so sorry for all of you that don't have an alternative to the ACES
vets, and the way they are milking you all fees wise.
Back in February, I rang
the clinic in Melbourne
where the
Ophthalmologist who services Tassie hails from and when I asked prices
I was told $88.00 per puppy (the previous August I had paid much less
than this even though the consultation was listed as out of office
hours an he fitted me in (because he had run out of appointments) He
saw me at 8:30 am. In the previous October to that I was charged
approx $36.00 per puppy. I also enquired if he would work outside the
scheme and was told that he would but it would cost me $154.oo per
puppy!! However I believe the option of working outside the Scheme no
longer exists.
I can't beleive how lucky you WA guys are. I hope you all support your
non ACES Drs to the hilt.
Hi Sylvia I knew about the LRC NBC being in
Labs as well and good friends with Glen & Anna, but I was told that he met
with Sheltie people also, so was trying to find more about that.
Regards Julia,
Perth, Western
Australia.
From:
ozeyescheme@... [mailto:ozeyescheme@...] On Behalf Of Sylvia Power Sent: Saturday, 26 May 2007 2:49
PM To: ozeyescheme@... Subject: Re: [ozeyescheme] Re:
Meetings
The Labrador Retriever NBC invited Dr Robertson to
attend their meeting to
be hald at the LRCV Champ Show on Sunday May 20th. This invitation went out
approx 6 weeks ago. Dr Robertson said he would come however asked the LRNBC
to pay his way. The NBC replied that they wouldn't. Dr Robertson indicated
his willingness to attend anyway and said that if he met with "the Collie
people" he may be able to claim expenses back from the AVA. He indicated
that he was coming about 7 - 10 days before the weekend in question. The
LRNBC meeting was held in the room above the secretary's office at KCCPark.
Maccas??? Good grief :))
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