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Reply | Forward Message #33 of 88 |
Re: Euthanasia and the MOQ, part 1.

Hi Geoff<br>Good to 'hear' your voice again! No
'thanks' necessary, anyway, I'm enjoying taking part in
this site, and its not yours alone anyway, so dont get
all propriatorial:) (sarcastically!)<br>About nature
and God... As far as I see it, we humans are all
'natural' and part of the universe's unfolding story, so
our medical advances are also part of natures plan,
including keeping people alive when they're in a coma or
very ill for long periods. But I dont think the "it's
natural" or "not natural" arguments give us an answer as
to what should be done, or what is right or wrong at
any one time.<br>It is very hard to give sweeping
statements.Ever. WHO says that the so-called vegetable might not
miraculously 'wake up' one day, or less amazingly, but
significantly, by continuing to exist, provide scientific
answers to medical problems, or other importance for
other human beings? The fact that you dont believe in
miracles, can't predict the future, or see a point in that
persons existance is not reason enough to kill
them.<br>Most importantly, I believe is addressing the
dangerous question of who can take the role of decision
maker in ending life? My knee-jerk response is: NO ONE,
that's partly why death sentenses are wrong. <br>We are
fallible beings, the killing would be prone to corruption
and misuse (like all human activities). Who sets the
bordelines? How incapable is incapable? How much pain is
'insufferable'? We cant even quantify pain exactly - its
subjective. And that's the troulbe. The whole issue is
exptremely subjective. And so it should be! Its about life
and death after all!<br><br>As Pirsig said, (roughly)
if they aren't a threat to you or society, no one
has a right to kill another, even a convicted
murderer in prison. I do understand the difference when a
chronic pain sufferer says 'please help me to die'... but
the trouble is, even the least corrupt, caring mortal
can't judge the 'correct' point of giving the killing
poison. There is no 'correct point'.<br><br>Looking from
a more cosmic angle, I think God, or truth or
beauty or Good or universality or oneness or QUALITY
(whatever you call it, but dont be fooled, we all believe
in something!) is an all-encompassing wider notion
than even nature. And though we are part of the
universe, and have glimpses of beauty, etc, we cannot ever
'know it all' as we are just small, fallible, bits of a
wider 'truth' which is allways there and outside of the
mortal or transient. <br>I dont find it useful or
meaningful to attribute a 'will' or a pre-defined 'way' to
this notion of God/QUALITY. <br>I dont see this
universal concept as attributed with answers for precise
human quandries.<br><br>I'm still thinking about your
piece Bo, where's part 2?<br><br>Sara




Fri Apr 27, 2001 9:56 am

caledonia1963
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Message #33 of 88 |
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Hi Bo, Sara and other lurkers,<br><br>I read both of your posts found them both interesting. <br><br>Bo, I find how you said that society and technology has...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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Apr 27, 2001
6:16 am

Hi Geoff<br>Good to 'hear' your voice again! No 'thanks' necessary, anyway, I'm enjoying taking part in this site, and its not yours alone anyway, so dont get ...
caledonia1963
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Apr 27, 2001
9:56 am

Hi Sara and Geoff and all.<br>Thanks for the response. My messages aren't much of a dialogue rather like a Moses down from the mountain so I understand that ...
bo34no
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Apr 27, 2001
7:54 pm

(continued)<br>The rise of the euthanasia question I see as a manifestation of the collective (social) value and the uncanny feeling we experience in its wake...
bo34no
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Apr 27, 2001
7:56 pm

Yes, it seems I am reading ZMM again. <br>I think I missed out a whole lot things the first way through and I am now to years older.<br>So I'll give it another...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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May 3, 2001
10:45 am

Not that it's going to change anything, but were Chris Pirsig's killers ever "brought to justice"? I've not been able to find anything about that on the...
yah_me
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May 5, 2001
8:32 pm

Geoff said:<br><br>&gt;Bo, I find how you said that society and &gt;technology has advanced interesting. <br>&gt;Vegetable-like Humans without the technoloy...
bo34no
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May 7, 2001
5:49 am

A brief, first reply to your interesting, but confusing mail! Call me thick, but I found it difficult to follow your point! A few initial points and ...
caledonia1963
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May 8, 2001
10:41 am

Halooo...<br>Is there anybody out there?<br>Was it something I wrote, or is it holiday time for everyone?<br>Has noone anything to say or discuss about ...
caledonia1963
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May 17, 2001
11:04 am

Sorry for not posting lately.<br><br>The reason is that I have exams approaching next week so I have been hard at study.<br><br>After next week and a bit, I...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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May 18, 2001
6:01 am

Hi Pirsig Club.<br>We suddenly got relatives visiting from the USA and I had to act the host, but now things are back to normal.<br><br>For Geoff.<br>Stay with...
bo34no
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May 18, 2001
9:23 am

GOOOD LUCK with your studies Geoff - what's your subject(s)?<br>You didn't mention how you got on with ZMM the 2nd time around - any flashy, quick comments in...
caledonia1963
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May 18, 2001
5:48 pm

Hi KA<br>You did not get any response to your question about the murder of Chris Pirsig, but I'm afraid that I have no new information on the matter other than...
bo34no
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May 23, 2001
6:59 am

Update,<br><br>I have now completed 2 of my 5 exams.<br>English and Economics have been completed,<br>Accounting, Math with Stats and Classical Studies ...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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May 25, 2001
11:41 pm

Pirsig fans.<br>Internet discussions seem to have only two modes: full ahead and dead stop. I participate in another site (Colin Wilson) which is overflowing...
bo34no
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May 31, 2001
6:57 pm

HI Bo and all (all 2 of us regulars!!??? say something, anything , someone else, PLEASE!!!)<br><br>Im back from a sailing week (as mate, and singing ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 1, 2001
11:27 am

Hi Bo, Sara & all,<br><br>I agree that Pirsig needs a popularizer. The brutal volume of advertising that hits people every day makes it difficult for them to...
joao_csilva
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Jun 1, 2001
5:27 pm

Hallo Joao<br>Nice to here another voice here - where are you writing from - Brazil? <br>(I have a fascination with Bahia as I co-own a saveiro buiklt in ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 2, 2001
10:22 am

Hello Sara, Bo, Joao & all,<br><br>I’ve been keeping away from potential discussions, as I really need to reread both Lila and ZMM. <br><br>Sara, I like ...
discoverylover
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Jun 2, 2001
3:23 pm

Joao and Club.<br>I thought we had met before - at the Lila Squad perhaps - but see that you are a Wilson club member too. OK that's fine, you'll perhaps have...
bo34no
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Jun 3, 2001
8:21 am

I think a popularizer of Pirsig are in fact his many readers. My brother's friend recommended that I read 'ZMM'. This 'word of mouth' allowed me to discover...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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Jun 3, 2001
8:27 am

Yes Geoff, and what I was trying to add in my mailings was that, it is by being affected by Pirsig and seeing how quality can be achieved in every day in our ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 3, 2001
11:43 am

Bo, I find what you wrote interesting; I’m waiting for a continuation....
discoverylover
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Jun 3, 2001
12:22 pm

                            ...
joao_csilva
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Jun 3, 2001
4:13 pm

Hallo Clubbers... & Wow Joao!<br>A lot of words, and ethusiasm, and desperation about the state of the world - but I'm not clear about your message or question...
caledonia1963
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Jun 4, 2001
8:53 am

Hi Bo<br>My version of ZMM did not have the afterword you mention here. I am curious, perhaps rather sensationally, and I know I should really concentrate on...
caledonia1963
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Jun 4, 2001
9:10 am

For Diana: <br>As said I launched this my "change-over-time" idea at another site but was informed that a science-writer, Robert A. Wilson, had anticipated it...
bo34no
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Jun 5, 2001
7:31 am

Hi Sara,<br>You can find the afterword here:<br><a href=http://www.virtualschool.edu/mon/Quality/PirsigZen/afterword.html...
joao_csilva
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Jun 5, 2001
3:38 pm

Hey Jaoa<br>I checked out the Tao of Poo site a coupkle of days ago. Very sweet! I still have fond memories or being read Poo as a child in Scotland. ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 8, 2001
10:11 am

Thanks for this Jaoa...<br>I found it deeply sad, but beautifully written piece.<br>COndolences to him and all who have suffered the loss of a close loved ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 10, 2001
7:50 am
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