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Reply | Forward Message #35 of 88 |
Re: Euthanasia and the MOQ, part 3

(continued)<br>The rise of the euthanasia
question I see as a manifestation of the collective
(social) value and the uncanny feeling we experience in
its wake is because social value cannot fully be
harmonized to "individual worth" (intellectual value). This
again because the social level is more fundamental than
the intellectual one and will always appear as alien
to the latter. <br> Well then, what does the quality
idea have to say about the actual issue? Is it good or
bad? One moment please. First of all the MOQ
introduces value as the ground-stuff of existence and that
"good" is the - at any time - uppermost level which is
to say that nothing is outright bad, but that the
next lower level will be regarded as such by the
upper. So if the present "individual right" is
identified as (one of the chief patterns of) MoQ's
Intellectual level and the "anti-individual forces" (for lack
of better) is MoQ's Social level, the picture
becomes clearer. As each level is the "parent" to the one
above, we also see that individual value
(Intellect)can't act the cuckoo that pushes the other out of the
nest. IMO this removes the fear that this (self-chosen
death) means means a slippery-slope back to barbarism.
<br> One last round? The individual as equal to
"intellectual value" sounds a bit strange, but that's because
in the subject-object universe a human being is a
biological organism endowed with consciousness and free will
- "mind" for short - in contrast to other organisms
not so well-equipped. This sounds like a noble view
at first, but it soon reveals ugly sides, the one in
question here is that a demented person is removed from
the mind realm and reduced to animal - or vegetable -
status. In the MOQ however, there is no such matter/mind
chasm and no individual rise or fall from grace. Value
is Reality and the Intellectual level is the human
realm, be the individual ever so "reduced". <br> Thus
the accusation of it being some undercover return of
nazism/racism (with its recognition of the collective (social
value) misses the point completely, but many critics of
Pirsig's "LILA" centred on this aspect. Thanks for
reading<br>Bo




Fri Apr 27, 2001 7:56 pm

bo34no
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Message #35 of 88 |
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Hi Sara and Geoff and all.<br>Thanks for the response. My messages aren't much of a dialogue rather like a Moses down from the mountain so I understand that ...
bo34no
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Apr 27, 2001
7:54 pm

(continued)<br>The rise of the euthanasia question I see as a manifestation of the collective (social) value and the uncanny feeling we experience in its wake...
bo34no
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Apr 27, 2001
7:56 pm

Yes, it seems I am reading ZMM again. <br>I think I missed out a whole lot things the first way through and I am now to years older.<br>So I'll give it another...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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May 3, 2001
10:45 am

Not that it's going to change anything, but were Chris Pirsig's killers ever "brought to justice"? I've not been able to find anything about that on the...
yah_me
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May 5, 2001
8:32 pm

Geoff said:<br><br>&gt;Bo, I find how you said that society and &gt;technology has advanced interesting. <br>&gt;Vegetable-like Humans without the technoloy...
bo34no
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May 7, 2001
5:49 am

A brief, first reply to your interesting, but confusing mail! Call me thick, but I found it difficult to follow your point! A few initial points and ...
caledonia1963
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May 8, 2001
10:41 am

Halooo...<br>Is there anybody out there?<br>Was it something I wrote, or is it holiday time for everyone?<br>Has noone anything to say or discuss about ...
caledonia1963
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May 17, 2001
11:04 am

Sorry for not posting lately.<br><br>The reason is that I have exams approaching next week so I have been hard at study.<br><br>After next week and a bit, I...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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May 18, 2001
6:01 am

Hi Pirsig Club.<br>We suddenly got relatives visiting from the USA and I had to act the host, but now things are back to normal.<br><br>For Geoff.<br>Stay with...
bo34no
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May 18, 2001
9:23 am

GOOOD LUCK with your studies Geoff - what's your subject(s)?<br>You didn't mention how you got on with ZMM the 2nd time around - any flashy, quick comments in...
caledonia1963
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May 18, 2001
5:48 pm

Hi KA<br>You did not get any response to your question about the murder of Chris Pirsig, but I'm afraid that I have no new information on the matter other than...
bo34no
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May 23, 2001
6:59 am

Update,<br><br>I have now completed 2 of my 5 exams.<br>English and Economics have been completed,<br>Accounting, Math with Stats and Classical Studies ...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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May 25, 2001
11:41 pm

Pirsig fans.<br>Internet discussions seem to have only two modes: full ahead and dead stop. I participate in another site (Colin Wilson) which is overflowing...
bo34no
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May 31, 2001
6:57 pm

HI Bo and all (all 2 of us regulars!!??? say something, anything , someone else, PLEASE!!!)<br><br>Im back from a sailing week (as mate, and singing ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 1, 2001
11:27 am

Hi Bo, Sara & all,<br><br>I agree that Pirsig needs a popularizer. The brutal volume of advertising that hits people every day makes it difficult for them to...
joao_csilva
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Jun 1, 2001
5:27 pm

Hallo Joao<br>Nice to here another voice here - where are you writing from - Brazil? <br>(I have a fascination with Bahia as I co-own a saveiro buiklt in ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 2, 2001
10:22 am

Hello Sara, Bo, Joao & all,<br><br>I’ve been keeping away from potential discussions, as I really need to reread both Lila and ZMM. <br><br>Sara, I like ...
discoverylover
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Jun 2, 2001
3:23 pm

Joao and Club.<br>I thought we had met before - at the Lila Squad perhaps - but see that you are a Wilson club member too. OK that's fine, you'll perhaps have...
bo34no
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Jun 3, 2001
8:21 am

I think a popularizer of Pirsig are in fact his many readers. My brother's friend recommended that I read 'ZMM'. This 'word of mouth' allowed me to discover...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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Jun 3, 2001
8:27 am

Yes Geoff, and what I was trying to add in my mailings was that, it is by being affected by Pirsig and seeing how quality can be achieved in every day in our ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 3, 2001
11:43 am

Bo, I find what you wrote interesting; I’m waiting for a continuation....
discoverylover
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Jun 3, 2001
12:22 pm

                            ...
joao_csilva
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Jun 3, 2001
4:13 pm

Hallo Clubbers... & Wow Joao!<br>A lot of words, and ethusiasm, and desperation about the state of the world - but I'm not clear about your message or question...
caledonia1963
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Jun 4, 2001
8:53 am

Hi Bo<br>My version of ZMM did not have the afterword you mention here. I am curious, perhaps rather sensationally, and I know I should really concentrate on...
caledonia1963
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Jun 4, 2001
9:10 am

For Diana: <br>As said I launched this my "change-over-time" idea at another site but was informed that a science-writer, Robert A. Wilson, had anticipated it...
bo34no
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Jun 5, 2001
7:31 am

Hi Sara,<br>You can find the afterword here:<br><a href=http://www.virtualschool.edu/mon/Quality/PirsigZen/afterword.html...
joao_csilva
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Jun 5, 2001
3:38 pm

Hey Jaoa<br>I checked out the Tao of Poo site a coupkle of days ago. Very sweet! I still have fond memories or being read Poo as a child in Scotland. ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 8, 2001
10:11 am

Thanks for this Jaoa...<br>I found it deeply sad, but beautifully written piece.<br>COndolences to him and all who have suffered the loss of a close loved ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 10, 2001
7:50 am

Sara, I think I understand what you are saying about pain. It seems to me that pain helps me ‘unlock’ myself; it opens a kind of sensitivity in me....
discoverylover
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Jun 10, 2001
10:25 pm

Hi all!<br>Diana - yes, I like your description about how pain helps us. I too am rather vague about the process, as this is the first time in my life I am...
caledonia1963
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Jun 12, 2001
7:55 am
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