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Robert Pirsig   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #39 of 88 |
Re: Comments on comments

A brief, first reply to your interesting, but
confusing mail! Call me thick, but I found it difficult to
follow your point! A few initial points and
questions:<br>For me, the <br>&lt;&lt;moral right AGAINST the use
capital of punishment&gt;&gt; Is comparible to euthanasia
or 'death pill' as an example of the willful taking
of life outside of absolute necessity (because no
one is threatened by a prisoner, and there may be a
medical cure or miracle to save a
patient).<br><br>Society condoning death outside of necessity is a tricky
reality to maintain, to say the least. Where would it
end/// how to control?? Or must I stop looking from the
society viewpoint all together?<br><br>I guess it is more
useful to look from the individual level. If society
grants the individual supreme rights over their bodies,
(as they should, I think) it should not be illegal to
commit suicide, for any reason. But society cannot be
expected to provide the 'death pill' for an unhappy
teenager or depressed housewife in a mid-life crisis (like
myuself!). Or should it? My man thinks (unconventionally)
that society should, as it is the individual's right
to decide.<br>-------------------------<br>Anyway,
what do you mean by "life's testament", and what is
the &lt;&lt;heroic act&gt;&gt;? Sounds like I need to
do/make it too!<br>-----------------------<br>Funnily
enough, I meant the 'natural' idea the other way, ie:
everything can be seen as "natural" on a wide level, and so
it is not a good measure to decide whether an act is
natural or innatural! This positive or negative result
doesn't matter, as the conclusion is the same!<br><br>You
said &lt;&lt;the notion of truth is THE major
Intellectual pattern - Q-intellect that is, in the
subject/object world one is forced to alternate between
subjective (beliefs) and objective (knowledge) and both
leads into blind alleys.&gt;&gt;<br><br>I think I am
missing the point rather here! And I think it is a
central one! Can you expand on this difficult subject of
TRUTH and its relation to the 'intellectual level' a
bit? Do you mean that TRUTH exists as the highest
value (Q) in intellectual terms? Perhaps I am still
thinking is Subject /Object terms too much to grasp these
points fully?<br>-------------------<br>Interesting as
our human myths and legends are (I include the bible,
as well as the more distant Norse or Scot or Red
Indian, and the more recent Comic Books and feature
films) I was trying to talk about a notion of the
absalute 'quality' that I see as being above or beyond
finite nate of a 'will' or a particular 'god' or
'truth'. WHich is why I said<br>&lt;&lt;I dont see this
universal concept as attributed with answers for precise
human quandries.&gt;&gt;<br>Put more positively, the
'quality' response should be soulght at all times to all
questions, but we have to find the answers with our own
fallible, individual wee
selves!<br>-------------------<br>Hope this is a bit clearer. <br>Language is
such a
slippery thing! <br><br>GOOD thoughts to all Pirsig fans,
<br>from Sara




Tue May 8, 2001 10:41 am

caledonia1963
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Forward
Message #39 of 88 |
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Geoff said:<br><br>&gt;Bo, I find how you said that society and &gt;technology has advanced interesting. <br>&gt;Vegetable-like Humans without the technoloy...
bo34no
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May 7, 2001
5:49 am

A brief, first reply to your interesting, but confusing mail! Call me thick, but I found it difficult to follow your point! A few initial points and ...
caledonia1963
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May 8, 2001
10:41 am

Halooo...<br>Is there anybody out there?<br>Was it something I wrote, or is it holiday time for everyone?<br>Has noone anything to say or discuss about ...
caledonia1963
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May 17, 2001
11:04 am

Sorry for not posting lately.<br><br>The reason is that I have exams approaching next week so I have been hard at study.<br><br>After next week and a bit, I...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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May 18, 2001
6:01 am

Hi Pirsig Club.<br>We suddenly got relatives visiting from the USA and I had to act the host, but now things are back to normal.<br><br>For Geoff.<br>Stay with...
bo34no
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May 18, 2001
9:23 am

GOOOD LUCK with your studies Geoff - what's your subject(s)?<br>You didn't mention how you got on with ZMM the 2nd time around - any flashy, quick comments in...
caledonia1963
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May 18, 2001
5:48 pm

Hi KA<br>You did not get any response to your question about the murder of Chris Pirsig, but I'm afraid that I have no new information on the matter other than...
bo34no
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May 23, 2001
6:59 am

Update,<br><br>I have now completed 2 of my 5 exams.<br>English and Economics have been completed,<br>Accounting, Math with Stats and Classical Studies ...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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May 25, 2001
11:41 pm

Pirsig fans.<br>Internet discussions seem to have only two modes: full ahead and dead stop. I participate in another site (Colin Wilson) which is overflowing...
bo34no
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May 31, 2001
6:57 pm

HI Bo and all (all 2 of us regulars!!??? say something, anything , someone else, PLEASE!!!)<br><br>Im back from a sailing week (as mate, and singing ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 1, 2001
11:27 am

Hi Bo, Sara & all,<br><br>I agree that Pirsig needs a popularizer. The brutal volume of advertising that hits people every day makes it difficult for them to...
joao_csilva
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Jun 1, 2001
5:27 pm

Hallo Joao<br>Nice to here another voice here - where are you writing from - Brazil? <br>(I have a fascination with Bahia as I co-own a saveiro buiklt in ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 2, 2001
10:22 am

Hello Sara, Bo, Joao & all,<br><br>I’ve been keeping away from potential discussions, as I really need to reread both Lila and ZMM. <br><br>Sara, I like ...
discoverylover
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Jun 2, 2001
3:23 pm

Joao and Club.<br>I thought we had met before - at the Lila Squad perhaps - but see that you are a Wilson club member too. OK that's fine, you'll perhaps have...
bo34no
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Jun 3, 2001
8:21 am

I think a popularizer of Pirsig are in fact his many readers. My brother's friend recommended that I read 'ZMM'. This 'word of mouth' allowed me to discover...
enlightenedphilosopher
enlightenedp...
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Jun 3, 2001
8:27 am

Yes Geoff, and what I was trying to add in my mailings was that, it is by being affected by Pirsig and seeing how quality can be achieved in every day in our ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 3, 2001
11:43 am

Bo, I find what you wrote interesting; I’m waiting for a continuation....
discoverylover
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Jun 3, 2001
12:22 pm

                            ...
joao_csilva
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Jun 3, 2001
4:13 pm

Hallo Clubbers... & Wow Joao!<br>A lot of words, and ethusiasm, and desperation about the state of the world - but I'm not clear about your message or question...
caledonia1963
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Jun 4, 2001
8:53 am

Hi Bo<br>My version of ZMM did not have the afterword you mention here. I am curious, perhaps rather sensationally, and I know I should really concentrate on...
caledonia1963
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Jun 4, 2001
9:10 am

For Diana: <br>As said I launched this my "change-over-time" idea at another site but was informed that a science-writer, Robert A. Wilson, had anticipated it...
bo34no
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Jun 5, 2001
7:31 am

Hi Sara,<br>You can find the afterword here:<br><a href=http://www.virtualschool.edu/mon/Quality/PirsigZen/afterword.html...
joao_csilva
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Jun 5, 2001
3:38 pm

Hey Jaoa<br>I checked out the Tao of Poo site a coupkle of days ago. Very sweet! I still have fond memories or being read Poo as a child in Scotland. ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 8, 2001
10:11 am

Thanks for this Jaoa...<br>I found it deeply sad, but beautifully written piece.<br>COndolences to him and all who have suffered the loss of a close loved ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 10, 2001
7:50 am

Sara, I think I understand what you are saying about pain. It seems to me that pain helps me ‘unlock’ myself; it opens a kind of sensitivity in me....
discoverylover
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Jun 10, 2001
10:25 pm

Hi all!<br>Diana - yes, I like your description about how pain helps us. I too am rather vague about the process, as this is the first time in my life I am...
caledonia1963
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Jun 12, 2001
7:55 am

Hi Sara and Pirsig readers.<br>This small "club" is such an relaxing place compared to the bedlam of the Lila Squad and I should beware of introducing any ...
bo34no
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Jun 13, 2001
7:46 am

OK it may be relaxed here Bo, but i dont mind a bit of controversy to stir the cobwebs in my brain!<br>What is the particular shocker you were aluding to in ...
caledonia1963
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Jun 15, 2001
8:53 am

Hi all! <br><br>May I come in? <br><br>I'm glad to enter this small club. I'd say it's relaxing, as I'm used to the crowded *agora* of MD and MF. Someone of...
deadlytoy
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Jun 22, 2001
6:00 pm

Hi "deadlytoy" and Club.<br>Quite a password you have chosen for yourself Marco, but warmly welcome to this recreation home for us wounded on the battlefields...
bo34no
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Jun 23, 2001
4:57 pm
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