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Robert Pirsig   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #74 of 88 |
Language , Time + Quality

I'm glad to be chatting again!<br>What were the
'consequent' pages you were reading Geoff? - Do let us know
how your reading makes sense to you,
personally.<br>Bo:I understand your view of language as "a leap from
one reality into another" and see the communication
of abstract ideas through language of key importance
in human evolution from the day-to-day, instinctual
living of animals to being more conscious beings capable
of seeing their actions and lives outside their
immediate physical surroundings.<br>Its hard to know what
started first, and I imagine a sort of gradual refinement
anyway - from living with and being aware of seasons and
the cycles of life and death and rejuvenation in
plants and animals through refining human grunts to
represent the abstract thoughts of life and death to form
the abstract concept and mental models.<br>You said
"Language is intangible, yet more real than the real thing
and when it entered existence* "death" became a
reality and the human beings started burial ceremonies* -
remember the RITUAL chapter in Lila!"<br>**Do give
details; and please remind me which is the 'ritual'
chapter in Lila, and how you see it relating to
Death.<br>Fascinating stuff! - It comes as no surprise that traces of
language and death artefacts are found at the same time.
The abstract notion of TIME is only accessible
through utilising language, and this central concept
gives reality to the notions of past, present and
future which in turn make DEATH an important event.Yes
humans were also immortal once, like animals still are
today! (as you rightly commented). We 'descended from
the garden of eden' (and paradise?) once the idea of
linear time took hold in human culture. With the concept
of one-directional, not cyclical reality, events
were assembled into a finite chain, called THE PAST.
For example, through story telling of mothers' and
fathers' lives, linking a person through generations
backwards, putting the individual in a fixed place in the
chain of time, rather than being an unconscious part of
'the great wheel' of life where each life is just part
of the great, repeating round of existence. Tracking
a 'history' through recounting the names and events
of ancestors' lives meant each individual's life
could hold special meaning, and we can imagine that
those who lived special lives, would be marked with
burial ceremonies accordingly.




Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:01 am

caledonia63
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Message #74 of 88 |
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Hello, I’m here too. In the last three days I read some consequent parts of Lila. I found some similar points with phenomenology. Phenomenology is a ...
discoverylover
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Jul 18, 2001
1:25 am

I'm glad to be chatting again!<br>What were the 'consequent' pages you were reading Geoff? - Do let us know how your reading makes sense to you, ...
caledonia63
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Jul 20, 2001
10:01 am

I have a fascination with the tacky, kitsch, souvenirs we human collect from holidays and trips in an attempt to fix those events in our minds through looking ...
caledonia63
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Jul 20, 2001
10:06 am

Nowadays people prefer to live on the move: they want to travel, to explore new places. They want more freedom, more options in life. <br><br>Is this an...
discoverylover
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Jul 24, 2001
11:49 pm

Dear Discoverylover, Sara and all.<br><br>Disco. wrote in a previous message):<br>&gt; Hello, I’m here too. In the last three days I read some ...
bo34no
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Jul 25, 2001
7:18 am

Bo: &lt;&lt; is that Husserl or Heidegger or ..? &gt;&gt;<br><br>Yes, exactly. I’m not too much familiar with it myself. But it seems to me that they...
discoverylover
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Jul 27, 2001
7:13 am

Hi Club! <br><br>Here again, sorry if I can stumble across this place just once a month... anyway, I've seen very good posts, so maybe you don't need me ... ...
deadlytoy
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Jul 28, 2001
9:33 am

.... PART II<br><br>** Language, Rituals and the MOQ **<br><br>How many time did we discuss language Bo? Dozens? Hundreds? Well, we used to agree, but lately...
deadlytoy
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Jul 28, 2001
9:37 am

(I had to post this separately for the lencth of the previous message)<br><br><br>Diana:<br>Nowadays people prefer to live on the move: they want to travel, to...
deadlytoy
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Jul 28, 2001
9:40 am

Sara wrote:<br>&gt; The books are monuments to the beautiful<br>&gt; search for higher meaning in life, beyond earthly successes, and try<br>&gt; to form a...
bo34no
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Aug 1, 2001
7:29 pm

Bo <br>I was first annoyed, then disappointed and finally slightly cynically amused inreaction to your previous comment:<br><br>"I am a bit reluctant to speak ...
caledonia63
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Aug 8, 2001
10:19 am

Sara and All.<br>God, this is the misunderstanding of the year, but entirely my fault. The <br>opening paragraph was meant to be slightly ironic ....we are...
bo34no
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Aug 12, 2001
5:38 am

What a relief Bo!<br>I may be prone to negative, paranoid thinking, but I really didn't guess your cinicism in that paragraph. Context context...<br>I have...
caledonia63
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Aug 12, 2001
3:41 pm

HI All, especially those I talked to earlier this year. <br>We all been doing other things, and this site remains as a graveyard in the memory of ...
caledonia63
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Oct 2, 2001
11:41 am

Dear Sara and Club<br>you wrote:<br>&gt; HI All, especially those I talked to earlier this year. <br>&gt; We all been doing other things, and this site remains...
bo34no
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Oct 25, 2001
9:20 am

Dear Sara! <br>I come from Slovenia and I like philosophy. Currently I was reading Pirsig's book Zen and the Art of the motorcycle maintenance and I kind of ...
ana_aditas
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Nov 28, 2001
6:42 pm
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