Hey all. I"m looking for a little advice for how to handle big nemsis
fights with my PC's all in a group. I'm not sure how to keep the fight
going long enough to involve everyone... Either I give the nemsis a
HUGE amount of Chi, or I work out some way that the nemsis fights each
of the PC's at the same time with the same amount of chi... I'm really
not sure. What's folks experience with this? Ideas? Opinions?

--- In wushurpg@..., Christopher Fletcher
<gwyddion0@y...> wrote:

> Sorry for all the snippage but it helps to focus my
> suggestion... perhaps a "corruption" element, might
> actually be brought into play. Really it depends on
> the design of the game; by which I mean, what is Cyber
> Fu being written for?

It's a good question - I was trying not to set parameters too much -I
wanted to encourage members to throw in ideas and let the core
elements of CyberFu emerge from the discussion.

Here's my take on corruption - in StarWars it works great. The
universe tends to become a dichotomy between light and dark. Anybody
in the middle is being pulled towards one end or the other, so
corruption is a great measure of the fall from light to dark. My
feeling is that it might not wotrk for a Cyberfu world where most of
the characters are going to be various shades of grey.

The fixer might protect his business with absolute ruthlessness, but
might also be a protector of his neighbourhood's children. The
assassin might be a killer purely so that he can get enough money
fast enough to pay for an urgent operation to save his beloved wife.
The corporate executive might be the kindest person alive within her
enclave, but see the unwashed masses outside as something to be
feared and dealt with harshly. The revolutionary might be fighting
for the underprivileged, but have no qualms anout using terrorist
tactics to accomplish those goals. Its a dark world, and its people
are struggling to find whatever light they can within it, If that
means working for a corporation, or trying to bring it down, being a
criminal who preys on the people or a local hero trying to protect
them, or just trying to survive day to day, than so be it. Players
might be corrupt, or they might be untouchable, but either way, I
don't think that corruption is a measure that has meaning outside the
player character's own goals, beliefs and responses to circumstances.

This comes back to what I was saying about a chosen profession partly
defing what the character is about, and a stated belief perhaps
refing it further. Someone who declares that they are an assassin is
probably going to see things in a different way to a Doctor. It
implies things about them. Now give them a belief: The assassin might
believe in only killing within the context of a paid contract - never
for pleasure, and might therefor take exception to another PC killing
indiscriminately. The Doctor might be a typical noble type, or he
might believe that illegal cyberware implantation is perfectly
alright as long as it can be paid for....
>
> If it's an excuse to kill things and take their stuff
> (like Shadowrun, D&D, and so forth) then it's not very
> appropriate. On the other hand, if it is more of an
> exploration of a person's role in society and how they
> work within and outside of their society, what that
> role(or roles) looks like, and so forth... then it
> might fit.

I think to a certain extant it can be worked both ways. One of the
major factors in a cyberpunk setting is inequitable access to
resources - power, food, shelter, safety, money and all those other
things that Maslow might talk about. If you are living in the slums
with minimum wage, barely enough to eat and a leaky roof over your
head, then you might well be tempted to kill things and take their
stuff. For me that might be part of that exploration of a person's
place in society - what are you willing to do on order to survive?
How much will you value your needs over somebody else's when there
isn't enough to go round? Are you just trying to survive, or do you
want to change your place in society, orbetter yet change the nature
of the society? All good questions. It is probable that most PCs will
prefer to be pretty well set up, but even then, they have to deal
with how they react to the inequities they see.
>
> Why? Well, as I pointed out in Shadowrun, Corporations
> are hiring Shadowrunners to buck the system. Or to put
> it another way, "The Man is paying you to screw with
> The Man". That's kinda screwy logic. Sure,
> Shadowrunners might thing "This is a hoot, we're
> screwing the system and it's _paying_ us to do so",
> and the Johnson is thinking "Chuckle all you want,
> you're no more a rebel or threat against the system
> than the suit that drive to work everyday. You just
> happen to have a different office and dress code".
> Who's right? Well, if it's an important question,
> Baileywolf's corruption mechanics for the Dark Side
> might help to answer that question.

I see what you're getting at, but I still think that a straight
corruption mechanic misses the greyness of the setting. It would
possible work fine for a character who is trying to be untouchable
but not so good for someone who starts off corrupt and has no
intention of change. I really don't want to force players into
adopting a moral or ethical code that may not be suitable to their
character type or circumstance. That's why I was suggesting stating a
belief - it gives both player and GM a declaration of what matters to
that PC and therefore what kinds of stories you might tell. An
Assassin that believes children should never be killed could be faced
with a situation where taking out the target might also take out
innocent children. Such a story would be meaningless to an Assassin
that doesn't care about collateral damage.
>
> I'd argue that original cyberpunk stuff was a cool
> setting and kick ass stuff, clearly. And yet there was
> also an exploration of what it might be like to live
> in a world that took the excesses of it's time to a
> "logical" conclusion. So what's society look like when
> people do exist exclusively to satisfy their own
> greed, when they'll hire themselves out to the highest
> bidder, and when corporations are openly more powerful
> than nations.

Agreed, except that it isn't always about greed. It might just be
survival, a personal code of honour, or idealism that motivates a PC.
>
> Form follows function, and rules help reinforce play.
> Cyber gear isn't given any mechanical advantage,
> because Wushu and Cyber Fu isn't about task resolution
> and micro-managing bonuses for an unimportant/minor
> aspect of play. Groovy. What's CyberFu about?

Good question...

Escherwolf

--- John McDonald <mac3141@...> wrote:
<snip of my earlier post>

> I think this will be partially defined by what
> characters choose to be. If they choose to be a    >
gangbanger, corporate soldier, street
> samurai for hire or a besieged underfunded cop, it
> will to a large extent set them a place in the     >
world.

<snip some bits>

> Unlike BW I wasn't going to
> link any specific game mechanic to it - it's just
> there to help the player focus on the character's  >
core belief.

Sorry for all the snippage but it helps to focus my
suggestion... perhaps a "corruption" element, might
actually be brought into play. Really it depends on
the design of the game; by which I mean, what is Cyber
Fu being written for?

If it's an excuse to kill things and take their stuff
(like Shadowrun, D&D, and so forth) then it's not very
appropriate. On the other hand, if it is more of an
exploration of a person's role in society and how they
work within and outside of their society, what that
role(or roles) looks like, and so forth... then it
might fit.

Why? Well, as I pointed out in Shadowrun, Corporations
are hiring Shadowrunners to buck the system. Or to put
it another way, "The Man is paying you to screw with
The Man". That's kinda screwy logic. Sure,
Shadowrunners might thing "This is a hoot, we're
screwing the system and it's _paying_ us to do so",
and the Johnson is thinking "Chuckle all you want,
you're no more a rebel or threat against the system
than the suit that drive to work everyday. You just
happen to have a different office and dress code".
Who's right? Well, if it's an important question,
Baileywolf's corruption mechanics for the Dark Side
might help to answer that question.

I'd argue that original cyberpunk stuff was a cool
setting and kick ass stuff, clearly. And yet there was
also an exploration of what it might be like to live
in a world that took the excesses of it's time to a
"logical" conclusion. So what's society look like when
people do exist exclusively to satisfy their own
greed, when they'll hire themselves out to the highest
bidder, and when corporations are openly more powerful
than nations.

Form follows function, and rules help reinforce play.
Cyber gear isn't given any mechanical advantage,
because Wushu and Cyber Fu isn't about task resolution
and micro-managing bonuses for an unimportant/minor
aspect of play. Groovy. What's CyberFu about?



__________________________________
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http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

--- In wushurpg@..., Christopher Fletcher
<gwyddion0@y...> wrote:
> I'd say another theme (maybe it's been explicitly
> stated, and I just missed it) is not just that there's
> been a social breakdown, but how the character(s) are
> responding to it. By which I mean, the characters are
> shown as proactively trying to make a difference. That
> difference might be to improve their lot in life, it
> might be setting an example of rebellion for others to
> be inspired by, it might be a simple and continous act
> of non-conformity. Rebellion being defined as an
> active act against some part of the "system", as
> compared to a passive act of non-conformity.
>
> One of the major themes is the rejection of the
> established order. Hence in the 80's when you have the
> look of the young cleancut corporate type intent on
> earning as much money as quick as possible, punks went
> for the loud and extreme look. They had little
> interest in money etc.
>
I think this will be partially defined by what characters choose to
be. If they choose to be a gangbanger, corporate soldier, street
samurai for hire or a besieged underfunded cop, it will to a large
extent set them a place in the world.

I'm going to suggest that we do a filch from burning wheel - on the
character sheet will be a line (optional) in which you can state a
character's belief as a single statement. Unlike BW I wasn't going to
link any specific game mechanic to it - it's just there to help the
player focus on the character's core belief. It is possible that a GM
might optionally recognise superior roleplaying of a belief with an
extra die or two at a dramatically appropriate moment, but I don't
think its necessary. It does tend to help focus on what the character
is about, and to give the GM hooks on what that character might care
about.

Possible example statements: "The innocent must be protected at all
costs"; "Killin is an artform"; "The corporations are corrupt and
must be toppled"; "Down these mean streets must walk a man who is not
himself mean" (thanks RC); "The only people who give a damn about me
are my fellow gangbangers - I must give them total loyalty"; "I'd
rather be a predator than a victim"; "I must protect my corporate
clients from the unwashed hordes".

Escherwolf

Ok let's break this up into some of the things we need to get this
thing sorted.

We need to have some character archetypes. If you want to write up a
character archetype or two (or more) then please use the format that
Dan uses in his Wire-Fu and Pulp-Fu. For those that aren't familiar
with it, it goes like this:

Archetype Name.

Two paragraphs describing what the character is all about.

A list of typical traits for this character type (usually four, but
we won't complain if you add a couple more as options) with line
explaining each trait.

That's it! Easy... Submit to the list and you're set to go.

Mext thing - opponents. Who are the bad guys here anyway? Simple to
do as well: list the opponent's name (or group name if they are
mooks), list their traits (Three or four should do) and write a
paragraph about what they're all about. Submit to the list, and
you're ready to go.

That's it for now. Still want to hear about ideas for tropes and
setting details, and later we'll talk about writing up some examples
of cyberfu action.

Remember the idea is to assemble this into both a PDF for download
from here and and also add it to Emprint's most excellant Wiki so
that all Wushu fans get the benefit - all those who contribute get a
credit.

Be seeing you...

Escherwolf

--- In wushurpg@..., "reverendbayn" <dan@b...> wrote:
{Good advice deleted - refer to original post for full details}

> Having said all that, I do think players should choose their excuse
to kick ass before the
> game starts, even if they're improvising the specifics during play.
For instance, it may
> become important to know whether or not out sharpshooter has cyber-
eyes if the GM
> wants to use a Nemesis who can hack people's implants. All I'm
sayin' is that you don't
> need a Trait for your cyber.
>
> --Dan

Point well taken. We won't specify cyberware as a trait. When we do a
character sheet, we should probably include somewhere where they can
write down cyberware for consistency, though it need not be specified
at the beginning - though anything visual that would be immediately
noticed about the character probably should be loosely described.

Cyber-fu is definately the name to use when we put it all together -
Wushu Punk was simply the topic header we started with. The next post
I make will be under the Cyber-fu heading.

Escherwolf

In Wire-Fu, I wrote a bit about how every PC needed an excuse to kick ass, some
source of
wire-fu mojo that explained why they can leap across rooftops, through people
through
walls, and take massive punishment without breaking a sweat. However, there's no
need to
create a separate Trait for it _if_ you're always gonna use it for combat. Just
know where
your character's power comes from & use that Combat Trait for all your dice
rolling needs.

I think you can apply the same reasoning to cybertech & netrunning tech.
Characters
should have Traits that reflect _what_ they can do, not necessarily _how_ they
do them.
For example, my street sam needs a combat Trait like Kendo, Street Sam, or
Cuttin' Up
Punks. It doesn't really matter if they've got wired reflexes, cybernetic limbs,
a nano-
edged katana, or  cerebral computer with combat skill software. Of course, they
can feel
free to make those things up & use them as Details, but they don't need to be on
the
character sheet.

The same goes for your hacker types. They should have Traits like Hacking, Net
Ninja,
Virtual Virtuoso, Investigator, Cybercrime, etc. During play, they should
improvise Details
about their software, their deck, their implants, their avatar... anything that
adds to the
delicious cyberpunk flavor of your game. Then, they roll those dice against
their general
hacking Trait.

Now, here's where it gets interesting. Say you've got a corporate spy who's got
Traits like
Sharpshooter, Eagle Eye, & Master Manipulator. On the one hand, he could get his
mojo
from advanced technology: cerebral targeting systems, smartguns, pheremones,
cyber-
eyes, etc. However, he could also be highly trained: years of military
experience, covert
ops training, raised by a con artist, corporate contacts, law enforcement
authority, and so
forth. They all feed into the same actions, and therefore the same Traits, just
the Details
differ.

Having said all that, I do think players should choose their excuse to kick ass
before the
game starts, even if they're improvising the specifics during play. For
instance, it may
become important to know whether or not out sharpshooter has cyber-eyes if the
GM
wants to use a Nemesis who can hack people's implants. All I'm sayin' is that
you don't
need a Trait for your cyber.

--Dan

> Shadowrun was a bit of an interesting shift in the
> cyberpunk genre, because on the one hand the
> characters are working against the system, and yet
> they're frequently employed _by_ that same system. You
> had an element of that in the original Cyberpunk, but
> not to the same degree as you do/did in Shadowrun.
>
>

Yeah, i was about to say something like that. I was doing some
research some months ago for some works for univesity about science
fiction all, and actually found interesting that, when you take a
look on how things work for guys inside cyberpunk-themed "worlds",
what was supposed to be a distopic view of the future and up being
kinda utopic, 'cos no matter how huge is the social breakdown, the
main characters usually manage to somehow merge with it, living like
it's no big deal - hence stories that, even though shows a harsh
worlds with poverty, violence, no loayalty and stuff, the main
character always end with some ironic phrase like "I love this job!"
or "That's my life. Might not be a great one, but it pays the
bills.", or stuff like that. The feel of a social breakdown usually
comes with the anacronysm of when we think in our own time's terms
of society.

But i might not be getting the whole picture of the genre, actually,
since cyberpunk literature isn't exactly a common thing here in
Brazil, and most things i know about it comes from RPG games
released here, like Cyberpunk 2020 and Shadowrun - including those
images that are basically what i, in a very superficial way, define
as "cyberpunk", that is, street samurais (usually more machine than
man, or at least almost more machine than man...) and netrunners.

I'd say another theme (maybe it's been explicitly
stated, and I just missed it) is not just that there's
been a social breakdown, but how the character(s) are
responding to it. By which I mean, the characters are
shown as proactively trying to make a difference. That
difference might be to improve their lot in life, it
might be setting an example of rebellion for others to
be inspired by, it might be a simple and continous act
of non-conformity. Rebellion being defined as an
active act against some part of the "system", as
compared to a passive act of non-conformity.

One of the major themes is the rejection of the
established order. Hence in the 80's when you have the
look of the young cleancut corporate type intent on
earning as much money as quick as possible, punks went
for the loud and extreme look. They had little
interest in money etc.

Shadowrun was a bit of an interesting shift in the
cyberpunk genre, because on the one hand the
characters are working against the system, and yet
they're frequently employed _by_ that same system. You
had an element of that in the original Cyberpunk, but
not to the same degree as you do/did in Shadowrun.



__________________________________
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--- In wushurpg@..., "Bruno" <bbelloc@h...> wrote:
>
> It's called Tormenta, in case you wanna search about it...
>
I'll do that...
>
> Those are interesting ideas. I really don't see much complications
> to it - i mean, in a wide open gaming style like Wushu gives, all
> you need is a Trait that says "you can do it", and then put all the
> details in the description of the actions... Right?
>
Absolutely, essentially they can just do it. The reason I'm trying to
define some traits is more to help the players keep the magic
abilities true to the setting. I don't want them to think in terms of
a D&D spell list. I do want to encourage the kinds of things you see
either in the Arabian Knights or other Arab folktales. Shapechanging
battles and calling on Djinn are more likely than using many of the
more medieval styled spells found in most games. It is really just me
guiding the players to the tropes of Arabian Knights magic.
>

> Well, maybe you'll do. It all depends on my social skills to
> convince my group to play this Wushu campaing...
>
Take a cue from Scherazade - don't try to rope them into an ongoing
campaign - just offer to run a one off for them - just be sure to end
on a cliffhanger so that they have to come back to finish it. Never
have a story finish on the night without starting another one - give
them a reason to continue just to see how it turns out. Eventually
you may get to 1001 nights of Wushu... ;)

Just get them to agree to one session of it initially - its the thin
edge of the wedge.
>
Escherwolf

--- In wushurpg@..., Martin Hall <redwulf25_ci@y...>
wrote:
>
> Esentialy Cyberpunk is Film Noir done sci-fi.  The
> definition I tend to use is:  (lifted from
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk) "Cyberpunk (a
> portmanteau of cybernetics and punk) is a genre of
> science fiction that focuses on computers or
> information technology, usually coupled with some
> degree of breakdown in social order. The plot of
> cyberpunk writing often centers on a conflict among
> hackers, artificial intelligences, and mega
> corporations, tending to be set within a near-future
> dystopian Earth, rather than the "outer space" locales
> prevalent at the time of cyberpunk's inception. Much
> of the genre's "atmosphere" echoes film noir, and
> written works in the genre often use techniques from
> detective fiction."
>
Cool. Key words for me are urban, dystopian, noirish, near future,
corporate, information technology driven, socially broken. Huge
divide between elites and the street. Life is cheap, and problems are
often solved by violence. I have a few ideas already...many of which
centre on resources - who has them, who can access them, how do those
that don't get them react...

> As for charicters I expect Hackers, ex-soldiers
> cybered to the gills and hiring out as mercs, smooth
> black marketeers, "doctors" (sometimes med school
> dropouts, or if you're realy lucky an honest to gods
> fully trained vetrinarian) operating with minimal or
> no licensing and supervision to install cybernetics
> and wierd bio-ware, PI's, and just about any other
> charicter you've seen in a cyberpunk novel, movie, or
> comic.

Street Samurai was always a powerul image for me. All the above are
great. I'd add in those that control or manipulate media -
communication and mass influence are important parts of controlling
an unfair society. Investigators of every stripe, well equipped
corporate cops, and underequipped and somewhat desperate street cops.
Throw in a variety of street level cults promising all things to the
downtrodden, and would be revolutionaries doing much the same.
Government pretty much a facade - corporations run the show.

All in all, very cool. Is there anything that's been missed or that
you'd like to see in this kind of a setting? I'm going to let it sit
for a little while to give others a chance to throw in ideas, then we
might move on to more detailed topics (such as social structure, law,
politics and technology).

Escherwolf

Hi again!


> >
> A brazilian Medieval setting? That'd be new territory for me to
> explore...Any chance of a blurb on it?

Well, actually, it isn't that much different than your everyday D&D
setting like Forggotten Realms and such, with all the dragons, magic
swords and stuff (it's a D&D setting made with the d20 license and
all). It just have a more "anime" flavor than usual, with more manga
style art on the books and some minor details to make it a little
different than most (like there's no drows, some firearms, goblins
are not evil, that elemental based magic i spoke about, and so on).
It's called Tormenta, in case you wanna search about it...


>
> Yep, this works and is pretty straightforward.
>
>  In a Magic Medley (for Fudge) they lay out a similar system where
> you may have fire magic and everything you might do with it is a
> stunt, though they have a slightly crunchier approach to it,
changing
> difficulty levels to suit the task, so that creating a candle
flame
> is easier than creating a wall of fire.
>

Yeah, it's kinda like that. It's based on the rules of a brazilian
generic system pretty used around here (whose rules are already
based on the Ars Magica magic system, actually), that was once used
in the books of that setting before the d20 license came out (that's
why the elemental-based magic is still used in the setting). I just
didn't put the difficulty level because Wushu usually don't use
them, so it would be more coherent with the whole system, and used
that little spell-learning thing instead of letting the players do
whatever they wanted with the Trait to give it a little more D&D
feel - you know, a free-form spell system might be cool, but being
able to cast the Erwin's Huge Firebats of Hell spell that the old
master of the character teached him before being killed by the
villain is way more interesting in some games ^^. I thought of using
a different Trait for each spell, but that way most mages would have
a reaaaaally small spellbook...

> I was working on something similar to this for my Arabian Nights
> Wushu setting until it all disappeared in my great Hard disk
crash,
> though I'm trying to get it and several other projects up to speed
> again. One thing I was playtesting was a skill for magical self-
> transformation. I was looking to recreate battles between two
mages
> who would take on a variety of animal or mythological beast shapes
in
> quick succession. Enchanter artisan was to be another ability -
> combining the ability to say, weave carpets and enchant them to
fly.
> The ability to summon and command Djin and effreets was another
area
> I was developing as a possible magical trait.

Those are interesting ideas. I really don't see much complications
to it - i mean, in a wide open gaming style like Wushu gives, all
you need is a Trait that says "you can do it", and then put all the
details in the description of the actions... Right?



>
> I'm always pleased to see stuff by other Wushu fans regardless of
> whether I end up adopting it or not. There's a lot of great stuff
out
> there, but I don't use all of it. I do use complications and
setbacks.
> All in all good work, and I hope to see more of it.

Well, maybe you'll do. It all depends on my social skills to
convince my group to play this Wushu campaing...

> >
> > by BURP
>
> So, if you don't mind me scking, why BURP? Is it a commentary on
the
> gaseous nature of some GMs, or is it an acronym (Bruno's Universal
> Role Playing)? Just curious...  :)

Actually, it's real meaning got lost to time =P. It was a nicknaame
i had at school long ago, by the time i was starting to play with
the internet... So i ended using it in forums, mail-lists and such.
Don't remember why i had it, though, since i never really had a much
gaseous nature =P. But i actually used it once for a game system i
made called the "Best Universal Role Playning System", or
just "BURPS" - not that it was really the best, of course, it was
just a joke with GURPS =P.

C ya.

by BURP
SCREAM PETRY...

--- In wushurpg@..., "Bruno" <bbelloc@h...> wrote:
> Hi!


Hellllo Bruno!Welcome to the list.
>
> I'm new around here, but got to know Wushu for the "Wushu Guide to
> the Matrix" for quite some time already... I'm thinking of running
a
> campaing in a well known medieval setting here in Brazil using the
> Wushu rules, and made up some few stuff to use. I put the main ones
> in the Wiki page:
>
A brazilian Medieval setting? That'd be new territory for me to
explore...Any chance of a blurb on it?

> http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/Setbacks (this is the first one i
> posted, and didn't know how to creat a new page yet - i'm new to
> this wiki stuff -, so i ended up posting in the Setbacks section
> since it have a common subject... It's the third alternate rule,
the
> one of the Fatigue Points)

It is an interesting idea - I'll try it in play and see how it runs.
I generally use Bailywolf's setback mechanism as standard in my
games.
>
> http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/Spellsystem (this one's a simple
> spell system)
>

Yep, this works and is pretty straightforward.

  In a Magic Medley (for Fudge) they lay out a similar system where
you may have fire magic and everything you might do with it is a
stunt, though they have a slightly crunchier approach to it, changing
difficulty levels to suit the task, so that creating a candle flame
is easier than creating a wall of fire.

I was working on something similar to this for my Arabian Nights
Wushu setting until it all disappeared in my great Hard disk crash,
though I'm trying to get it and several other projects up to speed
again. One thing I was playtesting was a skill for magical self-
transformation. I was looking to recreate battles between two mages
who would take on a variety of animal or mythological beast shapes in
quick succession. Enchanter artisan was to be another ability -
combining the ability to say, weave carpets and enchant them to fly.
The ability to summon and command Djin and effreets was another area
I was developing as a possible magical trait.

> http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/Houserules (some minor house rules
> and stuff)

Again, its the kind of stuff I'd like to see in play before
commenting.
>
> So, what do you think of them? Any suggestions?

I'm always pleased to see stuff by other Wushu fans regardless of
whether I end up adopting it or not. There's a lot of great stuff out
there, but I don't use all of it. I do use complications and setbacks.
All in all good work, and I hope to see more of it.
>
> by BURP

So, if you don't mind me scking, why BURP? Is it a commentary on the
gaseous nature of some GMs, or is it an acronym (Bruno's Universal
Role Playing)? Just curious...  :)

Escherwolf

Hi!

I'm new around here, but got to know Wushu for the "Wushu Guide to
the Matrix" for quite some time already... I'm thinking of running a
campaing in a well known medieval setting here in Brazil using the
Wushu rules, and made up some few stuff to use. I put the main ones
in the Wiki page:

http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/Setbacks (this is the first one i
posted, and didn't know how to creat a new page yet - i'm new to
this wiki stuff -, so i ended up posting in the Setbacks section
since it have a common subject... It's the third alternate rule, the
one of the Fatigue Points)

http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/Spellsystem (this one's a simple
spell system)

http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/Houserules (some minor house rules
and stuff)

So, what do you think of them? Any suggestions?

C ya.


by BURP
SCREAM POETRY...

--- John McDonald <mac3141@...> wrote:
> So, just to get started (and assuming that anybody
> is interested),
> let's establish just what makes a cyberpunk setting
> - what are the
> tropes, what do you think of when somebody says
> cyberpunk, and what
> kinds of characters or situations would you expect
> to see in such a
> setting...???

Esentialy Cyberpunk is Film Noir done sci-fi.  The
definition I tend to use is:  (lifted from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk) "Cyberpunk (a
portmanteau of cybernetics and punk) is a genre of
science fiction that focuses on computers or
information technology, usually coupled with some
degree of breakdown in social order. The plot of
cyberpunk writing often centers on a conflict among
hackers, artificial intelligences, and mega
corporations, tending to be set within a near-future
dystopian Earth, rather than the "outer space" locales
prevalent at the time of cyberpunk's inception. Much
of the genre's "atmosphere" echoes film noir, and
written works in the genre often use techniques from
detective fiction."

As for charicters I expect Hackers, ex-soldiers
cybered to the gills and hiring out as mercs, smooth
black marketeers, "doctors" (sometimes med school
dropouts, or if you're realy lucky an honest to gods
fully trained vetrinarian) operating with minimal or
no licensing and supervision to install cybernetics
and wierd bio-ware, PI's, and just about any other
charicter you've seen in a cyberpunk novel, movie, or
comic.






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--- In wushurpg@..., Martin Hall <redwulf25_ci@y...>
wrote:
>
> Any sugestions on getting that gritty Cyberpunk feel
> from the action descriptions? (I think it will be easy
> enough but . . .)
>
> For Neuromancer/CP 2020 style netruning would it be
> better to run the opposing system as a series of
> encounters (mostly mooks) or the whole system as a
> nemisis?
>
It occurs to me that this whole Wushu Punk yhing would be a great
thing to explore on the mailing list as a group with a view of
collectively developing a guide and basic setting to Wushu Punk. I
visualise it as discussions about various aspects of such a guide
from the broad ideas to specific details which could be collated and
written up for the Wiki with credit to all contributors to the
discussion. I've already seen a fair bit of talent on the list -
Aaron Smith's narrative description examples, Vasco Brown's sustem
design innovations, and Hollis McCray's character sheets come to mind
just for starters. It could be very cool if we pursue it as a group...

So, just to get started (and assuming that anybody is interested),
let's establish just what makes a cyberpunk setting - what are the
tropes, what do you think of when somebody says cyberpunk, and what
kinds of characters or situations would you expect to see in such a
setting...???

Escherwolf

--- mcsorley@... wrote:

> > --- John McDonald <mac3141@...> wrote:
> > For Neuromancer/CP 2020 style netruning would it
> be
> > better to run the opposing system as a series of
> > encounters (mostly mooks) or the whole system as a
> > nemisis?
>
> I wouldn't do it, actually.  The problem with
> netrunning has always been
> that one player does it while the rest of the
> players sit and wait.  New
> Shadowrun apparently fixes this.

I don't see how a runner with an 8 die cap and a 3-6
Chi opponent would run any longer than anyother split
party scenario I could think up . . .




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> --- John McDonald <mac3141@...> wrote:
> For Neuromancer/CP 2020 style netruning would it be
> better to run the opposing system as a series of
> encounters (mostly mooks) or the whole system as a
> nemisis?

I wouldn't do it, actually.  The problem with netrunning has always been
that one player does it while the rest of the players sit and wait.  New
Shadowrun apparently fixes this.

According to descriptions, crackers in shadowrun 4th edition operate at
the same time and on the same scale as the other party members.  Cracking
activities act as concurrent goals during a run, and the immersive virtual
net is gone, in favor of a heads-up type display that lets you see what's
going on in real space.

For example, the group is on a run, and they reach a biolocked door.  The
cracker looks at the door, and in his overlaid display, sees the security
program guarding the door as a big fortress.  The rest of the party
engages in a gunfight with the security goons while the cracker launches
his attack routines at the fortress.  In game terms, it's a nemesis that
only he can fight, and it has its own die pool, the gamemaster can
describe details for it, etc.  It might have enough AI to launch
counterattacks and try to counter-crack the PC's computer rig, get his ID,
and shut him down.

Similarly, during a car chase, the cracker PC can try to aid the chase by
breaking into traffic lights, other car control system to cut off the
pursuers, or crack directly into the enemy's car and shut down their
engine.  Everything is wifi enabled, after all.

In a regular gunfight, he might try to crack into the enemy mercenaries'
cyber gear and randomly dealign their targeting rigs so they miss
everything they think they're aiming at.

I think this is a much superior method to the lone wolf gridrunning of
earlier cyberpunk games.

--
Daniel McSorley

--- John McDonald <mac3141@...> wrote:

<snips good advice>

Nice, now onto some more detailed questions.

Any sugestions on getting that gritty Cyberpunk feel
from the action descriptions? (I think it will be easy
enough but . . .)

For Neuromancer/CP 2020 style netruning would it be
better to run the opposing system as a series of
encounters (mostly mooks) or the whole system as a
nemisis?

Um, I had a few more but they've sliped my mind.
Anyone here actuly DONE CP in Wushu?



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Random thoughts:

Shadowrun 4th ed has greatly improved the hacking
aspect with wireless networks and so forth. Enough of
an improvement that people are saying you can have a
hacker run and it doesn't really disrupt the game.
Skim the mechanics and see what they do, and perhaps
incoporate that.

Cyberware: there's a number of different things you
can do related to this. As John has said, cyberware
basically winds up being a special effect. While that
might seem a bit counter intuitive to begin with,
realistically... it's not doing a whole heck of a lot
that a normal biological part could do.

If you want a bit more of a mechanical (rules based)
approach to cyberware, here's a couple of rough
ideas..

Setup a pool of cyber points, and allow the players to
purchase X number of cyber traits. A Decker (hacker)
could spend those points getting the tricked out WiFi
comp implanted in their skull, whereas the Cyberthug
could dump some points into body parts, and the others
into "enhancements" like hidden claws, built in gun,
smartlink guns, and so forth. Can also allow a
Skillslot to be purchased, which is basically an
unspecificed Trait that is bought at whatever level
you're allowing. In the course of the game, the
character can purchase skill chips (or whatever) and
slot them into the Skillslot. Bang, you've got an
instant skill in Helicopter, Hacking, or whatever
skill was purchased/given in chip form.

Another possibility is to simply expand the number of
Trait points available and allow the players to
purchase cyberware with whatever minimal restrictions
you've got. the difference between this suggestion and
the one above, is the one above is basically setting
up 2 Trait systems. The core one of Wushu, which would
be for attributes, skills, whatever, and then the
Cyber one, which would be for things like skill slots,
cybergear etc.

A third possibility is to make some sort of an
advancement scheme up. First, decide how (or even if?)
cyberware is given to start. then, as the game
progresses, players can be awarded 1 or 2 points each
session. These points can then be spent to increase
the range of the cybernetic equipment. So for example,
a player has a Cyberarm 3 trait. Game logic suggests
that something like a cyberlimb basically functions as
good as it's going to be. So the player could cash in
X number of points gained through play, and have their
arm modified. Perhaps you allow the trait to be
increased to a 4, perhaps you allow for a hidden
compartment to be added to it, maybe they can make it
look more (or less) human.

Lots of great things you could do, depending on what
kind of game you're looking for.

I personally would be inclined to restrict cyber
Traits from having the free range movement like
regular traits do. Points spent in cybergear are
"locked". There could be ways for a player to still
mess around with those points, but I wouldn't make it
as free and open as "ordinary" traits are.



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--- In wushurpg@..., "redwulf25_ci" <redwulf25_ci@y...>
wrote:
> Any advice on running Cyber-Punk styled Wushu?

Though I haven't done cyberpunk with Wushu, it sounds like a great
idea. Here's where I see the advantages:

1) Cyberware - always a big problem for Cyberpunk games, which often
have to come up with rules for preventing over use of cyberware, such
as the cyberpsychosis used by some. In Wushu, cyberware is just another
special effect - it doesn't matter if they load up on it, and it
doesn't encourage players to do so in order to get an in game advantage.

2) I always gamed my cyberpunk stuff with the idea that life is
cheap...Wushu allows you to do that with most of the world (mooks)
without disempowering the players to the extent where they are afraid
to stick their heads above water.

3) Hacking/netrunning etc usually slows the game down for those not
involved. In Wushu, it can be covered by a series of statements
decribing the process, against a 'black ice' threat rating. It
shouldn't take any longer than any other action.

So there's the advantages. How would I go about it? If they want
cyberware, tell them to take a trait in it that covers all cyberware
that they might have. Same for genetic modifications. Then have them
write a brief description of what form such mods take.

Hacking - what kind are you going to use? Is it a Neuromancer style
net, a virtual reality, ubiquitous computing or social hacking? Make
sure any would be hackers understand what form the net will take.

Resources - Classic Cyberpunk - Cyberpunk 2020, examples of a variety
of different cyberpunk settings - Ex Machina, Cool up to date
cyberpunk - Fates Worse than Death, and just damn good ideas -
Transhuman Space (not really Cyberpunk but useful).

Who's in power in your game? Is it Governments, multinational
corporations, the Military, or secret cabals? How is the world policed -
  normal police, martial law, all powerful Judge Dredd types, private
security only for the rich with gangs offering street level protection
or otherwise? What's the culture like - uniform ethnicity, divisions
between ethnicities (perhaps Asians at heads of multinationals
protected by street samurai) or racial hatred? Are any resources rare?
Is the city overpopulated? Who is rich and who is poor? How does the
monetary system work - money, trade, credits, implanted credit ratings?
What kind of crime takes place in the city, and who does it. How
corrupt are official bodies? What becomes of the dead - decent burial,
turned into soylent green, mined for organ transplants, left where they
lie, recycled or otherwise?

Just a few thoughts to start with...

Escherwolf
(Finally got my computer fixed - Yay!)

Any advice on running Cyber-Punk styled Wushu?

--- mcsorley@... wrote:

> It is suggested that players can shuffle traits
> around between sessions to
> represent character change in a mechanical way.

I think it's a good idea. It helps people to not worry
so much about picking _exactly_ what they're going to
have, since they know they'll be able to shift things
around later if they need/want.


> I think this would also work for advancement if, in
> addition to shuffling traits around, you let more  >
experienced characters have broader traits.

Hmmm. "Advancement" in Wushu is a bit of a tricky
thing. Obviously, the default setup is not really
geared for the sort of mechanical advancement you're
thinking of doing. Doesn't mean it's not possible, and
I've been toying with a couple of ideas on that
front... but if you're not really careful, you'll
potentially be changing Wushu in a way that will make
it weaker for you. Obviously though, Wushu is meant to
be played around with. I and I'm sure others, would be
interested in what you're thinking of doing for
advancement(s).


> For instance, archery, slinging, swordplay,
> knife-fighting, eagle style
> kung-fu, greco-roman wrestling, climbing, swimming,
> balance, tumbling are
> all fairly specific traits.  Too specific for wushu,
> really, unless you're
> doing a very low-powered game.

Well.... I'd have to disagree a bit here. Something
like the above skills _might_ be too specific for
Wushu, if you're running it strictly in the default
sense. But since you're already thinking of tacking on
an advancement system, why not simply give the players
more traits and points to buy them with, and simply
cap the max skill level they can get.

Example:
Wushu operates on a scale of 1-6. 1 doesn't really
count, since it's a Weakness. You decide to cap skills
at level 5. However, in order to have a sense of
balance, and force the players to have to think a
little about their character, you decide instead of
giving "points" to buy traits, they've got "levels"
and those are setup like the pyramid skills of FATE.

They can have 1 trait at level 5, 2 at level 4, 3 at
level 3, and 4 at level 2.

This means they pick a total of 10 traits. You can
have a "nicely rounded" character for those that
prefer a bit more specificity in their characters.

If they want to be better at something, it means
they'll have to choose to allow something else to
become worse.

It's a system I've thought about playing around with
for my stab at a fantasy Wushu.

<snip nested trait idea>

Well, it's certainly something you could try. It seems
a bit complex though. Might be kinda annoying to mess
around with on a character sheet too.

A slightly different approach might be to simply have
the overall broad trait, and then let people pick X
number of "subtraits" that are included within it. As
they increase their trait level, they can add X number
of subtraits for each Y level of main trait.

Example:
Badass hand to hand fighter (3)
Each level of Badass allows for 2 subtraits. Since
we've got 6 to play with, I'll pick Knife, Sword,
Wrestling, Improvised weapons, Nerve strikes, and
Ignores pain. Next level (4) I'll add in Muy Thai and
showmanship. This character in game claims to be a
hardened street fighter, and certainly seems to be
able to back it up.

Someone else could take Badass hand to hand fighter
(3) and pick Joint Locks, Throwing, ground combat
(fighting while actually lying on the ground),
wrestling, showmanship, and Ignores Pain. Next level
(4) he adds in Boxing, and Fast reflexes. In game,
this character claims to be a professional fighter of
the UFC sort, and looks like he'd be able to deliver a
serious smackdown too.

Of course, all the traits I listed above don't have to
mean anything, I simply pulled 'em for a thematic
reason....

The point of Traits is to emphasize what makes the
character special. The default is for a person to have
a trait of 2 in _anything_ not explictly listed (as I
recall). So if you're going to the effort of having a
broad selection of traits, make it pay off.

Using the above example, you could say that absolutely
_none_ of the subtraits has _any_ mechanical effect.
So this means that both players would be rolling
against a 3 (or 4). So what's the point?

For the above style of game, the subtraits restrict
the type of narration a player can engage in. The
street fighter wouldn't be allowed to say "As his
punch grazes my cheek, I grab his fist and twist it
upwards while forcing him to his knees, while my right
elbow smashes into his temple". Conversely, while the
UFC fighter could use knees, the GM could veto him
saying "As my head snaps back from the knee, I drive a
knife hand forward into the inner part of his leg,
hitting the nerves and causing it to go temporarily
numb".

In a fantasy game, you could use a variation of that
to have "character classes". You could have a Thief
profession, and a whole slew of special subtraits that
are selectable. You could therefore have two
characters that are both the exact same level, and yet
wildly different in terms of ability.

Looking back over, I seem to have sort of gone astray.
So I'll summarize :)  .... the idea has potential, but
might be overly complicated for minimal benefit. If
you're looking to try and help characters seem more
different without messing around too much in changing
how things work, there might be a better approach.
(Not saying my approach is better, just saying there
might be a better way to achieve the differentiation
you're looking for).



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--- mcsorley@... wrote:

> Do you tell your players the threat rating of a
> challenge?  What about how
> dangerous it is?  I'm seeing pros and cons of doing
> it both ways, and
> wondered how others run this.
<snip rest of message>

I getting close to running my first Wushu thing, so
bear in mind I don't have actual experience here..

I'd have to say, the big question is, what's gained by
_not_ telling them? One of Wushu's big things is,
player empowerment. Not telling them potentially
reduces the amount of power they feel they have within
the game.

Another consideration is how many other games that
they're used to withold this sort of knowledge? If
they're used to being told "Roll a dice, and I'll tell
you if you hit or not", then simply telling them
what's needed to beat the conflict might take a bit of
getting used to.

I'd say part of keeping the information secret (in
other games at least) is it's used as an attempt to
engage the player. They have to worry about whether or
not they're actually able to succeed in the combat.
Each die rolled increases the tension, and the player
is trying to remember the past rolls so they'll be
able to figure out if they've succeeded or not.

Wushu on the other hand isn't relying on that sort of
mechanic. At least not exclusively.

Me? I'd try laying it out for 'em. Everyone's going to
know what to expect (at least initially) and they'll
likely be more engaged.

The one thing I would consider holding back on
(depending on the situation) would be the "time bomb"
aspect. This being the "Party needs to resolve the
conflict within X rounds, or the threat
increases/replenishes/changes in some way". If you're
using a Time Bomb style encounter, you might not
inform them that there's a ticking clock. Let 'em
discover it when the clock ticks down and BAM! a whole
new problem confronts them, or the nature of it
changes. Times when you _do_ want to let them know, is
when it's going to increase the tension.

Action movies, T.V. and so forth are always messing
around with showing you the time ticking down.
Pressure increases, and even though you as the
audience know what the outcome _has_ to be, if you're
a fan of the show, you'll get caught up in it.



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It is suggested that players can shuffle traits around between sessions to
represent character change in a mechanical way.

I think this would also work for advancement if, in addition to shuffling
traits around, you let more experienced characters have broader traits.

For instance, archery, slinging, swordplay, knife-fighting, eagle style
kung-fu, greco-roman wrestling, climbing, swimming, balance, tumbling are
all fairly specific traits.  Too specific for wushu, really, unless you're
doing a very low-powered game.

But say a character had swordplay 4 as a trait.  When the GM and player
decided the character had learned enough, he might take melee 4 instead of
swordplay, and the melee trait would apply equally to swords, spears,
axes, clubs, or whatever.

Examples of broader traits would be missile weapons, melee weapons,
unarmed combat, fitness, and coordination.  Each of these subsumes some of
the narrower traits.

Still broader traits might be "combat" and "athletics".

The pinnacle trait in this category would be a "physical" trait, and would
cover every one of the narrower traits I've already mentioned.

--
Daniel McSorley

Do you tell your players the threat rating of a challenge?  What about how
dangerous it is?  I'm seeing pros and cons of doing it both ways, and
wondered how others run this.

I generally don't tell the players how many successes they need to
accumulate to beat a challenge, and just tally as they go.  I generally
tell them if these troops seem more competant and dangerous than the
sentries they took out earlier, for instance, so they can infer that the
danger is higher and they should put more into yin.

If you're using a pacing clock, like, every three rounds the danger of the
challenge goes up by one, do you tell the players about that, or let them
figure it out when all of a sudden their single Yin success isn't enough
to protect them any more?

Giving out more information tends to let the players plan a bit more, and
can up the intensity for them.  If they know the guards will be reinforced
by the SWAT team in 3 turns, so the danger will go up, they can try to
take out the guards faster, or retreat to consider another path.
--
Daniel McSorley

> What would be good renamings for Chi, Yin, and Yang in a cyberpunk
> setting?  I'm thinking Edge for Chi but am compleatly stuck on Yin and
> Yang . . .

Depends on your cyberpunk.  If you're going with 80s cyberpunk where the
world has been bought out by japanese megacorps, then yin and yang work
very well; well, in Japanese it would be in and yo, but either works.

--
Daniel McSorley

What would be good renamings for Chi, Yin, and Yang in a cyberpunk
setting?  I'm thinking Edge for Chi but am compleatly stuck on Yin and
Yang . . .

Getting one of the core rules would be helpful in understanding the
rules a bit better.  I have Pulp-fu.  The rules in WushuOpen are
essentially the same with ideas for running a pulp game.  But the part
that may be useful to you is the examples.  Also the gun-fu, cut-fu,
and car-fu have good examples.  I just have Gun-fu and can tell you
that it fits nicely with the open rules.  I assume the others do too.

--- In wushurpg@..., "redwulf25_ci" <redwulf25_ci@y...>
wrote:

> Ok, already found two links Re: what I just asked.  Anyone have ideas
> or sugestions I won't find in the threads that are linked to on this
> page?

> I'm thinking of useing the Wushu System to run a Super-hero game.  Does
> anyone have sugestions, direct experiance, etc. for me?  All I have is
> the Free Version of the rules, is there anything in any of the other
> downloads that I might need or want to make it work better?

I think you already saw supers-fu on the wiki; if not:
http://wiki.saberpunk.net/pm2/pmwiki.php?n=Wushu.Supers-Fu

Basically, the key to doing ANY genre is enforcing appropriate traits at
character creation, and appropriate details during play.  If you want
x-men or avengers-type heroes, "eyebeam blast" or "teleporting" is a good
trait.  If you want Justice League power, go for something a bit broader
like "Green Lantern ring" or "Son of Krypton" and let those very broad
traits do a lot in play.

Encourage your players to describe things in comic-book terms if that's
your thing - "I charge towards Diabolical with my big square fist cocked
and ready/ and the next frame shows his head snapped back and my arm
hooked up after the punch."

Try to resist the urge to add fiddly details to the system.  I have to
resist this myself, I'm always thinking "and then I'll add the magic point
pool for the sorcerors".  Don't put in extra power pools for super powers:
chi is life, luck, energy, blood, willpower, breath, all wrapped into one;
feel free to rename it for the genre, though.  If a player wants to have a
power that is intermittent or limited in uses, those are perfectly good
details on his power, and don't require a separate pool to keep track of.

Keep character generation simple; 5,4,3,1 the traits, get a motivation and
a personal conflict for the hero, and go.

--
Daniel McSorley