John McDonald wrote:

>--- In wushurpg@..., "Aaron Smith" <blackcat1313@g...>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Taken from my own homebrew system (coming soon to a tabletop nowhere
>>near you!) here's a way to mix up merits and flaws into the Wushu mix.
>>
>>Note: This system replaces the "when your flaw is in play, you roll
>>against a 1 for all challenges"
>>
>>
>>
>Aaron - would you like this put onto the Wiki in the fan rules section?
>I'm happy to transcribe it for you if you like...I think it deserves to
>be there...
>
>Escherwolf - Thinking that when life gives you demons, you should make
>demonade...Ok I'm not sure that made sense even to me...
>
>
Oh, if you're willing to do the transcription, then great! Please do.
I've got no problems with my idea seeing wider circulation.

AS

--- In wushurpg@..., "Aaron Smith" <blackcat1313@g...> wrote:
 

Taken from my own homebrew system (coming soon to a tabletop nowhere
near you!) here's a way to mix up merits and flaws into the Wushu mix.

Note: This system replaces the "when your flaw is in play, you roll
against a 1 for all challenges"

  

Aaron - would you like this put onto the Wiki in the fan rules section? I'm happy to transcribe it for you if you like...I think it deserves to be there...

Escherwolf - Thinking that when life gives you demons, you should make demonade...Ok I'm not sure that made sense even to me...  

--- In wushurpg@..., "Aaron Smith" <blackcat1313@g...>
wrote:
> Taken from my own homebrew system (coming soon to a tabletop nowhere
> near you!) here's a way to mix up merits and flaws into the Wushu mix.
>
> Note: This system replaces the "when your flaw is in play, you roll
> against a 1 for all challenges"
>
Aaron - would you like this put onto the Wiki in the fan rules section?
I'm happy to transcribe it for you if you like...I think it deserves to
be there...

Escherwolf - Thinking that when life gives you demons, you should make
demonade...Ok I'm not sure that made sense even to me...

The Nemesis tactics list is now on the Wiki in the articles section. I
will probably make a PDF of the list available in the files section
here as well in due course. There are some 20 items now, a big raise
from the original eleven, so its worth a look for the new ones. Enjoy -
and don't be afraid to add to it - just put yourt name in italics after
your tactic so we know who you are...

Escherwolf - Thinking that the plural of nemesis should be nemesii,
even though its not...

This sounds cool - I might try it in one of my future one-offs and

>see whether my players take to it....
>
>It occurs to me that instead of having a merit and a flaw, you could
>just have an aspect as per Fate that can be invoked for positive or
>negative use and apply your system the same way...
>
>Escherwolf - thinking that my bad typing should earn me a point of
>chi...
>
   There are several instances where a "trait" of some sort can be both
an advantage and a disadvantage. A recent case in point was a female
player who choose to take the trait "sexaaay". (She has self esteem
issues...) In play, she used it both as a merit (get the boys to talk to
me, and tell me everything they know) and a flaw (the boys wont STOP
talking to me, and keep trying to pick me up when I'm trying to lay low)

... And your bad typing has to cause you and/or your group a serious
inconvience, or you get NOTHING from me. ;)

--- In wushurpg@..., "Aaron Smith" <blackcat1313@g...>
wrote:
> Taken from my own homebrew system (coming soon to a tabletop nowhere
> near you!) here's a way to mix up merits and flaws into the Wushu
mix.
>
> Note: This system replaces the "when your flaw is in play, you roll
> against a 1 for all challenges"
>
> The players must take a flaw. They'll probably want more than one,
but
> you'll see why in a bit. The player can choose to activate thier
flaw,
> which must cause them and/or thier companions a signifiant problem.
> When they do, they gain a point of chi. The player can also create
> merits, and then activate them with a point of chi. When a player
> activates a merit, the gm gains a point of chi to use against the
> PC's, or for thier villans. The gm can spend thier chi to activate a
> PC's flaw, as well as activating the villans merits. If the PC can
> guess the villans flaw, they can activate a villans flaw with a
point
> of thier chi.
>
This sounds cool - I might try it in one of my future one-offs and
see whether my players take to it....

It occurs to me that instead of having a merit and a flaw, you could
just have an aspect as per Fate that can be invoked for positive or
negative use and apply your system the same way...

Escherwolf - thinking that my bad typing should earn me a point of
chi...

--- In wushurpg@..., "Bruno" <bbelloc@h...> wrote:

> It's a really, really old RPG from Brittain that happened to be the
> first one ever officially released in Brazil back in the 80s (there
> were players before, but only through importing books), thus
> initiating many people in the hobby (me included). Just to comment,
> though, isn't really that much of a deal.

Yeah, I think I may recall having seen mention of it on various
forums. It may well have started a lot of people in the hobby...
>
> It was more of a joke, actually. I'm not that much a fan either...

Yeah, but I still think a Sentai-Fu would probably be a popular
supplement - I just don't feel confident enough with the genre to
write one.

As for my childhood, it was misspent watching Batman, the Green
Hornet, Scoobey Doo, Randall & Hopkirk Deceased and the Samurai..

Escherwolf who watches way too much TV...

> I can't say that I'm familiar with fighting fantasy, but I
wouldn't
> be at all surprised if the defend against all, attack only one
> concept hadn't turned up in other games...

It's a really, really old RPG from Brittain that happened to be the
first one ever officially released in Brazil back in the 80s (there
were players before, but only through importing books), thus
initiating many people in the hobby (me included). Just to comment,
though, isn't really that much of a deal.



> Not really - but I've seen a lot of video game Boss monsters that
are
> surrounded by minor beasties.
>
> I'm not really into Sentai myself, but I know a lot of people who
> are, and I recall that a couple of months ago RPGnet had a thread
> looking for specifically sentai games. Seems to me that a Sentai-
Fu
> supplement would go down well, but I'm not the one to write it.
The
> only thing I've ever seen referencing Sentai at all was in the
Feng
> Shui supplement "Friends of the Dragon". I wouldn't mind seeing a
> Wushu take on the subject...

It was more of a joke, actually. I'm not that much a fan either...
Well, not anymore, actually... Used to watch a lot when i was a kid,
back in the early 90s there really were many of those
japanese "colored heroes fighting monsters" on TV 'round here - so
much it even got its on parody RPG. But i think it could be a nice
book too... They usually involve martial arts on some way or another
(or at least gimnastics masked into martial arts), and the
mook/nemesis system fits so well into the genre most people could
think it was thought for it =P.



> I generally like the mooks to be an obstacle to be overcome to get
to
> the nemesis. Where I would use your version would be in those
games
> where a specific player had an arch-nemesis relationship with the
> nemesis in question (You know the kind of thing - Aha Dr Nazidude,
we
> meet again! type stuff, or maybe in the style of someone that has
> been sought out for revenge by that PC - My name is Indigo
Montoya,
> and you killed my Father!). I can see it now, the sea of
combatants
> part so that the PC in question and the nemesis can come to blows,
> while all the other PCs are fighting mooks. It's Robin Hood vs the
> Sheriff of Nottingham while the Merry men take on the castle
guards.

Yeah, that's exactly what i thought when i wrote it. The GM just
have to be careful when doing so, as the other players might feel
jealous - you know, make sure everyone gets a chance to battle like
this at least once during the campaign...

>
> Bruno, mind if I add your version of this to the Nemesis list on
the
> Wiki (when I eventually get to doing it...probably the comingh
> weekend).

Sure, do it.

>
> And here's another Nemesis tactic filched from the wonderful world
of
> videogame Boss fights. Nemesis is invulnerable except when he or
she
> attacks. So, Sci-fi dude has a protective force field completely
> protecting him from all attacks - but he has to drop it for a
moment
> to shoot his deadly mega-death beam type weapons. If he is not
doing
> an attack, he will take no damage from PC attacks at all. If he
gets
> low on Chi, he may stop attacking, and try to escape while totally
> invulnerable - it would fall to the PCs to either hinder the
escape
> of an invulnerble foe, or provoke him into making another attack
so
> that they can again penetrate his shield. Could be fun...

Again, this is the kind of advice that could be useful to spice up
battle in any RPG...
>
> Escherwolf (Nemesis to all things chocolate - yum).

C ya.

Taken from my own homebrew system (coming soon to a tabletop nowhere
near you!) here's a way to mix up merits and flaws into the Wushu mix.

Note: This system replaces the "when your flaw is in play, you roll
against a 1 for all challenges"

The players must take a flaw. They'll probably want more than one, but
you'll see why in a bit. The player can choose to activate thier flaw,
which must cause them and/or thier companions a signifiant problem.
When they do, they gain a point of chi. The player can also create
merits, and then activate them with a point of chi. When a player
activates a merit, the gm gains a point of chi to use against the
PC's, or for thier villans. The gm can spend thier chi to activate a
PC's flaw, as well as activating the villans merits. If the PC can
guess the villans flaw, they can activate a villans flaw with a point
of thier chi.

So, if you want to load up on flaws, you can get points by activating
them, and getting yourself and your mates into the crapper. Oh, and if
you activate a flaw, and your mates get dragged into it, they get TWO
points of chi.

If the gm wants to make an event go down, such as causing the PC's to
be kidnapped, they can give everyone a point of Chi and declare the
event to occur.

--- In wushurpg@..., Claude Guéant
<claude.gueant@e...> wrote:

> This list seems like a very usefull tool for Wushu GM. Do you think
we
> could translate it and publish it in our french zine, with all
original
> authors duly named ?
>
> Claude

Not a problem - I hope to have it all up on the Wiki with
attributions by this time next week...and there will be a few new
additions to the tactics list.

I'll take this opportunity to say that if anyone has a tactic that
they'd like to submit for the list feel free - just post them here
and I'll whack 'em onto the Wiki list.

Escherwolf (thinking that he might have to pay more attention to
those nasty typos than usual).

--- In wushurpg@..., "Bruno" <bbelloc@h...> wrote:
> Hey, som neat tricks here!
>
> --- In wushurpg@..., "John McDonald" <mac3141@i...>
> wrote:
>
> Mmmm... Sounds like Fighting Fantasy, doesn't? It have a similar
> combat system, where, when fighting multiple oponents, the
character
> can use its roll to defend against all, but to attack only one at a
> time, unless it have a higher "Attack" rating, that would let it
> attack more than one enemy each roud (say, 2 if it have "Atack: 2",
> and so on). In systems that intend to be simple above all, it's a
> decent way of handling this, that works pretty well.
>
I can't say that I'm familiar with fighting fantasy, but I wouldn't
be at all surprised if the defend against all, attack only one
concept hadn't turned up in other games...
>
> Mmmm... I don't know why, but this sounds soooo familiar... Where
> could it be from? Mmmm... Is it... Power Rangers??? Ever noted like
> the big monster of each episode only fights with one character at a
> time (unless, of course, it's so big only a giant robot gan take
> it), usually the one where the plot is centered this week, while
the
> others fight with the mooks around? Could this be the beggining of
a
> new Sentai-Fu suplement?

Not really - but I've seen a lot of video game Boss monsters that are
surrounded by minor beasties.

I'm not really into Sentai myself, but I know a lot of people who
are, and I recall that a couple of months ago RPGnet had a thread
looking for specifically sentai games. Seems to me that a Sentai-Fu
supplement would go down well, but I'm not the one to write it. The
only thing I've ever seen referencing Sentai at all was in the Feng
Shui supplement "Friends of the Dragon". I wouldn't mind seeing a
Wushu take on the subject...
>
> Anyway, this could be a nice other way to handle this using mooks -
> let only one player take on the nemesis at once (usually the one
> with more background reasons to fight the mooks), while the others
> take on the mooks.
>
I generally like the mooks to be an obstacle to be overcome to get to
the nemesis. Where I would use your version would be in those games
where a specific player had an arch-nemesis relationship with the
nemesis in question (You know the kind of thing - Aha Dr Nazidude, we
meet again! type stuff, or maybe in the style of someone that has
been sought out for revenge by that PC - My name is Indigo Montoya,
and you killed my Father!). I can see it now, the sea of combatants
part so that the PC in question and the nemesis can come to blows,
while all the other PCs are fighting mooks. It's Robin Hood vs the
Sheriff of Nottingham while the Merry men take on the castle guards.

Bruno, mind if I add your version of this to the Nemesis list on the
Wiki (when I eventually get to doing it...probably the comingh
weekend).

And here's another Nemesis tactic filched from the wonderful world of
videogame Boss fights. Nemesis is invulnerable except when he or she
attacks. So, Sci-fi dude has a protective force field completely
protecting him from all attacks - but he has to drop it for a moment
to shoot his deadly mega-death beam type weapons. If he is not doing
an attack, he will take no damage from PC attacks at all. If he gets
low on Chi, he may stop attacking, and try to escape while totally
invulnerable - it would fall to the PCs to either hinder the escape
of an invulnerble foe, or provoke him into making another attack so
that they can again penetrate his shield. Could be fun...

Escherwolf (Nemesis to all things chocolate - yum).

> I'm compiling the a list of Nemesis tactics to put on the Wiki - Mind
> if I quote this concept there with attribution to you?

Not at all.

This list seems like a very usefull tool for Wushu GM. Do you think we
could translate it and publish it in our french zine, with all original
authors duly named ?

Claude

--- In wushurpg@..., Claude Guéant
<claude.gueant@e...> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've done something similar, stolen from Neil's Gaiman Neverwhere.
This is
> essentially the same thing, except that the Nemesis is killable.
But if
> you put back the heart in her dead body, she revives.
>
> Mechanically, I let the Nemesis put aside her last point of
Chi, "hiding"
> it in a place, an object or even a person. This makes the Nemesis
weaker,
> but she *will* come back from the dead, starting with the Chi point
she
> locked away.
>
> This point of Chi doesn't need to always stand for the life of the
NPC. It
> could be her darkest secret (or her True Name), which can't be
revealed
> even with magic as long as the Chi point stay hidden. It could be
the
> "emotional heart", making the Nemesis invulnerable to emotion
manipulation
> (not subject to love spell for example), but leaving her with a
heart of
> stone.
>
> In Magick-fu, my guide for magic in Wushu, this is a trick that PC
can
> use.
>
> Claude

I'm compiling the a list of Nemesis tactics to put on the Wiki - Mind
if I quote this concept there with attribution to you?

Escherwolf (Who really will get around to it soon).

--- In wushurpg@..., Claude Guéant <claude.gueant@e...>
wrote:
>
> Magick-fu is available in the first issue of Dice Don't Rule, a
webzine
> dedicated to Wushu. You'll find it at this URL : http://wushu.over-
blog.com/
>
> There's a trick though. It's all in French.
>
> Claude

Ouch...Oh well, for those list members that aren't French-challenged,
I've added a link to "Dice Don't Rule" in the links section.

In the meantime, I guess I'll have to hold out in hope of a
translation...

Escherwolf (who only speaks English and frequent gibberish).

Hey, som neat tricks here!

--- In wushurpg@..., "John McDonald" <mac3141@i...>
wrote:
>
> 2) Nemesis defends against all, but attacks only one at a time.
You've
> seen this kind of thing - the musketeer who holds off a virtual
army
> simultaneously with lightning parries and dodges, but only
skewering a
> single adversary at a time. Nemesis rolls dice - allocated yin
dice are
> applied against all PCs, but yang dice can only be applied to one -
> usually whoever seems most threatening.
>

Mmmm... Sounds like Fighting Fantasy, doesn't? It have a similar
combat system, where, when fighting multiple oponents, the character
can use its roll to defend against all, but to attack only one at a
time, unless it have a higher "Attack" rating, that would let it
attack more than one enemy each roud (say, 2 if it have "Atack: 2",
and so on). In systems that intend to be simple above all, it's a
decent way of handling this, that works pretty well.



> 6)Nemesis harries PCs with mooks. PCs get to choose whether they
are
> attacking the nemesis or the mooks, but they must defend against
mook
> attacks regardless or take a mook hit - usually a fixed number of
yin
> successes per round need to be allocated, which reduces the amount
of
> yang dice the players can throw at the nemesis.

Mmmm... I don't know why, but this sounds soooo familiar... Where
could it be from? Mmmm... Is it... Power Rangers??? Ever noted like
the big monster of each episode only fights with one character at a
time (unless, of course, it's so big only a giant robot gan take
it), usually the one where the plot is centered this week, while the
others fight with the mooks around? Could this be the beggining of a
new Sentai-Fu suplement?

Anyway, this could be a nice other way to handle this using mooks -
let only one player take on the nemesis at once (usually the one
with more background reasons to fight the mooks), while the others
take on the mooks.


>
> 7)Nemesis fights, but PCs must cope with environmental problems.
Pcs
> must defend as per above against a fixed environmental threat -
such as
> pumice falling from above during a volcanic eruption or a
collapsing
> building. I also apply this to things like slippery ice, fighting
while
> hanging off the side of mountains and the such - in this case, if
the
> players would normally lose a point of chi, they instead take an
> environmental setback (you lose your balance and slide across the
ice,
> you lose your grip on the cliff-face, etc).

This actually works well one bumping up the combats on any system...
I always try to do something like that when playing any RPG, so that
even combats gets to be more than just rolling dice.


>
> 8)Nemesis fights, but PCs are plagued by a distracting time limit.
For
> instance , the Nemesis, who can breathe underwater, drags the PCs
down
> with itself. The PCs are forced to seek air every three rounds or
lose
> a point of chi to drowning.  Or, the Pcs are fighting in space,
but
> only have a certain amount of air left in their suits,. Or the PCs
are
> trying to stop a core meltdown, and must reach the reactor before
a
> certain time has elapsed - and there may also be a serious
radiation
> threat to deal with. In any case, while fighting the nemesis they
must
> deal with some other urgent time-limited need.

Same as above.

>
> 9) Nemesis fights but hides behind a different target. In an
upcoming
> game, I intend to use a possession demon that on the death of its
host
> will transfer to another body and start again with the chi of that
> person. Think "The Hidden" or "Fallen". It may take a little while
for
> the PCs to catch on that killing the temporarily supernaturally
> enhanced vessel does not kill the demon - for that they need a
Taoist
> ritual...
> As another aspect of this, what if the nemesis possesses a PC? The
> other PCs don't want to kill him, but do need to stop him so that
the
> ritual can be performed. This can be fun, having the nemesis
actually
> being a PC that needs to kept alive.
>
> 10) Nemesis fights, but triggers an escape plan before losing all
chi.
> This is best suited to Pulp-Fu type villians. The nemesis falls
against
> the wall, supposedly pummelled into submission - then he smirks as
he
> touches a button and drops through a trap door as the room that
the PCs
> were fighting in turns into some kind of (escapable) death trap.
> Needless to say, the nemesis will return again in some future
chapter
> of the Exploits of.....

Hahah... Just remembered an old brazilian humor RPG, where there's
an special advantage suited just for that, called "Savior Escape" or
something like that (poor translation =P). For a mere 5 character
points, the player could, once each session, get out of a battle
regardless of the conditions ^^.

Anyway, just a few comments, hope i help at something ^^.

--- In wushurpg@..., Claude Guéant
<claude.gueant@e...> wrote:
>
> Mechanically, I let the Nemesis put aside her last point of
Chi, "hiding"
> it in a place, an object or even a person. This makes the Nemesis
weaker,
> but she *will* come back from the dead, starting with the Chi
point she
> locked away.
>

So, basically, the PCs have to find out where this hidden Chi is to
be able to take it out from the nemesis, right? Souds like a pretty
cool trick. I once tried something similar, by stating that a group
of mooks could only be killed if the PCs added some specific piece
of detail to their descriptions - like, say, a bunch of trolls that
can only be really killed if the characters do it with fire or acid;
if they didn't do so, the mooks would regenerate all back, with an
increased Treat Rating. For saddistic GMs like me, it's pretty cool
to see their faces when you say: "every piece you left of them
starts regenerating, and soon their all back on their feet to fight
again"... Guess it could work well with a nemesis too.

> Sounds very cool Claude...and is there a chance that we might see
> Magick-Fu here or on the Wiki at some point in the future (he says,
> with a hopeful look)...

Magick-fu is available in the first issue of Dice Don't Rule, a webzine
dedicated to Wushu. You'll find it at this URL : http://wushu.over-blog.com/

There's a trick though. It's all in French.

Claude

--- In wushurpg@..., Claude Guéant
<claude.gueant@e...> wrote:

> This is my first post. In a few words, I'm a french gamer who's been
> reading and writing too much Wushu stuff lately.

Is it possible to read too much Wushu stuff? Anyway welcome to the
joys of posting to the list...

> I've done something similar, stolen from Neil's Gaiman Neverwhere.
This is

Gaiman - Been a fan of his since Sandman first started - great source
material for gaming...

> essentially the same thing, except that the Nemesis is killable.
But if
> you put back the heart in her dead body, she revives.
>
> Mechanically, I let the Nemesis put aside her last point of
Chi, "hiding"
> it in a place, an object or even a person. This makes the Nemesis
weaker,
> but she *will* come back from the dead, starting with the Chi point
she
> locked away.
>
> This point of Chi doesn't need to always stand for the life of the
NPC. It
> could be her darkest secret (or her True Name), which can't be
revealed
> even with magic as long as the Chi point stay hidden. It could be
the
> "emotional heart", making the Nemesis invulnerable to emotion
manipulation
> (not subject to love spell for example), but leaving her with a
heart of
> stone.
>
> In Magick-fu, my guide for magic in Wushu, this is a trick that PC
can
> use.
>
> Claude

Sounds very cool Claude...and is there a chance that we might see
Magick-Fu here or on the Wiki at some point in the future (he says,
with a hopeful look)...

Escherwolf

--- In wushurpg@..., Claude Guéant <claude.gueant@e...>
wrote:
> Sorry about the multiple post... :(
>
> Claude

Not a problem... I would rather see multiple posts than no posts
personally...Besides, the mooks are doing their X-mas shopping and
can't be sent round to see ya...

Escherwolf

Sorry about the multiple post... :(

Claude

Hello,

This is my first post. In a few words, I'm a french gamer who's been
reading and writing too much Wushu stuff lately.

> Here's one more that's stolen from an old Sinbad movie - the Nemesis
> that has hidden his heart somewhere else.

I've done something similar, stolen from Neil's Gaiman Neverwhere. This is
essentially the same thing, except that the Nemesis is killable. But if
you put back the heart in her dead body, she revives.

Mechanically, I let the Nemesis put aside her last point of Chi, "hiding"
it in a place, an object or even a person. This makes the Nemesis weaker,
but she *will* come back from the dead, starting with the Chi point she
locked away.

This point of Chi doesn't need to always stand for the life of the NPC. It
could be her darkest secret (or her True Name), which can't be revealed
even with magic as long as the Chi point stay hidden. It could be the
"emotional heart", making the Nemesis invulnerable to emotion manipulation
(not subject to love spell for example), but leaving her with a heart of
stone.

In Magick-fu, my guide for magic in Wushu, this is a trick that PC can
use.

Claude

Hello,

This is my first post. In a few words, I'm a french gamer who's been
reading and writing too much Wushu stuff lately.

> Here's one more that's stolen from an old Sinbad movie - the Nemesis
> that has hidden his heart somewhere else.

I've done something similar, stolen from Neil's Gaiman Neverwhere. This is
essentially the same thing, except that the Nemesis is killable. But if
you put back the heart in the dead body, she revives.

Mechanically, I let the Nemesis put aside her last point of Chi, "hiding"
it in a place or an object. This makes the Nemesis weaker, but she *will*
come back from the dead, starting with the Chi point she locked away.

This point of Chi doesn't need to always stand for the life of the NPC. It
could be her darkest secret (or her True Name), which can't be revealed
even with magic as long as the Chi point stay hidden. It could be the
"emotional heart", making the Nemesis invulnerable to emotion manipulation
(not subject to love spell for example), but leaving her with a heart of
stone.

In Magick-fu, my own guide of magic in wushu, this is a trick that PC can
use.

Claude

Hello,

This is my first post. In a few words, I'm a french gamer who's been
reading and writing too much Wushu stuff lately.

> Here's one more that's stolen from an old Sinbad movie - the Nemesis
> that has hidden his heart somewhere else.

I've done something similar, stolen from Neil's Gaiman Neverwhere. This is
essentially the same thing, except that the Nemesis is killable. But if
you put back the heart in the dead body, she revives.

Mechanically, I let the Nemesis put aside her last point of Chi, "hiding"
it in a place or an object. This makes the Nemesis weaker, but she *will*
come back from the dead, starting with the Chi point she locked away.

This point of Chi doesn't need to always stand for the life of the NPC. It
could be her darkest secret (or her True Name), which can't be revealed
even with magic as long as the Chi point stay hidden. It could be the
"emotional heart", making the Nemesis invulnerable to emotion manipulation
(not subject to love spell for example), but leaving her with a heart of
stone.

In Magick-fu, my own guide of magic in wushu, this is a trick that PC can
use.

Claude

--- In wushurpg@..., "reverendbayn" <dan@b...> wrote:

> That's an excellent arsenal of Nemesis tactics you've amassed!
> This definitely needs to go on the wiki.
>
> Do you mind if I use #1 in Wyrd-Fu?
>
> --Dan

Not a problem - use anything you like.

I will be putting it onto the Wiki, but probably not until the
weekend when I have a bit more time to edit it and perhaps add a
couple more examples.

Here's one more that's stolen from an old Sinbad movie - the Nemesis
that has hidden his heart somewhere else. Only destroying the heart
of the nemesis will destroy him, but by strange magicks, he has
removed and secreted his heart elsewhere. Until that heart can be
found and destroyed, the nemesis cannot be killed - (But can be
escaped from, battled to a non-fatal (for him) endpoint, trapped, or
locked out.).

Escherwolf.

Damn! I'm glad I chose to hold off on replying to this one.
That's an excellent arsenal of Nemesis tactics you've amassed!
This definitely needs to go on the wiki.

Do you mind if I use #1 in Wyrd-Fu?

--Dan

--- In wushurpg@..., "Aaron Smith" <blackcat@m...> wrote:
> Hey all. I"m looking for a little advice for how to handle big nemsis
> fights with my PC's all in a group. I'm not sure how to keep the fight
> going long enough to involve everyone... Either I give the nemsis a
> HUGE amount of Chi, or I work out some way that the nemsis fights each
> of the PC's at the same time with the same amount of chi... I'm really
> not sure. What's folks experience with this? Ideas? Opinions?

I've tried most of the tactics used below at one time or another:

1) Nemesis defends and attacks all PCs simultaneously. I used this one
with a sorceror nemesis last weekend. He was floating off the ground,
encased in a bubble of negative energy that could absorb or deflect any
and all attacks up to whatever dice successes he had allocated as yang.
The sorceror also attacked with area attack magicks, so that all PCs
were engaged in both attacking and defending simultaneously with the
nemesis. Note, that the sorcerors actions were rolled and a single die
roll with yin/yang allocation was made each round, then applied against
all PCs.

2) Nemesis defends against all, but attacks only one at a time. You've
seen this kind of thing - the musketeer who holds off a virtual army
simultaneously with lightning parries and dodges, but only skewering a
single adversary at a time. Nemesis rolls dice - allocated yin dice are
applied against all PCs, but yang dice can only be applied to one -
usually whoever seems most threatening.

3)Nemesis attacks and defends against one at a time. I tend to avoid
this one, as a group of PCs can take the nemesis down easily unless he
uses special tactics. (such as those mentioned below).

4)Nemesis automatically regenerates a chi point each round. This is
directly based on the old werewolf regenerating rapidly schtick.

5) Memesis does lifedrain. For every succesful hit against a PC's chi,
nemesis replaces one point of his or her own lost chi.

6)Nemesis harries PCs with mooks. PCs get to choose whether they are
attacking the nemesis or the mooks, but they must defend against mook
attacks regardless or take a mook hit - usually a fixed number of yin
successes per round need to be allocated, which reduces the amount of
yang dice the players can throw at the nemesis.

7)Nemesis fights, but PCs must cope with environmental problems. Pcs
must defend as per above against a fixed environmental threat - such as
pumice falling from above during a volcanic eruption or a collapsing
building. I also apply this to things like slippery ice, fighting while
hanging off the side of mountains and the such - in this case, if the
players would normally lose a point of chi, they instead take an
environmental setback (you lose your balance and slide across the ice,
you lose your grip on the cliff-face, etc).

8)Nemesis fights, but PCs are plagued by a distracting time limit. For
instance , the Nemesis, who can breathe underwater, drags the PCs down
with itself. The PCs are forced to seek air every three rounds or lose
a point of chi to drowning.  Or, the Pcs are fighting in space, but
only have a certain amount of air left in their suits,. Or the PCs are
trying to stop a core meltdown, and must reach the reactor before a
certain time has elapsed - and there may also be a serious radiation
threat to deal with. In any case, while fighting the nemesis they must
deal with some other urgent time-limited need.

9) Nemesis fights but hides behind a different target. In an upcoming
game, I intend to use a possession demon that on the death of its host
will transfer to another body and start again with the chi of that
person. Think "The Hidden" or "Fallen". It may take a little while for
the PCs to catch on that killing the temporarily supernaturally
enhanced vessel does not kill the demon - for that they need a Taoist
ritual...
As another aspect of this, what if the nemesis possesses a PC? The
other PCs don't want to kill him, but do need to stop him so that the
ritual can be performed. This can be fun, having the nemesis actually
being a PC that needs to kept alive.

10) Nemesis fights, but triggers an escape plan before losing all chi.
This is best suited to Pulp-Fu type villians. The nemesis falls against
the wall, supposedly pummelled into submission - then he smirks as he
touches a button and drops through a trap door as the room that the PCs
were fighting in turns into some kind of (escapable) death trap.
Needless to say, the nemesis will return again in some future chapter
of the Exploits of.....

11) Nemesis has unholy amount of Chi - Reserved for truly over the top
villians - like Godzilla....

Hope this helps...Just ask if you want me to give more examples of any
of them...

Escherwolf

Hey all. I"m looking for a little advice for how to handle big nemsis
fights with my PC's all in a group. I'm not sure how to keep the fight
going long enough to involve everyone... Either I give the nemsis a
HUGE amount of Chi, or I work out some way that the nemsis fights each
of the PC's at the same time with the same amount of chi... I'm really
not sure. What's folks experience with this? Ideas? Opinions?

--- In wushurpg@..., Christopher Fletcher
<gwyddion0@y...> wrote:

> Sorry for all the snippage but it helps to focus my
> suggestion... perhaps a "corruption" element, might
> actually be brought into play. Really it depends on
> the design of the game; by which I mean, what is Cyber
> Fu being written for?

It's a good question - I was trying not to set parameters too much -I
wanted to encourage members to throw in ideas and let the core
elements of CyberFu emerge from the discussion.

Here's my take on corruption - in StarWars it works great. The
universe tends to become a dichotomy between light and dark. Anybody
in the middle is being pulled towards one end or the other, so
corruption is a great measure of the fall from light to dark. My
feeling is that it might not wotrk for a Cyberfu world where most of
the characters are going to be various shades of grey.

The fixer might protect his business with absolute ruthlessness, but
might also be a protector of his neighbourhood's children. The
assassin might be a killer purely so that he can get enough money
fast enough to pay for an urgent operation to save his beloved wife.
The corporate executive might be the kindest person alive within her
enclave, but see the unwashed masses outside as something to be
feared and dealt with harshly. The revolutionary might be fighting
for the underprivileged, but have no qualms anout using terrorist
tactics to accomplish those goals. Its a dark world, and its people
are struggling to find whatever light they can within it, If that
means working for a corporation, or trying to bring it down, being a
criminal who preys on the people or a local hero trying to protect
them, or just trying to survive day to day, than so be it. Players
might be corrupt, or they might be untouchable, but either way, I
don't think that corruption is a measure that has meaning outside the
player character's own goals, beliefs and responses to circumstances.

This comes back to what I was saying about a chosen profession partly
defing what the character is about, and a stated belief perhaps
refing it further. Someone who declares that they are an assassin is
probably going to see things in a different way to a Doctor. It
implies things about them. Now give them a belief: The assassin might
believe in only killing within the context of a paid contract - never
for pleasure, and might therefor take exception to another PC killing
indiscriminately. The Doctor might be a typical noble type, or he
might believe that illegal cyberware implantation is perfectly
alright as long as it can be paid for....
>
> If it's an excuse to kill things and take their stuff
> (like Shadowrun, D&D, and so forth) then it's not very
> appropriate. On the other hand, if it is more of an
> exploration of a person's role in society and how they
> work within and outside of their society, what that
> role(or roles) looks like, and so forth... then it
> might fit.

I think to a certain extant it can be worked both ways. One of the
major factors in a cyberpunk setting is inequitable access to
resources - power, food, shelter, safety, money and all those other
things that Maslow might talk about. If you are living in the slums
with minimum wage, barely enough to eat and a leaky roof over your
head, then you might well be tempted to kill things and take their
stuff. For me that might be part of that exploration of a person's
place in society - what are you willing to do on order to survive?
How much will you value your needs over somebody else's when there
isn't enough to go round? Are you just trying to survive, or do you
want to change your place in society, orbetter yet change the nature
of the society? All good questions. It is probable that most PCs will
prefer to be pretty well set up, but even then, they have to deal
with how they react to the inequities they see.
>
> Why? Well, as I pointed out in Shadowrun, Corporations
> are hiring Shadowrunners to buck the system. Or to put
> it another way, "The Man is paying you to screw with
> The Man". That's kinda screwy logic. Sure,
> Shadowrunners might thing "This is a hoot, we're
> screwing the system and it's _paying_ us to do so",
> and the Johnson is thinking "Chuckle all you want,
> you're no more a rebel or threat against the system
> than the suit that drive to work everyday. You just
> happen to have a different office and dress code".
> Who's right? Well, if it's an important question,
> Baileywolf's corruption mechanics for the Dark Side
> might help to answer that question.

I see what you're getting at, but I still think that a straight
corruption mechanic misses the greyness of the setting. It would
possible work fine for a character who is trying to be untouchable
but not so good for someone who starts off corrupt and has no
intention of change. I really don't want to force players into
adopting a moral or ethical code that may not be suitable to their
character type or circumstance. That's why I was suggesting stating a
belief - it gives both player and GM a declaration of what matters to
that PC and therefore what kinds of stories you might tell. An
Assassin that believes children should never be killed could be faced
with a situation where taking out the target might also take out
innocent children. Such a story would be meaningless to an Assassin
that doesn't care about collateral damage.
>
> I'd argue that original cyberpunk stuff was a cool
> setting and kick ass stuff, clearly. And yet there was
> also an exploration of what it might be like to live
> in a world that took the excesses of it's time to a
> "logical" conclusion. So what's society look like when
> people do exist exclusively to satisfy their own
> greed, when they'll hire themselves out to the highest
> bidder, and when corporations are openly more powerful
> than nations.

Agreed, except that it isn't always about greed. It might just be
survival, a personal code of honour, or idealism that motivates a PC.
>
> Form follows function, and rules help reinforce play.
> Cyber gear isn't given any mechanical advantage,
> because Wushu and Cyber Fu isn't about task resolution
> and micro-managing bonuses for an unimportant/minor
> aspect of play. Groovy. What's CyberFu about?

Good question...

Escherwolf

--- John McDonald <mac3141@...> wrote:
<snip of my earlier post>

> I think this will be partially defined by what
> characters choose to be. If they choose to be a    >
gangbanger, corporate soldier, street
> samurai for hire or a besieged underfunded cop, it
> will to a large extent set them a place in the     >
world.

<snip some bits>

> Unlike BW I wasn't going to
> link any specific game mechanic to it - it's just
> there to help the player focus on the character's  >
core belief.

Sorry for all the snippage but it helps to focus my
suggestion... perhaps a "corruption" element, might
actually be brought into play. Really it depends on
the design of the game; by which I mean, what is Cyber
Fu being written for?

If it's an excuse to kill things and take their stuff
(like Shadowrun, D&D, and so forth) then it's not very
appropriate. On the other hand, if it is more of an
exploration of a person's role in society and how they
work within and outside of their society, what that
role(or roles) looks like, and so forth... then it
might fit.

Why? Well, as I pointed out in Shadowrun, Corporations
are hiring Shadowrunners to buck the system. Or to put
it another way, "The Man is paying you to screw with
The Man". That's kinda screwy logic. Sure,
Shadowrunners might thing "This is a hoot, we're
screwing the system and it's _paying_ us to do so",
and the Johnson is thinking "Chuckle all you want,
you're no more a rebel or threat against the system
than the suit that drive to work everyday. You just
happen to have a different office and dress code".
Who's right? Well, if it's an important question,
Baileywolf's corruption mechanics for the Dark Side
might help to answer that question.

I'd argue that original cyberpunk stuff was a cool
setting and kick ass stuff, clearly. And yet there was
also an exploration of what it might be like to live
in a world that took the excesses of it's time to a
"logical" conclusion. So what's society look like when
people do exist exclusively to satisfy their own
greed, when they'll hire themselves out to the highest
bidder, and when corporations are openly more powerful
than nations.

Form follows function, and rules help reinforce play.
Cyber gear isn't given any mechanical advantage,
because Wushu and Cyber Fu isn't about task resolution
and micro-managing bonuses for an unimportant/minor
aspect of play. Groovy. What's CyberFu about?



__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

--- In wushurpg@..., Christopher Fletcher
<gwyddion0@y...> wrote:
> I'd say another theme (maybe it's been explicitly
> stated, and I just missed it) is not just that there's
> been a social breakdown, but how the character(s) are
> responding to it. By which I mean, the characters are
> shown as proactively trying to make a difference. That
> difference might be to improve their lot in life, it
> might be setting an example of rebellion for others to
> be inspired by, it might be a simple and continous act
> of non-conformity. Rebellion being defined as an
> active act against some part of the "system", as
> compared to a passive act of non-conformity.
>
> One of the major themes is the rejection of the
> established order. Hence in the 80's when you have the
> look of the young cleancut corporate type intent on
> earning as much money as quick as possible, punks went
> for the loud and extreme look. They had little
> interest in money etc.
>
I think this will be partially defined by what characters choose to
be. If they choose to be a gangbanger, corporate soldier, street
samurai for hire or a besieged underfunded cop, it will to a large
extent set them a place in the world.

I'm going to suggest that we do a filch from burning wheel - on the
character sheet will be a line (optional) in which you can state a
character's belief as a single statement. Unlike BW I wasn't going to
link any specific game mechanic to it - it's just there to help the
player focus on the character's core belief. It is possible that a GM
might optionally recognise superior roleplaying of a belief with an
extra die or two at a dramatically appropriate moment, but I don't
think its necessary. It does tend to help focus on what the character
is about, and to give the GM hooks on what that character might care
about.

Possible example statements: "The innocent must be protected at all
costs"; "Killin is an artform"; "The corporations are corrupt and
must be toppled"; "Down these mean streets must walk a man who is not
himself mean" (thanks RC); "The only people who give a damn about me
are my fellow gangbangers - I must give them total loyalty"; "I'd
rather be a predator than a victim"; "I must protect my corporate
clients from the unwashed hordes".

Escherwolf